HORRIBLE ADVICE.
LEARN HOW TO HOLD BITCOIN SECURELY YOURSELF.
I RECOMMEND BITKEY FOR NON TECHNICAL USERS. COLDCARD FOR EVERYONE ELSE.
SELF CUSTODY IS EASIER THAN DRIVING A CAR OR RAISING A KID.
NO EXCUSES. FIGURE IT OUT OR REGRET IT LATER.
Login to reply
Replies (120)
I'll just add I think @seedsigner > than Cold Card.
Who is that clown? Is it one of Saylor's progeny?
The average person thinks IOUs/ETFs are bitcoins 😢😓💔
He sounds like he has no idea what he is talking about
Same is true for thr TapSigner, right?
They will be
I hear this among the self proclaimed “cryptoexperts” to diversify your holdings on different exchanges 🤦🏻🤣 dumb fucks
CC til I D
I think this was in response to a guy on Twitter who lost all his bitcoin by bricking his ledger and misplacing the backup.
X (formerly Twitter)
Chaseyourdreams247 (@ChaseYoDream247) on X
Completely devastated after losing access to my Bitcoin wallet. This is my story:
I’ve been buying Bitcoin since 2020. My goal starting out was ...
If you can't afford a Bitkey or Coldcard you probably don't have enough bitcoin to do self-custody on-chain.
I bought #bitkey on launch ...but sofar trusted only 100 dollar to .. still stuck in #coinbase and #cashApp (:-
keep saying this ..I will sure pass the hurdle with little nudge or push :-)
Yeah, from watching the video he certainly would have been better off using Bitkey.
Buy this
Check the bag. Check the numbers. Read the docs. Create entropy. Write down the 24 seed words. PGP the software.
Create a 12 word passphrase using words from the BIP39 list. Tripple check the spelling. It's easier if you use the pre-spelled list on the Q.
Use a dry erase marker to mark the spots you need to punch on your seed plates.
Double check them. If you made a miatake, wipe it with a damp paper towel and fix it.
When your sure it's right, punch the letters...But first...Send a small transaction. Erase your key from the cold card. Test your seed phrase recovery. Test your passphrase. Reconstruct it from your seed plates. If you see your sats, congrats. If not, kiss that small transaction goodbye and start over.
Store your key and passphrase in seperate locations. Create lamintated backup(food saver bags also work), but store them somewhere far away from you.
Keep learning. Assume your stack will be worth 10X more on 4 years and 100X more in 8.
This is not financial advice. It is cybersecurity advice. If you fuck up, no one can help you so stay humble and stack knowledge.
Coinkite Store – Get your Coinkite, Opendime and Coldcard product here!
Seed XOR Bundle Q
For one special bundle price, you get: 1 x COLDCARD™ Q 1 x Industrial MicroSD 3 x SEEDPLATE® 24 Words 1 x Security Bag Kit
..because personal responsibility is the new counter culture. Same reason the majority seek the white coats for prescription drugs.
At a base level, HW seed signers could be considered a point of failure.
Now that is a hot take...
If you can’t enter your own seed, then it’s “trust me bro” security, same as custodial. #Bitcoin #meme 
Wise words 🫡
I hate this shit, hw design has peaked with coldcard mk4
I use it for convinience, but I wouldn't put my life savings on a TapSigner.
never count on a device to hold your keys. you need a physical copy somewhere. paper, metal, whatever. electronics fail sometimes unexpectedly.
@SeedSigner
You nailed it with your reply! I agree with you Fren 😊 and happy Sunday!
HORRIBLE ADVICE.
LEARN HOW TO HOLD BITCOIN SECURELY YOURSELF.
I RECOMMEND BITKEY FOR NON TECHNICAL USERS. COLDCARD FOR EVERYONE ELSE.
SELF CUSTODY IS EASIER THAN DRIVING A CAR OR RAISING A KID.
NO EXCUSES. FIGURE IT OUT OR REGRET IT LATER.
View quoted note →
do you think it would be more pallatible with reactive security via on-chain vaults?
He's a dick
Way easier than driving a car. Why is everyone such a goddamn pussy when it comes to taking personal responsibility for anything?
Bitkey model with a screen would be great
I use Bitkey for my smaller and newer coins then coldcard for my main then I transfer every once in a while.
1000% agree! This is what I tell people too. BitKey and Coldcard are the best at what they do. BitKey is great for non technical people and new Bitcoiners, while Coldcard fills in some gaps for those that need or want a bit more flexibility and control.
HORRIBLE ADVICE.
LEARN HOW TO HOLD BITCOIN SECURELY YOURSELF.
I RECOMMEND BITKEY FOR NON TECHNICAL USERS. COLDCARD FOR EVERYONE ELSE.
SELF CUSTODY IS EASIER THAN DRIVING A CAR OR RAISING A KID.
NO EXCUSES. FIGURE IT OUT OR REGRET IT LATER.
View quoted note →
lol Anon, some people shouldn’t be driving or even raising a kid🤣
That's not what I meant either. What I mean to say is that if people can learn how to use a password manager, they can learn how to back up on a metal plate
So bitkey for my son. Sounds good, thank you.
I would say no excuses for most people in any generation below Gen X. I don't think Boomers can learn to self custody safely lol.
Followed the manual and bought the device directly from Blockstream. How the fuck can someone drain a wallet without the device. Didn’t stick around to figure out.
apparently for a lot of people saving those words is too hard. they need their mom to keep track of their stuff
How does Alex not see the optics of what he’s saying here. Come on. Completely agree, setup your family with a @npub1tcnv...ctu0
I don't think this is bad advice.
Keep in mind we are coming from a perspective of people who literally thinks about BTC security all day every day. Your average person doesn't do this and often can't even keep their Twitter account secure. The difference is now they lose their life savings instead of somebody tweeting from their account.
What is there to maintain about 12 words in a safe?
BITKEY IS PERFECT FOR THE PERSON YOU JUST DESCRIBED.
Actually I do. Technically speaking. I hold my own keys. On metal. Have hand drawn QR codes that can be used with my Seedsigner and/or Jade. And run a BTC/LN node which I zap from.
I do use a coinos address here for reviving zaps but move them off to my node immediately upon receipt. And I don't get many at all...
So I suppose you could call the 21 odd sats in that wallet at any time custodial... but I'm not going to sweat that.
But I also think the technical friction for doing all this is not something all users can overcome. And sometimes counterparty risk is the better trade off with a portion of one's stack can be better than self risk.
Bitkey has no screen like @BitBox.
Why should I trust my computer? What am I missing?
Couldn’t agree more. Having true property rights requires responsibility. Bitkeys are great products for people to start learning too.
Bitkey is nice. Hope I can review it soon.
disgusting!
Self custody is not easier because it’s virtually impossible to misplace a child or car
SHOULD NOT HAVE SAID PERFECT. NOTHING IS PERFECT BUT IT IS GREAT FOR THAT TYPE OF USER.
EASIER TO USE SECURELY THAN TWITTER OR EMAIL.
I recommend Trezor safe 5 (or safe 3 as an “economic” option). 100% satisfaction and they will soon have their own security chip boosting their security level to the max
Are they still there? Do they backup the wallet you remember they are for? Does anyone else have access to the safe? Are they a single point of failure or do you use a passphrase/multisig/another tool? When was the last time you attempted signing a txn? Is the safe at the same location as your signer?
Even more tinfoil hat:
What are the chances the safe was replaced with a replica? Where were you when you generated the seed, were there any cameras around? Was the tool used ever determined to be low entropy?
Lol idk about that as history shows there are those people...just we got tricked into letting others hold our own value once u understand the power behind holding it's the same as buying gold i would always be told buy the physical same with #btc pull it into ur hands :) cold storage i tell older people is basically a safe u put ur bitcoin in the safe same as gold in ur safe :)
Damn Bitkey huh surprised with that one is it that secure or u going based off morals I'm curious it's just never came up in convos only the release..appreciate the insight big dawg!
Nice lil set up does bitkey have limits like cash app?
this note is perfect
Got grown ass adults afraid to hold their own wealth it's disgusting and the greatest trick ever played on humanity 
Checking them out the other day was like go with new tech or stick to what works and what u know? If I were to have to buy one rn hypothetically
I appreciate the support in this guys. Been self-custodying since 2017 with all kinds of wallets. I just don’t like such a bad take from a founder I do business with. I like just about everything else I have heard from Alex though.
Fair
Limits on what?
Hardly the same. BitKey is multi signature but easy to use. Good luck doing multisig manually with a cold card. God forbid a non technical person to do so
Anyone should be able to learn. To me, the key is to start small enough that it doesn't even make sense to get a hardware wallet at first. Just play around with like $20-$100 worth self-custodied on a phone app. Practice sending corn to yourself and/or back and forth with a friend. Practice wiping the app from your phone then recovering everything with your seed phrase. If you fuck up, you did it before you even had a devastating amount to lose. None of this is all that difficult. Once you feel comfortable, you will have developed a pretty good tool-set for now knowing when it makes sense to switch to a hardware wallet - or maybe you will conclude that 3rd-party custody is what would work best for you... the point is to put yourself in a position to make an educated decision regarding your personal situation rather than just blindly going with someone else's recommendation. If you're not willing to put forth even this minimal effort, you should probably just stick to ETFs if you want any exposure to Bitcoin at all.
It’s super secure, open source and 2 of 3 multi-sig. Definitely worth checking out.
or buy a Tangem wallet, problem solved =)
True but I'd say Bitkey is addressing the problem by moving from pure self to collaborative custody
Just alot of red flags for me I haven't educated myself on the hardware so I have questions guess I'll look anyone got any sources I can check out
Your sending and receiving of funds 999.99 per week in usd on cash app is there a limit on the bitkey or its just a signing device ? What about the wallet the coin is in?? Just need to educate myself on it I'm just really surprised 😮
I like bitbox. Don't hear it talked about much but it's basically what you wish a ledger was.
Not really.
Don't trust, verify.
Cold cards are closed source software? No?
Same goes for Umbrel desktop users. Closed source software.
Closed sources and lack of transparency is exactly what got us to this point
This is a good place to start. Their blog regarding building the product open source - 
Bitkey: Self-custody bitcoin wallet
Building in the open: a novel design for smartphone-based bitcoin wallets
At Bitkey, we’re committed to empowering individuals to safely and independently manage their bitcoin. As the team continues to ship improvements...
How often do you think we’ll need to change wallets going forward? With break ins or wallet companies going out of business. What is the best set it and forget it custody long term?
100K to 1M sat UTXOs are fine. Hardware signers are nice to have up to 10M sats, IMO.
I use a bitkey for my mum but always worry over the upper limit that can be 'secured.' What's the upper limit, @ODELL et al or there isn't one as long as the tradeoffs are accepted.
I'm not too concerned about it not screen having a screen as we do regular rather large lump sum buys.
Unfortunately, many noobs will follow the advice of bitcoin only exchange founder...
@Blockstream Jade/Green combination. You’re set for life.
I don’t buy from cash app. And it’s just a signing device. Similar to cold card.
He knows it’s an unpopular opinion because why? BECAUSE IT’S THE WRONG OPINION! So wrong that I resorted to all caps. Shocking for me.
I’ve gotten 10 of my friends into bitcoin and I made sure they all have self custody. But unfortunately they are unwilling to learn anything and I constantly have to hold their hand. At the end of the day most people love the nerfed world we live in and only care that the beer is cold. I won’t give up trying to educate people but I can’t make them take responsibility
You’re better off buying the bitcoin back from them. They obviously don’t seem ready and it sounds like it would be kept better by you.
Maybe in the future if they come to the senses or if shit hits the fan you fan be in a position to help.
A little surprised to see Alex say this, but I value his perspective on it.
I'll probably look into it if it's that noob proof and safe sounds like a nice starting spot
So true. I like that the Cold Card Q has notes and passwords now. I can review my notes when I start to doubt my setup, but I can also erase everything with a few presses of the buttons.
Hopefully its also backed up!
Not yet, but I'm thinking about buying another. :)
You can back up encrypted to microsd. Keeps notes and everything.
I didn't even know that. 😂
Nope - excellent advice *for some people* and *some circumstances*
Many are comfortable and confident managing all their bitcoins 🙂 but some people - even with excellent tuition/guidance - are definitely not
Think of some of the absolute numpties you dealt with in your fiat-life; think of our old sparring partner Peter Schiff .. the bloke can’t even manage a password
Full self custody is the ideal .. some people aren’t up to it .. #reality
Being your own bank is essential to financial freedom and privacy.
3rd party liability iz getting weak/* imho
pain will push/* good on U-Norman/*****
ime
I use it, too. And I am very happy with it. Its quite common in Germany I think. (at least its talkes about in podcasts and such.)
Love your idealism, Odell. The reality is that most people don’t want to think; they just crave dopamine hits. Everything else feels like a burden they’d rather avoid. Unfortunately, bringing these NPCs on board is a necessary step to free those of us who value freedom. Custodial solutions are a part of the process. Saylor is part of the process, Tether, and even money laundering, are all necessary steps to free this restricted group in the new cycle of adoption.
Unfortunately, that accounts for about 90% of the population! I think early adopters (anybody who has bought BTC and held at any time in the last 15 years) forget how contrarian we are. The best we can hope for is that most noobies who buy BTC will progress from initially leaving their BTC on an exchange, to moving most of it to hot wallet self custody. Some will eventually get to cold storage, but whether we like it or not, that will be a bridge too far for more people than you think.
Seed signer is using a raspberry pi- that is not something you can verify
Is someone with a family history of dementia supposed to hold their own keys? Seems like a bad idea. I’m using an edge case to prove a point but I think the % of people that should hold their own keys in a single sig with no counterparty redundancy is less than 1% of the world.
What’s your thoughts on Trezor for self custody ?
THE NEW ONE IS FINE. I PREFER COLDCARD.
Trezor Safe 3 or Trezor Safe 5 are great. If the money doesn’t matter go 5. But if the money really doesn’t matter go Foundation Passport. It’s fantastic.
With Odell on that and considering I have my new Q, recommend Schiff Gold option! It’s just a nice little reminder
If people aren’t comfortable with self custody another good option is collaborative custody like unchained. They have easy to use concierge service too. I’m curious what proportion of @River customers do self custody vs keep on exchange? @npub139nl...kwf4
It's not binary. It's a a gradient. You don't need the same self control to self custody 1000 sats as you need to to self custody a million sats.
Can everyone be trusted to keep 1 BTC safe for a decade? Probably not.
But you can probably trust most 10 year olds to keep 1000 sats safe for a month and most adults to keep 100k sats safe for a year.
Literate adults*
That is a good point and 1% I can agree with that
It's not about the amount of sats. It's about the relative importance of that amount to your life. For some, 100k sats is life-changing money, for others it's more like 10 BTC. In any case, people will want to hold more than just lunch money in bitcoin. So your argument is moot.
Gradual responsability for different amounts is moot?
Remind me how it works with dollars and euros...
It's not gradual. That's why.
Bitcoin appreciates much faster than people update their security concepts. Plus, once it clicks with bitcoin, you ape in.
Also, like I said, the amount isn't the relevant factor. It's the relative value to your life, and that's affected by a lot of things.
It's suddenly then suddenly.
In general, though, your right. Of course, small amounts require different precautions than larger amounts.
Sure. I see your point.
Let's just hope that as many people as possible keep their own keys and don't lose them.
It’s been 5 years now 😂 I can’t afford to buy it back.
fuck off scammet
yeah seems more popular in europe
You are likely comfortable handling private key material directly (safeguarding seed phrases), but I suspect most of your friends and family lack the time or interest to properly research and study how to do this. So for them Bitkey is a safer solution than exchanges or self custody wallets with footguns.