I’m tired of smart-stuff. I want dumb. Dumb-tv, dumb-car, dumb-fridge.

Same for washing machines and friges

Waching machines? I would imagine they need a chip, when the user can select different programs regulate temperature and multiple steps from prewash to drying in the end. One can do them without internet. But I can not really imagine to use a totally computer free washing machine. Happy I do not have to use a car. With bikes this is still pretty easy to buy one that is only mechanical 😉

Who dis? The not car crash zapper @Gigi in red/ blue instead of green? 🤔

It's called a "bike" and it works great 😁

Which bitcoiner is gonna build this company cause I'm in. Satoshi motors. View quoted note →

98% sure that Trump could win a 3rd term if he unleashed this $10k truck in the united states. View quoted note →

So not "EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER".

Even my bike has a computer.

2000-2012 is the sweet spot. The best car I’ve ever owned was a 2005 mk4 Jetta TDI. Didn’t do anything I wouldn’t instruct it to. It was hyper-efficient, durable and fun to drive.

Not really. We had thermostats and mechanical timers not even 20 years ago in washing machines and dryers. No computers necessary. Arguably most work has been government regulation, or cost of resources like gas, electric, and water, in the name of efficiency. Those components were made for decades, worked for decades, and were available decades later. Now machines are deprecated 1-2 years after purchase and parts are unavailable, and un-repariable because of potting and proprietary chips and tamper resistant roms.

Bring back manual transmissions.

Oh and the engineering degree to even know what you're looking at.

Nah. Some computer is good. OBD2 is a great thing to have. I don't want anything more than a computer to check sensors for faults.

My response was going to be "NOTHING IS COMPUTER". 😅💜🐕

We have to print and assemble our own stuff to get that. I'm totally into it...

Early 90s Camry or Civic

TDI's really were the best

Why?

My best friend is a lifelong car guy and professional mechanic and he always says (in regards to mk4 TDI’s): “they’re the best cars.” He ain’t lyin’

Because the cheap chips are made from Chinese dog shit and they’re expensive to replace/repair.

FTW

THIS View quoted note →

Ok we seem to live in different universes. Where I live washingmachines are repairable, it is my decision if I buy ultra high tech phones where everything is soldered together or go for fairphone or framework laptop. But yes in general things are less repaired in the rich countries. Mostly becauce time is far more expensive, so replacement is cheaper. But in general there is a clear tendency to more regulation for thejright to repair, endurability and so on. Check out the security update span of newer phones. They get longer support than before 5 years. I know it can be far better. But it is also just not true, that everything is consistantly getting worse.

> I know it can be far better. But it is also just not true, that everything is consistantly getting worse. That's because this is subjective. My measure is, that I shouldn't lose any convenience with progression. If you sold me something, but also took something away, that's "getting worse". I had a simple, working, and repairable machine. I had the confidence that a screwdriver is all I needed to get a repair done. Then you sold me 10 presets, more buttons, and an "eco" mode, but took away my ability to repair it when it breaks. They you took away the warranty that says _you_ will repair it when it breaks. So now I have this magic box I hope doesn't break after 1 year of operation, then I have to buy a new one, or try to find someone who specializes to repair it, without the ability to purchase OEM quality parts (which are junk now too) When my washing machine broke after 10 years of use, I just called the manufacturer (or reseller) and asked to purchase a replacement part that was, relative to the cost of repair or replacement, inexpensive. Now, warranty is 1-2 years, and when they break it's almost impossible to find the modules, connectors, sensors and so on. There's no such thing as a service manual anymore (I was in automotive and even service manuals there are getting harder to acquire). All you needed was curiosity, knowledge of a how to use a flat blade screw driver and how to read. It's an irrefutable fact this is no longer the case, and is being made more difficult by the day. I made a living in automotive firmware reverse engineering for 7 years. I worked on 30 year old trucks. Why TF is that even a profession??? My customers paid me because they wanted to repair or modify their vehicle, but didn't have my engineering degree and dedication. I dedicated almost 10 years of my life because I can't just adjust my distributor, or my carburetor, for better fuel economy. I need to modify locked down software running on a computer to do that.

That doesn't even include the diagnostics... Like if the thing didn't turn on, I could replace the only electronic part for $50 and it worked again. How am I supposed to know what sensor, module, connector, motor or what is bad? What specialized diagnostics tool do I need to purchase to do that? Replacements parts are expensive, if you can get them. In automotive we call it "fire parts cannon" when you don't have the ability, or information, or it's not cost effective, to correctly diagnose a problem so you just replace all the parts you can and hope for the best.

* If you sold me something I didn't ask for

Some computers are good. You just need to remove the always online connections and the excessive logging.

> t is my decision if I buy ultra high tech phones where everything is soldered together or go for fairphone or framework laptop. In the case of the fairphone, it's not available in the US or with many major carriers (namly mine). I can't speak to a fair phone, they may be all that, but other alternatives, are unfair to say they are even as close in comparison to flagship phones from 5 years ago. We had "good" devices, now we have to give up more than we did (privacy, repair etc), just to get the same thing we had before. As someone who hacked together a non-google "foss everything" android, because I care about it - it's NOT EVEN CLOSE to usable in comparison with Google Android and imo, anyone who disagrees is coping too hard to make a valid argument. If I had anywhere close to a normie life all foss android simply could not work, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who actually prioritized being productive. Same with most arguments of "just use this foss app on github" has never used it to actually get work done, or get somewhere important, or heavily rely on it.

My time is not free.

Really always wanted a classic Bronco.

Lots of people talk about it here, but few are actually about it

I'll pass

Still cranking my windows on my pickup 🤙🏼.

My mini truck is low computer.

I had a 97 mk3 jetta tdi

For sure

Why is this so much to ask for?

Solid. I drive a 2005 Nissan Altima

It’ll be a blue ocean for company’s selling 0 tech cars!

siiiik

Those were pretty sweet. I had an mk2 golf in high school. My uncle gave it to me, some tweakers had cut out the catalytic converter so we shoehorned in an old Jetta exhaust lol it was awesome. My uncle is a wild man.

Ya fella. 👍 That's a fuckin' sauna on the back. Used for cold water surfing.

There are way too many regulations forcing the industry to install sensors and other devices that require onboard computing.

EFI is still controlled by a computer.

also a tv

I want a lightweight electric car with no gadgets, motor and lights only. Like my ebike, something I can just charge on the solar instead of giving all my money to corporations for fuel.

I want a lightweight electric car with no gadgets, motor and lights only. Like my ebike, something I can just charge on the solar instead of giving all my money to corporations for fuel.

I have cars with no computers, but the all require petrol (gasoline is a brand name for petrol in case the Americans are confused by the word petrol) Petrol snd diesel make you dependant for fuel. Electric, charge it on the solar, corporations lose power, vintage electric cars are real freedom.

The Contingency Plan.

make cars, cars again

Facts!

I want a car that I can bootload a FOSS OS on.

just get a damn 90s car. everything new is pure fiat.

Do you have updates downloaded to your electronic car.

Things were just better before we allowed lobbyist

Love my Tesla. 😅 My first car…

4 12kw qmotor motors swap on any old car

Yes dummies.

Waiting for the Hilux Champ to hit the EU(never gonna happen)

I have a Suzuki with 0% computers in it. I do feel like a superhero…

Talked to a guy the other day who told me that he's buying a 2000 Miata. Legend.

Thank you for your expanded response. I think in most part we fight in the same direction. You and me want to have fully opensource, easy to repair, endurable high end products. My point is mostly, that I am against maximalist claims. I do disagree quiet strongly, with opinions, which use words as "everything", "nothing", "always", "never" and so on for practicle reasons. Since when the claim would be true that it is only getting worse, this includes the message that there is nothing we could do to make it better. Specific cases of particularly good examples or particularly bad examples I see as more practicle, since they give room of opportunity. When there is no room of opportunity, then a discussion is without practical sense. And therefore to me without any sense. So Probably I was disagreeing mostly due to my allergy against these (in my opinion) non-words, since they close any discussion, when they would be true.

Then how do you tune it?

toyota corolla sportivos FTW

2011 Tacoma, can confirm.

Maybe because it's a creeping privacy nightmare. Mozilla published a report. It's damning.

Mozilla Foundation

‘Privacy Nightmare on Wheels’: Every Car Brand Reviewed By Mozilla — Including Ford, Volkswagen and Toyota — Flunks Privacy Test

Mozilla’s latest edition of *Privacy Not Included reveals how 25 major car brands collect and share deeply personal data, including sexual activi...

It's my dream, as soon as kids are old enough for me to ignore the lack of safety features.

Social media is a place for opinions, it's also a place for those to challenge them. I don't really care about either, I just want people to make actually honest arguments. I often speak in anecdote because I think there is a real sentiment that can be argued. Imo, rarely does simply refuting a statement on "related fact" change ones opinions. Showing statistics and suggesting causation is just as egregious imo. That said I tend to agree, however empty, over-optimistic refutations bother me too. They often go for the ad hominem of "you're just black pilled". I'm just against the idea that you refuse to acknowledge that X thing is objectively worse than it _was_ which is _why_ we have the alternative in the first place. But the other part is, there is a reason the alternative has 80 stars on GitHub and is updated once a year. Because it's not good... I just get the impression that often those who suggest "the alternative is good" literally haven't used it. World view and framing I suppose. > My point is mostly, that I am against maximalist claims. I do disagree quiet strongly, with opinions, which use words as "everything", "nothing", "always", "never" and so on for practice reasons. I would suggest that maybe you were looking for something that wasn't there. Specifically in the washing machine and refrigerator statement. Again I say this as someone who worked on computers for diesel engine management, I think computers managing engines _can_ be good, but it shouldn't be so difficult. And given the option, I would rather go back in time. We can have the quiet interior, and mostly safe braking, crash resistance, and steering, completely mechanically... because we did! Have a look at and VAG car from the early 2000s. Yes they were mechanically complex, but many (if not most) mechanical failures are less catastrophic. Think suspension wear, steering wear, brakes etc. They are physically redundant, not my car won't turn on, could it be the telematics?, the radio (yes actually)? the GPS? the gauge cluster? the abs or brake control module? The interior module? Oh the front bumber sensor cluster? This isn't hyperbole either btw, everything I just listed is true depending on the failure mode.

Yes defnitly complexity is growing. I can understand, that many people, that could repair almost everything on their own some years ago are frustrated about the level of complexity. This complexity may just has also its legitimation in the amount of comfort and features every new tool has to deliver. I mean when there would be more need for easy to repair then "high end and every feature imaginable has to be included" then probably companies which do produce such products would be where Samsung is today. I am also a developer for electronic devices. And devices with more features usually sell better, since every costumer thinks: Rather I pay a little more, for the case I need the better Camera, an AI-Chip or so.

> I am also a developer for electronic devices. And devices with more features usually sell better, since every costumer thinks: Rather I pay a little more, for the case I need the better Camera, an AI-Chip or so. I think this is a good point too. I think myself and others are not oblivious that the normie user "doesn't care" about repair-ability, they'd rather have the shiny new features. However Id suggest this is not exactly true. If you told the user at the time of purchase: "You can have the shiny new feature set BUT, it's probably going to become unusable in 2 years and you'll have to throw it away and spend another $1000 to do this again" I'd be willing to be those statistics would be lower. I could be totally wrong on that, and I'd be quite depressed if that was true. So what I'm suggesting is that, modern uses trust that a convenience given to them in the past, will remain (because they didn't know they had it) with the new device, and they simply have the bonus of better features. They say "I'll take that risk" because it's realized not up front. I'm suggesting it's due to conditioning of selling higher quality products that didn't harvest user data. Now the cost of privacy, for example, is unrealized.

2006 Nissan Almera - I often marvel who it actually moves

buy cars no later than 1999 with a few rare exceptions regarding later models 👇