Replies (103)
Also the people who should be reading this note won't see it, so what was the point?
hahahahhahaa
the ultimate circle-jerk
I'm connecting to one relay, that you don't publish to or have permission on, and I'm still reading these notes. I feel like that's got to count for a level of decentralization.
It's true, but also in nostr your reach is unavoidable. Clients will faithfully propagate the notez 🎵🎶 and somehow nostr.band uses telepathy to find some relay it never should have had a reason to see 😂
mainly because clients don't fucking work
Eventual consistency
I didn't see this
Thanks
Who will be " Relays Associations labor Union Commrade /Chairman/President " ? Jack or fiatjaf
Yes join us in glorious filth and wasted energy, join us PABZ
Always ADHERE to Presidents ORders
Elastic is design can handle more connections
IF BECOMING BIG = MEANS CENTRALIZED hence avoid that relay
Has anyone seen a list of up-and-coming relays that we could start publishing to?
I'm happy to add a few on!
#asknostr #nostr
View quoted note →Be ungovernable!
I'm still trying to figure out relays. Is the ultimate goal/solution to just have many more people running their own relays? If so, running relays would need to be A LOT easier, in my opinion.
I'm in!
Nobody can see this reply watch
i’ll do it
🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈
Those will just become the new “big relays” soon then… just moves the goalposts. It doesn’t solve the problem.
I think the current model mixed with clients as relays & outbox model as the fallback for finding the relays you need to sync with is key. 🔑
View quoted note →I’m just gonna try to build it. No use in petitioning everyone, just like with GitNestr. One thing at a time though…
If it works well people can copy it to their clients. I’m sure we’ll run into hiccups along the way. Only way to find out is by coding it & experimenting first-hand.
how do you know if a relay is big or small?
mid
until you repost your first trump video to hate on it and then smurfville starts all over again... but for a brief moment. 🎈
instead of what you hate, what is interesting or original -
Are we going to the cheapest relays that are charging sats? Or Free ones? Or Both! 😏
Currently using
https://nostr.watch to have a look around. Cya's soon!
What is considered small? I’m about as useful with tech as captain caveman but have my little Linux machine arriving next week finally and was gonna set up a relay (sorry…. Try to). Worth it?
Wine is my biggest relay.
You can see the volume/relay here:
https://stats.nostr.band/#relay_usersEven wine is completely dwarfed by stuff like nos.lol
who should be reading this?
Anyone I follow can add theforest.nostr1.com as a relay. Best relay content. Hosted by
@cloud fodder .
Thx, just did 🙏🏼
this is good. thanks for doing the analysis which lead to this.
Did you unfollow me?
If it weren't for band, I'd be completely invisible.
Current #nostr controversy. Which side will you choose. Decentralize and continue to fight censorship or going back to the same data hoarding digital giants we were running from. #relaysize #gossip
Yay, we're follow frens again. ☺️
Cant achieve decentralization through good will, only good incentives
Where is a list of small relays?
And how to discriminate good / bad relays in general, regardless the size?
REQUEST UNCLEAR.
MAYBE WE SHOULD RIP A DISPATCH TO DISCUSS THIS.
Let’s hear this discussion!
YES, THIS STUFF IS VERY IMPORTANT
Coracle lists relays and shows how many people you follow are on each. It also drops the top few to encourage network decentralization.
I pushed for this early on, butt the purple cats kept saying it was stupid and it will make the network worse. Are we still using strfry?
That's... that would be great. I see nothing here 🤔
👀
I would like to be able to publish to > 100 relays. Can this ever be possible without using a blastr?
-dle class
No, but why? Do you want to pay 100 relays to hold your notes? Broadcast is digital squatting, made possible only by taking advantage of hobbyist relay operators.
Yeah, blastr wrote my German-language notes someplace in deepest Siberia, or something.
Server operators should decisively decide what they will store, and what they will actually relay to other servers. One way to reduce server operating costs is to reduce the excessive amounts of network bandwidth consumed on retrieving duplicate notes across multiple servers. This is going to break down if users have to alacarte subscribe to multiple relays just to see the posts in their connection circles
We need broad adoption of strfry negentropy inter-relay note rectification protocol for this to work.
We need mid and small relays. Smalls talk to a few mids to limit data and rectify a smaller set of notes follows/followers of follows/followers and maybe some subscribed hash tags. Mids talk mainly to other mids and a unique groups of smalls and rectify a larger set of the follows/followers of follows/followers and hash tags of connected small relays.
I think a system with built in economics will create an incentivized, sustainable, durable, and decentralized network. Ecash attached to notes signed to relay keys is a possible economic model. Smalls collect ecash from users and pay to mids for updates. Network congestion could lead to these fees becoming dynamic. The alpha in the fees becomes the operational budget of small and mid relays. Federations of mids could group into fedimints or run their own cashu mints for settling balances and allowing lightning withdrawals.
How can you tell a relays size?
Hey, me too.
It depends on what you mean by "size". There's WoT size, which is where more people you follow post to a given relay:
There are also relay monitoring systems like nostr.watch that are working on a system for reporting how many active users are on a relay, along with other metrics.
No, very few people should be running relays. We have probably 10x more relays than we need right now. The point is that if one relay goes down or bans you, you have at least one other relay that can continue to serve all your stuff. This doesn't require self-hosting.
Self-hosting certainly doesn't hurt
tor provides government resistant backup
tor provides government resistant backup
tor provides government resistant backup
tor provides government resistant backup
I think a big part of the problem is that tech giants centralised TCP/IP to a point that big hosting companies can easily take part in censorship under the guise of regulatory pressure.
Self-hosted relays that are open are what we need - Better yet, nostr-client-intergrated-relays with meek or something of the like. No point in having multiple relays hosted by a singe company - That's still a high degree of centralisation, even if spread around the globe.
Can't remember which one it was, but I recall a desktop Nostr app with a built-in relay service, going over a tor tunnel. I have a feeling that's where Lume announced it was headed in the future - And I think that's the right step to go.
Nostr on websites is great from an accessibility perspective (hail PWAs I guess), but accessibility and censorship-resistance are not the same thing. I'd say anyone using nostr solely via websites is setting themselves up for trouble, at some point, somewhere, for some reason.
I think you're right that DNS, TLS certificates, and ISPs are all chokepoints. Maybe something like i2p bridges or something could overcome that. But that's not specific to nostr, so we have the help of the broader freedom tech community available to us.
enforced "mid" is fascism. and profoundly uninteresting. in my opinion -
How do you feel being such a hero?
Heavy is the head that wears the crown
I'm down to listen in. Let's do it.
What’s your relay list?
I’d be interested.
That’ll do it.
Thanks, Hodlbod.
YES
I wrote it.
What I meant is that my browser doesn't like 100 websockets I think.
And my phone... sheesh
Like... a.... blastr?
Btw, since I think I was first (really not sure and idgaf!), can I reappropriate the original name again?
multiplexer
Is there a relay that's also a relay proxy? Like, I throw the relay some sats and it opens those 100 websockets with appropriate filters. Maybe also a blastr? fan in: left hand. fan out: right hand. Fan in... fan out... fan in...
Any relay recommendations for noobs who want to understand how to choose?
client could also keep publishing a mempool to many relays rotating through them while the user keeps doomscrolling or something...
Coracle has a list of relays ranked by how many people you follow publish to them. nostr.watch might also be useful.
Yes please!
Don’t forget to tell the plebs how to fund stuff so it doesn’t all just go quiet.
Find!
🫂🍻
1. “Use nostr its decentralized”.
2. “Only use small relays on nostr if you want real decentralization”
3. “Only use small relays on nostr that you know …”
LET'S MAKE IT HAPPEN.
@fiatjaf tá confuso pra caralho esse bagulho 🫡
Could there be a relay list that appears when we try to add relays while setting the network of a client?!
Thank you! 🫶
https://nostr.watch is what I used. Used a bunch paid and bunch free. Tried to use different countries as much as I could.
Thanks!
That is so cool 👌🏽
We're all introverts and moving to our own private relays.
I thought we had agreed to call it "outbox"!
The relay does not matter. If want to post "forbbiden" content Just use tor before you real connection and thats it.
Time response is a good meassure
Fix it for you
*fixed
No, it isn't.
Thank you.
