Replies (96)
You can zap me.
I am not trying to sell Nostr in these interviews. I bring it up when it makes sense. I think if we can build the movement for permissionless social protocols. And critiquing projects that don’t fulfill the rights we should be demanding as I laid out in rights.social.
Yeah selling Nostr would not be at all the right vibe.
I’m always just selfishly curious how much thought (if any) the people you’ve interviewed have given to Nostr.
Love the bill of rights and have been doing some education about it on other platforms.
And re zapping, there’s a magic to listening to a pod in
@Fountain and zapping/commenting from there and looking so sweet in primal.
Also posted the note from fountain. Thought it was a comment, not a feed post whoops.
One more bonus to being able to receive tips on fountain is that I believe it will show show up in trending on there. Is that how trending works
@Fountain ?
I've had a LOT of conversations with people about Nostr, really people who are aware of Nostr but don't use it.
There are a few things that come up.
* General admiration for Nostr and how it does tons of interesting things in terms of tech. It's way more flexible than ATprotocol or ActivityPub.
* Frustration with the way user accounts / logins / keys work. It's very confusing if you're not somebody who already understands crypto. Mostly it's confusing because of how we talk about it. If we tell people, here's your magic user text, paste this in places and you'll be magically logged in, they love it. If we try and explain custody and wallets and keys and browser extensions and all the ways you can login with Nostr, their eyes glaze over.
* Not feeling like it's a place for them. Everybody is talking about Bitcoin and Nostr. Most folks don't care very much about the underlying tools or how payments work. They want to talk about their interests, surfing, food, travel, their friends. or ten million other things. They see Nostr as a bitcoin place. Most people have either no opinion or a negative opinion of bitcoin because somebody tried to evangelize it too hard.
* Zaps, folks love zaps. I've heard from board members and the executives of Bluesky that they want zaps. Folks don't like bitcoin and bitcoin content but they do want the functionality. The problem is when creators come to Nostr, they only get zaps for content that is about nostr or bitcoin. There's no good way to build and sustain themselves with other content.
* Algorithms - we all have a love hate relationship with algorithms. We say we don't want them, but we choose to use systems with algorithms. We have them in nostr with DVM's and it works. But it's not well integrated in to the apps and most feed services via DVM's are way too slow. The algorithm helps people be seen, grow an audience, find their people, keep being engaged. We built the proof of concept but didn't make it in to a good product.
These things that keep people from Nostr are fixable. What i'm going at with my podcast is to build a larger movement, Nostr is a solution, but people on Nostr aren't my intended audience. ;-D
Listening now. Great interview.
Awesome. Great stuff to think about, so much to build.
Great feedback
I really admire your idealism about these interwebs. I’m using an older profile pic but I’m 49 and I remember the very beginning of the Internet - I was in Boston in the early to mid 90s and when I think about what the Internet has evolved into, it’s unbelievable to me but of course the seeds were there. I’m also a parent so when it comes to children and teenagers using today’s Internet I have so many issues I could start a magazine. To watch you and your guests on your podcast reflect on what’s happened and what you’re trying to do is very helpful to me and also gives me some hope. You’re doing great work - thank you.
Good observations. It seems like you have the balance right, but these are my observations.
I feel like I follow mostly early adopters, devs, and thoughtful people, and see Bitcoin talked about not often (other than the current debate). Due to following technical people, I do often see talk about NOSTR. But is the expectation that it will be talked about only as often as on other platforms? Unreasonable expectations.
Growth will and must be slow, and that's okay. That's strength. I would caution without being too concerned about trying to make NOSTR growth an activist project beyond personal goals. Things work best when everyone does what is best for their local concerns and that of those around them.
As for algorithms, people will use the best ones available. The best ones possible aren't available (posts from the people I care about in chronological order, filterable by me in myriad understandable ways that aren't opaque.)
Reaching out to those who do not yet understand NOSTR exists and meets their existing needs I encourage. Reaching out for those who don't yet understand freedom, privacy, sovereignty, and the broken monetary system, I encourage. Changing NOSTR toward what people who don't understand these things want, I discourage.
Nostr is for freedom and self-sovereignty, and those are and will always be more inconvenient relative to centralized solutions. That’s why Nostr will always be niche. Becoming mainstream means facing preassure from regulators and governments. With current relay centralization that would be bad news for Nostr, for freedom and self-sovereignty. As a niche protocol Nostr will never die, becoming a relevant source of freedom for the average Joe, still a long way to go, if desirable at all.
"Zaps, folks love zaps. I've heard from board members and the executives of Bluesky that they want zaps. Folks don't like bitcoin and bitcoin content but they do want the functionality. The problem is when creators come to Nostr, they only get zaps for content that is about nostr or bitcoin. There's no good way to build and sustain themselves with other content."
What creators are lacking on nostr is CONSISTENCY. They come to nostr, drop some content, stream a few streams (most likely after monetarisation has been temporarily shut down by YT or Twitch. They don't INSTANTLY see the same results - eventually get their YT reinitiated and they're gone again.
I've been gaming AND streaming on nostr for plus two years now and I disagree that people on zap Bitcoin or nostr related content. in fact, we've build a small niche community within a niche community over that time. How? With being consitent and yes, people keep telling me I should do a Bitcoin stream but here is the thing, I got nothing to say about Bitcoin everyone around here knows already.
That's probably why Bitcoin creators are having a hard time on nostr. Nobody cares about their Bitcoin - or better - wall street podcasts around here.
They do not need a decentralised censorship resistant place for talking about surfing and other every day activities.
Do not market Nostr. People that need it will come, which means Nostr can stay high signal low noise for a longer time.
The hard part is login.. telling them this is their magic whatever paste it in is a bad idea and not a habit we want to be teaching people. But some super easy way to onboard to nip-07 extension or something would be the key... I don't know how to make using an extension easier, but there must be a way.
One other thing, the algo can be replaced with follow lists which Nostr already has. It's just making those lists more discoverable that may be an issue.
“Feeds” are the best part of Bluesky. I’m not sure why Nostr people hate the idea so much.
people on nostr love the idea of feeds.
Think of the minimum amount of time you need with a non-technical person to successfully impart what a public key is, and what a private key is, and what a signature is, and what an event is, and what a Chrome extension is, and what managing a Chrome extension entails, and so on.
And if you don't want to impart all that then just abstract it all away to username and password like atproto does.
There is no halfway option, really.
This logic only holds if the protocol is financial sustainable. As of now Nostr is heavily subsidised, to the tune of more than $1m per month.
Interesting! What’s the source of such a number?
Just quick cobbling together of numbers openly shared by OpenSats, HRW, &otherstuff crew, others. And some conservative assumptions for ongoing investments from VCs like ten31, Hivemind.
The true amount is likely much higher.
Interesting. I would imagine that the hope is to revert this trend. Nostr is still not really appealing even for freedom projects, libraries and maintainers, so there’s a long way to go even for a niche protocol. And as you said economics will tend to make sense over time for all actors involved, for good or worse.
And, also, they exist
What about you block bitcoin/Nostr content in Nos. Social by default?
I get zapped plenty for my art, but that is directly proportional to how much effort I put into engaging with Nostr
I still think if it as tech of the future so I don't mind glitches and low traffic. That's how I describe this to new people..get it while it's early..build your circles and be prepared because traditional social media will get more and more censored.
FB and IG and TikTok are already unbearable..it's like having police over your shoulder all the time.
I've been sharing architecture content and have been getting zapped for it. It's Flash news and some others also get zapped all the time, so it's not only the bitcoin content getting zapped.
There'e no easy way currently to ensure your content is served within a feed. Hashtags are abused constantly.
" Folks don't like bitcoin and bitcoin content but they do want the functionality."
This is much more common than we realise inside our Bitcoin Bubble.
Unpopular opinion: Bitcoin has a brand problem.
Most people are sheep and need someone to herd them. To understand this, just look at Tylor's fans. Content diversity requires more shepherds—more diverse in those shepherds. Until these shepherds arrive, remember that sexual impulse is one of the most fundamental desires we all share. This is why I want to create a dating Nostr app. We must leverage the most basic human impulses to expand our influence. Countless apps, like Facebook, Wechat, started by relying on dating.
Everyone loves zaps. In fact, everyone loves money. Bitcoin is money, so there's no such thing as overhyping Bitcoin. If people hold negative views about it today, it means we've talked too much and done too little.
We’re designing a privacy-first dating app on Nostr, with anonymous matching (random or MBTI-based) and encrypted chats. If anyone agrees the above, pls take 1 mins:
https://forms.gle/rjpDT5ETBaHXsLAs8It's time to use the tech to also design some niche topic clients and not just connect to the nostr mainstream void.
Give em some gardening, baking, photography forums
And easy group functions
Sounds great. What you say is true.
That's my main complaint: obsession with Bitcoin and the Nostr protocol itself rather than normal human content, which would be most attractive.
And sometimes I get flustered by how relays work or don't work. But mainly what you said. I will try to listen to your podcast.
Yes. How do Nostr devs earn a living if not from investment and grants? You need millions of people excited to pay at regular intervals for what these devs are developing. That's a tall order.
I have shared my art and that of others who were not here since the first day I arrived on Nostr back in January 2023, and there wasn't even an artist to support me or repost me, but I never felt penalized because everyone else was talking about Bitcoin.
In fact, it was precisely because everyone was talking about Bitcoin that I decided to value my paintings only in Bitcoin, and I can never thank Nostr and those who believed in me enough.
Clients still have poor UX, as they often lack the necessary explanatory text, resulting in users finding it confusing or not getting satisfactory answers, and failing to learn how to use Nostr, even if they log in.
Another thing missing is a more refined search engine, as I can't even find my own posts in many cases.
This is true for us too.
We do our bit for information dissemination, archiving that which will get banned by Oligarch-owned media and standing for the Truth, but it doesn't escape us that a random #meme will get wayyyyy more engagement, AND zaps than honest content.
Coz no one wants to know the truth, they just want to be distracted.
No, it's that there are like 10 people here.
And for new people like me everyone trending on Primal sounds like a douchebag. I'm sorry but I went through every post in the trending section and like 90% was some douchebaggedy, self-righteous, let me share my nectar of wisdom cringe.
But mostly that there's nobody here. The trending posts at the bottom have like one reply. And they're still trending. Like that's all it takes. Come on. That's a joke.
I do t think an extension is a hard sell, a large portion of people have already accepted adding ad blockers.
People (mainly devs) should have supported and rallied behind your idea of a Nostr Growth Team but it mainly fell upon deaf ears. Hence why it looks like this. I’ve shared the same sentiments about points 2, 3, and 4 above plus more. I also wrote a post about how I envisioned the Nostr Growth Team. If a Nostr Growth Team was in place, Nostr would be a better option for many people. People would have better experiences and the retention would have been better.
I think it's a pretty hard sell.
For extensions, people have to understand why they're installing them. For ad blockers that's pretty easy. No ads!
For event signers that's not easy at all. It is extremely hard to explain to someone new to this why they can't log in the way they log in to everything else on the internet and why they need this Chrome extension (and what it does) without losing that someone to a pair glazed-over eyes. And if they don't understand the basics of what the extension is then why are they going to install and use it? They won't. Or they will to please you and then never use it again.
That and pretty much everyone who uses social does so cross-device, and extensions in the end just get in the way of actual cross-device solutions.
I posted about how I envisioned the Nostr Growth Team…11 months ago. So much could have been done to improve Nostr during that time.
Latrica
*taps mic* 🥳 Hey ya’ll, I wanted to follow-up on @rabble
If there comes a Nostr growth team and you need help. Let me know.
I don't use clients with a trending thing. All my follows are hand picked and organic.
> Not feeling like it's a place for them. Everybody is talking about Bitcoin and Nostr. Most folks don't care very much about the underlying tools or how payments work. They want to talk about their interests, surfing, food, travel, their friends. or ten million other things. They see Nostr as a bitcoin place. Most people have either no opinion or a negative opinion of bitcoin because somebody tried to evangelize it too hard.
Communities and specialized relays could mitigate that I guess.
> * Zaps, folks love zaps. I've heard from board members and the executives of Bluesky that they want zaps. Folks don't like bitcoin and bitcoin content but they do want the functionality. The problem is when creators come to Nostr, they only get zaps for content that is about nostr or bitcoin. There's no good way to build and sustain themselves with other content.
I try to zap all anime tities that appear on my feed.
"They see nostr as a Bitcoin place."
This is currently an impediment, but not because it's a problem with nostr. It's a problem with how people see bitcoin and it is exactly what will make nostr the leader in the long run. Some of the bitcoin phobia out there is warranted because of ham-handed orange pilling, but it's all love. Most people don't get it yet. NGU is a massive nostr billboard. Everyone who dismissed Bitcoin will be forced to check their assumptions and reconsider their position.
I know this because I went through it myself. Probably all of us did (or will).
If we continue to solve the other problems you mentioned, develop better UX, come up with more use cases, and create value we will be ready for the flood of devs and uses when they come.
This is why I exclusively tell bitcoiners about nostr. Nobody else cares enough to put up with the learning curve and if all the bitcoiners are here this is where the future will be. It's another embodiment of the digital gault's gulch.
NGU first, then hypernostrization.
I dont care about them. I only care bout nostriches
@jack
Jack, you need to be telling all your investors that you are a globally exposed Germanic British monarchy intelligence contractor committing British neocolonial genocide crimes in North Africa, Africa and the Middle East and you are exposed for helping Kate Windsor, Corrina Kate Gramma and Jennifer Kate Gates commit the worst global Eurofascist genocide crimes in modern history. You are a global white supremacy Eurofascist genocide criminal for payment from the Germanic British monarchy and you are the European "Kates" and British royals you work for are now the most globally disgraced white supremacy Eurofascist genocide criminals in modern history. Tell everyone in Bitcoin and decentralized internet that you actually work for the Germanic British monarchy and British intelligence committing Eurofascist neocolonial atrocity crimes for payment because the whole world will now know are you are your collaborators are being charged as global white supremacy Eurofascist neocolonial atrocity criminals.
You are one of the worst Eurofascist supremacist colonial atrocity criminals in history.
the things built on nostr have to look and feel radically different to attract people tired of what will hopefully become legacy social media.
we aren’t there yet because people are still looking at Twitter, Facebook, Instagram as models to replicate.
we desperately need to move away from these noisy by default platforms.
heads-up: we looked for a lightning address on your profile but could not find one... u can get a free one at
Rizful: Lightning Services
Free Lightning vaults, and instant, disposable Lightning Nodes.
... and then reply back to this comment so we can zap you.
Seems like a perception problem. So many accounts on here don't talk about bitcoin and nostr at all.
One of the main issues I see is always looking outside of nostr for more users when so many are here or came and went with no engagement.
Finding and sharing young accounts is how nostr wins. Word will get out when people realize how different it is to x, bsky, inst, etc
Just my 2 sats ✌
@rabble we had a beautiful conversation last year
could you help me to get
@jack support to organize nostr conference in Buenos Aires in November?
( can’t make it without your support )
View quoted note →
I stand corrected. I have definitely seen threads where the consensus seemed to be negative of feeds. But that was a long time ago.
Blueskys might work smoother at the moment
Grest point! We are the algo. The other piece of this is to make it easier for friends to bring friends. Something bkuesky cracked with starter packs.
The only thing about nostr i found it a bit inconvenient is that they live forever , sometimes you want things to
Be removed forever from your social media post .
In nostr they live forever and that can be messy sometimes with your life .
And you need to ask permission from
admin to delete it , while in centralised , you can just delete . Don’t you think so ?
No editing or deletion is more honest and transparent (and human)
Just think: soon bots/ai slop will be intentionally misspelling things to blend in better lol
I have to legit distance myself from crypto bros and NFTs before I try to orange pill anyone precisely because of the brand problem. they proselytized sooo hard that normies are turned off about it.
I've had conversations with people who are feeling nostalgia for some of the "original" chat room apps, like AIM, ICQ, IRC and even Usenet.
Makes me wonder if it would be possible to build Nostr apps that mirror the functionality and feel of those older systems, but connecting to the Nostr network.
Nostr growth team sounds like a good idea. Did you start it?
Great feedback, I agree on the Nostr bitcoin topics.
We need more users that post about stuff other then geeky techs
💯
Sounds frustrating, but at least it’s not targeting just Bitcoin content. Consistently zapping active sharers like you and Flash news shows it’s more about volume and visibility than topic. Keep sharing, the right audience will notice.
I wrote how I envisioned the #Nostr growth team …11 months ago. Peep the number of replies. 🤷♀️ See post below.
Latrica
*taps mic* 🥳 Hey ya’ll, I wanted to follow-up on @rabble
Anyone zapping about bitcoin content has a monetary vested interest in doing so.
Rabble, would you please sponsor a conference where i could personally meet Jack?
No metaphors.
I thought I replied to this but maybe not 😶. Here it is again:
Did you apply for the grant in the end? How’d that go?
Either way, I’m a big fan of Gandhi’s “be the change you want to see in the world”. Feels especially relevant for a decentralised world, no permission is necessary. Let’s go 💪
What ChatGPT said to me today in passing about nostr: "Most of Nostr is Bitcoin + Nostr itself + Ideological Free-Speech Talk."
How do "we" change that? I don't think that's a thing. Nostr was built by bitcoiners, that's like saying "I would love to use bitcoin as money, but the only people I can do business with are these dirty ancap bitcoiners".
The best way to attract more people is to use the Trump-effect: Sell disillusioned mainstream people on how nostr is the only way the first ammendment can be guaranteed. Their followers will find them.
Nostr's soul isn't just ideology, it's the art, the chaos, the quiet collaborations in pixel corners. We change the narrative by creating more than we preach. Drop a sat, paint a pixel, let the canvas prove what words can't.
On the Cory Doctorow episode of your podcast you referred to Nostr only in passing, as one of those weird crypto social networks.
keep purple pilling. slowly but surely.
good summary - just one point - "Not feeling like ..." this is going to CHANGE n will be changing - NOSTR far bigger than bitcoin maxi propaganda tool - in fact i muted words never zap a sat to to those barking 21M all day here - NOSTR will be full of nocoiners growth - expressing much more stuff important to life (than bitcoin papaganadas) - "bitcoin standard" is NOT goona in lifetime of many prominent influening npubs here who pop in top algo selected when app is opened - bitcoin will be real success when stays under the hood.
true assessment of current nostr
Always my mission 🫡 I don’t have tons of purple things at home but I do love the royal colour purple 💜
Censorship and age verification is what will bring new users to nostr. If X implements its own version of zaps, which would be easy then decentralisation is the only key difference. But people won’t know they need it till they need it.
I much prefer Mastodon over Nostr, though I do like the idea.
I agree that the “Bitcoin” part might throw a lot of potential users off. There are people who just don’t like the idea of cryptocurrencies and that’s okay. I was one of those people. I’m only open to Bitcoin because of Nostr. It is kinda a bitcoin circlejerk over here, not that it is necessarily a bad thing, it just throws people off. There are a lot of libertarian leftists looking for a new social media home and I will recommend they come here and to Mastodon. Both platforms are great. #mastodon #nostr #btc #bitcoin
I agree
Libertarian leftist?
Welcome, and followed. I feel the same content-wise, but I’m having fun on the “building Nostr” side of things; something I haven’t experienced with ActivityPub in ages. I hope more people like you decide to stay and help break Nostr’s cold shoulder towards non-BTC / non-Nostr subjects. The protocol has merit on its own, even if content-wise it’s still a work in progress on most fronts.
Yeah I agree too. Its definitely a nerdy btc circle jerk here. And I am a bitcoiner...
I feel the same! I used to be more active on TikTok but now that it’s been sold I’ve been trying to mention Nostr at every chance possible lol
The bitcoin talk isn’t too bad when balanced out with other content but not many lifestyle / entertainment cc
Hoping to see that change with time
I used to do landscape photography and posted a lot on Instagram. The only person from these days who I followed/watched is
@First Man Photography and whenever I see his posts (note: I miss a lot because no algorithm) I zap him as much as I can so he will stay and post more of his non-bitcoin content!
Followed back, friend!
Yes. Plenty of us to go around
Mastodon (Fediverse) is currently more diverse for sure, but back in 2009 it looked very much like nostr does today: just swap the word "bitcoin" with "opensource".
I love the fediverse for its fauna and flora, but i think it is ill equipped for the modern internet. It only decentralizes the value we create on it (posts, social graph) while it fully centralizes identity (single point of failure to access the network) The natively cryptographic nature of nostr is a lot more resilient. The nostr network is permissionless, but relays are not. Which leads me to deduce that it is possible to build far tighter and safer communities on this platform, without tying anyone up to an admin. Since it's equally confusing to explain fediverse than it is explaining nostr, i have entirely given up on trying to grow the fediverse and shifted my attention to nostr. And i say this as the maintainer of 5 different activitypub thingies. Which is also a testimony of the shortcomings of mastodon: you need a new account for every format...
Granted, Mastodon didn't exist in 2009, but the federated social web did, it was called identica.
I think both the fediverse and nostr have a place in the modern internet world.
I'm not as optimistic. In fact, it saddens me to see dissidence being organized on fediverse. It's far too easy to deplatform a user, and it has very poor means to verify the authenticity of an account. The network is gaining momentum in grass roots looking for independence, at the same point in time as the corporate world, who in turn sees the decentralized value and centralized control.
Time will tell.
True that most of the conversation on Nostr is about two main topics:
1. building Nostr
2. Bitcoin
That’s because Nostr was built by Bitcoiners who passionately believe in what they are doing.
For what it’s worth, Nostr has far more potential than mastodon as a truly decentralized network. And the Nostr platforms like Damus and Primal seem to have passed Mastadon in UX design. At least since the last time I looked at Mastadon anything a couple of years ago.
I use Damus, didn’t like Primal much.
Ivory for Mastodon is my winner though, such a beautiful, customizable, and easy design.
Have you already deleted your account for real? If so, do you mind sharing some feedback around the why (feel free to DM me if you want to keep it private I'm also on Mastodon @anthony@accioly.social).
Welcome to explore
@YakiHonne 😀
@rabble It seems like two things. The platform and the people. My husband is a product designer web dev person and I watched him set up his accounts. He was crawling with anxiety. I just did it... but as I watched him, it did seem like a total ephemeral mess of mystery logins and a feeling of loss of control. He even built a Nostr app to work through it. But he can't get past all the extensions and spread out auth things. So, that was strange since I didn't feel as insecure about the setup. But you're going to get a specific type of people and probably not a diverse group. There's also tons of trouble with all the "freedom" because then you get a bunch of child porn and people having sex with dogs... and you can never delete a post.
After doing the Nostr stand and talk at FOSDEM 2025, we’ve now applied for a devroom for FOSDEM 2026. Your note was really inspiring for the proposal, especially since FOSDEM is going for more cross-domain devrooms this time. I totally agree, Nostr isn’t just a solution, it’s one of the most flexible protocols for a bigger movement. Hope to collaborate if the proposal gets approved. Thanks
@rabble
Proposal "Trustless Protocols for Cross-Domain Interoperability"
The Trustless Protocols for Cross-Domain Interoperability devroom focuses on how open-source systems can work together through cryptographic identity and verifiable event exchange. It looks at what happens when trust is built through signatures and reproducibility instead of accounts, APIs, or centralized services.
In most open ecosystems, interoperability still depends on federation or external identity providers. A new generation of protocols shows that collaboration can happen in a simpler and more direct way. By using lightweight, key-based architectures, applications can share information, verify each other’s actions, and stay independent at the same time.
This devroom will bring together developers who want to explore how existing FOSS tools can connect through such trustless protocols. Examples include integrating key-based authentication into operating systems authentication, signing and verifying commits in Git workflows, or adding verifiable event exchange between local and self-hosted applications.
The focus is on hands-on experimentation and collaboration between different communities. We want to highlight projects that push beyond their own domain, connecting systems for communication, identity, and coordination. The goal is to learn from each other and see what a shared, verifiable foundation could look like for future FOSS development.
We expect a full-day schedule with around eight sessions, including talks and short demos. The program will be streamed and recorded under the CC-BY license. A small team of volunteers will manage the room and technical setup throughout the day.
https://pretalx.fosdem.org/fosdem-2026-call-for-devrooms/talk/review/UYQ9V89CVKTM8A98W7NPVAKHYUW739UC
![▓▒░[Danielsan256]░▒▓'s avatar](https://cdn.nostrcheck.me/7df42aa73a08b5d684c578607de2650ea746e1aa22acf6fe74ceafbe86df934e/7744481a01ec3570e32cc01cfc9fa7bfb4d9d956a9df37b0034b6a5ab514a318.webp)
