Replies (90)
Oh, man! Strike
@Daylight Computer Co off my list.
In my opinion, in light of this, Daylight has no business comparing themselves to Obsidian who provides end-to-end encrypted sync.
I thought it was a little suspicious that you had to "share" links and documents through some web service in order to have them appear in the Reader, and I'm sure there is some helpful processing they may do server-side, but it's obvious now that it's mostly for data harvesting/selling and privacy violation.
Let me integrate the Reader app with the local filesystem and then let me turn off network access for it at the OS level (like GrapheneOS) and I'll reconsider. If you refuse to do that, I'll know why.
Louis Rossmann is comming for you
@Daylight Computer Co 😆
vinney...axkl
What the fuck
@Daylight Computer Co ? Are you out of your minds? If you're going to "collect my reading activity and personal notes", at least end-to-end encrypt them and don't harvest them for targeted advertising.
There is absolutely no way I'll be continuing to use you "Reader" software in this context, and you can be sure that if you release a custom OS that has this level of privacy invasion I will not be using it. If that means I can't use the hardware either, then so be it.
This is coming from someone who said the hardware is completely revolutionary and life-changing.
Privacy Policy 2025
Privacy Policy 2025
Daylight Computer Co. Privacy Policy
> Personal information we collect:
> ...Your reading materials, links, and other content you choose to save in the Service, and any notes added to saved documents.
> Automatic collection. As you navigate the Service, our communications, and other online services, we, our service providers and advertising partners may automatically collect identifiable information about you, your computer or device, and your browsing actions and use patterns, such as:
> Page views, pen strokes, reading history, search terms, what videos and other content you view, how long you spent on a page, the website you visited before browsing to the Service, navigation paths between pages, information about your activity on a page
> We, our service providers, and third party advertising partners may collect and use your personal information for the following purposes:
> Direct marketing
> Targeted advertising
Really sus
wtf
One way comms from them on here with obvious undisclosed influencer deals saved me on this one.
I also currently have a household wide ban on new android devices that don't run grapheneos.
I got rid of all the bloatware. Got Librera Pro for reading and Saber for handwriting. Both via Obtainium and GitHub.
If you don't want to be tracked, don't keep software that tracks you 🤷
I'm basically okay with this in the interim, but I am now **highly suspicious** of any custom OS they release. I haven't looked into how feasible it is to root the DC-1 or install custom OSes, but if they pull some Apple-level shit where you have to install their spyware OS to use the (extremely expensive) device, I'm gonna lose it.
there IS this, which Ive seen the company account link.
but its not really there yet, just the framework.
but *in theory*
we can root it and install custom ROMs.
Daylight DC-1: Custom ROM Overview ⚡ – Daylight Hacker Wiki
Your home for DC-1 Roms and Mods.
At least they were somewhat up front about it on their #nostr profile:
“You are being fiat farmed by Big Tech”
I don't appreciate their "signalling" to nostr while doing a similar kind of farming themselves.
Cool device. I assumed one could install a custom OS. Hooefully. 🤞
You’ve saved me from a purchase of @daylightco ’s product I would have regretted
I gave it a read and right in the first paragraph it looks like this isn't just their reader app, it applies to the entire operating system. Anything on the device. Am I reading that right?
I don't believe so, but I'm not sure. They ship base android for now, as far as I know...? Maybe there is some activity-spying shit on-board though..?
It's a custom OS. If you go to system update, you can find release notes:
daylightco on Notion
Daylight Release Notes | Notion
0.9.9.51
So yeah, the whole OS is covered by this garbage privacy policy that collects everything, including your pen strokes. I completely regret buying a DC-1. I already regretted it because I think the hardware feels cheap and the case creaks when I hold it in different positions... a $400 iPad has a better build quality than this. But this is totally unacceptable and I won't be using the device any more.
Yeah, it's a valid concern.
I remember them launching a forum for custom ROMs not too long ago. Maybe we'll get some 3rd party OSs to install down the line.
This privacy policy is a nightmare. I completely regret buying a DC-1 from
@Daylight Computer Co
What a huge disappointment.
Privacy Policy 2025
Privacy Policy 2025
Daylight Computer Co. Privacy Policy
vinney...axkl
What the fuck
@Daylight Computer Co ? Are you out of your minds? If you're going to "collect my reading activity and personal notes", at least end-to-end encrypt them and don't harvest them for targeted advertising.
There is absolutely no way I'll be continuing to use you "Reader" software in this context, and you can be sure that if you release a custom OS that has this level of privacy invasion I will not be using it. If that means I can't use the hardware either, then so be it.
This is coming from someone who said the hardware is completely revolutionary and life-changing.
Privacy Policy 2025
Privacy Policy 2025
Daylight Computer Co. Privacy Policy
> Personal information we collect:
> ...Your reading materials, links, and other content you choose to save in the Service, and any notes added to saved documents.
> Automatic collection. As you navigate the Service, our communications, and other online services, we, our service providers and advertising partners may automatically collect identifiable information about you, your computer or device, and your browsing actions and use patterns, such as:
> Page views, pen strokes, reading history, search terms, what videos and other content you view, how long you spent on a page, the website you visited before browsing to the Service, navigation paths between pages, information about your activity on a page
> We, our service providers, and third party advertising partners may collect and use your personal information for the following purposes:
> Direct marketing
> Targeted advertising
Well I read their privacy policy and I sent them a data deletion request. I wasn't even using their service account or their apps anyway. Nowhere in the document did I get a sense that they've backdoored their operating system beyond whatever tracking happens when you sign in with Google.
i’ll go back to my laptop now :/
another thing I found weird is that even after downloading the mullvad vpn, the google app that cannot be deleted (sigh), still knew my location :/ this was before their more recent update as well
Yikes 😬
charlatans
sorry for your lost sats, thanks for the PSA
if I'm misinterpreting the policy they are very welcome to correct me here....
Ouch
Rip
Not to squeeze lemon juice in already open wounds, but there is a good reason to read over privacy policies before buying a product. Just because they're virtual signaling on nostr doesn't necessarily mean they practice what they preach
vinney...axkl
What the fuck
@Daylight Computer Co ? Are you out of your minds? If you're going to "collect my reading activity and personal notes", at least end-to-end encrypt them and don't harvest them for targeted advertising.
There is absolutely no way I'll be continuing to use you "Reader" software in this context, and you can be sure that if you release a custom OS that has this level of privacy invasion I will not be using it. If that means I can't use the hardware either, then so be it.
This is coming from someone who said the hardware is completely revolutionary and life-changing.
Privacy Policy 2025
Privacy Policy 2025
Daylight Computer Co. Privacy Policy
> Personal information we collect:
> ...Your reading materials, links, and other content you choose to save in the Service, and any notes added to saved documents.
> Automatic collection. As you navigate the Service, our communications, and other online services, we, our service providers and advertising partners may automatically collect identifiable information about you, your computer or device, and your browsing actions and use patterns, such as:
> Page views, pen strokes, reading history, search terms, what videos and other content you view, how long you spent on a page, the website you visited before browsing to the Service, navigation paths between pages, information about your activity on a page
> We, our service providers, and third party advertising partners may collect and use your personal information for the following purposes:
> Direct marketing
> Targeted advertising
Oof sorry to hear man
this is the most important question for me. If it's OS-level spyware then I'm removing my notes app and syncthing from it
I guess privacy isn't considered a freedom.
also is it really respecting your attention if it's sharing your data with affiliates for targeted advertising?
the new policy takes effect on march 6th, so i guess we have a few weeks to still enjoy our daylights :(
I sincerely hope that we are all misunderstanding this policy and that I owe them a huge public apology, which I will be happy to deliver in that case!
vinney...axkl
What the fuck
@Daylight Computer Co ? Are you out of your minds? If you're going to "collect my reading activity and personal notes", at least end-to-end encrypt them and don't harvest them for targeted advertising.
There is absolutely no way I'll be continuing to use you "Reader" software in this context, and you can be sure that if you release a custom OS that has this level of privacy invasion I will not be using it. If that means I can't use the hardware either, then so be it.
This is coming from someone who said the hardware is completely revolutionary and life-changing.
Privacy Policy 2025
Privacy Policy 2025
Daylight Computer Co. Privacy Policy
> Personal information we collect:
> ...Your reading materials, links, and other content you choose to save in the Service, and any notes added to saved documents.
> Automatic collection. As you navigate the Service, our communications, and other online services, we, our service providers and advertising partners may automatically collect identifiable information about you, your computer or device, and your browsing actions and use patterns, such as:
> Page views, pen strokes, reading history, search terms, what videos and other content you view, how long you spent on a page, the website you visited before browsing to the Service, navigation paths between pages, information about your activity on a page
> We, our service providers, and third party advertising partners may collect and use your personal information for the following purposes:
> Direct marketing
> Targeted advertising
Followed.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I've done a bit of digging recently on the blue light stuff myself and I was all on board for a product like this but wtf indeed. And yet their bio says: "You are being fiat farmed by Big Tech".
I've brought this up since launch. No movement. Privacy is not a priority it seems.
I bought a Boox palma 2 and rooted it to install a never-off VPN, and to be able to disect apps I didn't want.
At least the Chinese company doesn't pretend to be freedom tech.
I (very unfortunately) missed that from you!
😔
Sorry mate. Love that you're bringing this up.
Don’t look at Primal or Coinkite
It just happened to get some traction today. Your note should have as well!
I don't use Primal.
What's the problem with Coinkite...? I'm scared now lol
1. Overpriced products
2. Non-stop FUD about competitors, and FOSS specifically
3. Had multiple vulnerabilities in their SE, they did not disclose it, still using same flawed series of products
4. False advertising claims
5. 33% of the OpenSats board has monetary interest in CK even though #2
To put it simply, your credit card has more security features than your Coldcard
....even airgapped? How would that work?
Yeah. How it works is that unlike the crappy ATECC/DS SEs they use, it has protections against a lot of attacks. Both of them cost <$1.
I absolutely love the /idea/ of
@Daylight Computer Co, but their use of Googled Android and privacy policy has been a hard no from me right from the start.
For now, I stick to my GrapheneOS phone with night light enabled, a Remarkable tablet for writing, note taking, and e-book reading paired with a Hooga red light reading lamp for the dark.
I'm a firm believer in handwriting notes for learning, memorizing, and committing procceses, principles or ideas or memory. I constantly tell my clients "Write this down. No. Don't type. Get a pen and paper. I'll wait."
The Remarkable was given to me as a gift. Their privacy policy is not perfect either, but to circumvent, I only use it locally and have never connected it to an account or the internet and keep it locked. Its not encrypted, but its a step up from my physical notebooks that are completely exposed if someone gets them. Plus its easier to carry everything with me in a single tablet.
I would love to see a amber and red light tablet that addresses privacy concerns, health and well-being, and a paper like display for writing. One day! 🤞
vinney...axkl
What the fuck
@Daylight Computer Co ? Are you out of your minds? If you're going to "collect my reading activity and personal notes", at least end-to-end encrypt them and don't harvest them for targeted advertising.
There is absolutely no way I'll be continuing to use you "Reader" software in this context, and you can be sure that if you release a custom OS that has this level of privacy invasion I will not be using it. If that means I can't use the hardware either, then so be it.
This is coming from someone who said the hardware is completely revolutionary and life-changing.
Privacy Policy 2025
Privacy Policy 2025
Daylight Computer Co. Privacy Policy
> Personal information we collect:
> ...Your reading materials, links, and other content you choose to save in the Service, and any notes added to saved documents.
> Automatic collection. As you navigate the Service, our communications, and other online services, we, our service providers and advertising partners may automatically collect identifiable information about you, your computer or device, and your browsing actions and use patterns, such as:
> Page views, pen strokes, reading history, search terms, what videos and other content you view, how long you spent on a page, the website you visited before browsing to the Service, navigation paths between pages, information about your activity on a page
> We, our service providers, and third party advertising partners may collect and use your personal information for the following purposes:
> Direct marketing
> Targeted advertising
Honestly, if you want to read, get a pixel fold and install grapheneOS on it and throw on the blue light filter. I got mine for the express purpose of being able to properly read manga and I love it 😁
Or if you want something cheaper and separate from your phone, graphene also runs on the pixel tablet!
I really need the large screen size at this point. I've opened Pandoras box of being able to comfortably read PDFs
When you unfold it, the screen is quite large! If you can find a way to test one out, I'd recommend it
I did read this…doesn’t seem to apply to the US…but definitely not a good look…
thanks!
Hi
@vinney...axkl , this is Drew, head of software at Daylight. Just want to clear up some misconceptions here.
Everything in Reader *IS* end-to-end encrypted, and we do not, and will never, sell any such data to any third party. We have crash logs and things of this kind that are only used for internal development. Another example is that, just physically, our servers have to detect that your tablet is trying to update. In practice we collect less data than any device you have likely ever owned, and will continue to make things more and more paranoiacally secure and private to the greatest extent we can.
If anyone has questions about what we do, how it compares with other devices, and so on, feel free to message.
I'll also add that we openly encourage you to use the device however you wish and even help with things like custom ROMs and so on, through the
Daylight Hacker Wiki 🌅📱 – Daylight Hacker Wiki
Your home for DC-1 Roms and Mods.
In my non-expert, non-legal opinion, the policy update doesn't substantially change anything from the previous version, but does add more detail that our lawyers have told us we need. Overall it's fairly standard. As our tech improves and the business grows, we will be able to afford more specificity and bespokeness in these kinds of documents. For now it's good that the notice we sent is sparking a discussion.
Long-term, a totally custom operating system that isn't based on Android, and incorporates things like homomorphic encryption at rest and so on is still the goal, but it will take time to get there.
I appreciate the response and I'm looking forward to being convinced (and convincing the rest of nostr) that you're correct!
can you explain why the privacy policy says what it says (especially about sharing data with affiliates for the purpose of targeted advertisement) if that's explicitly not something you do, plan to do, nor have the capability to do (if user data, handwriting, reading activity, etc is well encrypted you wouldn't even be capable of sharing it).
the last thing I want to do is spread misconceptions , especially malignant ones. But I can't square the difference between what you're saying here and what the policy email stated.
You are being fiat farmed by
@Daylight Computer Co
vinney...axkl
What the fuck
@Daylight Computer Co ? Are you out of your minds? If you're going to "collect my reading activity and personal notes", at least end-to-end encrypt them and don't harvest them for targeted advertising.
There is absolutely no way I'll be continuing to use you "Reader" software in this context, and you can be sure that if you release a custom OS that has this level of privacy invasion I will not be using it. If that means I can't use the hardware either, then so be it.
This is coming from someone who said the hardware is completely revolutionary and life-changing.
Privacy Policy 2025
Privacy Policy 2025
Daylight Computer Co. Privacy Policy
> Personal information we collect:
> ...Your reading materials, links, and other content you choose to save in the Service, and any notes added to saved documents.
> Automatic collection. As you navigate the Service, our communications, and other online services, we, our service providers and advertising partners may automatically collect identifiable information about you, your computer or device, and your browsing actions and use patterns, such as:
> Page views, pen strokes, reading history, search terms, what videos and other content you view, how long you spent on a page, the website you visited before browsing to the Service, navigation paths between pages, information about your activity on a page
> We, our service providers, and third party advertising partners may collect and use your personal information for the following purposes:
> Direct marketing
> Targeted advertising
Yikes, I was one of their early backers. I've made a huge mistake. Should have bought actual books, pens, paper, and sats.
Crap. I no longer want one of these
Out of my league on this but the display is revolutionary, that’s all. Would it be possible to “jailbreak” and go Linux? I understand Linux isn’t for everyone, but to make this a sweet little workhorse?
Currently loaded some Kindle content, articles, web content, PDFs for study, then planning to run mainly off-net. JUST started use and beginning to find and try apps for this purpose. Extracting, annotating and writing on this is sweet!
"mainly off-net" is feasible with GrapheneOS because you have granular control over everything (including optional Google Play Services). other versions of Android do shit you don't realize they're doing. ...like potentially phoning home to Daylight about all your activity ..
maybe you just mean "with WiFi off" in which case you'd be safe for as long as it's off.
Thank you!
Basically, we've legally been advised by our lawyers that we had to update the policy for specific different regions (Switzerland, Europe, California) and because we've reached a critical mass of people, and to cover our bases for fundraising. As part of this, we had to be more specific about all the data that lives on our servers is. We never intended to imply this kind of data gets used for any other purpose than error logging and loading and syncing the content in your library. Nor will it ever be used for any other purpose.
If you compare it with the prior policy, you will see they are identical on this point. It's inconvenient that the standardized nature of these policies has implications other than what I'm describing, but it's very expensive to change and we have to be judicious about where we direct our resources. When the time is right, I'm sure we will make all these distinctions more explicit. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I can assure you that as a technical fact, and in terms of the 13 people who work at this company, there isn't any intent or implementation that behaves the way you're concerned about.
A last statement about encryption since you also mention it: the data is not encrypted at rest, so that we can process it for title-generation, length, PDF generation and so on, and so backups and syncs are easy. Every piece of data is e2e encrypted in the same way Signal messages and so on are: over https, the same way your banking information is protected. To encrypt at rest is a major technical undertaking we do intend to get to eventually, and we have put in work there, but it's going to take more time. If you're curious, see
Homomorphic encryption - Wikipedia
Re: privacy, you're saying "trust us". (at the same time as you're on nostr attempting to appeal to a "don't trust, verify" crowd). I understand the legal and resource reasons why you are doing so, but at the end of the day it's still "trust us, we'll be good".
> the data is not encrypted at rest, so that we can process it for title-generation, length, PDF generation and so on, and so backups and syncs are easy
Why not do that generation on-device and sync encrypted data? Is processing data for "title-generation" and "length" really so resource intensive that it must be done in centralized servers? If so, why not allow users to self-host their own services for providing this computation to themselves? Obsidian Sync works this way - that is, you either sync _encrypted-at-rest_ data with the for a fee, or you provider your own sync service - and I've noticed you guys like to be seen as travelling the same seas as Obsidian.
with THEM* for a fee (Obsidian's sync service)
You still haven't addressed, head-on, why the new privacy policy explicitly states that personal data will be shared with affiliates for the purpose of targeted advertising.
If you have no intention of ever doing this, there is no reason to say you _do_ currently do this in your privacy policy.
You may want to reconsider if you value privacy. I was excited about this until I found this thread pointing out data collection on basically everything you do.
vinney...axkl
What the fuck
@Daylight Computer Co ? Are you out of your minds? If you're going to "collect my reading activity and personal notes", at least end-to-end encrypt them and don't harvest them for targeted advertising.
There is absolutely no way I'll be continuing to use you "Reader" software in this context, and you can be sure that if you release a custom OS that has this level of privacy invasion I will not be using it. If that means I can't use the hardware either, then so be it.
This is coming from someone who said the hardware is completely revolutionary and life-changing.
Privacy Policy 2025
Privacy Policy 2025
Daylight Computer Co. Privacy Policy
> Personal information we collect:
> ...Your reading materials, links, and other content you choose to save in the Service, and any notes added to saved documents.
> Automatic collection. As you navigate the Service, our communications, and other online services, we, our service providers and advertising partners may automatically collect identifiable information about you, your computer or device, and your browsing actions and use patterns, such as:
> Page views, pen strokes, reading history, search terms, what videos and other content you view, how long you spent on a page, the website you visited before browsing to the Service, navigation paths between pages, information about your activity on a page
> We, our service providers, and third party advertising partners may collect and use your personal information for the following purposes:
> Direct marketing
> Targeted advertising
What the fuck? I literally can’t use this for work anymore.
Now I understand why they won "best tech"
Damn spyware
Couldn’t wait moved to not a chance.
Might be worth self-hosting your notes at this point.
If I may ask, why did you choose Daylight instead of reMarkable, for example?
Lol, anti-signal award for sure
I already do.
The screen tech is not even close.
I have an epaper device already that I use when I want that experience.
But the refresh rate and zero-blue-light put the Daylight in a category of its own; one I thought I needed. I think I was right, at least on the hardware side.
What in the hell? I had intentions of buying one. Going to have to shelf that plan until this gets sorted out
I have a Ratta Supernote, and as much I as I like it, a normal LCD without a backlight is a very interesting solution
Thanks for sharing this, Vinney. Was really thinking about buying one but not at all interested in a product that has such a gross disregard for personal privacy. Just stick with GrapheneOS on a regular tablet I suppose
E-ink screens don't emit any blue light, actually they don't emit any light unless you turn on the backlight which is necessary only in a really dark environments. On the other side daylight uses LCD panel, well, reflective LCD. It can work without backlight, but only in a really well lit environments. In average use Daylight will emit much more light than the true e-ink display. It has fast refresh rate because, well it's LCD. Stick matte foil on top of the iPad, slide color temperature all the way to more warm and you got yourself a better Daylight.
Daylight cannot emit any blue light at all. iPads still do, even on warmest. and the reflective LCD makes a big difference.
I agree it's not ideal, but it is more desirable in a bunch of situations
The proper response to this particular case would have been: “We should have been more diligent in checking our lawyers recommendations, it’s not in line with our ethos. We are amending the policy now and will post the amendment to more accurately reflect how the data is used”
Not…
“it’s a standard contract”
“our lawyers told us”
Please.
Can everybody trying to break into this community try to understand this community first.
vinney...axkl
What the fuck
@Daylight Computer Co ? Are you out of your minds? If you're going to "collect my reading activity and personal notes", at least end-to-end encrypt them and don't harvest them for targeted advertising.
There is absolutely no way I'll be continuing to use you "Reader" software in this context, and you can be sure that if you release a custom OS that has this level of privacy invasion I will not be using it. If that means I can't use the hardware either, then so be it.
This is coming from someone who said the hardware is completely revolutionary and life-changing.
Privacy Policy 2025
Privacy Policy 2025
Daylight Computer Co. Privacy Policy
> Personal information we collect:
> ...Your reading materials, links, and other content you choose to save in the Service, and any notes added to saved documents.
> Automatic collection. As you navigate the Service, our communications, and other online services, we, our service providers and advertising partners may automatically collect identifiable information about you, your computer or device, and your browsing actions and use patterns, such as:
> Page views, pen strokes, reading history, search terms, what videos and other content you view, how long you spent on a page, the website you visited before browsing to the Service, navigation paths between pages, information about your activity on a page
> We, our service providers, and third party advertising partners may collect and use your personal information for the following purposes:
> Direct marketing
> Targeted advertising
wow, that's a lot of tracking in one device. i do use google alot and they seem to know me better than i know myself, so I'm not one to judge. it's useful at a point. i do like the product idea
when i went to college, i had to buy a tablet PC from windows to satisfy requirement. Bill Gates was excited tablets.
so it would be funny if someone was like, "Bill there's a bunch of people with bitcoin, what do we do to keep track of all of them?"
Bill: "let's release another tablet, except this time it's like a kindle!"
