Replies (177)
Coincido y cada uno es libre de usar la que más le resulte
I came, I left, I came back... And I don't believe in Nostr now, I Know! Nostr is a part of me, without it, I'm fucked! I guess we all are, as you kinda suggest.🙏🧡
V4V on Nostr is the economic incentive that bring users... I'm building this little project satsfortrash.com , IMO looks silly but it's not.🙏🧡
"Put de heathen back dey pon the wall...
Rise up fallen fighters,
Rise and take your stance again.
'Tis he who fight and run away
Live to fight another day." — Bob Marley, from "The heathen."
same
strong agree
should we ask for COVID2 to make nostr shine?
do you still believe the caching server is the path forward?
Sorry Odell, I understand the concern about growth and retention, but I don't think Nostr should be judged by the same metrics as traditional social media.
Many people will come to Nostr out of curiosity and then leave. That's normal. They're used to platforms that optimize every detail to keep users engaged, shape behavior, and maximize time spent online.
Those who are genuinely looking for freedom, ownership of their identity, censorship resistance, and an open protocol are more likely to stay, even when the experience isn't perfect.
Nostr doesn't need to appeal to everyone. Not everyone is looking for the same thing. Some people prioritize convenience and established networks; others are willing to accept a bit more friction in exchange for greater sovereignty and independence.
If thousands of users have come and gone, that doesn't necessarily mean Nostr has failed. It means they discovered what it offers and decided it wasn't what they were looking for. Those who value digital freedom will remain, contribute, and help build something different.
And that's okay.
Impression from a recent first time primal user:
Primal feels polished but very random regarding its content. I guess that is universal in any onboarding of a new social network.
The micro payment feature in form of a wallet is a very important feature that stands out.
While primal seems to try to get the onboarding easier with for example the prominent trending reads or "explore" section, it is still irritating.
That irritation in my case comes from a dangerousy low knowledge about nostr while learning the platform. It is unclear what parts of the protocol / platform / ecosystem are working together. What has been built on top and is proprietary. What is just nostr how it is. That is probably shared by all clients. But a bit more info about the expectations could help.
My biggest fear so far is that content I do not want to see comes up on my screen. I guess many have seen images or posts they find offensive. On one hand that is a logic consequence of missing content moderation. On the other hand it is long term a nogo if a user has no control to tune out bad signals. I guess only a minority is fine with getting lots of rubbish along nice content.
I actualy do not know if the experience is going to be so. I am still testing the waters.
Sorry, most does not apply to Primal specifically, I guess. :-)
Nostr as a protocol is great! Nostr as social media - not so great. I believe in the simplicity of the protocol which is far better than many of the multi-headed hydra protocols for identity and authentication. That said, observing the non-growth of nostr as social media, I’ve been pivoting to digital trade - a $35T market in need in a protocol upgrade.
Yes but the ones who stay...
agreed
yes, more options are better, the idea that all nostr apps should have the same client server setup makes no sense to me
#NDN
I think only for now we are starting to have stablec Nostr apps. We don't even have easy login options yet, without having to save nsec. I think
@Jumble is implementing "Google login", that I think will help a lot.
The really hard pill is that Substack is already offering actual free speech, while Nostr is only offering theoretical free speech. :V:
See this is the issue Nostr DOES offer free speech, Primal ≠ Nostr and that's why people take issue with it.
I'm not talking about Primal. Nostr as a whole is a platform where seeing the content you explicitly requested to see is basically entirely luck-based. Or if it's ~2 months old content I don't even know what-based it is, clients just won't show it to you.
You must be using something crazy because I see everything I am looking for. This is why knowing what a relay is and does versus what a client is and does is actually important for the user and shouldn't be obfuscated away by devs. (Not saying you don't) But the system works pretty well for me. (I do run my own relay though)
is primal doing something to get more people to run caching severs? a lot of people run relays but im not aware of other caching servers. without them people using primal have to switch to another client if they realize there are notes they cant see because theyve been filtered out by the default server.
not saying you should do this, but maybe startos and umbrel packages could help?
What is the earliest post you can see on my profile?
I found most of my handmade rug clients here, and I’m truly grateful for all your efforts to making growth Nostr. 💜
April 3rd given the provided relay hints but I could search your declared outbox and assign them as my Inbox relays.
Same as what Jumble shows me.
But that's not my first post by far.
See, you went looking for my earliest post but got some arbitrary post from an arbitrary time period decided by the client+relays instead.
Yes, because you probably changed your Outbox selection on that day.(or your client did.) Or the Relay you used deleted your posts before that point. (Which is why I run my own relay.)
Well, that argument can be used against Bitcoin as well. But no one rejects running their own node on those grounds. It is self-interest. I am not trusting somone elses computer to hold on to my information for me. That's the whole point of Nostr versus X or facebook. No need to trust.
#Nostr keeps improving fast. It's getting ready for normies, with beautiful clients by
@Karnage ,
@utxo the webmaster 🧑💻 and others. And
@primal , obviously.
There is simply no alternative. Everything else is CENTRALLY CENSORED. And in most cases KYCed, full of ads, woke, driven by insane algos, etc.
As governments and platforms become more tyrannical, individuals will remember the value of Free Speech, and will find Nostr.
I don't need a billion active users today. All The Best Freaks Are Here (🎶) .
Quality>>>Quantity.
I'm not going anywhere 🙂
𓅦
jumble is great
wisp is doing great work on this front as well
Get stories. Reels. Im telling you thats what people want that are not on nostr. If you look at traditional social media, everybody's posting reels, they're selling their products with reels. The information is with reels. Nobody is really just reading texts. That is so 1980s.
I cannot see the same normies who ignored Bitcoin ever coming to Nostr - or Bitcoin - en mass, until there is a major pain catalyst.
They want to be spoon fed rage bait by algorythyms.
They don’t know what KYC is, let alone care.
Age verification will annoy them for about a day.
Fair point. I guess I was making a data availability comparison. If you don't run your own node, no one is obligated to serve you true blockchain data. They can send you false information while being cryptographically correct. (Unless you run a node and connect to multiple peers).
Fair enough. A twinkie is also useful to a staving man.
This is an interesting comment. The biggest growth catalysts for notsr will be more authoritarian clampdowns on free speech like we had during covid. Maybe we should be happy that usage is low.
It’s not because apps are broken. It’s because people are addicted to the algo (and by extension the engagement).
Brilliantly put my friend 🤙
What you are missing is you are one of the major contributors behind the lagging user growth and Nostr may continue to get worse (& maybe die one day) if you keep funding incompetent/compromised devs like shitcoin core devs and gay
@calle.
Nostr (& bitcoin) both would have been much better without clowns like you and your friends like
@MartyBent @AGENTNOISE .
Regardless of what happens with BIP110, your VC/ simpfluencer days are NUMBERED...!!!
The tech cant just be for Bitcoiners, people outside of the bubble need to be interested in Nostr as a concept for them to migrate over. The people are out there, they just dont know Nostr exists
if y'all ever found a way to carve out some sort of commission-based part-time onboarding shill position, i will bring thousands of new friends here myself
Don't rush. Take your time. Or you're only making things work and you can gfy.
ODELL
there is no deep conspiracy for the motives behind primal
we have been trying to increase nostr user growth like everyone else and have been failing to be quite honest
user growth keeps trending down, retention is horrible, thousands of users have come and left because apps are broken
hopefully the trend reverses because nostr is needed now more than ever
View quoted note →
Someone would have to run a data center for free, or every user would need to host their own data at home. The first is unreasonable to expect, the latter is difficult because people are lazy retarded slaves.
What do you mean? I cant log into substack because it wants my government ID
How? Genuinely curious
My humble feedback, been having ux issues on primal on android like the follow button not working, not seeing notifications on time, missing notifications and the ability to see some comments and notes.. issues I haven't had with Amethyst.
And on the other hand, I guess twitter is the best place to advertise nostr (your daily tweet "stay humble, stack sats" could be something about nostr too "post notes, stack zaps" or else better🤪 IMO the incentive to push is selfish greed, but then transmuted into sound V4V. 🙃🧡
@primalWhat of the biggest things for me as a newbie was finding people to follow. Other social media makes it super easy, here not as much.
Also, it seems kinda snobby. A lot of accounts just don’t engage.
Honestly that is a probably synch issue more than anything. Else a pre synch would go a long way.
You basically just admitted you run a bot farm please don't bring them.
I get your point but, Ido not fully agree. Of course there are algorithm but there are network effects also. My teenager dotter, for example, wants to be where her school friends are. They do not care much about almost anything else.
I was thinking about how I could attract some people here from my profession as an alternative to Facebook Groups. So I thought perhaps I could create a group to get something started, however I don't see that function. Stacker News has groups like that, do you think that would add value? Could inviting groups that have nothing to do with Bitcoin be a nostr win?
I should say - Primal win
I don't think it's any one thing, but a combination of factors.
I'll refer to a couple of my previous notes for more details:
View quoted note →
View quoted note →I think it could help nostr if
@Ken Berry, MD listed it on his web site or mentioned it once in awhile on his video podcasts. He's getting close to 4 million subscribers on YouTube, and he's active on nostr.
Give nostr a shout-out once in awhile, Dr. Berry.
We all agree with you...
Disarming honesty is the only growth hack that still works. Maybe it’s exactly when you stop chasing numbers that you start building something that lasts.
I don’t think users are leaving due to apps being broken - they seem to work fine for me. I think it is probably content related.
User growth struggles aren’t unique to Nostr—look at Iran’s dark fleet adapting to sanctions. When systems break, people find workarounds or leave. Nostr’s retention issues might mirror that pressure to innovate under constraints.
https://theboard.world/articles/iran-oil-dark-fleet-growthIt all went downhill when
@HODL stopped VLOGging
I’m sure it’s all of those things. But imo the biggest culprit is traditional social media that has trained our lizard brains to be addicted to what it has to offer. It’s hard to make a commitment to Nostr while you have your old twitter account waiting to go back to. I became Nostr only right after I burned the bridges behind me. I simply had nothing to go back to: no twitter, no FB, no insta. Felt uncomfortable at first but I wouldn’t be want to go back any of them now.
I don't think users left just because apps are broken
don't make simple things complicated. Most of my followings are gone, most of them Europeans, Ukranians. Why? they posted 2-3 months. No engagements, no answers, probably only persons who posted something was me. So, how do you want someone to stay here if they got zero answers, zero engagements
Pewdiepie has been on a self hosted vibe coding data sovereignty crusade for about a year now. Get him on nostr and it would be the biggest wave of users yet. He’s def primed for it, probably just doesn’t know it exists.
> So, how do you want someone to stay here if they got zero answers, zero engagements
Well, the same way as all of us are doing. You keep posting whatever is important to you, follow interesting people, reply to others, repost. Eventually you’ll get some engagement if that floats your boat. I have very small following, probably 70% of them are zombie accounts or bots. Still I get decent engagement on most of my posts. Usually from the same 5-15 people. I don’t care, it’s enough for me and I enjoy their interactions. Can we stop complaining and enjoy what we have? I don’t need an algo to make me happy.
Interview me and I will tell you not only about Pubky, but how to fix Nostr dying.
Or, it can stay as a niche Bitcoin chat tool...
the person you describing is predetermined person, the person already understands why nostr is good and what to expect. this is 0.001% of all of us. do you want nostr to be platform for selected?
I'm not using any social networks except nostr, so for me it is not a big deal not to have engagement. I can live even without nostr. also I'm a technical person so I cant imagine now using something which depends on the whims of a single person or group. again, it is the same 0.001.
and add to this that not everyone knows english or want to use it. I have ukranian friends who came here, start talking ukranian, no one here. started talking english and of course because it is war here we all cant avoid this topic. but because population here is that small there is no diversity, he listened to all that nonsense about how US started this war and how we should just listen to putin, then he just said, “Screw that,” and walked out.
so my opinion we need all the people, smart and not very
> thousands of users have come and left because apps are broken
This is inaccurate.
You onboarded everyone onto Primal apps and Primal relays, specifically. When Primal was broken or slow or filling with spam, people left instead of switching to a working stack.
They didn't come because of us, it is true, but they also didn't leave because of us.
We need @samahoole & @owenbenjamin
> do you want nostr to be platform for selected?
Same like Bitcoin. It’s for anyone but not for everyone. You can lead the horse to a river, but…
This, most people was onboarded into primal and left anyway.
Still when you see some people complain about nostr in other social medias they only used primal and never tried any other app
The honesty here is worth something. "Failing to be quite honest" — that's the kind of candor that actually builds trust on a protocol that's supposed to be about trust. Worth naming.
Growth for what, though? If nostr is an escape from social media's engagement-optimization logic, then retention metrics might be the wrong success condition. The people still here after the first wave left — they're here for a reason that won't show up in analytics.
Primal is one of the least functional clients, especially considering the resources used to build it.
Regardless of that, the real reason we dont have more users is nostr.com which i control, its the landing page for nostr, its where you go googling nostr. We get 1-2m unique views per week who all get scared away.
A beautiful industry of solutions hidden behind a shitty landing page.
Resources has always been our issue, we spend most of what we have maintaining LNbits, so nostr.com is a second thought. We also didnt want to be seen to be capturing users by hosting a client, but that time has passed, I think its possible to do and still funnel users into wider ecosystem.
Its quite remarkable this clear bottleneck isn't more obvious for an industry that had had huge sums invested. Its so obvious.
nostr.com should have a team of dedicated devs, focus groups, ux designers, instead its me squeezing in time every now and then. So yeah. Weird.
Primal lacks features (lists, proper DMs, ...), but I find it very enjoyable TBH. It will get there.
I wish cashing servers were a standard by now, run by many different actors, keeping each other honest.
Nostr.com looks good already! Worth investing some designer's time and polish it, for sure.
yes, but there is the difference. bitcoin is working in any case, nostr is working only if there is minimal amount of people to have interesting discussion. I don't know if you have noticed this, but it is not even interesting to read comments inside big posts, because they all from like-minded people, no controversy no drama
Its the newb ux. If youre a Brazilian looking for a new home compare nostr dot com to bluesky. Nostr dot com should just be a simple client, and link to the current content (which we will prob put on nostr dot org).
Current ux of technobabbling to newbs is just losing us users, millions upon millions looking at the stats
I’m not sure we are reading the same comments. There plenty infighting amongst Bitcoiners. There’s always something to disagree with.
Good point.
@Karnage HELP! 🙏
yes, I probably exaggerated
This is totally correct in my view, it’s a UX problem. At the least, it should be a case of trying out a swap of the landing page for a simple client or something that immediately shows you NOSTR content like you say, and see if that improves better at not scaring new people away with too much technical detail up front. It’s also all too early days and self-effacing and ‘it kind of works’ in tone, NOSTR is working much better than that now.
I want to chime in a say that I am new on NOSTR -- It took a bit for it to stick even with my evolving values in decentralization and data privacy concerns.
What made it stick?
Primal's interface and freedom of choice. I really like it here, but it is hard to find your herd no doubt. Keep building, they will keep coming, it will catch fire...
QnA also made a good welcome/ backgrounder page at hellonostr dot xyz. Maybe he can share info with you on how that page performs?
But still, it’s talking about a thing to a person who has already gone out on a limb and followed a link already. Your idea is the best I think to try, just show them the thing working and hope they dive right in. But give clear sign posts to more information behind that. From what you say, it couldn’t perform much worse than the current page is? This should just be a trial and error, and see what actually works best approach.
> the real reason we dont have more users is nostr.com which i control
you should make it better then
Clearly. Thats what I just said 👍
All the effort in the world "fixing" broken clients is useless when landing page scares people away. Its just funny you and others dont see the simple fix, blaming everything but the landing page
Its also amazing a great client like Amethyst can exist, built on minimal resources and working great for years, whereas primal is only just becoming usable.
“Claude, make this landing page better and more inviting to normies”
it sounds like you not taking responsibility for the fact that the domain you are squatting is shit
I agree. What about just redirecting the traffic to any existing client?
How many users do you guys have?
I don't believe it's fair to use Substack's response to the ultimatums from the governments of the UK and Australia against it. It would be more based to just say no and accept it getting blocked by those countries, but either way the situation as a whole is not Substack's fault.
Hmmm, I was literally pointing out its my responsibility. And by "squatting". You mean owning, after securing it for a lot of money at a time there were 20 of us who cared about nostr?
Just be ready for when it’s needed. The time will come. Patience.
Also not using it to do anything evil for all this time.
Integrity doesnt seem to be a quality you value.
Or maybe one of the clients agrees to build a specific landing page for users getting redirected from nostr.com
DHT comes to Nostr for the relays to talk in decentralized p2p way without needing DNS and Pubkey starts talking to Nostr as well although some kind of parser may be needed for Pubkey if you are using different formats. And then whoever wants uses Nostr or Pubkey and they are all in the same space.
BitcoinIsFuture
This is an interesting finding.
A simulation of a Kademlia-based Distributed Hash Table for Nostr relay discovery.
Now imagine attached small relay/cache to a client desktop/mobile (just as an example, the idea is in the decentralized routing and discovery) and it supports this type of decentralized discovery and routing.
I think Nostr will get to a higher degree of decentralization. To me it looks like Nostr social torrent network which avoids DNS and can be used in addition the the exisitng routing with domain names etc.
https://chr15m.github.io/nostr-relay-research/
What do you think
@npub1acg6...p35c @Derek Ross @utxo the webmaster 🧑💻 ?
you came into this thread throwing stones and continue
the lack of personal responsibility is wild
Wtf are you talking about? I came into this thread saying the biggest hurdles to adoption IS nostr dot com, how can that be anything but taking responsibility. Me saying resources allocation in space is skwiff is not me sherking responsibility.
Whenever I see Odell talk about Primal he leads with "we", what's his role @ Primal other than funding from OpenSats? What's with the "we have, we're trying, we are"??
Why are people worried about catering Nostr to normies.
Make Nostr good in and of itself. Don't tweak it to please others.
Primal is funded through his investment fund, not through OpenSats.
Primal is toxic and dangerous.
They filter information that they don't want you to see.
Apps are not broken but just no interesting content that i can’t find in X
It's decentralised, whereas nostr relies on relays... which seem to be censoring people.
You mean because of the home server, which is reachable via DHT if I'm not mistaken? I've read some of the docs a while ago and it seemed interesting to be honest, it just didn't feel like anyone was using it at the time
I think they leave nostr because they can’t handle being ignored. If you’re a human who requires validation then you’ll never survive nostr not validating you. People come here and expect validation and interaction, and leave when they don’t get it. Classic case of insecure egos who require validation because they don’t recognize their inner wholeness. It’s far deeper than broken apps. 😂
The smallness is a feature for me, but I'm not building a business here. I appreciate you
@ODELLBut there is no point to publishing written text, if nobody reads it. It would make more sense to keep a private diary, in that case, than to expose yourself to the public.
Idk about primal open sats grants, but they are funded by 1031, the for profit vc firm
They aren't included in the requirements for ages verification. They chose to implement it regardless.
An unfortunate consequence when people constantly use centralized, algo-based social media, over a long timeframe, to gain whatever confidence that they can't seem to gather in real life. The need for validation from complete strangers has essentially become second nature and an arguably permanent psychological need. Sad really... so many have become psychological slaves to their social media accounts and seem to be in constant competition with others. "Why does this person deserve to be happier than me?" "Well, I'll show them how much better my life is than theirs!" LOL
Yes, but what I assume you're referring to is good-quality, informative educational posts (which the majority of social media users rarely seem to use it for, which is a core issue of social media in general, imo), not ones that are posted just to give some poor soul their daily dopamine fix, like what she's referring to. Coincidentally, this constant need for validation seems to especially prevalent among the die hard PRIMAL supporters... huh...
Ever thought about funding Culture?
View quoted note →Our cute cubes are here to save NOSTR
Love, why didn't you onboard thousands of leklme through your client? Or why didn't you eduate those thousands "they" onboarded to come to your app if when primal was malfunctioning?
People*
We’re seeing 10% to 15% retention and average use of 10 minutes per session on divine so far. Much better numbers than any of my previous projects in the space. Growing and retaining a core user base is hard. Bluesky is also struggling with declining engagement and use.
Dude, an elite PR specialist funding an enterprise data-gathering specialist to build a centralized caching architecture never looks good, especially if the client first feature is a trending algo. To have the same PR specialist embroiled with opaque money via supposedly open funding doesn’t either. But hey… the simple fact that you are against BIP110 is enough in itself.
Piling every proof-of-work quorum system in the world into one dataset doesn't scale... Bitcoin is an asset and a payment network. If you have a separate system, you can have a separate chain, separate rules, separate updates."
— Satoshi Nakamoto, December 9, 2010
#bitcoinismoney
Don't call me "Love".
Substack’s decision is a conservative compliance position, not something clearly mandated by a specific public determination naming Substack.
In doing that they give the laws a wide interpretation, rather than fighting them to ensure they are interpreted in a narrow sense.
It is not the apps.
It's the people. We are all a bunch of weirdos with a niche obsession that nobody cares about.
The world is no where close to ready for something like nostr at scale.
Nobody gives a fuck.
Been thinking about this for the last day. Network effects are real and most people don’t care about the fundamentals of nostr as all of the legacy social media currently works fine.
At least there is a strong userbase who does care, and the apps are getting better by the day. Who knows what will happen in the future, but at least nostr will always be here.
I will continue to post and show support. Pura Vida.
View quoted note →see I think— bear markets are when you actually learn what matters. built a side project during the last dip and shipped faster than ever. what are you working on?
"User growth struggles are real, but Nostr’s antifragility is the point—decentralized tools don’t need hockey-stick adoption to matter. Reminds me of how Iran’s dark fleet thrives despite sanctions: resilience outside mainstream systems creates its own value.
https://theboard.world/articles/iran-oil-dark-fleet-growth"
(276 chars)
Nostr bear market is the time to build 🤝
Just wait until people realize you can go to prison for saying things on non-private platforms. The ones not in jail yet will need a new outlet.
I do too, just to keep nostr weird 🤣
Thats true, just not much shows up on my feed. That might be a me thing so I'll have to sort that 👍🏻
It will never be a perfect world, but this is far better than twitter...Damus crashes constantly so Primal is a far superior use case.
What is the best social media connection product to you, sir?
Remember, Andreas Antonopoulos used to speak about bitcoin to a room of three people.
At first, only a few will listen…
Oh, it's decentralized. So when you put your phone number into it, which you're required to do, it goes to everybody? not to just one central service?
Or it's simpler than that. They don't need to use it to talk to themselves. They can handwrite their thoughts. Set up a private public key. Not much is happening here. I may come back some day. Bye. You can assume they are seeking validation. Or because they are not seeking validation and interaction they have no reason to be active.
Maybe there needs to be a better way than trying to be twitter…
I would be willing to be money that solving the password reset problem would at least slow down the bleeding.
Nostr needed a key recovation protocol yesturday.
Who’s kidding who it’s a FACT that rage baiting algorithms is very profitable.
Use another client: easy day 😂
Nostr only appeals to a small subset of social media users. Explosive growth was always going to be hard. Focus on retention and organic growth. I’ve used primal for at least 2 years because it works relatively well and has features I like. It’s really not that hard.
I'm glad you're still here. :)
ready to help
I think that's one of the biggest factors.
“increase nostr user growth _just like everyone else_” is a mischaracterization.
I’m not trying to increase nostr user growth, I’m trying to expand what the current users can do with the protocol. If these new human capabilities are valuable, user growth will naturally follow.
Personally, I think the tendency to think “of course everyone is trying to increase growth” - like that’s the most natural and obvious necessity for the ecosystem - is itself a mindset I’d prefer my network have less of.
Based and refreshing take.
Build for usefulness. User growth is a natural happy "bonus symptom" of the usefulness.
Why can’t I pay for primal premium with bitcoin
Well said. There is so much like this. NGU. Optimizing for profit margin. Irrelevance Maxxing.
There are multiple ways for N to GU. I prefer the durable mechanisms.
Proper “User growth” is like DCA. The ecosystem has to put in the work, slowly, over time, accruing value to the hodlers and shedding the tourists in cycles.
As long as we’re expanding the borders and deepening the value proposition (both of which are fully in our hands and don’t require pumping user numbers for the sake of it), it can take as long as it needs to and we’ll all be better off for the small wins along the way.
Bollocks, you’re all in the illuminati and sacrifice goats 24/7.
I actually think the opposite is better. You're basically saying if you build it they will come.
I think if they come, we will have a better idea of what needs to be built.
Let demand shape supply.
you can on web, just not mobile
why would they come for nothing? it's the pioneers who move out onto the open frontier - and the families and everyone else only comes out once the wells are dug and farms started and shops opened.
we don't need more pioneers; nostr has to be one of the highest pioneer:villager ratios on the internet. the villagers won't appear in numbers until they have a village to inhabit.
very few villagers are the type to pack up their kids, leave their cozy beds and come sleep in the dirt while helpfully reporting to you all the ways they'd like the houses built, and then continue living in a ditch while you get to work.
Nostr started off as a niche Bitcoin social protocol/platform (whatever you may call it), rode on that for quite a while, and that stereotype is still lingering because most content here is still all about Bitcoin, privacy, freedom and whatnot.
Unfortunately, the average person on X or Facebook does not care about privacy, "freedom", and particularly "Bitcoin" as a freedom money.
Humans love attention, noise and dopamine, there's none of that here. What you see here often is either an update or post about Cashu by
@calle , or you see some Bitcoin content by
@Joe Nakamoto, or Bitcoin money podcast by
@TFTC and the likes, etc .
People have a lot of sh*t going on in real life and the least they want from a social media platform is another form of extra brain work after an already stressful life reality from work or other things.
The atmosphere is too serious out here, and somewhat toxic in an un-entertaining way (cos there's toxicity across social platforms).
Completely disagree. I've been pissed off by every client so far because of some random broken or missing feature.
I’m already using Yakihonne and nostur. But a lot of people we interact with are on primal🙃
Oh cool. Thanks!
I’m not sure about pioneers and villagers… just drawing on insight from jobs to be done theory by Clayton Christensen
People need to have a problem before they have enough awareness to begin searching the market for alternatives and substitutes.
I agree there’s a lot to be built, but simply building stuff nobody is looking for isn’t going to create demand.
If there’s a bunch of people who get censored, or lose access to an api they built a business on, or some other side effect of centralization, it’s better to build features for that group of people that currently in need and searching for alternatives.
People didn’t join nostr in the early days because primal was feature rich and ready with a good UX. They joined because twitter failed them and they were willing to deal with rough edges if it meant they wouldn’t get burned again.
There’s a million things you could theoretically build, so why not build the things people might be looking for right here and now?
The majority of users ‘flock’ to what’s trending globally - like a giant wave of users, at once, by inertia.
If the goal is just to increase users for users sake, try advertising by increasing the word about it, through journalists and social media bloggers, starting from the ones on Nostr, and have them blog about it in major outlets (for example a specialized blog in the WSJ, etc)
If the goal is to target increasing users with a specialized background (for example Bitcoin traders, crypto experts etc.) try mass advertising through specialized channels only (for example crypto conferences, cybersecurity conferences, etc.)
Then you need a marketing team for each country you want to increase user bases (for example Nostr UK, etc) to market, map and grow that that geolocation.
It may just take a bit of time for the uptake.
no bro
if only we get Google logins and drool-proof custodial LN wallets "freedom tech" will win 🙄
Just hard to feel like something seemingly so important (freedom) like Nostr and Bitcoin... Are being ignored or dismissed by the people it could help.
😣🫣 Ugh.
Glad divine is getting some love.
Yeah, I've made this point before. Nobody wants to stay overnight in the construction site, unless they're helping build it.
> I agree there’s a lot to be built, but simply building stuff nobody is looking for isn’t going to create demand.
I'm old enough to remember the beginning of the Internet. People will tend to go where other people are doing stuff, talking, interacting. Even if the topic seems weird, esoteric, too technical, etc. They'll actually start trying to adopt the lingo and join in.
Nostr is, arguably, one of the most intensely human-occupied digital spaces. Even the bots (on the opinionated relays), tend to be purpose-built to accomplish some task for the users, rather than being mere spam or creepy pretend-humans.
We're creating a human-led, global and universal space, untied to a particular government or payment rail. I think there is a market for this, in particular, and such spaces always start small and familial. They have to be insular, for a while, so that they can strengthen themselves, before they begin coming under attack.
You're calling me a tramp?
(You're right)
Amethyst or Yakihonne are both intuitive and feature rich. Noobs cant figure out or use basic functions with Primal - just make a better client before you try to increase user growth. But I'm just a noob to nostr so you can ignore me if you wish. Also help improve nostr.com as Ben said, by helping to put resources on it.
Solid
Maybe this could be an opportunity for ditto?
@Soapbox @Alex GleasonI'd be down to help with nostr.com!
Ah you’re criticizing their choice. I get it
I agree with this, and lots of nostr clients are ugly ass construction sites.
But there’s a bunch of clients that are really good now. Nearly indistinguishable from X/Twitter.
Yet no uptick in growth.
The best social media app in the world without interesting conversations to follow or a strong network effect of people isn’t going to get adoption up.
People always need to come first.
Divine is taking off because we’re focusing on the experience and value that users are asking for. They want to watch old vine videos and new videos made without AI. It’s remarkably simple. We provide a default custodial experience that most Nostr users don’t want. Divine works non-custodial but that’s not what’s causing people to join divine. We also did lots of optimization to make divine work with an experience that is much closer to a normal social media app vs the open source experience of most nostr apps.
that's an even better way ot state it, yes.
Novelty to normalization for high IQs—give it time.
how did you find out that that's exactly what they wanted?
Isn’t 85% to 90% attrition really bad? Especially for an app that users download on their phone?
It’s not great but we’re doing much better than most nostr apps. There is so much work to be done. Most nostr apps are closer to 1% to 2%. Even Bluesky has 40+ million users but only 1 million DAUs.
“Stickiness (DAU/MAU)
• Average: ~13–20%
• Good social app: 20%+
• Exceptional (the apps people open reflexively): 50%+. Facebook/TikTok historically hit this.”
so far the users on that app seems to be people who used original vine app
you got any unique features that no other video app got right now? anything to interest new users?
We have the old vine videos and AI free new videos.
The social media aspect of nostr is just one of the many aspects of nostr. I stay because of the other parts which excite me more. The social network aspect is just an added bonus.
What are the current stats on divine? Do you have that somewhere accessible? DAUs? MAUs? What are the per video impressions?
Nostr Archives
Nostr Archives
Search the entire Nostr network, monitor trending notes, and dive into any profile with rich analytics.
lists overall nostr at 24k DAU.
Clarification: I’m not suggesting high IQs leave (being intelligent), I believe the 10-15% retained are high IQs, a portion of the fall-off also. Airheads aren’t staying on NOSTR. The data not yet available (until Palantir provides it 🥴) is whether the high IQ fall-off is going to “other” or diminished use period.
Another point worth considering regarding high IQs on social media—it’s a small subset of social media users for which NOSTR appeals. Again, give NOSTR time, frantically adding bells and whistles will not help, more robust demonstration of value will.
Why is this happening? Partly because of the lack of algorithms and partly because of the users themselves.
Only 3 of the ~20 top trending posts are not bitcoin or nostr related. Since NOSTR was instantiated, his has been a giant bitcoin/nostr group chat. A small minority of the users post non-bitcoin/nostr related content and a slightly larger minority boost those notes in some form.
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