People who make notes saying: “I’m gonna zap everyone who responds to this” bother me. It’s like paying to advertise yourself. It’s not V4V and the vast majority of “people” who respond to these notes are not “people” I see regularly using nostr. They just come out of the woodwork when money is on the table.
Both sides of the spectrum (the shillers AND the beggars) should contemplate how to bring actual value to the space.
On the surface I agree with you. But I also think it is a simple template for advertising on nostr and can be useful if don’t right, and with a little more sophistication. For example, if I wanted to advertise a note maybe I’d say that anyone I follow who reposts or quotes it within the next 24 hours will get zapped x-amount of sats. Better to see ad money going to people rather than some advertising company/platform.
If you can differentiate people from bots/alt accounts sure, but it still doesn’t feel right to me. All those notes and responses just make me weary of those accounts
Same. That’s where I agree with you 😂 But I think having some basic criteria to filter who gets zapped could make it useful. I try to follow only non-scammy people, so I would generally be ok using that as a starting point. Or maybe a company could keep a list of people/npubs that have ordered from them, or whatever, and then reward those people with interactions/reposts/etc. I think it has a use, but needs to be more targeted.
I think it should go without saying that if you are posing a question or gathering input then you should by default by zapping whoever provides a valuable answer to you. It bothers me when people ask questions and get really good, thoughtful answers that undoubtedly took several minutes to write but the poster never zaps them for their expertise or input.
I think you're talking about the other types of posts though, right? The people who are like "I have 50k sats to spend over the next hour, whoever responds to this will get zapped!" Yeah, those are not v4v. They're playing a vacuous game that brings no value to either party.
It can work with anonymity, I think. Just need a moderately-useful web of trust to filter out scammers. I think we’ll see it. Some scammy accounts will still slip through, but it can be worth it for businesses/people that need to ensure fast exposure to more people. Up to each person though to decide if it’s worth their reputation to repost something for a few sats. I don’t like to do it most of the time. Usually I ignore those pleas for reposts, but if a company like Blockstream or some artist I like on here was making the offer I’d participate. It would benefit them, and me, and I’m okay reposting that kind of stuff.
If it’s advertising, it should be advertising SOMETHING though right? I feel like just advertising your own account serves no purpose other than attention seeking and reinforcing negative actors with positive rewards 🤷♀️
Say I’m an artist who just joined nostr. I know that posting without an algo, probably everything I post is going to get ignored. I would absolutely see the benefit of offering to zap anyone who reposts it within the next day. Maybe I limit it to zapping anyone with more than 1k followers, or anyone over a certain “trust score” on that thing that’s been going around. That would be super useful as new account trying to get connected.
I like the term connections better than followers, but whatever you wanna call it. You’re missing the web of trust part. Or whatever criteria. You seem convinced it can’t work, or shouldn’t be done, and I think that’s just a shitty attitude to have here.
I haven’t seen the web of trust actually work efficiently yet. I never said it couldn’t. I’m talking about right now. You seem to be talking in hypotheticals. I’m not interested in arguing over differences of opinions. I think two different opinions can coexist. It’s not like my saying something that bothers me is gonna change or affect anything. They’re just words.
And even if there is a functioning web of trust in the future, I will still think it’s cringe to engagement farm.
Advertising is different than engagement farming. Web of trust doesn’t need to be perfect for this kind of use case. Just good enough. I’ve seen @SoapMiner do some advertising this way to push out new products and from the outside looking in it appears to get his posts out pretty quickly. Again, you are taking a hardcore stand here that doesn’t make sense. Advertising is a legit activity, even necessary. What’s up your butt about it?
Sean said something that sounds like something I would say.
I’m pushing buttons and trying stuff here that feels
great because it’s finally an outlet for expressing generosity towards something that is hopeful.
95% of what I do on NOSTR feels cringe to me but it’s still worth it to try to see what works. Hopefully this helps to soften the lens on Sean because I don’t think it’s helpful to voice a personal preference that puts a generous sentiment or risk taking down without the zaps behind it. It’s kinda the antithesis of what’s hopeful here.
Post more zaps than Sean for your thoughts if you feel that strongly about it or find another way to prove the alternative route. But zapping more feels like the winning campaign here.
I’m sharing this note with the hope of potential unison. NOSTR is sadly our last hope so it’s worth debating sentiments that feel derisive. Hopefully this is received with respect for that notion 🙏
This is a much more general statement. I mute everyone who does it and that guy was not the first by any means nor will be the last. I just stated my opinion because the bots have become a problem here 🤷♀️
Just because I lurk nostr doesn't mean I'm not, "people" @Noshole and that viewpoint shuns many away from using nistr. #zapertisements allow people like me find followers to increase my voice on the protocol!!!
It's also likely to find you a lot of bots as followers, and have some people mute you. It's a double edged sword. Just like in real life if you earn your friends by paying for them, you'll find yourself surrounded by leeches.
You are an obnoxious try hard who acts like a moron on camera in the hopes that it gets you attention/follows/zaps. Is that really any better? I’m not a fan of either tactic personally.
Conviction. Not necessarily valid or correct. But provable conviction behind an opinion is what’s more interesting to me. No skin? Not that entertaining to me.
That’s a fair criticism. If someone has a shitload of bitcoin to spare they can fake conviction without it feeling like risk. We don’t want a pay 2 win for sure.
The nature of the original reply was not to put someone down who’s sending zaps without posting more zaps. I view skin in the game (zaps) as something that’s just more personally interesting to me. I view more zaps here as the language and what’s interesting.
If someone is saying they’re gonna fire more zaps and does so that’s just gonna be more interesting to follow. If a post is putting someone down that is sending the currency that props up NOSTR then it needs to be more interesting, credible or of higher quality than dissuading more zaps being sent here.
I didn’t get that from the post dissuading anyone from sending zaps.
So unless you can zap as much as the person you disagree with you shouldn't speak? This is a weird viewpoint to me, and I disagree. I came to Nostr for free speech, not zaps 🤷♂️
People pay for their children to attend ivy league colleges to network connections. Some could be shy, others leeches. Ultimately it's the paid promotion that bring about people that can change your life and change the world. I don't feel like shunning zapvertisments for the suspicion that the end user could be bots becuase they don't provide value is the way. Their value could be hidden behind a wall of anxiety and unfamiliarity of how a cutting edge protocol nostr is.
Not saying anything close to that, mate. Anyone saying that you shouldn’t speak if they can’t zap a certain amount is someone I wouldn’t associate with. Free speech is the most important thing here and anywhere for that matter. The reality is that zaps are what is going to bring more people here and encourage real journalism where compensation can be real. Discouraging zaps at all doesn’t feel like the winning take. Zaps are the incentive model here. It’s why we’re even having this debate.
Zaps work so we’re here.
On top of free speech, NOSTR is also a medium of exchange that needs to work and thrive. It works and thrives on zaps. Zaps are life blood here so dissuading zaps while putting someone down saying they’re only doing so to gain friends should have some more quality or a better counter behind such a claim. If Sean stops zapping (even if he really does need to buy friends) we all lose out on that valuable information. Let him send zaps and encourage zaps even if he loses them or doesn’t gain any friends. Don’t discourage zaps while putting him down for zapping though. That’s my position. It’s most certainty not to say pay for free speech.
The original reply was to hopefully
re-think putting someone down who’s saying they’re gonna zap a lot of people. Zaps are lifeblood here. If you are putting people down for sending them then back it up with something of higher quality replies than putting people down or at least put up more zaps than the person being put down who’s helping NOSTR the most.
Sean is definitely helping NOSTR by sending shitloads of zaps more than discouraging Sean to send zaps is.
Funny fucking moron though... and im pretty sure she doesnt give two fucks about zaps or follows. I say that as I've never heard her speak or care about Bitcoin... ever. The one thing she will do is take your sats over poker 😂
Don’t find her funny at all but to each their own. And most people don’t make “content” if they’re not seeking what nostr content potentially derives - attention/zaps/follows
Lighten up Francis 😂
She is funny as fuck, let’s ya into some struggles and has good fucking takes and asks for nothing as far as I can tell. Rolling into a room puffing a blunt and being goofy rules 🔥
I've seen these tactics before, and I've seen the people come and go. I'm free to judge people by their actions, and free to say whatever I want about it. You seem to disagree, and that's fine. I'm simply stating my viewpoint. I actually consider this a strong signal of who not to follow or pay attention to. I'm here for the genuine connections, not zap games. Enjoy Nostr 🤙
Zaps seem pretty even. In and out are pretty bang on, almost to the sat.
Humour is subjective, so some may not enjoy it. Judging by how often her notes are zapped, and commented on it seems like a lot do though. I've always found her pleasant to talk to.
I do not disagree with you being able to say whatever you want. It’s important to publicly reiterate I’m not saying anything close to that.
I zap indiscriminately at times (like Sean appears to do) to promote the incentive model that I think is necessary to gain the critical mass necessary for a free speech platform to win. Forever. NOSTR needs to beat twitter at the incentive to get more journalists here and that doesn’t happen without zaps IMO so I’m sensitive to anything that discourages it.
I also value the quality of good pattern recognition in people looking out for NOSTR quality so if you’re seeing a pattern that seems disingenuous, time will tell and I’ll happily acknowledge your call out.
I appreciate your time and thoughtfulness here. You’ve made me think differently about my position on conviction so I’m very much grateful to you for the time and exchange.
@Noshole is funny af. My favorite Noshole line is “purple pill your wife, bitch!” And also, that story about how @:P wouldn’t fix the damn sink, “this sat stacking mother fucker…” 😆
All good. I was saying we disagree in the sense of the discussion, not in my ability to say what I want.
I too would love Nostr to succeed, and that's why I join in these discussions. Zaps *could* be a good motivator, but I've yet to see it be more than a game people play for the most part. In the past we've seen $boost & buzzbot which were attempts to use zaps to create engagement, and they both lasted for a short while before fizzling out, without making a change to the landscape of Nostr.
I think it's not the zaps, but the incredibly small audience that is the reason more journalists and creators aren't here. It's a hard problem to solve, as they already have established audiences, and are already being payed on other platforms that they know how to use and are comfortable with. Convincing them to give up that audience & monetary incentive is a hard sell, especially when combined with having to give them the orange pill at the same time. Even adding in another social to the mix is tough, when Nostr is still so rough around the edges and different from the others, for such a small audience. The time spent learning might not seem worth it in their eyes, doubly so if there content isn't Bitcoin adjacent.
Got it. Thank you and agreed on all of this.
Businesses accepting Bitcoin here in the circular economy feels like it has potential to normalize large zaps that are meaningful enough to get other businesses to join. I’m working on that as much as I can.
I reply to them occasionally, as zaps are literally the only way I can obtain Bitcoin (very long story, not interested in getting into it again), but I also agree that it does feel like the people who jump onto those tend to not ever use Nostr for anything except gathering sats. I've intentionally turned down all but one of the ones I've seen since coming back to Nostr, simply because I was gone for a while and it didn't feel right to mooch off of that if I haven't been active.
This is the most attention-whore post I’ve read on Nostr. We’ve got a global traction in diapers, and one of the most beautiful things about it is the reciprocity of the ZAP. If someone wants to hand out zaps for interactions, for memes, or just because they feel like it — who are we to judge? Let people be happy however they want or can. If you can’t handle that, there’s always the “MUTE” button.
BTW, I zapped all the interactions here! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Nostr without giving something (ZAP) is nothing, People again go decentralised
Honestly, I left X for #nostr because of Value for my content/comment
#nostr is free for everyone
It is V4V #befree
#asknostr like if you agree 🫡
*most* people.
There are people who do just want to make funny bullshit, post it on a platform which the rest of the internet hasn't found yet, and make it weirder/greater/funnier. She hasn't used a single online social platform besides Nostr before, and has the courage to actually put out videos and shit doxxing herself when 90% of us don't have the courage to even do that!
Her outgoing zaps are pretty generous I find in a time where no one wants to zap. She's given as much as she's been given as well, I like that alot.
What's great about Nostr I thought was that it gives 100% of the power to the creator, allowing them to take their social graph and audience with them. Remember you're totally free to just mute her too.
But yeah enough on this. Let's agree to disagree? :D
Sure 🙄
I've spent lots of my own time helping new users, creating how-to's, answering questions in asknostr (like I did for you yesterday), and creating original content to post. What have you done?
Humour is subjective, so some may not enjoy it. Judging by how often her notes are zapped, and commented on it seems like a lot do though. I've always found her pleasant to talk to.
