Replies (107)
I've done some remixes in the past but nothing lately. I always use & recommend regular kind 1 posts instead of any special music app. In the time I've been here plebs.app has popped up from
@Luxas which is a special kind 1 app for videos that seems quite helpful too
BTW fountain has more than podcasts:
https://fountain.fm/artist/8WjaMQiEL72yy16HsBpe - it seems complete discographies can be uploaded.
I see but a kind 1 post won’t host my music for streaming :) it should be the same experience as Spotify / Apple Music / Tidal, but with zaps. Fountain could be it, but clear focus is on podcasts and I couldn’t tell ONE single regular artist having their music on Fountain (except hardcore Nostr-musicians :)
@Theo Katzman from Vulfpeck? 👏👏 any ideas?
You're right what we need is a UI that works like existing music apps, but I strongly feel that app should work on kind 1 like how plebs.app uses it for video.
As it stands,not sure if you're saying you didn't know, but you can attach audio files directly in a kind 1 post through many clients, like jumble:
Just think we're very early
Tons of music on Fountain. Hit search and scroll to the bottom to Hot Tracks.
Wavlake and Faountin have nostr features in the apps but I wouldn't call them Nostr-based music. Even the Wavlake music that shows up in Fountain is delivered via RSS.
I see that “but” these are 90% artists coming up on Nostr, which is great, but what I mean is that no big/middle famous artists from out-of-Nostr come into Fountain. The only one I can think of is
@Theo Katzman from Vulfpack, but neither he promotes him being in Fountain/Wavlake, but rather Bandcamp.
Oh wow I didn’t know this. RSS is the keyword!! But asking ChatGPT about RSS + music, quickly answered all my questions :( I’m posting it into an article : RSS 3.0 The Music Platform we never built.
@boka I think the issue is that RSS and Nostr are separate protocols. Both do incredible things for music that most musicians don’t know about yet because collectively we are brainwashed by traditional distribution that point and click upload/distribution is the standard. Anyone can use these tools but it’s not a point and click experience. It’s not that we (musicians collectively) need it dumbed down either it’s just that we are using all of our time and brain power to make amazing music. We need a distribution UI that allows artists to upload and attach a wallet with splits that we can control AND that works with both ecosystems seamlessly. Ideally it would even work with traditional distribution…. Like Tidal. TIdal is making BIG moves in the space but all through the @block companies, specifically
@Cash App - Artists can upload direct (at no charge) and be paid direct (from supporters and fans) via Cash App (I’m hoping bitcoin soon🤞) Be sure to check out Tidal Upload (separate from the normal tidal experience) if you have not already.
As
@Joe Martin 🎶🟠⚡ said it’s early and we are just not there yet. That said some of us have been at it now for years without any real improvement on the UI side.
I’m hoping in 2026 we will bring a lot more collaboration between #nostr and #rss that addresses USER needs specifically.
I love my many DEV friends around the world but we need developers building for users. This feels like the biggest oversight to me in the space. More user solutions less vibe coding.
#justmytwosats
A few days ago, I just started working on the first song that I've produced in over 20 years. 💁♂️
Wish me luck because I'm rusty AF. 🤙
In browser it seems so but not in the app…
Thank you Ainsley for your reply!! Wow this CashApp feature is so hidden in Tidal!! Thanks for pointing it out!
Well as I understand (see attached) uploaded music won’t get royalties by simple plays, but only if listeners cashapp you… Am I right?
Otherwise direct artist support is not advertised whatsoever on Tidal upon signing up / opening their website, so probably this still has to be silent as this is not good for big labels. They just accept it as long as it remains silent and is (almost) invisible?
@boka Tidal upload is only a few weeks old. I don’t think it will stay hidden for long but yeah, it is a break from the normal traditional distribution. I’ve had a few Cash App payments that are more than I’d ever see from royalties (6 months later) so I’m all in on the concept. There’s a lot left to fix here - for sure - but it is a step in the right direction. I suspect one day, with Cash App accepting lightning via a lightning based cashtag tidal will be the first traditional distro to enable bitcoin payments. I have no insider information on that but it sure seems we are moving in the right direction. BIg moves by @tidal and
@Cash App. I say, stay tuned ⚡️🧡
Fingers crossed — spreading the word! ⚡️🧡
It’s hard to get away from platforms like Spotify/Apple Music and co.
Network effects and golden gates are true obstacles to overcome.
What exactly are you looking for ?
💋
Still waiting for art or ist it just charts and larp?:)
I'm going to have a really, really LOOOOOONG answer to this 😉
Maybe I don't see all the reply, but I can't believe no one seems to have posted crush!
https://crush.shakespeare.wtf/
Can't remember who made it right now, it's a WIP, but a cool thing!
That’s
@Karnage and it is a cool site.
Shit it’s nodecast.xyz now I think
Smells like we're getting out of gamma!
are you talking about nodecast.xyz?
Is that the one you made?
Ya
To me, it looks like this guy has no proof of work. Been on #nostr a month...and don't forget that like with #Bitcoin, we are early!😎
There were and are many attempts. None successful yet, which is not that surprising that many artists already have quite a lot on their plate already and, at a larger scale, music is a business controlled by only 3 companies that have enough power to strangle any innovation.
Funny I should find your note this morning, when no later than yesterday evening I made my first live twitch as I'm precisely ambitioning to take along those who would like to board the crypto-decentralized train for music...
In the meantime, you may want to have a look at
Unchained music value • Allfeat
Allfeat provides a universal, open-source, decentralized infrastructure designed to secure and certify music IP.
Choon, Musicoin or Hyperspace may no longer be around, but I keep being confident that we'll get there eventually.
This is a shitty attitude and unwelcoming to Nostr newcomers. Fuck off with this. This isn’t a club, it’s a community.
Thank you! I forgot what it was called
Isn't
@Wavlake in the middle of a full re-write?
Yeah I just heard it yday! 🔥
@patricelazareff very interested in allfeat - are you a part of this team?
Not really. I've been following them since the beginning and met the CEO recently at the MaMA festival (a big indie music event in Paris, France). I decided to invest and get some of their $AFT tokens. The main obstacle is that most indie artists are not so informed about the administrative side of music and that many professionals (publishers mostly) tend to be very defiant about blockchain. Convincing both is gonna be a challenge. But Allfeat are already connected to many people and could join the DDEX consortium, that's encouraging.
Yes. Encouraging. I reached out to them. My folks have been working on the back end trying to help solve the IP problem and we understand the pushback with blockchain. I think the publishing answer is with blockchain though. The free and open or V4V is also a very hard sell on the artist side. The average album costs 12,000 USD and hoping people send value isn’t the best business strategy either. You’ve probably found here in Nostrland that many people disagree with me on this. BUt we absolutely need a return to music being valued, not free.
are we being serious out here
are we real people
View quoted note →
Glad that you reached out to them, they also run discord and telegram channels. I too am convinced that blockchain is a large part of a better ecosystem for music rights management. It is not a surprise that SACEM (the french PRO that also runs ASCAP in the US and PRS in UK) is using blockchain (Tezos, I believe) for their date-proofing system called MusicStart, which is free to use for their members. Even in a decentralized blockchain-based system, they probably still would be needed (as a digital signature) for identity checks.
Totally agree also on the valuation of music. My opinion is that it's not actually music that is undervalued but music recordings, which are a slightly different thing. When I started in this business, in the mid 80's, recording an album cost far more than 12k, more like the price of a house. And, from the label's perspective, the recording budget represented from 2 to 8% of the total production cost as you had to add manufacturing objects (vinyls and cd's and cassettes), shoot a video-clip (and that would cost as much as recording, mixing and mastering the whole album) and pay the promotion in the hope that journalists would like the music so you could finally reach the public. Technology has hopefully short-circuited most of this but with side-effects. And like in any domain, the retail price is somehow linked to the production cost, and the latter has been reduced to next to none, especially since Suno, Udio and the likes.
All that being said, I'm very hopeful that this situation will lead the public to value more the music in itself, especially in direct live moments, probably largely improvised, so one knows that what they're witnessing did not exist before and will not happen ever again afterwards. DJ sets and improvised electronic music performances are a good example of that, imo.
Sorry for such a rant...
I am not too sure what you took offence at, but I assure you I meant none. I do not think it is a bad attitude to tell people to lower their time preference and to work hard and often in order to be rewarded because we are early. In fact, I would consider that one of life’s universal truths. As far as being unwelcoming to newcomers, I have been here for 2 months and you told me to fuck off 😂. Fortunately, I do not hold grudges and rather seek understanding because I believe a community that incorporates these values is better off than one that does not. Do you not agree?
@Strange Love you get out what you put in. I’ve interacted with you enough on here to see that you’re enjoying the journey and finding Value.
I found out about you guys from hearing your track on Mutton, Mead & Music. Some dude with a music show just happened to play your track and I wouldn’t have never heard of you otherwise.
First of all, you’re confusing time preference and proof of work.
But the toxic maxi attitude against newcomers and fellow musicians needs to go.
You’ve been here for two months, them one, and you think you can talk about time preference and say they’re being negative? GTFO.
And he’s absolutely right. Music on here has been struggling. And sending toxic maxi attitude his way is just one example of why.
How about less “get off my corner?”
The proof of work is that his music is good. Hello. 🙄
You're asking questions but not hearing the answers.
The ecosystem is decentralized in how it appears. Artists aren't just "here" or "there". Theres a ton of artists with npubs on nostr and theres a ton of artists self hosting their media on RSS feeds. My nostr feed is almost entirely music related and (finger in the air) 75% artists.
RSS is built such that if someone is "on fountain" it's because they published an RSS feed. If they did that theyre also on v4vmusic.com podcastguru podverse etc etc.
The ONLY exception to that currently is wavlake and thats due to early technical limitations. Pls realize that the person who runs wavlake has several other massive undertakings (including currently touring). If you feel something is missing, build it yourself - thats what he did and hes a musician too, not a dev.
Nostr and all the apps are a social layer. Nostr doesnt have music because it doesnt really exist outside of maybe what karnage had vibe coded the other day. But even that uses rss to a degree in believe. Nostr is not a good use case for music hosting. You guys sound like the "put it on a blockchain" people. Nostr, however is amazing as an identity and social layer. RSS is FAR better suited for metadata. And file hosting is agnostic whether you're using rss or nostr. (Still not even sure what people really mean by nostr music other than repeating a great sounding buzzword)
With you on this one. This is the case for all things. People need to understand that it takes work and dedication to figuring something out. Many times the problems you have are simply due to ego, thinking you already have all the answers. Put in the hard work and research over complaining.
I believe in saying things as it is. If it seems unwelcoming, then tough shit. You aren't thick skinned enough to survive in this biz if someone telling you to work harder is enough to make you leave a space as revolutionary as this.
I've spoken to Claude about this template
We could build a lot of cool stuff if people used RSS. You can host stuff on Nostr and stick it in a RSS feed.
@Castr.Me is a perfect example of this.
@Movie Archive is a great use for this.
https://fountain.fm/show/2ZxfMvcPtWncjALhBFmiSome of us believe this is for everyone and rather than staying small, it should grow. And if the small club isn’t appealing, why join? I think Boka told it like it is. He gave valuable insight into how a musician new to this space sees it. We don’t need to be fragile about it.
Scaling must come at the right time and place. We have a significant influx of artists who are willing to put in the work and figure it out. The rate of new uploads have continued to increase over the last 3 years. But I believe the next missing stage is fans because fans are the ones "paying the bills". Without regard to fragility, money still drives things here.
If we only focus on bringing in artists any way we can, no one will stick around if it turns out it wasnt worth their effort. And theres often no second chance. It does more harm than good. That only way its worth it is if we scale fans and artists in lockstep. Right now we need more fans, I am on the front lines of this one for many years now. As you know we represent multiple artists here so Ive seen the progression and changes over the years.
What’s broken here is giving artists more work to do rather than providing a solution. They don’t want more work.
Staying big or small has nothing to do with what im talking about. I've been a huge proponent of scaling from the start. Im sure youve seen my quick case study on the Retrograde's 2024 earnings and how all we need is to scale up.
Yes its good to have insight from new artists. Thats one thing sure, but lets be nuanced here. To suddenly jump into a space thats been grinding hard for years building for free on your behalf..., and to provide your "insight" in the form of "here are all the problems you need to fix" (without having done the proper research into those very problems that have already been fixed) is simply naive at best. There's a right way and wrong way to approach a community as an outsider. Thats on them, not us.
More fans for sure. It’s about getting your music heard.
Again, comes off as unwelcoming. I’ve been doing this for a couple years too. I have “research” too. There are a ton of problems that need to be fixed here. Happy to call them out, happy to fix them. Just because I don’t do things the way a certain group likes doesn’t negate my work at all. I wish you all well.
This isn't an us against them thing. No one is negating anyone's work in this space. Everyone's pushing forward their way and Im here for that.
Yes it may come off as unwelcoming but you can read into tone or action. if you follow the progression, many people chimed in with helpful answers to their problems and genuine attempts to help with answers.
Its one thing to be welcoming, its another to take FUD laying down. You literally took the words out of my mouth. Just because our working solutions aren't the way a certain group likes to do things, doesnt mean our efforts shld be negated either by spreading FUD thats ultimately damaging to the entire ecosystem (regardless what moniker you use)
The solutions that exist may not be the prettiest and take some work to learn, but that learning before complaining is the proof of work that
@Strange Love is talking about. (Heather you've been here long enough you deserve to complain lol)
Sometimes one has to do more work in order to achieve their goals.
In a perfect world everything would be easy, sadly I don't live in such a world. ☹️
Just heard
@Strange Love on Mutton, Mead & Music while driving back from my parents house.
Seems to be working to me.
Making things a little bit harder (and lets be honest it isn't rocket science) is a feature not a bug. A tiny moat is enough to keep out significant amount of slop.
We right here 🫡
Which platform is this?
Thats the Castamatic podcasting app
Yes more listeners coming along with more artists is key to sustainability for sure. I think some artists that come into this space have to play the role of both artist and fan until the space really takes off. But I am so greatful for all the new listeners we have gained and also the new music we have been exposed to and joined on these platforms and protocols!
I understand what you are saying and appreciate the passion you have brought to this space. Obviously its hard work being a musician, perfecting your craft, and recording songs to put online. But that is the bare minimum. Once you do all that, even if you are on Spotify or YouTube you have to post often, pitch to playlisters, try and hit the algorithm etc. That's all work that has to be put in outside the actual music. I think the same is true here. You have to be recognized by nostriches, V4VJs etc and build some real connections. It would be great if things were streamlined and artists could be put on every music podcast as soon as they upload and be getting thousands of SATs right away but its not the case. Not right now anyway.
Thanks so much brother! Glad to see we have built up a bit of good will here in a short time! 🙏
This is a great idea (the part about being put on every music podcast as soon as you upload). Maybe some kind of "upload alert" feature to podcast apps or just a place where podcasters can find this data easily...
@Dovydas had this type of thing in RSS Blue...different charts and things. Lots of work to build out this ecosystem, attract more musicians, attract more podcasters...
And this is why I keep saying this needs to be artist led. Artists have the best ideas & know what they need. 🔥
I could be wrong but I feel like most of the v4vjs are parusing the new release section of wavlake or whatever. But if other tools could be built to streamline this I don't see anything bad about that.
I find things either organically these days or ask around about what's good.
Would love if Nostriches would post more fave songs here, liven it up a bit... Social sharing of music could happen a lot more often.
Room for improvement there.
We've all gotta do a better job of amplifying songs & artists, reposting what musicians post on here, things like that. Small things. But they do matter.
If you go to the search tab on LNBeats.com it list all the music being uploaded to podcastindex from newest to oldest. This is what the music shows use to find new music people upload. They check it a few times a week and see if anything stands out that they want to play.
Definitely LNbeats, it’s the only place I used to see newly uploaded tracks.
I've never used wavlake to find new music because wavlake only shows their artists and not the entire index.
Castamatic is an app that runs on the rss protocol. It complies with PC2.0 standards in part by integrating bitcoin lightning tips. It is interoperable such that all RSS feeds published to the podcastindex (regardless where its uploaded from) can appear here and in any other compatible app immediately. Hows that for instant wide distribution?
Hey do you know of a “getting started guide” of some sort for artists who are interested in decentralized tech and v4v services?
Its a beautiful thing. Heres how I see it...
If we can get X artists over... and each of them brings a couple of their hardcore biggest fans with them... those fans will find other amazing new DeMu music and become fans there too. These are the type of people who'll actually monetarily support an artist they love.
All it takes is a few fans per artist to cross-pollinate a whole new hardcore fan base for everyone. When other artists see whats happening, the next wave of artists and their fans will come. Thats how we scale, stairstep in waves.
And another thing - for the artists here on nostr. I want to see more behind the scenes and nostr exclusive content. This is what will draw the hardcore fans. The ones who will go the extra mile to download an obscure app and a bitcoin wallet just to support you.
Value for value.
If you expect that from them, you should provide value back. Give them a reason to get up and join you here instead of staying comfortably where they are.
We are not just preaching at you - I have been pushing all of my artists for the same and working on our own DeMu/nostr only initiatives
I use either lnbeats or
V4V Music - RSS Music Player
Discover and play music from RSS feeds with value-for-value payments
(Scrolling is a bit broken right now - sorry) But when it works it's great. 🙂
Podhome, fountain, wavlake for me
Lnbeats.com is what most of us have been using to find the latest uploads. I believe v4vmusic.com (its new) has a latest section as well.
To get started is pretty simple:
Just upload your song/art/metadata to one of many hosts (or your own server/website). Some options I like are Podhome.fm or Fountain.fm podhome gives a bit more granular control imo and is my preferred for hosting but fountain is probably easier and a very good option. They integrated with RSSBlue and we use their services too.
With fountain you can use their wallet. With podhome you have to bring ypur own but coinos.io works and its a 2 second anonymous sign up. You can also run your own nodes and use that wallet (advanced but most options and most sovereign). @ me or DM if you have specific questions when filling stuff out.
I prefer you to be sovereign but if you want someone to just do this all for you white glove, we can handle your entire discography with promo for a small split. But like I say, I rather you figure it out for yourself.
From there, get an npub and start interacting with your fans on nostr! Talk to the V4VJs here and be part of the community. Boost/zap other artists, use the apps, give feedback to the devs. Thats how we grow a thriving community.
Try LN Beats
Been doing my show for over 2 years, preaching to the choir.
Yeah that sound like a good plan. Our latest release was a live album that we have never released anywhere until now. And it’s V4V exclusive!
Homegrown Hits only plays decentralized music, artists who control their own RSS feed so we can see the actual value splits instead of 100% Platform parsed out in the background. Peer to peer payments are just sexier. It takes an extra step, but we have loyal Hitters supporting those artists we select every Thursday:
MusicSideProject.com makes it easy, but if you have your own website and like DIY:
GitHub
demu-feed-template/feed-with-comments.xml at master · de-mu/demu-feed-template
Template for releasing decentralized music. Contribute to de-mu/demu-feed-template development by creating an account on GitHub.
I have looked into this a bit and want to do it. Did not have time to do it for our last release (time is scarce with a 1 year old child). I want to do it for our next release but it seems that we have to find a host site and pay them a monthly fee? Is that correct? If so, how does that make it any more decentralized than using Wavlake? It’s still a third party is it not? I am also very untechy lol. I am practically a Luddite compared to most nostriches 😂.
Uggh, they're not tips, they are payment for value received.
Best person to ask is
@Phantom Power Music about hosting.
Believe it or not this is a controversial question and therefore a dog whistle to certain folks on here. Good luck!
Congrats on your child! 💜🙏🏻 Mama of 5 here with a 1 year old as well. One is such a fun age!
I'm happy to tell you you're overcomplicating this. This is all about maintaining control of your RSS feed, the source of truth. As long as it remains in your complete control, your music will never be censored or rugpulled and anything can be updated at any time. Plus, you can put in unlimited value splits that go straight to the contributing artists.
There are some free or cheap hosting options but yes they are third party dependent. You can self-host but that's a different adventure for a different note.
Also should you need any help with any of this self hosting stuff, there are a ton of us here on nostr, irc, telegram, mastodon, etc. that are more than happy to help. Just ask
@Hash Power Music and
@The ₿udtender and
@BITwise 🐳 >>= RIGHTish 😁
Looks like they have a website so maybe could host it there someday.
https://strangeloveofmusic.wixsite.com/strangelove
It's really about having full control over your RSS feed that all of this runs on but for now
@Strange Love just enjoy the ride.
YES,
@boo-bury also. He has put together tons of lightning-enabled live events for musicians around the world. And all these people Libre tagged will teach and empower YOU to do it yourself. Then you learn and teach others, and the cycle continues. 💜
Boo-bury++
The ability to chose how sovereign you want to be is the real killer feature. You can be entirely self sovereign by hosting your feed and files on your own server in your basement. Or you can fully trust a centralized custodian to host and build your feeds for you. There's other flavors in between as well.
Imo as long as you're in control of your feeds and files, the tradeoffs for convenience and associated risks are yours to take as you see fit. Im here for all of it.
Thanks so much! Never knew how good being a dad could be until you see the little guy smile at you and excitedly yells “Daddy!” 😂. We will probably start working on another next year! And this whole self hosting thing sounds like the self custody wallet vs custodial/L2 wallet. I am a self custody man so I would like to self custody my music as well. And I would love to get on your show! After Christmas I am hoping to have some more time to figure this out for our next release!
Great! Thanks so much! After Christmas I will probably try again and potentially reach out to some of these people! 👍
Haha sounds like the “not your keys, not your coins” but for music
Yes we put together a wix site that has some of our music up on it. Was wondering if that would work to self host. Hopefully we can figure out early in the new year.
I can't speak to making the choice as a musician, depends on how much time/money you have and how much you want to do the tech stuff.
I would think it would be easier to tackle as a band with more people in it and maybe someone in the band has tech skills...
vs if you're a solo artist or a duo and maybe no one can handle *one more thing* on top of the rest of the work you need to do.
Some on here will tell you there's only 1 way to do things. I believe in choice...
Yeah for sure. I definitely will look into it. Might as well do as much as we can to be as independent as possible
YES YES YES! Dude, once you release a DeMu album,
@marykateultra and I would LOVE to have y'all on the show for a listen party / very relaxed interview format.
And it absolutely IS self-custodying of your music, just like self-custodying your money. 💪🏻 So glad you get it. You said it better than me!
Merry Christmas to you and yours. 🎄
Hey that sounds great! And like a lot of fun! Wouldn’t mind at all coming on for an interview! Thanks so much and Merry Christmas!
What a warm way to welcome people to the community.....
Tips are more intuitive terminology for musicians. Either way you call it, its value received back for the value that was put out there.
We offer white glove services but for someone like you, asking the right questions, you should absolutely do it on your own. Its honestly not that hard. 🤘🏽
You watch your mouth young man.😁
It's not a tip, didn't make me pull this car over. 😀
Just the 🤏🏽
Thanks so much! Appreciate the encouragement.
