Big Bad John's avatar
Big Bad John 6 months ago
If nostr were the answer, people like me would be building on it. Ask yourselves who the builders are that aren't choosing nostr, and why. Then ask yourselves what all the people building here have in common. Then compare these groups earnestly. I dont just mean Bitcoiners vs Bluehairsky. I mean their experience, talent, and reputation. I mean the most talented and resourceful people; people that innovate, and have deep expertise. Why aren't they leaving where they are to build here? Examples: Bitcoin Core devs, shitcoin expert devs that really do want to fix things, talented cryptographers, deeply experienced systems/p2p people, experienced entrepreneurs, reputable VCs and funders. The closest I see here are people that got Bitcoin-rich and are now learning how to be angels by naively funding their friends and dead-end startup projects that arent much better than weekend hackathon submissions. A sandbox for playing. Everything worth anything here is a subdivision of Bitcoin culture itself and Bitcoin privilege. Bitcoin is the only provider of talent and resources to Nostr. That worked great to bootstrap from nothing, but now what? Deal with this, and figure out how to be relevant to other people, or Nostr will continue to be nothing more than a perpetual hackathon sandbox subsidized by a Bitcoiner ego-cult.

Replies (163)

Im not sure i know the answer to the first 2 questions. But i would assume the answer would apply to any other decentralized platform... So no one should work on any other decentralized social platform???!
They aren’t building on nostr because they see more value building elsewhere. Whether that is true or not will become clear over time. But that is the simple answer.
You're not wrong — the strongest minds in systems, cryptography, and product aren’t here yet. But maybe that’s exactly the opportunity. Nostr isn’t about status. It’s about freedom. And most of the world’s best minds are still too busy surviving the fiat circus to notice what’s coming.
Troy's avatar
Troy 6 months ago
- High bandwidth usage - Relay operators need to get paid, and the typical user currently pays for centralized services by sharing their data. Paying for multiple relays will not be accepted by these folks. - Instead of one evil corporation having your data, everyone has access to your notes, etc. - Privacy was never a consideration in the protocol design - NIPs are a moving target. People have been attempting to implement private (secure) chats and marketplaces, but have to keep rewriting and redesigning what they just released. I'm sure if you spend a few minutes, you can think of other issues, unless you're a new user.
I'm a Nostr only nobody that digs it here, but this is a bad ass spoonful of "step up yo game" medicine - damn....
Big Bad John's avatar Big Bad John
If nostr were the answer, people like me would be building on it. Ask yourselves who the builders are that aren't choosing nostr, and why. Then ask yourselves what all the people building here have in common. Then compare these groups earnestly. I dont just mean Bitcoiners vs Bluehairsky. I mean their experience, talent, and reputation. I mean the most talented and resourceful people; people that innovate, and have deep expertise. Why aren't they leaving where they are to build here? Examples: Bitcoin Core devs, shitcoin expert devs that really do want to fix things, talented cryptographers, deeply experienced systems/p2p people, experienced entrepreneurs, reputable VCs and funders. The closest I see here are people that got Bitcoin-rich and are now learning how to be angels by naively funding their friends and dead-end startup projects that arent much better than weekend hackathon submissions. A sandbox for playing. Everything worth anything here is a subdivision of Bitcoin culture itself and Bitcoin privilege. Bitcoin is the only provider of talent and resources to Nostr. That worked great to bootstrap from nothing, but now what? Deal with this, and figure out how to be relevant to other people, or Nostr will continue to be nothing more than a perpetual hackathon sandbox subsidized by a Bitcoiner ego-cult.
View quoted note →
Big Bad John's avatar
Big Bad John 6 months ago
Only people raised on podcasts and bad books use the term "time preference" it is a clear red flag at this point.
So time preference is not a real economic principle? Please argue that fact. Only people trying to make competing protocols and stupid bips would make a post as short sighted as your own. It's a clear red flag.
lmao.... "bitcoin privilege"... btw "experience, talent, and reputation" mean fuck all when it comes to recognizing the RIGHT thing to do, let alone ACTUALLY DOING IT. most people are one-dimensional trained monkeybots with zero spiritual awareness and certainly no transcendental compass to guide their retarded and scientized intellect anywhere but toward money and quantity. "figure out how to be relevant to other people".... LMAO who the fuck do you think you are you bag of dust?
A9's avatar
A9 6 months ago
We People do what they do For our own reasons. We see how and what we see. We understand the way we understand and value what we value Freedom to choose. Eveyone's own choice where and how to involve and put and recieve energy🕊️
Big Bad John's avatar
Big Bad John 6 months ago
Are there actual well-spoken mature and earnest people in nostr that can argue genuinely? Or is this some sorta thing where i will have to refute a bunch of retarded memes?
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Hofer99 6 months ago
🤭🤭🤭🤭🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵🫣🫣🫣🫣😀😃😄😁😆😅😂🤣
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Hofer99 6 months ago
Keep going this is great😂😂😂😂😂
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Hofer99 6 months ago
You🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵
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Hofer99 6 months ago
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 please keep going.
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Hofer99 6 months ago
😂😂😂😃😀🤣 your the only one not retarded... Please keep going.
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Hofer99 6 months ago
What free dumb he asks...🤣🤣🤣🫵🫵🫵🫵😅😅😅
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Hofer99 6 months ago
Keep going princess🤣🤣🤣🤣 everyone loves a stupid troll.
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Hofer99 6 months ago
🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵😅😅🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Hofer99 6 months ago
😀😀😀🫵🫵🫵😅😅🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Hofer99 6 months ago
🤣🤣🤣😅🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵😁😄😄
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Hofer99 6 months ago
HOLEE FUCK DUDEEE🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Hofer99 6 months ago
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵
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Hofer99 6 months ago
You fked in head🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
richard's avatar
richard 6 months ago
- high bandwidth usage that's one of the tradeoffs, keep reading below to understand. - relay operators need to get paid not necessarily, the goal that is currently work in progress is to have the outbox model be widely adopted. every user has their own relay they run, or have someone run for them. there is significant progress being made over different clients aiming to this. just like with TOR, there will always be people willing to run relays for free. not to mention that running a nostr relay is easy and accessible to anyone. - instead of one evil corporation having your data, everyone does information should be free and nostr enables that. as soon as you post something on legacy social media, it is *public*, it can be seen by anyone so what is nostr doing wrong? nostr takes it a step further by making it verifiable with every post being signed. "don't trust, verify." when we say nostr is better for your privacy, it is the case because your *private* data (ie queries sent to relays) gets spread all over nostr via hundreds of different relays (outbox model). that way, it is significantly harder for any malicious actor to be able to know what/where you are browsing. on the client side, you are not being tracked which is not the case on legacy social media where every single touch on your screen is analyzed. (most nostr clients are open source, that can be verified) - privacy was never a consideration in the protocol design the main goal behind nostr is censorship resistance and is currently the best real decentralized network in the social media realm. privacy is and has always been a consideration for most builders and users of nostr. you notice that when you look at the NIPs, and how a lot of clients integrate TOR. - NIPs are a moving target. that is one of the main strengths of nostr, achieving interoperability is not easy but it's being done remarkably for most NIPs. seems like when something is rewritten, it is for the better. take a look at DMs, we're going from NIP-04 to NIP-17 (so much better) to now NIP-EE achieving MLS integration on a decentralized network. - there are issues and we all know that, what makes nostr different is that we're at least acknowledging them and trying to solve them consistently.
#fuck_jews's avatar
#fuck_jews 6 months ago
"Jews own everything" was such an alien word 2 years ago, and ever since that phrase started accumulating popularity a tendency toward low operation cost Apps has skyrocketed because it's the only way to guarantee zero Jewish influence I'm here because of jews and most of new comers If you can't address the reality around us then you can have fun staying politically correct any where other than nostr and get more reach, PUSSY.
Big Bad John's avatar Big Bad John
If nostr were the answer, people like me would be building on it. Ask yourselves who the builders are that aren't choosing nostr, and why. Then ask yourselves what all the people building here have in common. Then compare these groups earnestly. I dont just mean Bitcoiners vs Bluehairsky. I mean their experience, talent, and reputation. I mean the most talented and resourceful people; people that innovate, and have deep expertise. Why aren't they leaving where they are to build here? Examples: Bitcoin Core devs, shitcoin expert devs that really do want to fix things, talented cryptographers, deeply experienced systems/p2p people, experienced entrepreneurs, reputable VCs and funders. The closest I see here are people that got Bitcoin-rich and are now learning how to be angels by naively funding their friends and dead-end startup projects that arent much better than weekend hackathon submissions. A sandbox for playing. Everything worth anything here is a subdivision of Bitcoin culture itself and Bitcoin privilege. Bitcoin is the only provider of talent and resources to Nostr. That worked great to bootstrap from nothing, but now what? Deal with this, and figure out how to be relevant to other people, or Nostr will continue to be nothing more than a perpetual hackathon sandbox subsidized by a Bitcoiner ego-cult.
View quoted note →
again, what am I supposed to be able to take away from this? other than you've had problems with other people's work. I know firsthand that lots of things on Nostr have been attempted and then paused, broken, or failed - it's a collection of thousands of experiments by curious devs trying to build the future. It sounds like there's some interesting details behind why you wrote your original post, and those details are what actually might help people move forward - hence my first comment asking for more
Waitwhat's avatar
Waitwhat 6 months ago
“If nostr were the answer, people like me would be building on it.” • Answer to what question? A decentralised relay system transmitting notes and other stuff? Nostr appears to be doing its job. • People unlike you are building on it? Maybe that’s not a bad thing. • People like you aren’t building on it? Maybe that’s a good thing. Any contribution is net positive, so maybe someday you’ll come around.
Looked to see who he was, wasn't following him, looks like I'm still not following him. Tick tock next block.
Bro I dig your post and your ego I think more people should stay their intelligent arguments and opinions, whatever they may be Haha cheers mate!
I bet there's a free relay broadcasting our notes so we can have this conversation 😂. Seriously though, some people think that companies will run relays to support their other products. We'll probably see relays specific to different types of apps. I still wonder if someone will figure out a clever way to do free-relays that are ad supported.
Troy's avatar
Troy 6 months ago
I wouldn't put any of that under "good progress". I think ad supported relays will be acceptable to the typical user of centralized systems, but I've only seen disdain for the idea from current Nostr users, and no mention of designs for it.
lets try it another way... "Why aren't they leaving where they are to build here? " for the same reason they didnt quit working at Gulag and Facefuck when they heard about bitcoin... they are niggers - in spirit.
Well, to push back on your premise - what makes you think it’s a real problem? Do you have any evidence that lack of paid relays is problematic? Consider damus and primal relays - both make money from other things and run a big free relay.
Karadenizli's avatar
Karadenizli 6 months ago
Every startup starts with a MVP before scale forces a rewrite. Yes most projects are hackathons, but that's true of most projects generally, only, most other protocols/APIs are much harder to work with. But honest to God, multiple of the most popular clients are more usable than most big social apps. I daily drive amethyst and I can genuinely say it's the best social media app that I use in terms of pure UX. Maybe this is because nostr hasn't been stress tested yet, but I have no reason to believe it can't deal with that better than any other platform/protocol. Look at all the big social media apps. Reddit app is genuinely terrible. Its slow buggy and UX is so retarded that only a billion dollar company could come up with it. Every time I use it I miss the 3rd party client I used for it before they killed it the API. Same goes for X, insta, Facebook etc. These are used by everyone and they are all worse than the hackathon projects here. The best out of them all is YT and instagram but even the youtube app is a worse frontend than newpipe. That's the front end. What nostr changes the game on compared to everything before is how it allows competitive development for back end. We already see large teams being beat out by random devs in front end, why wouldn't the same be the case for back end? We see the big companies try and fail everyday at dealing with the problems of scaling back-end, nostr allows many devs to take a crack at the problems in many different ways. You said nostr is a liability to build on top of. What part? Everything is optional except kind 0 user metadata. Is that a liability? The protocol doesn't limit you in any real way.
Troy's avatar
Troy 6 months ago
Relay operator statements.
Troy's avatar
Troy 6 months ago
Also relays disappearing.
We’re a little earlier for your logic to be correct Let’s see in a few years when the guy in the street knows about Nostr
Nostr attracts people who post content the average person isn't interested in. It's that simple. People joined Facebook in order to connect with friends, Twitter in order to connect with the world, Instagram in order to share photos, etc. There's no "you join Nostr in order to" that is appealing to the average person (nobody here is average). But I genuinely think this will change soon.
Disserter's avatar
Disserter 6 months ago
build fun stuff for Main Street that kills their math taxes. can people play casino games and next-gen lottery and bet on real events? can people crowdsource work and crowdfund moonshots? how many animal shelters and sanctuaries repost here?
It's over guys. I'm moving @Zapstore to Pubky, the akshually open protocol that needs an invite code to create an account. After all, it's where the coolest p2p wizards, world-class entrepreneurs and VCs hang out. I'm tired of being a nostr loser working this "freedom tech" nonsense bubble. Now is the time to become a shitcoin expert dev that really does want to fix things. View quoted note →
🧂
Big Bad John's avatar Big Bad John
If nostr were the answer, people like me would be building on it. Ask yourselves who the builders are that aren't choosing nostr, and why. Then ask yourselves what all the people building here have in common. Then compare these groups earnestly. I dont just mean Bitcoiners vs Bluehairsky. I mean their experience, talent, and reputation. I mean the most talented and resourceful people; people that innovate, and have deep expertise. Why aren't they leaving where they are to build here? Examples: Bitcoin Core devs, shitcoin expert devs that really do want to fix things, talented cryptographers, deeply experienced systems/p2p people, experienced entrepreneurs, reputable VCs and funders. The closest I see here are people that got Bitcoin-rich and are now learning how to be angels by naively funding their friends and dead-end startup projects that arent much better than weekend hackathon submissions. A sandbox for playing. Everything worth anything here is a subdivision of Bitcoin culture itself and Bitcoin privilege. Bitcoin is the only provider of talent and resources to Nostr. That worked great to bootstrap from nothing, but now what? Deal with this, and figure out how to be relevant to other people, or Nostr will continue to be nothing more than a perpetual hackathon sandbox subsidized by a Bitcoiner ego-cult.
View quoted note →
What a cringe post 😂 the people are temporary, the tech is forever. What a dumb critique. There are many people on nostr I don’t like either, but that doesn’t justify shit. Bitcoin is the money of enemies because its trust-minimized, so shall nostr be for communication.
acronym's avatar
acronym 6 months ago
If you have something to say just say it.
Nostr feels nothing like Bitcoin to me Genuinely surprised anyone feels this way
When I was orange-pilling a friend, she said something like "they should make it easier to buy bitcoin." With Nostr as with Bitcoin there is no they; there's only us. If you think Nostr has potential, YOU figure out how to make it relevant to other people. In the meantime, we're all doing that in our own way here.
Projection? Maybe you're the ego-cult? How many of us shitty devs have you tried to recruit into your invite only Rube Goldberg machine building ... "enterprise" without delivering a thing you dare to show publicly? You've been recruiting since at least two years. I take this message of you as your farewell. Come back when you can show something.
BitTasker 's avatar
BitTasker 6 months ago
BitTasker is not a company — it's a mission to decentralize income and make Bitcoin useful in everyday life. Built on Nostr #earnbtc #p2p #grownostr #decentralized https://bittasker.com/
The messenger might be a narcissist but the message is genuinely concerning. That doesn't mean that his Rube Goldberg machine would be better on that metric.
You know onion relays? And even if we have to innovate beyond dns, we will if there's need to. It's not like all the events would get deleted and all the people would just shrug and go back to the gulag.
❤️‍🔥
Big Bad John's avatar Big Bad John
If nostr were the answer, people like me would be building on it. Ask yourselves who the builders are that aren't choosing nostr, and why. Then ask yourselves what all the people building here have in common. Then compare these groups earnestly. I dont just mean Bitcoiners vs Bluehairsky. I mean their experience, talent, and reputation. I mean the most talented and resourceful people; people that innovate, and have deep expertise. Why aren't they leaving where they are to build here? Examples: Bitcoin Core devs, shitcoin expert devs that really do want to fix things, talented cryptographers, deeply experienced systems/p2p people, experienced entrepreneurs, reputable VCs and funders. The closest I see here are people that got Bitcoin-rich and are now learning how to be angels by naively funding their friends and dead-end startup projects that arent much better than weekend hackathon submissions. A sandbox for playing. Everything worth anything here is a subdivision of Bitcoin culture itself and Bitcoin privilege. Bitcoin is the only provider of talent and resources to Nostr. That worked great to bootstrap from nothing, but now what? Deal with this, and figure out how to be relevant to other people, or Nostr will continue to be nothing more than a perpetual hackathon sandbox subsidized by a Bitcoiner ego-cult.
View quoted note →
Nostr was started by lightning developers. Many of those devs are the most talented coders I know. Lightning is still small, but mighty. So is nostr.
I've been following this on & off all day and I still fail to see what this guy is trying to accomplish here besides possibly poaching some developers or users? It comes across as very unprofessional. All the points he's brought up have been discussed openly, with multiple ideas and proposals floated in a constructive, maybe sometimes contentious, fashion in the past. I have seen no reason to doubt the integrity of anyone who has chosen to take on the difficult tasks.
"Ask yourself who the buikders are that aren't choosing nostr and why" Immediately went to your pubky site and there is no link to your github (or even download via fdroid) so I could even possibly assess what are the benefits of the development you're doing without having google involved, so that is a red flag. Uses aurora store, to download and immediately doesn't work without an invite code, red flag. So what actually am I supposed to compare nostr to? Don't say centralized services either because sure having builders is cool, but most of those folks will admit to you that they are sacrificing some of their own principles because the pay is good. Like I guarantee you if you go ask engineers on Facebook about the fact that it's fucked up that no one outside fb can use the data they will agree.
I have never seen a better builder community than Nostr. You show me a better one and I'll be interested
> Relay operators need to get paid This is so true. On the internet, we have no services run by volunteers. And volunteers don't operate in any field to further fundamental human rights, such as freedom of speech. And, of course, organizations are all run for profit. Oh, wait…
"If nostr were the answer, people like me would be building on it." Pffffff... hahahhahahahahhahahahha! image
Such a boring and tired take from someone who doesn't build and doesn't ship products that people use.
Big Bad John's avatar
Big Bad John 6 months ago
I opened this thread incognito to see how many responses came from people I have muted. Most of them! Oof. If you want a response, try X? I probably have you muted there too though... View quoted note →
n's avatar
n 6 months ago
Since I only understand Japanese, I'm using a translation app. I apologize if any expressions come across as rude. I'd like to try things like pkar, pkdns, and Mainline DHT, and would be grateful if I could receive an invitation code if possible. Also, is Pubky Ring still not available in Japan?
I tried it too. I was not interested in accepting the pubky terms, did anyway, then the app could not connect to any servers and I closed it as useless Compared to almost any actually permissionless Nostr app, this is … not working BUT PEOPLE LIKE HIM WOULD BUILD ON NOSTR IF NOSTR WORKED, you know, if only we could all communicate easily via this protocol John sounds like a shitcoiner trying to convince people to join his DAO
It’s kind of expected. Go to anyone’s house and start dunking on it and the people inside. What is ironic is that he’s here and we are not on whatever it is he is building 😌 he mad
Default avatar
Noisy signal 6 months ago
1. Nostr doesn't need people like you. Ego is not a skill set that pervades Nostr. This is not Twitter. 2. First impressions from your statement- predatory, monetizing and attempts to undermine the vibrant culture growing from the roots up. Not from the tree tops down. 3. Take the time to check out Jack Dorsey, Jeff Booth, Lyn Alden - all of them and many others like them are here educating dumb asses like me, and I'm grateful. 4. So get down from that tree top and stop Godomizing yourself .
People like you? Who do you think you are mate? Little advice: you’re not as relevant as you think you are. Might wanna check your ego at the door.
Bitcoin is succeeding because centralized FIAT failed. Nostr will succeed when centralized social medias fail. It just needs to be ready when the time comes. To answer your question. You have a very centralized way to think. I don't believe that a good idea is automatically adopted by everyone.
The reason @Big Bad John hates Nostr is because he's being paid by Tether to develop a competing project. Simple as that. The same goes for the rest of the Twitter influencers, the reason they all hate Nostr is because they're being paid by Elon.
Big Bad John's avatar Big Bad John
If nostr were the answer, people like me would be building on it. Ask yourselves who the builders are that aren't choosing nostr, and why. Then ask yourselves what all the people building here have in common. Then compare these groups earnestly. I dont just mean Bitcoiners vs Bluehairsky. I mean their experience, talent, and reputation. I mean the most talented and resourceful people; people that innovate, and have deep expertise. Why aren't they leaving where they are to build here? Examples: Bitcoin Core devs, shitcoin expert devs that really do want to fix things, talented cryptographers, deeply experienced systems/p2p people, experienced entrepreneurs, reputable VCs and funders. The closest I see here are people that got Bitcoin-rich and are now learning how to be angels by naively funding their friends and dead-end startup projects that arent much better than weekend hackathon submissions. A sandbox for playing. Everything worth anything here is a subdivision of Bitcoin culture itself and Bitcoin privilege. Bitcoin is the only provider of talent and resources to Nostr. That worked great to bootstrap from nothing, but now what? Deal with this, and figure out how to be relevant to other people, or Nostr will continue to be nothing more than a perpetual hackathon sandbox subsidized by a Bitcoiner ego-cult.
View quoted note →
Cody's avatar
Cody 6 months ago
Probably right about this
Cody's avatar
Cody 6 months ago
I think you're right about Nostr as a social media platform, but if nothing else, Nostr has made my remote node way more usable because of NWC. That is a win
😄 Terms of Service 😂 Privacy Policy 🤣 Age Verification image
Big Bad John's avatar Big Bad John
If nostr were the answer, people like me would be building on it. Ask yourselves who the builders are that aren't choosing nostr, and why. Then ask yourselves what all the people building here have in common. Then compare these groups earnestly. I dont just mean Bitcoiners vs Bluehairsky. I mean their experience, talent, and reputation. I mean the most talented and resourceful people; people that innovate, and have deep expertise. Why aren't they leaving where they are to build here? Examples: Bitcoin Core devs, shitcoin expert devs that really do want to fix things, talented cryptographers, deeply experienced systems/p2p people, experienced entrepreneurs, reputable VCs and funders. The closest I see here are people that got Bitcoin-rich and are now learning how to be angels by naively funding their friends and dead-end startup projects that arent much better than weekend hackathon submissions. A sandbox for playing. Everything worth anything here is a subdivision of Bitcoin culture itself and Bitcoin privilege. Bitcoin is the only provider of talent and resources to Nostr. That worked great to bootstrap from nothing, but now what? Deal with this, and figure out how to be relevant to other people, or Nostr will continue to be nothing more than a perpetual hackathon sandbox subsidized by a Bitcoiner ego-cult.
View quoted note →
People look to justify their own actions all the time “People like me” says it all You’re free to build wherever you want John, that’s absolutely true Go for it I hope you’re not missing ways to potentially incorporate Nostr into your products as they are As for the potential of Nostr, let’s see with time what’s true I for one embrace the idea that a new generation of capital allocators are entering the fray, backing ideas they see as valuable, in a manner that makes sense to them If wrong. The time and moneys gone. If right. Well you’re point is totally disproven