Replies (101)
#NDN
I'm not talking about Primal. Nostr as a whole is a platform where seeing the content you explicitly requested to see is basically entirely luck-based. Or if it's ~2 months old content I don't even know what-based it is, clients just won't show it to you.
You must be using something crazy because I see everything I am looking for. This is why knowing what a relay is and does versus what a client is and does is actually important for the user and shouldn't be obfuscated away by devs. (Not saying you don't) But the system works pretty well for me. (I do run my own relay though)
is primal doing something to get more people to run caching severs? a lot of people run relays but im not aware of other caching servers. without them people using primal have to switch to another client if they realize there are notes they cant see because theyve been filtered out by the default server.
not saying you should do this, but maybe startos and umbrel packages could help?
What is the earliest post you can see on my profile?
I found most of my handmade rug clients here, and I’m truly grateful for all your efforts to making growth Nostr. 💜
April 3rd given the provided relay hints but I could search your declared outbox and assign them as my Inbox relays.
Same as what Jumble shows me.
But that's not my first post by far.
See, you went looking for my earliest post but got some arbitrary post from an arbitrary time period decided by the client+relays instead.
Yes, because you probably changed your Outbox selection on that day.(or your client did.) Or the Relay you used deleted your posts before that point. (Which is why I run my own relay.)
Well, that argument can be used against Bitcoin as well. But no one rejects running their own node on those grounds. It is self-interest. I am not trusting somone elses computer to hold on to my information for me. That's the whole point of Nostr versus X or facebook. No need to trust.
#Nostr keeps improving fast. It's getting ready for normies, with beautiful clients by
@Karnage ,
@utxo the webmaster 🧑💻🍁 and others. And
@primal , obviously.
There is simply no alternative. Everything else is CENTRALLY CENSORED. And in most cases KYCed, full of ads, woke, driven by insane algos, etc.
As governments and platforms become more tyrannical, individuals will remember the value of Free Speech, and will find Nostr.
I don't need a billion active users today. All The Best Freaks Are Here (🎶) .
Quality>>>Quantity.
I'm not going anywhere 🙂
𓅦
jumble is great
wisp is doing great work on this front as well
Get stories. Reels. Im telling you thats what people want that are not on nostr. If you look at traditional social media, everybody's posting reels, they're selling their products with reels. The information is with reels. Nobody is really just reading texts. That is so 1980s.
I cannot see the same normies who ignored Bitcoin ever coming to Nostr - or Bitcoin - en mass, until there is a major pain catalyst.
They want to be spoon fed rage bait by algorythyms.
They don’t know what KYC is, let alone care.
Age verification will annoy them for about a day.
Fair point. I guess I was making a data availability comparison. If you don't run your own node, no one is obligated to serve you true blockchain data. They can send you false information while being cryptographically correct. (Unless you run a node and connect to multiple peers).
Fair enough. A twinkie is also useful to a staving man.
This is an interesting comment. The biggest growth catalysts for notsr will be more authoritarian clampdowns on free speech like we had during covid. Maybe we should be happy that usage is low.
It’s not because apps are broken. It’s because people are addicted to the algo (and by extension the engagement).
Brilliantly put my friend 🤙
What you are missing is you are one of the major contributors behind the lagging user growth and Nostr may continue to get worse (& maybe die one day) if you keep funding incompetent/compromised devs like shitcoin core devs and gay
@calle.
Nostr (& bitcoin) both would have been much better without clowns like you and your friends like
@MartyBent @N .
Regardless of what happens with BIP110, your VC/ simpfluencer days are NUMBERED...!!!
The tech cant just be for Bitcoiners, people outside of the bubble need to be interested in Nostr as a concept for them to migrate over. The people are out there, they just dont know Nostr exists
if y'all ever found a way to carve out some sort of commission-based part-time onboarding shill position, i will bring thousands of new friends here myself
.... are practically invisible!
Don't rush. Take your time. Or you're only making things work and you can gfy.
Someone would have to run a data center for free, or every user would need to host their own data at home. The first is unreasonable to expect, the latter is difficult because people are lazy retarded slaves.
What do you mean? I cant log into substack because it wants my government ID
How? Genuinely curious
These games might be something for onboarding and retention: geography quizzes and Bible trivia that award you sats. Requires a Nostr login to collect the sats and get on the leaderboard. If you don’t have one, the games can create one for you. #edutainment
https://geosats.shakespeare.wtf
#game #gamify #education
My humble feedback, been having ux issues on primal on android like the follow button not working, not seeing notifications on time, missing notifications and the ability to see some comments and notes.. issues I haven't had with Amethyst.
And on the other hand, I guess twitter is the best place to advertise nostr (your daily tweet "stay humble, stack sats" could be something about nostr too "post notes, stack zaps" or else better🤪 IMO the incentive to push is selfish greed, but then transmuted into sound V4V. 🙃🧡
@primalWhat of the biggest things for me as a newbie was finding people to follow. Other social media makes it super easy, here not as much.
Also, it seems kinda snobby. A lot of accounts just don’t engage.
Honestly that is a probably synch issue more than anything. Else a pre synch would go a long way.
You basically just admitted you run a bot farm please don't bring them.
You're trying to make the frogs not gay. <in my best and most gravel loaded Alex Jones voice> <also stares in 1970's anime space train style>.
I don't think it's any one thing, but a combination of factors.
I'll refer to a couple of my previous notes for more details:
View quoted note →
View quoted note →We all agree with you...
I’m sure it’s all of those things. But imo the biggest culprit is traditional social media that has trained our lizard brains to be addicted to what it has to offer. It’s hard to make a commitment to Nostr while you have your old twitter account waiting to go back to. I became Nostr only right after I burned the bridges behind me. I simply had nothing to go back to: no twitter, no FB, no insta. Felt uncomfortable at first but I wouldn’t be want to go back any of them now.
don't make simple things complicated. Most of my followings are gone, most of them Europeans, Ukranians. Why? they posted 2-3 months. No engagements, no answers, probably only persons who posted something was me. So, how do you want someone to stay here if they got zero answers, zero engagements
Pewdiepie has been on a self hosted vibe coding data sovereignty crusade for about a year now. Get him on nostr and it would be the biggest wave of users yet. He’s def primed for it, probably just doesn’t know it exists.
> So, how do you want someone to stay here if they got zero answers, zero engagements
Well, the same way as all of us are doing. You keep posting whatever is important to you, follow interesting people, reply to others, repost. Eventually you’ll get some engagement if that floats your boat. I have very small following, probably 70% of them are zombie accounts or bots. Still I get decent engagement on most of my posts. Usually from the same 5-15 people. I don’t care, it’s enough for me and I enjoy their interactions. Can we stop complaining and enjoy what we have? I don’t need an algo to make me happy.
the person you describing is predetermined person, the person already understands why nostr is good and what to expect. this is 0.001% of all of us. do you want nostr to be platform for selected?
I'm not using any social networks except nostr, so for me it is not a big deal not to have engagement. I can live even without nostr. also I'm a technical person so I cant imagine now using something which depends on the whims of a single person or group. again, it is the same 0.001.
and add to this that not everyone knows english or want to use it. I have ukranian friends who came here, start talking ukranian, no one here. started talking english and of course because it is war here we all cant avoid this topic. but because population here is that small there is no diversity, he listened to all that nonsense about how US started this war and how we should just listen to putin, then he just said, “Screw that,” and walked out.
so my opinion we need all the people, smart and not very
> thousands of users have come and left because apps are broken
This is inaccurate.
You onboarded everyone onto Primal apps and Primal relays, specifically. When Primal was broken or slow or filling with spam, people left instead of switching to a working stack.
They didn't come because of us, it is true, but they also didn't leave because of us.
We need @samahoole & @owenbenjamin
> do you want nostr to be platform for selected?
Same like Bitcoin. It’s for anyone but not for everyone. You can lead the horse to a river, but…
This, most people was onboarded into primal and left anyway.
Still when you see some people complain about nostr in other social medias they only used primal and never tried any other app
Primal is one of the least functional clients, especially considering the resources used to build it.
Regardless of that, the real reason we dont have more users is nostr.com which i control, its the landing page for nostr, its where you go googling nostr. We get 1-2m unique views per week who all get scared away.
A beautiful industry of solutions hidden behind a shitty landing page.
Resources has always been our issue, we spend most of what we have maintaining LNbits, so nostr.com is a second thought. We also didnt want to be seen to be capturing users by hosting a client, but that time has passed, I think its possible to do and still funnel users into wider ecosystem.
Its quite remarkable this clear bottleneck isn't more obvious for an industry that had had huge sums invested. Its so obvious.
nostr.com should have a team of dedicated devs, focus groups, ux designers, instead its me squeezing in time every now and then. So yeah. Weird.
Primal lacks features (lists, proper DMs, ...), but I find it very enjoyable TBH. It will get there.
I wish cashing servers were a standard by now, run by many different actors, keeping each other honest.
Nostr.com looks good already! Worth investing some designer's time and polish it, for sure.
yes, but there is the difference. bitcoin is working in any case, nostr is working only if there is minimal amount of people to have interesting discussion. I don't know if you have noticed this, but it is not even interesting to read comments inside big posts, because they all from like-minded people, no controversy no drama
Its the newb ux. If youre a Brazilian looking for a new home compare nostr dot com to bluesky. Nostr dot com should just be a simple client, and link to the current content (which we will prob put on nostr dot org).
Current ux of technobabbling to newbs is just losing us users, millions upon millions looking at the stats
I’m not sure we are reading the same comments. There plenty infighting amongst Bitcoiners. There’s always something to disagree with.
Good point.
@Karnage HELP! 🙏
> the real reason we dont have more users is nostr.com which i control
you should make it better then
Clearly. Thats what I just said 👍
All the effort in the world "fixing" broken clients is useless when landing page scares people away. Its just funny you and others dont see the simple fix, blaming everything but the landing page
Its also amazing a great client like Amethyst can exist, built on minimal resources and working great for years, whereas primal is only just becoming usable.
it sounds like you not taking responsibility for the fact that the domain you are squatting is shit
I agree. What about just redirecting the traffic to any existing client?
I don't believe it's fair to use Substack's response to the ultimatums from the governments of the UK and Australia against it. It would be more based to just say no and accept it getting blocked by those countries, but either way the situation as a whole is not Substack's fault.
Hmmm, I was literally pointing out its my responsibility. And by "squatting". You mean owning, after securing it for a lot of money at a time there were 20 of us who cared about nostr?
Just be ready for when it’s needed. The time will come. Patience.
Also not using it to do anything evil for all this time.
Integrity doesnt seem to be a quality you value.
Or maybe one of the clients agrees to build a specific landing page for users getting redirected from nostr.com
DHT comes to Nostr for the relays to talk in decentralized p2p way without needing DNS and Pubkey starts talking to Nostr as well although some kind of parser may be needed for Pubkey if you are using different formats. And then whoever wants uses Nostr or Pubkey and they are all in the same space.
you came into this thread throwing stones and continue
the lack of personal responsibility is wild
Wtf are you talking about? I came into this thread saying the biggest hurdles to adoption IS nostr dot com, how can that be anything but taking responsibility. Me saying resources allocation in space is skwiff is not me sherking responsibility.
Whenever I see Odell talk about Primal he leads with "we", what's his role @ Primal other than funding from OpenSats? What's with the "we have, we're trying, we are"??
Why are people worried about catering Nostr to normies.
Make Nostr good in and of itself. Don't tweak it to please others.
You mean because of the home server, which is reachable via DHT if I'm not mistaken? I've read some of the docs a while ago and it seemed interesting to be honest, it just didn't feel like anyone was using it at the time
The smallness is a feature for me, but I'm not building a business here. I appreciate you
@ODELLThey aren't included in the requirements for ages verification. They chose to implement it regardless.
An unfortunate consequence when people constantly use centralized, algo-based social media, over a long timeframe, to gain whatever confidence that they can't seem to gather in real life. The need for validation from complete strangers has essentially become second nature and an arguably permanent psychological need. Sad really... so many have become psychological slaves to their social media accounts and seem to be in constant competition with others. "Why does this person deserve to be happier than me?" "Well, I'll show them how much better my life is than theirs!" LOL
Yes, but what I assume you're referring to is good-quality, informative educational posts (which the majority of social media users rarely seem to use it for, which is a core issue of social media in general, imo), not ones that are posted just to give some poor soul their daily dopamine fix, like what she's referring to. Coincidentally, this constant need for validation seems to especially prevalent among the die hard PRIMAL supporters... huh...
Our cute cubes are here to save NOSTR
We’re seeing 10% to 15% retention and average use of 10 minutes per session on divine so far. Much better numbers than any of my previous projects in the space. Growing and retaining a core user base is hard. Bluesky is also struggling with declining engagement and use.
Substack’s decision is a conservative compliance position, not something clearly mandated by a specific public determination naming Substack.
In doing that they give the laws a wide interpretation, rather than fighting them to ensure they are interpreted in a narrow sense.
Oh, it's decentralized. So when you put your phone number into it, which you're required to do, it goes to everybody? not to just one central service?
Use another client: easy day 😂
ready to help
“increase nostr user growth _just like everyone else_” is a mischaracterization.
I’m not trying to increase nostr user growth, I’m trying to expand what the current users can do with the protocol. If these new human capabilities are valuable, user growth will naturally follow.
Personally, I think the tendency to think “of course everyone is trying to increase growth” - like that’s the most natural and obvious necessity for the ecosystem - is itself a mindset I’d prefer my network have less of.
Based and refreshing take.
Build for usefulness. User growth is a natural happy "bonus symptom" of the usefulness.
Well said. There is so much like this. NGU. Optimizing for profit margin. Irrelevance Maxxing.
There are multiple ways for N to GU. I prefer the durable mechanisms.
Proper “User growth” is like DCA. The ecosystem has to put in the work, slowly, over time, accruing value to the hodlers and shedding the tourists in cycles.
As long as we’re expanding the borders and deepening the value proposition (both of which are fully in our hands and don’t require pumping user numbers for the sake of it), it can take as long as it needs to and we’ll all be better off for the small wins along the way.
Bollocks, you’re all in the illuminati and sacrifice goats 24/7.
you can on web, just not mobile
why would they come for nothing? it's the pioneers who move out onto the open frontier - and the families and everyone else only comes out once the wells are dug and farms started and shops opened.
we don't need more pioneers; nostr has to be one of the highest pioneer:villager ratios on the internet. the villagers won't appear in numbers until they have a village to inhabit.
very few villagers are the type to pack up their kids, leave their cozy beds and come sleep in the dirt while helpfully reporting to you all the ways they'd like the houses built, and then continue living in a ditch while you get to work.
Completely disagree. I've been pissed off by every client so far because of some random broken or missing feature.
no bro
if only we get Google logins and drool-proof custodial LN wallets "freedom tech" will win 🙄
You're calling me a tramp?
(You're right)
Maybe this could be an opportunity for ditto?
@Team Soapbox @Alex GleasonI'd be down to help with nostr.com!
Ah you’re criticizing their choice. I get it
Divine is taking off because we’re focusing on the experience and value that users are asking for. They want to watch old vine videos and new videos made without AI. It’s remarkably simple. We provide a default custodial experience that most Nostr users don’t want. Divine works non-custodial but that’s not what’s causing people to join divine. We also did lots of optimization to make divine work with an experience that is much closer to a normal social media app vs the open source experience of most nostr apps.
that's an even better way ot state it, yes.
how did you find out that that's exactly what they wanted?
Isn’t 85% to 90% attrition really bad? Especially for an app that users download on their phone?
It’s not great but we’re doing much better than most nostr apps. There is so much work to be done. Most nostr apps are closer to 1% to 2%. Even Bluesky has 40+ million users but only 1 million DAUs.
“Stickiness (DAU/MAU)
• Average: ~13–20%
• Good social app: 20%+
• Exceptional (the apps people open reflexively): 50%+. Facebook/TikTok historically hit this.”
We have the old vine videos and AI free new videos.
Why is this happening? Partly because of the lack of algorithms and partly because of the users themselves.
Only 3 of the ~20 top trending posts are not bitcoin or nostr related. Since NOSTR was instantiated, his has been a giant bitcoin/nostr group chat. A small minority of the users post non-bitcoin/nostr related content and a slightly larger minority boost those notes in some form.
View quoted note →no lol but i have 100K on X
So what, get over yourself
no, i am the supreme being.
PRIIIMMOOOOOOOLLLM..
GOD HELP US.. ANOTHER RETARDED SIMP
