Replies (137)
Yeah, threads are very thin.
What do you propose to fix this?
I don´t want to see Nostr die, before it has the chance to take off.
Its a good plattform. Its X but without restrictions...
Maybe if there are some alternativ news outlets (non-Bitcoin news) joining nostr, it could attract others. Now we are just Techys and Bitcoiner.
Ah I remember what it was like being streerage, back when I had a mere 480 followers, but I have built my brand to 483 now and it is getting harder to relate.
what is streerage?
If you don't know then I am not going to tell you. Seriously... I was hoping you could tell me. 😬
well, it's not a word? at least nobody has used it before.
It is a typo, but now I have to keep it so your comment makes sense.
i figured you meant to type strange because that fit in the context
Would be interesting to know the lists of recommended users the different 'maim' clients are using. And being able to see how they have changed over time. I suspect they're the same as from 2 or 3 years ago. No interest in looking for good new users since then, and no interest in removing inactive accounts.
The reality is, Nostr is awesome, but it needs better marketing—read that, communication of value to the end user. I got hired on by NOS only to have the funding fall through at the last minute. I've laid out the pain points, and I have actionable solutions. If someone wants to get me onboard with some funding, I'm happy to help. It's what I do best. Until then... I'm just an overqualified cheerleader.
Amen to that.
Feeling lonely on Nostr? Come and follow me... You will miss those lone times really soon.
Silberengel
Nostr suffers terribly by leadership all having gigantic accounts, so that they don't know how dull and lonely and frustrating Nostr can be for the remaining 99,996% of us, down here in the steerage class.
Twitter didn't get so big by being
50 Million People Wait for Jack To Post Something
View quoted note →
Just go to
and spin up a new user. I downloaded the list, a few months ago. Was an interesting read.
if nostr is not used for social media, I can live with that.
what matters to me is things like NWC, runstr, shopstr (probably in some better form), conduit .market (if it takes off), routstr, catalax .network and many other I forgot to mention.
users don't have to know about nostr
Will have to do that when home.
I wonder when this recommended users feature was started, and if it has ever changed on that time. Not sure if there's a cache for this lol.
I *believe* most clients just lazily use the same lists too (could be wrong)
probably a good model for one's class on nostr, i guess i'm second class. maybe third. newbies are always steerage.
anyway, i came here to be with my tribe, who have been exiled from the rest of the internet. we built this ship. i'm an engineer.
How to get followers and engagement on nostr:
Make sure you post stuff jack, Derek etc want to repost.
I know it's similar on other social media, but at least there there's vast communities of 'taste makers' respected within certain fields/interests.
People who have specific/niche interests do stand out on nostr, but they tend to not last long cos there's not a community for them. People do like their posts and appreciate them but they are not getting the conversations they are actually looking for.
The yo-yo guy (I think he's gone) for example, but there have been many. Yeah he got appreciated, he stood out. (He wasn't even saying the price of bitcoin when it reached ATHs!! It's a pretty low bar lol). But he probably left for a forum or for Reddit or there's probably dozens of yo-yo people/community bubbles on twitter, or insta etc
We need the social media use case to keep the relay network up. OtherStuff all rides on relays and uncensorabilty will decline, if the number of relays goes down.
Kind 01 notes are the Nostr equivalent to hashrate. That's why they had to come first, in the spec.
This is something I am just realising having started this ALT recently. My previous npub had over 650 followers built up over a couple years and I would have fairly good engagement and decent conversations. Not always, but enough to keep me engaged, after all I'm only a pleb looking for mild levels of engagement, not some InfLuEnCooR.
But now on this new npub it feels like shouting into the void again 😂 it is possible to build up a tribe and engage with each other on nostr but it's a slogg of months to years unless you're following the nostr zeitgeist.
If we truely want to #grownostr we need to make a more concious effort to interact with each other's posts with comments likes and zaps, but most importantly by comments! Even some dumb throw away comment is better than the void 😂
I think you’re saying that discoverability is a big issue.
I don’t understand why anyone would care about Dorsey.
stella is in a funny mood today. she delisted me from theforest because, best i can surmise, she thinks i'm opposing nostr adoption. but this contradicts other positions she holds about nostr that relate to the project she spends so much time working on, which doesn't involve adoption, but winning customers for useful applications.
since being taken off that relay, i'm actually seeing an improvement in the SNR on my feed so i totally don't mind. she's done me a favor
Nostr is not a platform. No one gets excited about email. You just use it. That's what nostr will be, eventually.
You don't know that.
01 is important now in early stage, who knows what will in the future.
Take dns, everyone runs it because it's useful. We don't know what kind will have "hashrate" utility.
But my view might be skewed because this the first social media I seriously use. I was on twitter for maybe a year (and got pretty sick of that place tbh) before nostr.
Mike Monty was his name 🕯️
Leadership? There's influencers but not much in the way of leadership. That's difficult to develop.
Yeah I liked the yoyo guy. Also the banana pin person, and the inkblotart, and art in general, homesteaders, new junior developers and vibe coders, video gamers, poker players, mempool casine bettors, zbd community builders, dungeons and dragons, and even the e-thots. Many come and go. Goonies never say die.
Web of Trust at its finest 🪄
I will never shut up about how horrible Web of Trust is for user adoption.
We shouldn’t use a gun to kill cancer on a Petri dish.
probably not but i think i needed a reduction in message volume on my feed
it’s not a loss if you’ve never been in it 😎
It’s Also good not to put yourself in a position where someone can boot you, which is completely antithetical to Nostr which is supposed to be censorship resistant. Nobody should have that power: that’s the reason I’ll never join any user managed community on top of Nostr: I’d use Mastodon if I wanted that nonsense in my life.
What leadership?
Most of what I see is by libertarians with about 8.5 followers and a little bit of Theo Vin🍷, sometimes referred to as
@Ben Justman🍷It's a big list and we aren't on it. 😂
You follow 0 people?
And look at me here thinking you need to follow some people actually not to be lonely here?! 🤔 i dont know... hey thats just me... I dont think your followers and not followings will make you less lonely. 😒
None of the OtherStuff has enough users to keep the nodes up (yet).
I'm hoping to get institutional customers that only need to maintain their own node-network, but the social feed is the strongest pan-network use case. We need that use case hopping to keep Internostr exchange up, so that the Intranostr npubs can use the external nodes to hop from one Intranostr to another, smoothly and without being conspicuous, and to occasionally join the Internostr conversations.
Otherwise, you end up disjointed islands and the value proposition melts. Communication networks should be noisy and busy.
I have 30 something followers and follow 50+ I aint lonely here at all... 🤣✨️🤓🖖
being on that list is like winning a gold medal in the special olympics
When I tried to start a newspaper on nostr, no one gave a fuck, I got like 1 like and repost after multiple issues -
@npub1hms7...8888
Now I'm possibly the most muted human on nostr
Bringing high quality people into a low quality community, in a low quality population, in a slow 1-at-a-time trickle, doesn't fix anything
He had a free subscription on a paid relay.
He is free to pay to rejoin it. He complained about being on it, so I did him a favor, and he's happy to be off.
I don't understand your problem.
Nostr is a platform
And this is a good reminder that you have me muted for being too real, even though you gaslight me about it, pretending there are other reasons
*****Emotion is not ideal for business imE*****
I have some bad news for you, sir.
1) You can get booted off of any relay. You just have to try hard enough.
2) You don't have to join a community, to be on their relay. The data is all public. You are on hundreds of relays.
yeha, i'm getting literally DoS'd by some mastodon bridge right now.
i see you
i'm not bothered by not being on theforest, just to reiterate
i also appreciate the sentiment at being added and it's complimentary
i don't understand how i tripped the trigger though, but i also don't really mind because maybe this is a difference of operational strategy opinion that i'm happy to be on this "dark" side of the lit space anyway.
also, ironically, as this is all happening, my test relay is being bombarded with shit from a dozen different IP addresses that seem to be related (maybe a cloud service). which is kinda fishy.
You are late then cause none of that is news
Because I got tired of you complaining about being on it.
oh, i wasn't aware that i had complained before. but ok.
i appreciate our discussions and i generally have enjoyed reading your posts but i'm going to take a break for a while.
As an experiment I recommend all the Devs made a new account, on primal. Tick all of the interests when making it.
That's what the average person sees when they get here.
Someone needs to have a talk with the people at
@primal
They don't even have gardening as an interest when you onboard, they push the same group of limited interest people onto everyone.
And according to almost everyone primal is the best for onboarding..
Come on now this ain't right
Everyone should come follow me, then. Step off the treadmill.
Wish you both can smooth things out eventually. Sounds like it was just miscommunication.
100%
Only way to build followers on here is interaction.
i have basically zero respect for those who have been promoted to spam everyone on the big free relays, except as far as the individuals have merit, like, i don't mind jeff booth, gigi is ok (and i've vetted him IRL) but the majority of them i couldn't stand to see posting their dribble into my feed.
i don't even subscribe to lyn, though i consider her to be a solid human being, but the thing about all of them is they are like a turd covered in flies. i might like that turd, but i don't like the flies.
nah, it's just a mood. maybe i am in one as well, i do feel a lot different since having a vacation after my fiat mine pastured me defacto and then i said "ok i'm out then"
I think the principles in play here are that genuine communication is a two way street.
Follow all the people you like, get the perfect feed, but when you post something and no one sees it, no one even knows it exists, that is the hollow fiat communication.
Empty user experiences are hard to onboard with.
You complain about the idiots appearing your threads because they saw your OP on TheForest, on a regular basis.
Me. I am the idiot who saw your OP on TheForest. Those are the only OPs I see.
yeah, i figured it was something like that
no harm done, was a change that was needed i think
i have my own working relay and strangely as this all happens a lot more people are appearing and posting interesting content on it.
i think it kinda proves the value of my second degree of follow whitelist in practice. i'm not aware of any other relay that has implemented a feature like this. i think i had it sorta almost working before but the relay was bugged af but now it's working, should be good.
gonna just dig in and finish this idiomatic HTTP API right now and get on with finding a new fiat mine job. unless i get beaten to the punch and someone comes in and says "i want you to build a thing for nostr" via nostr again, like last time.
i seem to be cursed with some kind of weird, purposeful luck towards things that fulfill some mysterious agenda that i'm not fully understanding yet. i've long ago given up on being concerned about it.
You shouldn’t have called her that though, don’t you agree? 🤨
called her what?
Alright imma peace out! ✌️😬
i have great respect for her. i don't think i have ever said anything nasty about her except for one time a long time ago when i figured out i was having a crush on her.
she has different objectives in her mind for her work than i do. who she lets into her relay is not very much intersecting with who i want to see on my feed, and i had become unconsciously bothered by it. so it has been a relief to have this error corrected.
she only reinforced my good opinion of her by this, she picked up on something that i had been oblivious to, and helped me out.
It's the "olympic" part that offends me :winkwithtongue:
I like the "free market" feel of Nostr.
Like moving into a new town where nobody knows me. Laying low at first, not going on stage anywhere. Observing what's around, what needs are already covered and where there are gaps. Checking out profiles of people with comments I appreciate. Keeping the permanency in mind, gradually putting out some of my own, building trust. It would be alarming to instantly have thousands of followers!
The global feeds aren't a great place to start. The follow packs are handy, and those can grow.
#grownostr
all respect to the people whose physical handicaps limit their ability to participate and compete against able bodied people. it's just an idiomatic expression in the noosphere of culture that means that someone is already so irrelevant to the bulk of the population winning a prize is not memorable or notable.
what i mean by it is, nostr is not supposed to be about the mainstream competition for attention that is captured by the big social networks. being promoted on nostr is rude and uncouth, but the people doing it have no concept of how vulgar it is.
That’s why we need more people, to dilute the obvious accounts that end up controlling the narrative, that are pushed by most client apps or followed for the zaps. To be able to create an alternative of interests, of people, of visions for the small accounts.
Hilarious how the engagement on this post kind of refutes your whole theory.
Say things worth responding, reacting and paying for, THAT is how nostr is modelled.
Twitter has everyone extended on credit then at a moment's notice, they get throttled and banned. Just like how drug dealers sucker new customers.
I understand that.
It very well might work the other way around where the islands realize they would benefit in having notes from other islands.
e.g. you have a zapstore with it's own relays and want to talk about apps (or specific app) and that app has it's own relays where people use all kind of notes. both will benefit with publishing to each other's relays.
I like living in the sewer. Less noise down here.
t *U* all 4 thread{RE*REad}😆 if i/\/\a smiling++*/*ya
GM Rand
hey YODL, how r you friend ^_^
GM*btw
Am good. Just saw you in the wild and wanted to say hi
th@z heartfelt brother, gr8\/\/y/*****
You're doing it right
your loneliness, anger toward those with “more”, and need for recognition of your significance started long before nostr ever existed
Feel lucky to enter the party before the mainstream!
When people start to see your gigantis your leadership will begin!
damn
It is true though that when you download primal you are recommended all the accounts of the people who run primal. I’ve heard numerous people complain about this. I don’t necessarily have a problem with it it’s their client they can do what they want and I can decide who to follow etc.
Nostr is great but the reality is that most people want to be spoon fed content through an algorithm that harvests their data. IMO we are still quite early for nostr to gain significant traction outside of the ideological freedom lovers and bitcoiners.
I hope things change and I think they will as centralized social gets even shittier and Nostr improves.
Opinions are key. Up to you to see things for yourself
In my view: there is a proof-of-work required in Nostr usage. You have to go and find what you need, follow, interact, zap, and then filter what you don’t.
Challenge: spend a week doing triple the amount of zaps you’ve done befor. Then see how it feels…?
follow me
other staff
I just looked through my follow list. Interestingly, I have some of the biggest accounts all the way down to some of the smallest, with no big gaps between sets of numbers. Just observing and interacting with ones I appreciate as I go.
I thought I'd see an obvious dividing line between follow counts, but not really.
steerage class lol
yeah some days it's boring but sometimes i find super interesting stuff. on those days i zap and repost. this is the way
Everyone with a large npub is automatically a leader, since they determine what everyone else sees. They're at least gatekeepers.
Nostr fudders are back. 👆
Careful. Gonna make people upset.
What are they gonna do? Mute me even harder?
i'm cheering for my favourite nostr killdozer.
you go girl!
Trending 24 is real
I still think shouting into the void will work eventually.
Proof of work is the way to grow!
In all energy manifestations
So Nostr's strength is its weakness?
I'm new here but it seems pretty good so far.
Your signal drives your engagement.
#WTFSTR 😄
"50 Million People Wait for Jack To Post Something"
i hope we don´t have so many sheeps here
you are totally right, we need more people on nostr
#plebchain #followcahin #grownostr
Never get inbetween two frens having a spat. They'll just make up and then turn on you. 😂
Primal devs DGAF about anyone who isn't very enthusiastic about sniffing each others' farts.
"I will never shut up about how horrible WoT is."
That's my version.
Yeah, I basically mentioned a similar sentiment In a previous post about this topic, but nobody saw that post because my npub was so new 😂 it's possible to make the argument that it's a feature not a bug, and the argument I made was that it reflects the "real world" more acurately. When you arrive to a totally new place, you have no friends, it takes time and a lot of effort and interaction before you start finding the people you want to continue interacting with, nostr currently mirrors this in my opinion, and maybe it's not a bad thing, but it is frustrating to come here as a new npub 😅.
That being said I've had this new npub about a month now and I already seem to be getting fairly decent engagement (for my level).
But I do still think there is room for improved discoverability in those early days, Lord knows what though 🤷🏻♂️😅 I'm no dev.
They were paid, to come here. Not home-grown talent.
Oh I didn't know you are not into WoT. Share more?
I feel like you've grown distant since then.
No, it proves her point. She's one of the big leaders that we all follow. And she deserves to be - this isn't criticism in the least.
I like that extended credit drug dealer analogy. Very apt.
A decent enough solution **_would be_** hashtags, and new users are suggested hasgtags instead of npubs - would be, but isn't, because people abuse hashtags and then people unfollow the hashtags. I suggest limiting the number of hashtags that can be added to a note, or relayed as a relay policy - 3 tags seems like a good maximum.
That way, interest groups break off into their own silos, instead of the current psychology of an implied demand for conformity.
You get to a point where you have days with 2 maybe even 3 notifications and you just have to take a vacation from the clamor.
I once went viral and got 8 reaction emoji to a single note.
Hashtags only retain utility within a good relay.
How does a relatively less techy person know which relays are good? How do I check their differences?
Welcome to Nostr!
Look at the global feed and scroll for 15 minutes.
It’s alright.
took me 2 years to hit primal trending lol
That’s when I realised being an influencer must be absolute notifications hell 😆
Eww. I don't like the global feed. I think I can handle one level higher in the techiness department, if it means skipping global
You are whitelisted on theforest, so everyone sees you there.
I think the zapstore use case is a legit use.
I don’t think I’ve ever been pro-WoT, maybe WoT curious at times. Perhaps at the beginning when I did not understand it properly.
When you really think about the long-term effects of WoT you realize how detrimental it is to the growth of Nostr.
Until the death of WoT, or at least the current aberration that is implemented by most clients and relays, the OGs who managed to amass a big following just need to sit on their asses while the new user will struggle to get any attention. The new guy’s only hope to become relevant is if one of those OGs looks hard enough and follows them.
The OGs did not have a WoT filter to pass through early on, and had that been the case, most of them wouldn’t even be here. I probably wouldn’t be here.
WoT kills spam but it also kills the host.
Hmmm, so it appears that I don't understand it properly. Can you help me understand what happens and how is it that affecta my pretty dead engagement levels which many others seem to experience too?
Sure! People only see posts from those they follow, or from people their follows follow, it may or may not get any deeper than that.
Unless you are well-connected, this creates a bubble for yourself. If not enough people follow you, or if those that follow you don’t have many followers, then your posts stay within your little circle.
Your followers can help you by reposting your content, reacting, or replying to it, for it to be viewed by those outside your bubble but still part of theirs.
You can increase your visibility by tagging your post with popular relevant tags.
Let me know if that helps!
Cool, thanks
I'm guessing it's this "theforest.nostr1.com" thingy in the top right? I see notes... I could do a little test... Okay but wait, what does this have to do with finding good relays?
Yes, WoT is a form of nepotism, which is the _opposite_ of PoW.
Community relays actually alleviate the worst effects of WoT, tho. I think you're wrong about that.
They at least give everyone a chance to be quickly seen and prove themselves. If you get thrown out of a community, you can go someplace else, or start your own relay, and your newfound frens can follow you. There's no lag.
With WoT, nobody ever knows you came, you wallow in obscurity for quite some time, and you then leave without making a single sound that anyone heard.
Jumble is a relay explorer. You can look at the feeds of different relays. There are just safe-for-work examples preset, in that list, but you can add any relays you want to regularly look at, or combined relays into one feed.
I'm not an OG, but I arrived right before the WoT stuff started and everyone stopped looking at global, so I've had to really scrape follows together. Npub by npub.
That's why I sit in steerage, even though I regularly trend. It's a paradox that confuses everyone. Why is she always so frustrated and angry, when we all see her stuff and respond? You can see my stuff and respond because I've worked on this from sunup to sundown, every damn day, for two years.
It's been absolutely brutal and if I weren't trying to market projects and promote my frens, I would have long since thrown in the towel.
This has been way too hard. It doesn't make sense that it's such a struggle to post such popular content, but I simply missed the OG jump and am permanently screwed.
Also, I hit a complete follow-wall around 6k. Nothing I did budged that number, for nearly a year.
Sometimes went entire weeks without adding a single follower. That is completely unnatural, so I have questions.
Ooooh it makes more sense now. That was not obvious... This merits more exploration
Hi!
Hopefully.
I am excited. Just now really diving in whats possible. Love it.
So you complain about nobody reading your stuff, but Nostr is too young yet.
Then you complain and cry he´s gaslighting you when he was just clearing things up (for people still learning like myself)
And earlier today you admitted you didnt read my conversation with the Commie but "if i am a nazi i shall go back to facebook"
Guess what... Im gonna mute you too.
This crying and pissing of people is not beneficial.
Better get some people skills...
If you're a Nazi you can go back to facebook. If not, weird move to mute me
