I've had a LOT of conversations with people about Nostr, really people who are aware of Nostr but don't use it.
There are a few things that come up.
* General admiration for Nostr and how it does tons of interesting things in terms of tech. It's way more flexible than ATprotocol or ActivityPub.
* Frustration with the way user accounts / logins / keys work. It's very confusing if you're not somebody who already understands crypto. Mostly it's confusing because of how we talk about it. If we tell people, here's your magic user text, paste this in places and you'll be magically logged in, they love it. If we try and explain custody and wallets and keys and browser extensions and all the ways you can login with Nostr, their eyes glaze over.
* Not feeling like it's a place for them. Everybody is talking about Bitcoin and Nostr. Most folks don't care very much about the underlying tools or how payments work. They want to talk about their interests, surfing, food, travel, their friends. or ten million other things. They see Nostr as a bitcoin place. Most people have either no opinion or a negative opinion of bitcoin because somebody tried to evangelize it too hard.
* Zaps, folks love zaps. I've heard from board members and the executives of Bluesky that they want zaps. Folks don't like bitcoin and bitcoin content but they do want the functionality. The problem is when creators come to Nostr, they only get zaps for content that is about nostr or bitcoin. There's no good way to build and sustain themselves with other content.
* Algorithms - we all have a love hate relationship with algorithms. We say we don't want them, but we choose to use systems with algorithms. We have them in nostr with DVM's and it works. But it's not well integrated in to the apps and most feed services via DVM's are way too slow. The algorithm helps people be seen, grow an audience, find their people, keep being engaged. We built the proof of concept but didn't make it in to a good product.
These things that keep people from Nostr are fixable. What i'm going at with my podcast is to build a larger movement, Nostr is a solution, but people on Nostr aren't my intended audience. ;-D
Replies (46)
Awesome. Great stuff to think about, so much to build.
Great feedback
I really admire your idealism about these interwebs. I’m using an older profile pic but I’m 49 and I remember the very beginning of the Internet - I was in Boston in the early to mid 90s and when I think about what the Internet has evolved into, it’s unbelievable to me but of course the seeds were there. I’m also a parent so when it comes to children and teenagers using today’s Internet I have so many issues I could start a magazine. To watch you and your guests on your podcast reflect on what’s happened and what you’re trying to do is very helpful to me and also gives me some hope. You’re doing great work - thank you.
Good observations. It seems like you have the balance right, but these are my observations.
I feel like I follow mostly early adopters, devs, and thoughtful people, and see Bitcoin talked about not often (other than the current debate). Due to following technical people, I do often see talk about NOSTR. But is the expectation that it will be talked about only as often as on other platforms? Unreasonable expectations.
Growth will and must be slow, and that's okay. That's strength. I would caution without being too concerned about trying to make NOSTR growth an activist project beyond personal goals. Things work best when everyone does what is best for their local concerns and that of those around them.
As for algorithms, people will use the best ones available. The best ones possible aren't available (posts from the people I care about in chronological order, filterable by me in myriad understandable ways that aren't opaque.)
Reaching out to those who do not yet understand NOSTR exists and meets their existing needs I encourage. Reaching out for those who don't yet understand freedom, privacy, sovereignty, and the broken monetary system, I encourage. Changing NOSTR toward what people who don't understand these things want, I discourage.
Nostr is for freedom and self-sovereignty, and those are and will always be more inconvenient relative to centralized solutions. That’s why Nostr will always be niche. Becoming mainstream means facing preassure from regulators and governments. With current relay centralization that would be bad news for Nostr, for freedom and self-sovereignty. As a niche protocol Nostr will never die, becoming a relevant source of freedom for the average Joe, still a long way to go, if desirable at all.
"Zaps, folks love zaps. I've heard from board members and the executives of Bluesky that they want zaps. Folks don't like bitcoin and bitcoin content but they do want the functionality. The problem is when creators come to Nostr, they only get zaps for content that is about nostr or bitcoin. There's no good way to build and sustain themselves with other content."
What creators are lacking on nostr is CONSISTENCY. They come to nostr, drop some content, stream a few streams (most likely after monetarisation has been temporarily shut down by YT or Twitch. They don't INSTANTLY see the same results - eventually get their YT reinitiated and they're gone again.
I've been gaming AND streaming on nostr for plus two years now and I disagree that people on zap Bitcoin or nostr related content. in fact, we've build a small niche community within a niche community over that time. How? With being consitent and yes, people keep telling me I should do a Bitcoin stream but here is the thing, I got nothing to say about Bitcoin everyone around here knows already.
That's probably why Bitcoin creators are having a hard time on nostr. Nobody cares about their Bitcoin - or better - wall street podcasts around here.
They do not need a decentralised censorship resistant place for talking about surfing and other every day activities.
Do not market Nostr. People that need it will come, which means Nostr can stay high signal low noise for a longer time.
The hard part is login.. telling them this is their magic whatever paste it in is a bad idea and not a habit we want to be teaching people. But some super easy way to onboard to nip-07 extension or something would be the key... I don't know how to make using an extension easier, but there must be a way.
One other thing, the algo can be replaced with follow lists which Nostr already has. It's just making those lists more discoverable that may be an issue.
“Feeds” are the best part of Bluesky. I’m not sure why Nostr people hate the idea so much.
What about you block bitcoin/Nostr content in Nos. Social by default?
I get zapped plenty for my art, but that is directly proportional to how much effort I put into engaging with Nostr
I still think if it as tech of the future so I don't mind glitches and low traffic. That's how I describe this to new people..get it while it's early..build your circles and be prepared because traditional social media will get more and more censored.
FB and IG and TikTok are already unbearable..it's like having police over your shoulder all the time.
I've been sharing architecture content and have been getting zapped for it. It's Flash news and some others also get zapped all the time, so it's not only the bitcoin content getting zapped.
" Folks don't like bitcoin and bitcoin content but they do want the functionality."
This is much more common than we realise inside our Bitcoin Bubble.
Unpopular opinion: Bitcoin has a brand problem.
Great points right here 👇
View quoted note →Most people are sheep and need someone to herd them. To understand this, just look at Tylor's fans. Content diversity requires more shepherds—more diverse in those shepherds. Until these shepherds arrive, remember that sexual impulse is one of the most fundamental desires we all share. This is why I want to create a dating Nostr app. We must leverage the most basic human impulses to expand our influence. Countless apps, like Facebook, Wechat, started by relying on dating.
Everyone loves zaps. In fact, everyone loves money. Bitcoin is money, so there's no such thing as overhyping Bitcoin. If people hold negative views about it today, it means we've talked too much and done too little.
We’re designing a privacy-first dating app on Nostr, with anonymous matching (random or MBTI-based) and encrypted chats. If anyone agrees the above, pls take 1 mins:
https://forms.gle/rjpDT5ETBaHXsLAs8It's time to use the tech to also design some niche topic clients and not just connect to the nostr mainstream void.
Give em some gardening, baking, photography forums
And easy group functions
Sounds great. What you say is true.
That's my main complaint: obsession with Bitcoin and the Nostr protocol itself rather than normal human content, which would be most attractive.
And sometimes I get flustered by how relays work or don't work. But mainly what you said. I will try to listen to your podcast.
Clients still have poor UX, as they often lack the necessary explanatory text, resulting in users finding it confusing or not getting satisfactory answers, and failing to learn how to use Nostr, even if they log in.
Another thing missing is a more refined search engine, as I can't even find my own posts in many cases.
This is true for us too.
We do our bit for information dissemination, archiving that which will get banned by Oligarch-owned media and standing for the Truth, but it doesn't escape us that a random #meme will get wayyyyy more engagement, AND zaps than honest content.
Coz no one wants to know the truth, they just want to be distracted.
People (mainly devs) should have supported and rallied behind your idea of a Nostr Growth Team but it mainly fell upon deaf ears. Hence why it looks like this. I’ve shared the same sentiments about points 2, 3, and 4 above plus more. I also wrote a post about how I envisioned the Nostr Growth Team. If a Nostr Growth Team was in place, Nostr would be a better option for many people. People would have better experiences and the retention would have been better.
If there comes a Nostr growth team and you need help. Let me know.
> Not feeling like it's a place for them. Everybody is talking about Bitcoin and Nostr. Most folks don't care very much about the underlying tools or how payments work. They want to talk about their interests, surfing, food, travel, their friends. or ten million other things. They see Nostr as a bitcoin place. Most people have either no opinion or a negative opinion of bitcoin because somebody tried to evangelize it too hard.
Communities and specialized relays could mitigate that I guess.
> * Zaps, folks love zaps. I've heard from board members and the executives of Bluesky that they want zaps. Folks don't like bitcoin and bitcoin content but they do want the functionality. The problem is when creators come to Nostr, they only get zaps for content that is about nostr or bitcoin. There's no good way to build and sustain themselves with other content.
I try to zap all anime tities that appear on my feed.
"They see nostr as a Bitcoin place."
This is currently an impediment, but not because it's a problem with nostr. It's a problem with how people see bitcoin and it is exactly what will make nostr the leader in the long run. Some of the bitcoin phobia out there is warranted because of ham-handed orange pilling, but it's all love. Most people don't get it yet. NGU is a massive nostr billboard. Everyone who dismissed Bitcoin will be forced to check their assumptions and reconsider their position.
I know this because I went through it myself. Probably all of us did (or will).
If we continue to solve the other problems you mentioned, develop better UX, come up with more use cases, and create value we will be ready for the flood of devs and uses when they come.
This is why I exclusively tell bitcoiners about nostr. Nobody else cares enough to put up with the learning curve and if all the bitcoiners are here this is where the future will be. It's another embodiment of the digital gault's gulch.
NGU first, then hypernostrization.
I dont care about them. I only care bout nostriches
the things built on nostr have to look and feel radically different to attract people tired of what will hopefully become legacy social media.
we aren’t there yet because people are still looking at Twitter, Facebook, Instagram as models to replicate.
we desperately need to move away from these noisy by default platforms.
Everything here is true, I've been talking about "owning your content" and "using websites" on TikTok and it's been doing pretty well.
People are really interested in the BENEFITS of nostr, and I find that ONLY referencing the benefits (not the tech/protocol) works best. When they ask, "how does this work?" then I go into nostr
The btc/crypto stuff is definitely a barrier, but everyone so far has been dm'ing me about creating their own relays and their own spaces for their communities; it's been awesome.
I very much am selling nostr (not hiding that) - just indirectly.
View quoted note →Seems like a perception problem. So many accounts on here don't talk about bitcoin and nostr at all.
One of the main issues I see is always looking outside of nostr for more users when so many are here or came and went with no engagement.
Finding and sharing young accounts is how nostr wins. Word will get out when people realize how different it is to x, bsky, inst, etc
Just my 2 sats ✌
@rabble we had a beautiful conversation last year
could you help me to get
@jack support to organize nostr conference in Buenos Aires in November?
( can’t make it without your support )
View quoted note →
I've had conversations with people who are feeling nostalgia for some of the "original" chat room apps, like AIM, ICQ, IRC and even Usenet.
Makes me wonder if it would be possible to build Nostr apps that mirror the functionality and feel of those older systems, but connecting to the Nostr network.
Great feedback, I agree on the Nostr bitcoin topics.
We need more users that post about stuff other then geeky techs
Sounds frustrating, but at least it’s not targeting just Bitcoin content. Consistently zapping active sharers like you and Flash news shows it’s more about volume and visibility than topic. Keep sharing, the right audience will notice.
Anyone zapping about bitcoin content has a monetary vested interest in doing so.
Rabble, would you please sponsor a conference where i could personally meet Jack?
What ChatGPT said to me today in passing about nostr: "Most of Nostr is Bitcoin + Nostr itself + Ideological Free-Speech Talk."
How do "we" change that? I don't think that's a thing. Nostr was built by bitcoiners, that's like saying "I would love to use bitcoin as money, but the only people I can do business with are these dirty ancap bitcoiners".
The best way to attract more people is to use the Trump-effect: Sell disillusioned mainstream people on how nostr is the only way the first ammendment can be guaranteed. Their followers will find them.
On the Cory Doctorow episode of your podcast you referred to Nostr only in passing, as one of those weird crypto social networks.
keep purple pilling. slowly but surely.
good summary - just one point - "Not feeling like ..." this is going to CHANGE n will be changing - NOSTR far bigger than bitcoin maxi propaganda tool - in fact i muted words never zap a sat to to those barking 21M all day here - NOSTR will be full of nocoiners growth - expressing much more stuff important to life (than bitcoin papaganadas) - "bitcoin standard" is NOT goona in lifetime of many prominent influening npubs here who pop in top algo selected when app is opened - bitcoin will be real success when stays under the hood.
true assessment of current nostr
Censorship and age verification is what will bring new users to nostr. If X implements its own version of zaps, which would be easy then decentralisation is the only key difference. But people won’t know they need it till they need it.
I much prefer Mastodon over Nostr, though I do like the idea.
I agree that the “Bitcoin” part might throw a lot of potential users off. There are people who just don’t like the idea of cryptocurrencies and that’s okay. I was one of those people. I’m only open to Bitcoin because of Nostr. It is kinda a bitcoin circlejerk over here, not that it is necessarily a bad thing, it just throws people off. There are a lot of libertarian leftists looking for a new social media home and I will recommend they come here and to Mastodon. Both platforms are great. #mastodon #nostr #btc #bitcoin
Welcome, and followed. I feel the same content-wise, but I’m having fun on the “building Nostr” side of things; something I haven’t experienced with ActivityPub in ages. I hope more people like you decide to stay and help break Nostr’s cold shoulder towards non-BTC / non-Nostr subjects. The protocol has merit on its own, even if content-wise it’s still a work in progress on most fronts.
I used to do landscape photography and posted a lot on Instagram. The only person from these days who I followed/watched is
@First Man Photography and whenever I see his posts (note: I miss a lot because no algorithm) I zap him as much as I can so he will stay and post more of his non-bitcoin content!
@rabble It seems like two things. The platform and the people. My husband is a product designer web dev person and I watched him set up his accounts. He was crawling with anxiety. I just did it... but as I watched him, it did seem like a total ephemeral mess of mystery logins and a feeling of loss of control. He even built a Nostr app to work through it. But he can't get past all the extensions and spread out auth things. So, that was strange since I didn't feel as insecure about the setup. But you're going to get a specific type of people and probably not a diverse group. There's also tons of trouble with all the "freedom" because then you get a bunch of child porn and people having sex with dogs... and you can never delete a post.
After doing the Nostr stand and talk at FOSDEM 2025, we’ve now applied for a devroom for FOSDEM 2026. Your note was really inspiring for the proposal, especially since FOSDEM is going for more cross-domain devrooms this time. I totally agree, Nostr isn’t just a solution, it’s one of the most flexible protocols for a bigger movement. Hope to collaborate if the proposal gets approved. Thanks
@rabble
Proposal "Trustless Protocols for Cross-Domain Interoperability"
The Trustless Protocols for Cross-Domain Interoperability devroom focuses on how open-source systems can work together through cryptographic identity and verifiable event exchange. It looks at what happens when trust is built through signatures and reproducibility instead of accounts, APIs, or centralized services.
In most open ecosystems, interoperability still depends on federation or external identity providers. A new generation of protocols shows that collaboration can happen in a simpler and more direct way. By using lightweight, key-based architectures, applications can share information, verify each other’s actions, and stay independent at the same time.
This devroom will bring together developers who want to explore how existing FOSS tools can connect through such trustless protocols. Examples include integrating key-based authentication into operating systems authentication, signing and verifying commits in Git workflows, or adding verifiable event exchange between local and self-hosted applications.
The focus is on hands-on experimentation and collaboration between different communities. We want to highlight projects that push beyond their own domain, connecting systems for communication, identity, and coordination. The goal is to learn from each other and see what a shared, verifiable foundation could look like for future FOSS development.
We expect a full-day schedule with around eight sessions, including talks and short demos. The program will be streamed and recorded under the CC-BY license. A small team of volunteers will manage the room and technical setup throughout the day.
https://pretalx.fosdem.org/fosdem-2026-call-for-devrooms/talk/review/UYQ9V89CVKTM8A98W7NPVAKHYUW739UC
