Am I in the wrong circles here, or has engagement gone down noticeably on Nostr?
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Replies (153)
What is nostr for?
I think for communities of interest the way to go is modernized IRC (like Discord).
I prefer to engage with my family via direct communication rather than social media.
I have an ordinary profile on business social media (eg LinkedIn) under my government name.
I don't really participate in the Great Flame War but if I did (and I have in the past) it would be on TwitterX (because the algorithm feeds me targets).
So what role does that leave for nostr?
It's a free-speech platform that (for that reason) draws in people with unusual ideas. If you don't want to talk to such people, nostr is pretty dead. I think Bitcoin enthusiasm has tamped down somewhat as compared to the run up from the teens to 70ish. If that's all you were here for I can see why you'd be disappointed. For me nostr is as good or better than ever. We've got some great carnivores like Mr. Wehrman and Dr. Berry on here, we've got some permaculturists, we've got some real assholes who will say any damn thing they think is true... I'm having a great time with it.
Now I know
Was there ever engagement on nostr? For most people I'm pretty sure it's just barking into a void.
nah bro, most developers just blocked you because of your "edits crusade"
We are here #Nostr
I'll have to go back to my previous posting rate.
I'm sorry, workplace and family.
20 years from now just you and me in the CLI with all the other clients dead
I was as promised I can buy a single taco with earnings from Nostr, I've gone hungry by now.
On other platforms, bots and intelligence agencies generate most of the mindless engagement, noise in the form of substance-free reactions or talking points in support of narrative control.
lmfao😂
Is there a client I can use to search for communities?
Probably gotta figure out how to talk about things that aren't inside baseball on here.
Pretty sure hyperinflation will make them realize the goal is to have an amount of wealth, not an amount of money
Middleman can't compete with direct trade except when connected to a money printer which people blindly accept dollars from
I don't agree engagement has gone down. And in fact, I disagree so much, that I'm giving you engagement
so ironic to have so much engagement on this thread 😆
I've been on here for a while now and it comes and goes. for me it comes and goes too, I've taken huge breaks from it.
I'm on nostr everyday
I have no idea. I'm in it for the tech, not for the masses.
Do you run any objective metrics?
at some point it's obvious there has to be a fracture, if you ask me
No point in fracturing an open protocol, when you can just build on the edge and use their network.
nostr is expanding into an archaepelago.
it was always going to be like this because the global feed model requires spook and advertiser money and all kinds of fiat incentives
let's call it a rebellion then. nay, an insurrection!
People are addicted to the algorithms of other platforms. I think it's hard to maintain interest and engagement in a natural way.
😂
I’m in
Nostr doesn't suck, nostr apps suck(mostly).
P.S. Nostr's marketing sucks.
You are right. The issue is lots of superstar assholes monopolizing discourse.
By the way?/what happed to that stripper bunch from back in the other day?
getting there… we are still early.
#BUIDL IT AND THEY’LL COME
Remember twitter in 2007 or 2008? It was already there for 2 years yet everyone looked at me likei am an alien, when telling them I am on twitter...
im boarding friends recently. the more censorship and demonetization on the other networks, the more engagement on nostr.
I just realized the dude looks a bit like Selenskyj
Choose your algorithm would be amazing. If you don’t hear alternative opinions you’re just in an echo chamber.
I have more engagement here than on Twitter, it's the truth
Or people will just comply with the others networks. If people can't make money on nostr they will just go where it pay. It look like other networks will always do better remuneration than nostr because they harvest user data.
Is there a client to publish articles on Nostr?
You must be in the wrong circles.
Slowly but surely 👌
It's tough right now. Engagement definitely seems down. For me, I like things like F1 and sim racing. I've found one or two people who enjoy F1, but I haven't found anyone talking about sim racing. So, there's some light in the tunnel for me as I can have a little F1 discussion, but that's hardly enough to keep me engaged on Nostr.
Don't think the objective of the algorithms is to keep us inside an echo chamber but to create addiction. Twitter doesn't care that you are in an eco chamber or not as long as you keep scrolling. Honestly I like nostr because it doesn't feel addictive
Engagement has been on the decline for a long while. The spam last fall really hurt too.
You have to pay for Twitter engagement though 🤣
meaningless lists because they don't change
habla.news
yakihonne.com
highlighter.com
Why don't you just fuckin cry about it then?
Nah dude, you really just need me to live long enough to post more dev bounties. What actually works matters more than whatever a democratic mass of idiots think would work
This is a bit exaggerated, but if I had to find a reason it is: lack of great tools for communities.
Nostr today has only one real great UX and value prop: a Twitter replacement.
We need multiple forms of onramps not just one. Onramping new people also means solving their problems, not our imaginary ones.
Not saying communities is easy or wasn't attempted by smart devs but it's reality.
(I'm making my small contribution working with legends @Niel Liesmons and @verbiricha )
Let's keep pushing 🫂
these clowns would have helped their cause if they had been nice to people like me but they don't
so i hate them even more, because i'm not here to make things worse for the human race, i want to build systems that let us eat the whole web2
but ok, hate me anyway, because i don't kow tow to your stupid fucking cult slogans
@fiatjaf should consider Satoshing himself
NOSTR DEAD AGAIN? RIP HERE LIES NOSTR
I don't know if I agree with this "solving their problems" mentality. This is not a SaaS startup, this is a system with network effect. Without having tons of other users we cannot solve anyone's problems.
If we were to apply that approach, though, we could perhaps start with apps that are still useful even if a single user is using them alone, such as a system for writing and publishing personal articles and blogs that people would otherwise use Wordpress or something like that for -- or tools for creating annotations, highlights, web bookmarking, keeping track of things -- but these are all hard to compete because literally anyone else can offer such apps, and if they make these apps do things anything that Nostr is not good at we're screwed. One app that is doing this very well is Zapstore, actually, which is the best app for installing open-source Android apps that exist, apparently because no one else had the idea of trying to to compete against Obtainium and F-Droid or no one was as competent, so we got that.
After that we can go for things that are useful for small groups, which is the entire "communities" talk. I agree with it, but I find it very unspecified. What the hell is a community? Even after listening to hours of TGFN podcast I still have no idea. I know I have been part of things I have considered communities, but when I say some people talking about "community for sports fans" I get the impression that they have no idea of what they're talking about. Anyway, this can also work, but here we're competing against Telegram, Signal, Discord and whatnot, and again we're screwed.
I say we're screwed but I don't really believe we are, because we have one thing that none of the competitors have, which is the promise of a global decentralized social network (and a million other things that come with that). This ideal is sometimes deemphasized because "users don't care about it" and "we have to just make better software", but I don't agree with that. Competing with just software isn't enough. I'm not sure people realize, but for every many well-designed high-quality apps that are launched only very few enjoy actual success, and one way to prevent Nostr apps from being just another failure is to appeal to people who empathize with the Nostr idealistic vision, even if many parts of that vision are not in place yet (we most notably lack the "social" part since there are no users).
This is my third ride.
Internet, Bitcoin and NOSTR.
They all failed until they didn’t.
Before someone tells me "the apps have terrible UX and that's why there are no users" put your hand in your heart and tell me sincerely that you think Zapstore has worse UX than Obtainium, now go look at how many people are using and talking about Obtainium and compare that to Zapstore.
What is the reason?
Since @fiatjaf has everyone posting their ideas for what nostr needs to get out of its stall, here are 3 simple suggestions:
¶
We need a JavaScript-free self-hostable publicly-accessible Onion service frontend. I'm pretty sure Snowden basically suggested it should be top priority. Basically njump but with posting.
¶
We could use nostr-native visual design tools for making printouts, fliers, etc. with QR codes linking to npubs and posts in various nostr apps. Maybe it could be more multi-purpose than this, but I'm thinking every time a nostrich stays at a hotel with a free printer, they could be printing fliers/newsletters with their best nostr posts to leave out somewhere.
¶
We need to fix Tor on Android and get Amethyst back on F-droid. @Vitor Pamplona has talked about this
¶
All nostr clients should add P2P data integrity verification ASAP - when you interact with someone's post while they're online, your clients could automatically audit your relays by talking directly to each other client-to-client to cross-reference each other's local databases.
¶
We need to improve NIP-13 PoW support across the board to improve spam filter accuracy. People do not like inaccurate spam filters where a lot of bot posts get through and a lot of human posts don't.
¶
I think it also might be good to have a PoW "ticket" relay where an npub just generates sufficient PoW for 1 nevent and they're whitelisted for a certain number of additional nevents to be published from that npub within a certain timeframe, or maybe from that npub+network address combined.
¶
We need doggie coin and Monero tipping ASAP - I will keep working on this point myself.
¶
We need a new nevent format which doesn't use JavaScript or any English-centric code, and which is designed with P2P communication in mind, ASAP. This is another point I'm personally working way too slowly on (almost not at all).
¶
Later, if implementations based on the new js-free nevent format still don't support BitTorrent very well, we need to improve the BitTorrent integration with the js-free branch of the protocol and its implementations. Basically: nostr for indexing and storing small chunks of text, BitTorrent for storing and transferring big data.
¶
We need a tagging system for everything, not just posts, and it should be figured out alongside the nevent format and P2P network. This is why I work so slowly it's almost not at all. It's hard to make choices in one area without impacting another area. The tagging system should help the P2P network deal with manipulation at the technical level and also help the community keep track of stuff at the human level. Some tags would be human-managed, like "this npub has been helpful before." Some tags would be managed automatically, like "this npub is known to have replied before" (so even if a reply isn't in your database of posts, your tags database might still remember everyone you've talked to).
¶
We need a proper Wikipedia clone that doesn't use English-centric formatting unless it's wikitext for compatibility (fiatjaf is very tired of me saying this but it's true).
¶
A proper Wikipedia clone will end up requiring seriously advanced web of trust models once it has a bit of growth.
¶
We need systemic key backups / key rotation. At least 1 client needs to have a profile metadata field for a backup key, and a profile metadata field for a key the profile is a backup for, and NIP-03 timestamps for that metadata field. Is that good enough for people who say they don't join nostr because it has no key rotation built in, or do they need an overly complex spec that talks about derivation paths and stuff? I don't know.
¶
We need a blockchain-based DNS alternative that supports the backup keys / key rotation. I've posted a pretty good outline of a design for this, we would just need to decide collectively on formatting details and make sure to consider key rotation before finalizing the design.
¶
We need git over nostr. I do not have the skills to help with that, @Silberengel and others are trying
¶
We need something like the old @primal "my tribe" feed to come back and be more well-known this time. A feed that shows posts from all followers could bring some of the most beloved people and millions of their fans to nostr. It would be a big selling point to be able to say "come with me to nostr because I can actually fucking hear you there"
¶
We need w3.do the nostr-native DNS URL shortener, which we've already had the whole time I was typing this. There must be a cunning dev behind that.
¶
We need more people running nostr.
View quoted note →
Here is the issue. When you have a protocol where fixes need to be made. Improvements need to be done. Yet no one can agree definitively on how to proceed forward. On a platform (GitHub) run by an evil organization. Controlled by a select group of individuals (Guardians of the Nips). What you get is a clusterfuck of people going off in their own directions deciding what is important. While rarely agreeing on what to do in order to move forward gracefully.
By giving power to the people who can vote on the issues. By utilizing a combination of sats and proof that they are humans who are active within the community who pass a web of trust background. The developers will no longer stop ignoring the problems if they wish to remain in line with the protocol.
Right now as it is Nostr is like a bunch of independent kingdoms running around in different directions doing many things that they THINK are the most important. While having a loose affiliation by choosing which nips to implement, or ignore completely. Paying dev bounties does nothing but promote alliances within certain nostr kindoms that benefit certain clients. Not the protocol as a whole.
Right now I am watching Nostr fragment before my very eyes. Developers are giving up, because they have very little leadership, direction, or can collectively agree on anything that would improve the situation. Our market share is diminishing. People leave every day due to either broken clients, or lack of engagement. If we do not find a way to come together NOW as a community to improve upon our situation. Buckle down, be more professional, start working with consensus public voting out in the open. On our own git servers funded by donations. Then we are going to die a slow painful death as a protocol.
This is the hard fact of life. Adapt, or die. We are not adapting to fix problems, or innovate fast enough. We just have a bunch of people bitching on their own that Nostr is dead. Instead of manning and womaning up to patch our shit and get to work. We need to revamp this protocol and reassess our situation from the ground up. This means focus groups. Taking surveys from the community. Asking we the people what we need. Then working together to make it happen now.
I'd prefer a LinkedIn alternative. Or better.
I'm "growing" too. That's not the problem, we're all "growing". Growth numbers go up. Engagement is something different.
We're in a peacetime. There's no enemy. Without an enemy we have nothing to fight for.
Bluesky has an enemy. It's Elon Musk. Elon is a good enemy IMO, basically a super villian. But he's not our enemy in the same way.
This leaves us, a bunch of libertarian tech bros, with the challenge of creating something new. This is not the time to give up, but to refocus our efforts. Nostr Protocol is not what's holding us back, it's how we're using it.
Not for everybody. Otherwise, so many people wouldn’t be ditching their accounts.
By participating you are part of the dao. No need to formalize it.
I've been less active lately, working on stuff in real life, but I pop on and off. I just hate all the "GM" posts that have no substance that are always trending. I don't want to say good morning to thousands of people and have them say good morning back. Just a waste of time. I want interesting thoughts, news, and opinions and those are buried and lost under the good morning posts.
You're worried about nostr fragmenting. I am too.
A big worry of mine is a JavaScript-based P2P nostr taking off before a JavaScript-free nostr takes off. That could lead to fragmentation that's really hard to fix.
We can split paths without fragmenting so badly if the path splits like this -
1. The web-compatibility-focused, semi-centralized JavaScript-and-relay-server-based branch
2. The pure-decentralization-focused, P2P JavaScript-free branch
These 2 branches can just talk to each other, translate nostr:nevents between each other's formats, and be useful enough at different times to be worth the tradeoff, without it becoming too much of a clusterheck to patch it all together and keep clients and users "near" other clients and users.
👌 The easy way is almost never the right way.
I forgot to say geographically neutral. The P2P JavaScript-free geographically neutral branch vs the English-centric-web-compatibility-focused branch
But aren't you a leftist tech bro?
I'm vegan Genghis Khan trying to become a vegan Steve Jobs 😂
I am not sure we are at the forking point. Although we are getting pretty damn close.
If we can't figure out a way to come together and rally the Nostr ostriches to agree on a solution. Then yes. We are going to get some forks from the ever growing number of frustrated developers. Who are quite frankly from what I have been hearing so frustrated from the broken state of things and half assed coding. That they want to claw their own eyes out (their words not mine).
This is a problem. A VERY BIG FUCKING PROBLEM. Developers should be excited, hopeful, and are enjoying the process of innovation. Not being hindered by a lack of focus, consensus, half assed vibe coding, lack of proper testing, and overall positive direction as a protocol.
One other thing: when there's no greater common enemy, people tend to fight amongst themselves.
Did you see my "3 simple suggestions" post on my profile just now? You might appreciate it
I am much more optimistic on nostr the protocol versus nostr the network. Though crucial for my projects, I am trying to make the protocol disappear.
Some of these were good suggestions. At that point this would be its own entirely different fork in the road, or something else entirely.
But that was also a lot more than 3 lol.
I suck at counting 💯
True. You’re right. Maybe try to increase your own engagement with others to see whether engagement increases in your community? Just throwing in ideas to make this place even better 💜. Works for me. Might work for you I don’t know 🤷♂️
Where else can you learn circular economy?🍺
circular economy Düsseldorf style 🍺
Am Mittwoch 26.03.2025 19:00 ist wieder Stammtisch. Wir sprechen dort über Kreislaufwirtschaft, Bitcoin, #Nostr und weitere Themen mit gutem Vibe und Zukunftsaussichten.
Brauerei Ausschank am Zoo, Graf-Recke-Straße 103
40239 Düsseldorf
https://portal.einundzwanzig.space/de/meetup/meetup-events/l/2150?l=de
#Bitcoin #Meetup
View quoted note →
Am Mittwoch 26.03.2025 19:00 ist wieder Stammtisch. Wir sprechen dort über Kreislaufwirtschaft, Bitcoin, #Nostr und weitere Themen mit gutem Vibe und Zukunftsaussichten.
Brauerei Ausschank am Zoo, Graf-Recke-Straße 103
40239 Düsseldorf
https://portal.einundzwanzig.space/de/meetup/meetup-events/l/2150?l=de
#Bitcoin #Meetup
In Düsseldorf?
This one thread has more engagement than most Nostr posts I will come across this year haha.
I find engagement to be about the same, but I don't think the growth is there. Maybe this is just a niche thing and we have to accept it.
I unintentionally stirred up a hornet's nest.
And that is why they’ll fail
open protocols are dark forests
In a purely peer-to-peer network of disconnected graphs, each consisting of multiple isolated components, you don't - can't - know who else is out there. There's a **Dark Forest** element that ignites a sort of primal intensity which you can choose to funnel into creativity and innovation.
Said another way: p2p disconnected graphs are fucking metal.
View quoted note →
Well said!
of course, nostr isn't (yet) peer to peer. but the concept still applies
No, I get really good engagement
Just like reading comprehension
🚨 FORT NAKAMOTO BROADCAST: FALSE ALARM DETECTED 🚨
📉 ENGAGEMENT DIP? OR JUST A FILTER UPGRADE?
What you’re seeing isn’t death—it’s the bear market version of spring cleaning.
The tourists are gone. The bots are zapped. The algorithmic crack is out of the bloodstream.
🏰 FORT NAKAMOTO OFFICIAL VERDICT:
Nostr isn’t dying—it’s refining.
This is what building looks like before the crowd shows up again.
Quiet? Yes.
Dead? Only if your definition of life requires dopamine hits per minute.
💡 PRO TIP:
If you want high engagement, post fiat memes on TikTok.
If you want a resilient future, keep building here.
The signal remains. The noise just rage-quit.
#FortNakamoto #NostrLives #BearMarketBuilders #DecentralizedOrBust #ZapTheNoise
⚡️ Zap Failed ⚡️
Check your wallet setup or channel connection—looks like fiat vibes are interfering.
perhaps not engagement but potential posts to engage with
what’s up nostriches, give me a follow if you are a bitcoiner, looking for plebs to hang with on here
If the goal were to build something popular, then it needs retooling. If the goal were to build permissionless social media, then it’s a success.
Appealing to people who empathize with the nostr idealistic vision (or appreciate it as a system with network effect) means getting stuck in the early adopter phase forever. You can't expect growth from there.
Nostr means nothing without applications built on it, and people use applications when they find them useful, it solves a problem for them. It's only apps that bring people. I give a lot of credit to SaaS platforms that grow because they solve a problem, though they might be fixing some inherently fiat problem and/or creating new ones along the way.
If 0.01% of the population cares about censorship resistance, that is the adoption ceiling.
As for communities, I mean a forum. The most basic community building block. To give an example of problems; you can't view reddit content when signed out or with a VPN. X is also limited. Discord same. Creating accounts is a pain many people agree on. Nostr can help fix that.
Nostr has a lot more interesting value props than censorship resistance that applications can leverage to alleviate people's actual, real problems. Applications should focus on those.
Re: Zapstore, thank you for your words! Appreciate it and I promise you it will get so much better still.
We need to embrace B2B. In a B2B context many of Nostr's shortcomings become irrelevant and many of Nostr's strong points become super strong. I get that Nostr wasn't created with B2B in mind, but boy oh boy could it ever scale that way.
How would I do that by just not ever getting involved with the DAO? I find them generally annoying and not particularly useful as a form of governance, and also nostr is a protocol and doesn't need governance.
How does evaluating any aspect of social media outside of the context of overall usage make sense?
Feel free to try again. Put a little more thought and effort into it. Instead of just posting muh feelings...
It makes sense when you value something other than broad appeal.
Niche appeal is usually not financially self-sustaining. So often times the only alternative to at least *reasonably broad appeal* is collapse and disappearance.
Still need to set it up. Thanks
When I talk about the idealistic vision I'm not talking about just censorship resistance.
In fact I wasn't even considering censorship-resistance at all, because I was talking about things that could be used without a huge network-effect, and censorship-resistance is only meaningful with a big network-effect. It was more the openness and interoperability and all the modular parts being combined as well as the identity system and so on.
If you consider that as the idealistic vision I'd say we don't have even 0.001% of all the people that should be very interested in it. So I don't see you can think this is limiting Nostr's growth, this is like thinking that the Wall of China is preventing you from ever leaving your bedroom to go to the bathroom.
Give an example.
Very true. I guess the better question is why people don’t value permissionless media? Maybe our society isn’t as oppressive as some would have us believe. Maybe nostr is an idea whose time hasn’t quite come. Who knows?
I'm in the B2B business. But how do relays fit in there?
No. 😁
"I say we're screwed but I don't really believe we are"
Well good, I'm glad we've moved on from that!
"because we have one thing that none of the competitors have, which is the promise of a global decentralized social network (and a million other things that come with that)"
And we have built-in monetization along with that decentralization. Which is huge. Arguably all of the social and geopolitical ills of modern social media came out of centralized and inherently exploitative monetization models.
With Lightning network integration Nostr is, uniquely even among Mastodon and Bluesky, beyond that model.
Ok, I see, and agree with openness and interoperability. What i'm saying is we need applications to translate those attributes into benefits users perceive and relate to.
Without this basic marketing skill it will be very difficult to grow.
Why not both, all the apps..
I'm guessing more ppl are likely to try a new dating app though.
That's how it went down w/PvtPpr.
Built in 2018, made automated in 2020 and by 2023 most people moved on to the next thing that does similar but the same.
Also I found out the hard way, most people use socials to outreach not communicate directly. Normally the longterm peeps will be somewhere for communication and its hard to move them once they have a foothole somewhere.
Sure thing. For example cross-company social. I'm Company A, I want to have a "shared social space" with Company B. I want this space to be Twitter-like but I want it to feel as neutral as the email relationship I have with Company B. So no "owner". Nostr provides a unique architectural foundation for that.
Many companies work closely with other companies. Retailers and suppliers joined at the hip. Startups and overseas outsource dev teams. The list goes on. You get the idea.
Cross-company social is hard right now—hence it's all mostly still email. Sure you can set up Slack Connect and whatnot, but that's relying on both companies using Slack—and that's also empowering Slack itself—and regardless one company in the mix will always "own" the channel, and that's not fair.
With Nostr, you can set up a cross-company Kind1 social space just like good-old email. Excuse the took-two-minutes fig-jam screenshot here and use your imagination to expand it to multiple companies interacting with multiple other companies in a very nostr-like web. (Or potentially siloed-off departments of the same parent company interacting with each other.)
The Nostr relay system comes into play because every company needs to maintain its own relay(s), and there can be separate relays for different departments (marketing, IT, sales, etc.), all duplicated on either side of the fence. It's almost like Nostr was accidentally made for this.
Key-paris are great because many front-line workers (drivers, security, etc.) don't have SSO pathways. An employee exposed their nsec? Who cares, have the IT person pop a new nsec into that person's Google Workspace profile custom field and the NIP-05 list plus relay filters will update—these are all gated relays, the relay is king, the whole eternally-vexing key management thing is suddenly a non-issue. Non-relay-whitelisted keys become useless.
And the whole "can't delete", "can't edit" thing? Again, it becomes a non issue. When you send an email to Company B can you delete or edit it? No. You can ask them nicely, that's all. Companies just have to educate employees to view cross-company social posts like emails, and that's not hard for employees to understand. This whole thing is just fancy email after all (but still very much needed).
And the whole spam thing? There's no spam. These relays are not open to the wide world.
And the whole "I can't find my community" issue? The community is already there, included in the box, like a phone charger.
PLUS this is all pure Kind1 stuff. Companies chatting with each other across bespoke implementations of Kind1 clients. The dev work on those has mostly been done, the client and relay code is there and open source and MIT and all. What's needed (and what my team is focussed on, perhaps other teams too) is old-fashioned B2B sales and systems-integration support, like Red Hat in the early days, take all the Linux stuff that's out there and support companies to integrate it, help IT teams tweak it, own it, run it (and in doing so eventually become a key contributor to the codebase yourself).
This cross-company market alone is massive. Really massive. Onboard a pair of companies with 1k employees each and that's already an incremental bump in global Nostr usage (albeit one that would be off the nostr.band radar).
And this cross-company Kind1 social is just one example. Many other examples.
Again I get that Nostr wasn't invented for B2B but boy oh boy could the business world ever come to love it.
The Nostr relay system comes into play because every company needs to maintain its own relay(s), and there can be separate relays for different departments (marketing, IT, sales, etc.), all duplicated on either side of the fence. It's almost like Nostr was accidentally made for this.
Key-paris are great because many front-line workers (drivers, security, etc.) don't have SSO pathways. An employee exposed their nsec? Who cares, have the IT person pop a new nsec into that person's Google Workspace profile custom field and the NIP-05 list plus relay filters will update—these are all gated relays, the relay is king, the whole eternally-vexing key management thing is suddenly a non-issue. Non-relay-whitelisted keys become useless.
And the whole "can't delete", "can't edit" thing? Again, it becomes a non issue. When you send an email to Company B can you delete or edit it? No. You can ask them nicely, that's all. Companies just have to educate employees to view cross-company social posts like emails, and that's not hard for employees to understand. This whole thing is just fancy email after all (but still very much needed).
And the whole spam thing? There's no spam. These relays are not open to the wide world.
And the whole "I can't find my community" issue? The community is already there, included in the box, like a phone charger.
PLUS this is all pure Kind1 stuff. Companies chatting with each other across bespoke implementations of Kind1 clients. The dev work on those has mostly been done, the client and relay code is there and open source and MIT and all. What's needed (and what my team is focussed on, perhaps other teams too) is old-fashioned B2B sales and systems-integration support, like Red Hat in the early days, take all the Linux stuff that's out there and support companies to integrate it, help IT teams tweak it, own it, run it (and in doing so eventually become a key contributor to the codebase yourself).
This cross-company market alone is massive. Really massive. Onboard a pair of companies with 1k employees each and that's already an incremental bump in global Nostr usage (albeit one that would be off the nostr.band radar).
And this cross-company Kind1 social is just one example. Many other examples.
Again I get that Nostr wasn't invented for B2B but boy oh boy could the business world ever come to love it.
This is an excellent playground for autistic people like me! 🤩 😂 Thank you so much – I’m having a great time here, and I’ll always be grateful for it! 😎
I have no patience. Just tell us. What is it?
We don’t know yet. My bet it will be instant micropayments combined with secure medical data.
Medical data? That sounds like horror.
In other people’s system, yes.
INTJ?
What's the opposite of 'Stein's Law' called?
Herbert Stein - Wikipedia
Indeed. The United Nostr Security Council, that'll go well.
Websockets will always be a thing.
Thank you, that is a very good description of a real-world use case, and related to what @jb55 has spoken many times about in the past if I'm not mistaken.
The thing is that it is not actually a plan. You argument against Slack Connect was that "companies have to be using Slack already", but what about this one? Companies have to be using Nostr already.
Anyway, I like the vision because it matches my vision too, of niche and community relays, interoperability accross apps and I also agree with how you see the role of relays, deletions, spam and data ownership on Nostr, your view is basically the same as mine, and to me these points are all very obvious and easy.
Another counterpoint to your thesis is that everything you're saying about relays could easily be applied to "non-company" communities too, so why not do it now?
Gpg in the 90s. Great tech. Nobody cared. I still send emails in plaintext.
We always make that mistake. Building tech without people.
Possibly related, but my social media usage has plummeted since making nostr my main driver.
It took bitcoin over a decade. Relax
I think we've hit what Seth Godin calls "The Dip"
Nostr may never be a replacement for Twitter/X, but it is amazing, and opens up a whole world of possibilities.
I see it as the social / identity / marketplace layer for Bitcoin... and a decentralised communications layer for other apps.
The work on Cashu is a testament to this... Nutzaps, P2PK locking of tokens to npubs show how Nostr can enable decentralized payments.
I can send you sats locked to your identity without you even having a lightning address in your Nostr profile.
We are barely scratching the surface of what Nostr's use cases.
Nostr is the first legitimate social media protocol we've ever had.
If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
Wait, really? I was looking forward to you explaining it to me.
OK here goes: Disconnect from all social media, TV, news, etc. Go outside into nature, touch trees, forests, ocean, etc. Spend a good deal of time with nature. At least a week or two, preferably alone. Dopamine detox, rhythm entrainment with nature.
I assure you after you come back, you may feel a bit overwhelmed with nostr engagement.
This notes was on my global feed as trending notes in the past 24Hours.
I dunno. Timeline is very short on my account. Enjoying my time here. Thanks for the zaps!
It's been like this for a while, I suspect Mr jaf is right I think it's slowly dawning that no one is coming.... To use another microblogging app.
But nostr-as-microblogging has always been the dev chatroom (for the foreseeable future at least).
#alexandria is the most interesting nostr project by far
Until someone finally makes messageboard client ;)
Oh and square avatars
Nobody could explain Alexandria to me in 1-2 sentences. Can you?
That's what adds a layer of mystery to it.
It's like a library, so it must be explained on hushed tones (I'm not the right person to answer this).
It's like a ebookverse. That's my read of it anyway, as vague as that is.
It made for some good scrolling though, worth it!
> Companies have to be using Nostr already.
It's old fashioned B2B sales. You find a company that works closely with another company and is open to a pitch, you pitch them together, sell them on your Red Hat implementation of Nostr, and you sit with both IT departments, and you implement it. Maybe you start with pairs of companies already using Slack Connect and you sell them on this as a better and more cost effective option. One by one. Stacking bricks.
> Everything you're saying about relays could easily be applied to "non-company" communities too
Sure, but if it's companies then you (as the systems integrator) can build a decent business yourself, become profitable. Your B2B customers will need you to maintain these implementations, build custom tooling around them. And all the infra is also paid for by the company, so all these questions of "who's gonna pay for the relay?" are moot.
Again similar to Red Hat. At the start they offered boxed versions of Red Hat Linux that could be purchased by anyone. That was their business model. They had some sales, mainly to nerds and enthusiasts, but not many. Then they realised B2B was where the real Linux market was. Not that they had anything against the nerd-and-enthusiast market, Linux is great and everyone can use Linux—just that they wanted to grow faster and this was how.
> to me these points are all very obvious and easy.
What I like about this B2B context is that you don't have to go round in circles with people before they finally agree (if they finally agree) that these points are all very obvious and easy. It's all much more black and white.
you can literally post, get zapped in the same minute, and go buy food. this is quite superior. once people get that, its over for nostalgic social media.
it feels very stale at the moment.
I don't really like to put things into boxes, but yeah, kind of. 😅 😎
The engagement is absolutely stale and finding quality content is difficult. I absolutely am not exempt from the “GM” bullshit but I should start taking this app more seriously. People who say you just need to manually curate a feed are missing the point of why people use SM.
This work only if the viewers are able to pay. If they are only kids, they will never zaps you and you will never be able to live.
very unlikely boss.
Nostr isn’t dead. It’s just that RLE stole our engagement, and #Nostr refuses to beg for it. Proof-of-low-time-preference isn’t for everyone.
GM
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Am I one of the F1 people?
I share the sentiment. Nostr isn’t necessarily excellent for mere lurking on the feed. However, if you initiate and engage you will find so much more terrific interactions here than anywhere else. At least that is my experience.
War is being waged silently by the censors on those dare exhibit wrongspeak.
Those affected by the depersoning war are out there, and are knowingly or unknowingly waiting for a hand to get on the freedom tech boat.
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I meant to quote this:
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How does that change in the meantime?
The concept of nsec/npub itself is liberating, sure other id schemes have existed (pgp, ssh keys, user/password) but they all fail in various ways (too technical, not portable, not fully developed idea, rely on memory).
I GET nsec/npub in a way that I never really understood ssh keys or pgp for some reason even though they are very similar there are also other protocols that are similar but you never hear of them....
I can also see govts picking up the idea, as much as it is a terrifying thought, but a real world id tied to nsec/npub like id that is tied to your drivers license, building permits, etc could help with the govt burocracy while keeping that data more private.