I feel the same. I think we've all finally realized Nostr sucks and no one is coming, really. We built all this giant piece of something that turns out no one really understands or cares, not even most Nostr developers.

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Are you being serious or just sarcastic? I was actually talking more about user interaction. New sign-ups and published notes/events seem pretty normal numbers-wise.
This meme feels appropriate. image Adoption will happen slowly, then all at once. We're still early, and you were earlier than the rest of us @fiatjaf 🤣
Mutiny Brewing's avatar
Mutiny Brewing 9 months ago
Wrote this song to remember why we are here. Take heart 🫂 Key To Life I got something they can't take away A little piece of truth I make each day They try to shut me down, but here's the thing I found a way to make my freedom ring No gatekeepers gonna hold me back Got my own path laid down on this track When I sign my name, it's mine to claim Can't deny what's real, can't play that game I got the key that sets me free (sets me free!) No one controls what I can be (what I can be!) Send it out for all to see My truth is mine, authentically (Authentically, authentically!) Every message that I write is sealed tight My friends know it's me, and that's alright Post it here, post it there, anywhere System tries to block me? I don't care 'Cause I found a better way to play No permission needed anyway My voice is mine, can't be denied Got mathematical proof on my side When I sign my name, it's mine to claim Can't deny what's real, can't play that game I got the key that sets me free (sets me free!) No one controls what I can be (what I can be!) Send it out for all to see My truth is mine, authentically (Authentically, authentically!) They built their walls to keep us in line But we've got tools that work just fine No central point to break or bend This system's ours from end to end! Every bit of data that I share Gets my signature – yeah, I declare This is mine, and you can verify Independent proof you can't deny The future's here, and we're the key To keeping information flowing free I got the key that sets me free (sets me free!) No one controls what I can be (what I can be!) Send it out for all to see My truth is mine, authentically (Authentically, authentically!) My truth is mine... Authentically... #tuestr #music
It's never too late to adjust trajectory.
fiatjaf's avatar fiatjaf
I feel the same. I think we've all finally realized Nostr sucks and no one is coming, really. We built all this giant piece of something that turns out no one really understands or cares, not even most Nostr developers.
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Fractal Bitcoin's avatar
Fractal Bitcoin 9 months ago
I feel ya. I said something like this recently and everyone ignored me. And probably hated me for saying it. But we will crack on and fight the good fight regardless 🙏
Personally, of all the alternative social media's it's the one I've stayed on the longest. It really depends on what theory you believe in. If there's one, or a small array of social media's that are the public discourse, or if the internet will scatter into seperate forums. In the first case, Nostr will have to compete drastically hard against entities that have been around for 10 to 20+ years with billions of dollars. In the second case, Nostr has already won its stake, its just time for The Bitcoiners of Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, etc. to bring their people here. Realistically, it's up to the clients to make the experience of the protocol smooth, and we will have to create clients that reinvent the wheel, there will be Gay clients, Religious clients, Black Clients, White Supremacist Clients, etc. But again just depends on the theory of Nostr / Social Media.
What is nostr for? I think for communities of interest the way to go is modernized IRC (like Discord). I prefer to engage with my family via direct communication rather than social media. I have an ordinary profile on business social media (eg LinkedIn) under my government name. I don't really participate in the Great Flame War but if I did (and I have in the past) it would be on TwitterX (because the algorithm feeds me targets). So what role does that leave for nostr? It's a free-speech platform that (for that reason) draws in people with unusual ideas. If you don't want to talk to such people, nostr is pretty dead. I think Bitcoin enthusiasm has tamped down somewhat as compared to the run up from the teens to 70ish. If that's all you were here for I can see why you'd be disappointed. For me nostr is as good or better than ever. We've got some great carnivores like Mr. Wehrman and Dr. Berry on here, we've got some permaculturists, we've got some real assholes who will say any damn thing they think is true... I'm having a great time with it.
Engagement is down. Nostr feels a bit like an under 6s soccer game. All the activity is entered near the ball and if you don't constantly move with it you miss out on the action. It takes a lot of effort to keep connecting with people who are active and making sure your relays are still up. I think communities could solve a lot of this problem, by creating places that are active even if the people engaging change. It's something to keep turning up for, which in turn keeps the connections that are made active.
I was as promised I can buy a single taco with earnings from Nostr, I've gone hungry by now.
The influencers will stay on centralized platforms because that's easier and is easy money. Censorship will be the only reason for them to seek alternatives like nostr. But they're not going to leave their mountains of subscribers behind unless they're forced to
I wouldn’t give up on trying for something with some kind of freedom/sovereignty in this era…I think it is hard to “make it” on Nostr for creators/creatives etc but it’s good to develop alongside other things perhaps right now. Even if I still don’t know a damned thing about coding, at least the option for a bit more freedom is there if you make some effort to know… I don’t think it’s about “competing” but just having significantly useful choices. People have to feel the need for more “freedom” from the norm and I feel it may come eventually
> We built all this giant piece of something No we didn't. Nostr is about 5% done. Only autists can use a shell construction for living. The normies will come when we start bringing in the furniture.
?'s avatar
? 9 months ago
bitcoin maximalists and free speech (as a [far|alt]right trick) are a huge nostr's problem, people need true freedom (even if it's an illusion) not an anarcho libertarian tool. The problem is not nostr, but its (original) contents; nostr seems the symptom, not the cure. Anyway... I love nostr
Satking's avatar
Satking 9 months ago
It’s slowly unfolding , Rome was not built in a day
Luna Tick's avatar
Luna Tick 9 months ago
You are right. The issue is lots of superstar assholes monopolizing discourse.
Luna Tick's avatar
Luna Tick 9 months ago
By the way?/what happed to that stripper bunch from back in the other day?
Remember twitter in 2007 or 2008? It was already there for 2 years yet everyone looked at me likei am an alien, when telling them I am on twitter...
db's avatar
db 9 months ago
im boarding friends recently. the more censorship and demonetization on the other networks, the more engagement on nostr.
I really do giggle at this. Clueless. Clueless, I tell ya!
fiatjaf's avatar fiatjaf
I feel the same. I think we've all finally realized Nostr sucks and no one is coming, really. We built all this giant piece of something that turns out no one really understands or cares, not even most Nostr developers.
View quoted note →
Or people will just comply with the others networks. If people can't make money on nostr they will just go where it pay. It look like other networks will always do better remuneration than nostr because they harvest user data.
Satking's avatar
Satking 9 months ago
Okay please send me your sats , and leave nostr
It turns out that being bullish isn't enough. High quality apps are needed for user adoption.
fiatjaf's avatar fiatjaf
I feel the same. I think we've all finally realized Nostr sucks and no one is coming, really. We built all this giant piece of something that turns out no one really understands or cares, not even most Nostr developers.
View quoted note →
Albert Frei's avatar
Albert Frei 9 months ago
I recently switched from X to Nostr and so far I’m enjoying it. Keep up the great work, we need a censorship resistant social media protocol!
Code Once, Profit Forever: The Developer’s Guide to Lazy Wealth 1. Rebrand Existing Ideas – Take an old open-source project, slap a new UI on it, and call it “AI-powered.” 2. Subscription Everything – Even if it’s a to-do list app, make it $9.99/month. People love commitment. 3. Dark Mode Premium – Basic users get blinding white. Want dark mode? That’s $4.99. 4. Bug-Driven Growth – Release a free version full of “unintentional” bugs. The paid version magically fixes them. 5. AI-ify It – Even if it doesn’t use AI, just add a chatbot that repeats “I’m still learning” and call it “Next-Gen AI.” 6. NFT Your Error Messages – “404 Page Not Found” but make it collectible. 7. Launch on Product Hunt, Then Ghost – Just enough hype for VC interest, then disappear to the Bahamas. There you go—fortune awaits! Now go forth and monetize. It has it porpouse. Patience 🙂
TheLegendaryMan's avatar
TheLegendaryMan 9 months ago
Pretty sure nostr does not suck. Just no one can agree on how to fix what is broken and make it better. That is why we need to become a DAO with community consensus voting. So instead of waiting for the guardians of the nips to decide on something from their tiny throwns of power. We the people can vote on what is really important and implement features that are truly needed.
The cross platform idea is the 10x improvement. Fountain plus Noster for example. Problem is finding and understanding new apps that provide this. My biggest concern is trust but verify. Is there something schistery with a download offered on the feed?
This is a bit exaggerated, but if I had to find a reason it is: lack of great tools for communities. Nostr today has only one real great UX and value prop: a Twitter replacement. We need multiple forms of onramps not just one. Onramping new people also means solving their problems, not our imaginary ones. Not saying communities is easy or wasn't attempted by smart devs but it's reality. (I'm making my small contribution working with legends @Niel Liesmons and @verbiricha ) Let's keep pushing 🫂
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Austin 9 months ago
Who would you like to be here that is not?
image
fiatjaf's avatar fiatjaf
I feel the same. I think we've all finally realized Nostr sucks and no one is coming, really. We built all this giant piece of something that turns out no one really understands or cares, not even most Nostr developers.
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🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit's avatar 🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit
Since @fiatjaf has everyone posting their ideas for what nostr needs to get out of its stall, here are 3 simple suggestions: ¶ We need a JavaScript-free self-hostable publicly-accessible Onion service frontend. I'm pretty sure Snowden basically suggested it should be top priority. Basically njump but with posting. ¶ We could use nostr-native visual design tools for making printouts, fliers, etc. with QR codes linking to npubs and posts in various nostr apps. Maybe it could be more multi-purpose than this, but I'm thinking every time a nostrich stays at a hotel with a free printer, they could be printing fliers/newsletters with their best nostr posts to leave out somewhere. ¶ We need to fix Tor on Android and get Amethyst back on F-droid. @Vitor Pamplona has talked about this ¶ All nostr clients should add P2P data integrity verification ASAP - when you interact with someone's post while they're online, your clients could automatically audit your relays by talking directly to each other client-to-client to cross-reference each other's local databases. ¶ We need to improve NIP-13 PoW support across the board to improve spam filter accuracy. People do not like inaccurate spam filters where a lot of bot posts get through and a lot of human posts don't. ¶ I think it also might be good to have a PoW "ticket" relay where an npub just generates sufficient PoW for 1 nevent and they're whitelisted for a certain number of additional nevents to be published from that npub within a certain timeframe, or maybe from that npub+network address combined. ¶ We need doggie coin and Monero tipping ASAP - I will keep working on this point myself. ¶ We need a new nevent format which doesn't use JavaScript or any English-centric code, and which is designed with P2P communication in mind, ASAP. This is another point I'm personally working way too slowly on (almost not at all). ¶ Later, if implementations based on the new js-free nevent format still don't support BitTorrent very well, we need to improve the BitTorrent integration with the js-free branch of the protocol and its implementations. Basically: nostr for indexing and storing small chunks of text, BitTorrent for storing and transferring big data. ¶ We need a tagging system for everything, not just posts, and it should be figured out alongside the nevent format and P2P network. This is why I work so slowly it's almost not at all. It's hard to make choices in one area without impacting another area. The tagging system should help the P2P network deal with manipulation at the technical level and also help the community keep track of stuff at the human level. Some tags would be human-managed, like "this npub has been helpful before." Some tags would be managed automatically, like "this npub is known to have replied before" (so even if a reply isn't in your database of posts, your tags database might still remember everyone you've talked to). ¶ We need a proper Wikipedia clone that doesn't use English-centric formatting unless it's wikitext for compatibility (fiatjaf is very tired of me saying this but it's true). ¶ A proper Wikipedia clone will end up requiring seriously advanced web of trust models once it has a bit of growth. ¶ We need systemic key backups / key rotation. At least 1 client needs to have a profile metadata field for a backup key, and a profile metadata field for a key the profile is a backup for, and NIP-03 timestamps for that metadata field. Is that good enough for people who say they don't join nostr because it has no key rotation built in, or do they need an overly complex spec that talks about derivation paths and stuff? I don't know. ¶ We need a blockchain-based DNS alternative that supports the backup keys / key rotation. I've posted a pretty good outline of a design for this, we would just need to decide collectively on formatting details and make sure to consider key rotation before finalizing the design. ¶ We need git over nostr. I do not have the skills to help with that, @Silberengel and others are trying ¶ We need something like the old @primal "my tribe" feed to come back and be more well-known this time. A feed that shows posts from all followers could bring some of the most beloved people and millions of their fans to nostr. It would be a big selling point to be able to say "come with me to nostr because I can actually fucking hear you there" ¶ We need w3.do the nostr-native DNS URL shortener, which we've already had the whole time I was typing this. There must be a cunning dev behind that. ¶ We need more people running nostr.
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We're in a peacetime. There's no enemy. Without an enemy we have nothing to fight for. Bluesky has an enemy. It's Elon Musk. Elon is a good enemy IMO, basically a super villian. But he's not our enemy in the same way. This leaves us, a bunch of libertarian tech bros, with the challenge of creating something new. This is not the time to give up, but to refocus our efforts. Nostr Protocol is not what's holding us back, it's how we're using it.
supermass's avatar
supermass 9 months ago
what’s up nostriches, give me a follow if you are a bitcoiner, looking for plebs to hang with on here
Bitcoin Ranger's avatar
Bitcoin Ranger 9 months ago
If the goal were to build something popular, then it needs retooling. If the goal were to build permissionless social media, then it’s a success.
Z0M8I3D 3D's avatar
Z0M8I3D 3D 9 months ago
That's how it went down w/PvtPpr. Built in 2018, made automated in 2020 and by 2023 most people moved on to the next thing that does similar but the same. Also I found out the hard way, most people use socials to outreach not communicate directly. Normally the longterm peeps will be somewhere for communication and its hard to move them once they have a foothole somewhere.
This is an excellent playground for autistic people like me! 🤩 😂 Thank you so much – I’m having a great time here, and I’ll always be grateful for it! 😎
frag's avatar
frag 9 months ago
Gpg in the 90s. Great tech. Nobody cared. I still send emails in plaintext. We always make that mistake. Building tech without people.
Henry G.'s avatar
Henry G. 9 months ago
It took bitcoin over a decade. Relax
I think we've hit what Seth Godin calls "The Dip" Nostr may never be a replacement for Twitter/X, but it is amazing, and opens up a whole world of possibilities. I see it as the social / identity / marketplace layer for Bitcoin... and a decentralised communications layer for other apps. The work on Cashu is a testament to this... Nutzaps, P2PK locking of tokens to npubs show how Nostr can enable decentralized payments. I can send you sats locked to your identity without you even having a lightning address in your Nostr profile. We are barely scratching the surface of what Nostr's use cases.
0x80085's avatar
0x80085 9 months ago
The main issues imo are : Lack of normie/news/drama hashtag discoverability. I find it so hard finding relevant news discussions that aren't bots spamming headlines with 0 replies The constant BTC circlejerk and inability to get engagement with topics other than btc/crypto. There's no fomo/fun for non-btc'ers. Lack of 'new media figures/communities' (e.g. streamers, whistleblowers, other cult-like follower bases) No 'for you' algo which auto feeds interesting content. Decentralization being baked in makes all these bumps in adoption every bit more difficult to overcome, most of the above-mentioned points are more difficult to overcome due to it Imo fediverse (mainly poast and japanese fedis) do a much better job than nostr at the cult part of it. Also due to their fedi instance centralization, they orbit around something/someone and thus have closer engagement circles and moreover clashes with other circles (ie drama) Nostr has none or not enough of these concepts View quoted note →