The original claim in this post has been independently reviewed and verified by real Nostr patriots, and has been determined to be accurate with a high degree of confidence.
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Big if true
Good, HODL Good. Use the Bandwagon Fallacy.
Keep betraying to your following that you lack basic awareness of logic.
Everyone and their mother will throw in exceptions to pat themselves on the back for not being terribly wrong.
But I admire you for having the energy. For me, it's simple, I feel fulfilled as a father and husband, and that's not for debate.
That's great and I'm happy you feel fulfilled in your life.
Now, be fair, and look for counterexamples to HODL's claim.
There exist people who feel fulfilled in the unmarried and childless life they have.
You bear the name of a religious man.
You know...there are lots of enlightened monks who are unmarried and have no children.
Happiness is subjective, not one size fits all.
As a Bitcoiner and as an Austrian economist, it's pathetic that people don't recognize that fact.
I'll fully authenticate and validate the original claim. Most unmarried and un-familied folk have no dimensional awareness of what is available in family
Firm believer in free will.
I have personally ambitions of marriage and a big family.
That being said nobody has the authority to state that you have to follow predetermined laws of so-called objective truths that are required in order to make you happy.
"You have to take seriously the notion that understanding the universe is your responsibility, because the only understanding of the universe that will be useful to
you is your own understanding."
Personal*
Whoops.
I ran the experiment and can attest it's true
I would expect you to run. Surrender is the French playbook, non?
Truth doesn’t need my permission to be true. I just refuse to pretend otherwise.
It’s true
Tolstoy’s Anna Karenina does a fantastic job exploring this idea. Long book but totally worth the time.
Welcome to the conversation. You're late and confused so allow me to catch you up.
A lot of people on NOSTR are apparently idiots when it comes to logic and language so let me explicitly lay out my position:
I'm not anti-marriage.
I'm not anti-children.
I'm not anti-family.
The original claim that HODL made was "Marriage and family is essential for a full and happy life."
Paraphrasing the claim into If-Then statemene:
IF a person is to live a full and happy life, THEN that person must live a married life and build a family'.
That claim is false. For one thing, happiness is subjective. As an example, masochists exist and what gives masochists happiness, if delivered to non-masochists, would yield the opposite of happiness. I'm not a masochist but I can understand how one-size-fits-all doesn't fly merely as a result of that one example.
There are people who are contending with wartime injuries, workplace injuries, psychological traumas, childhood abuse, and straight up sterility that might prevent them from having kids. Not every being is meant to reproduce.
The reason I fired a shot at HODL is because his statement was incredibly cruel to people who, for reasons beyond their control, cannot have children, even though they would love to have children. I'm thinking about them and how they would feel reading HODL's post. He's an asshole pumping his own bags trying to seek validation from a bunch of morons online because despite his successes, he's still got a huge hole in his life that he doesn't know how to fill. Maybe if he wasn't such a fake Christian, that hole would fill.
Yes. You get it.
All he needed to do was alter the statement a little bit.
Basically as soon as I disagreed, HODL and his merry band of idiot followers chose to interpret my position as being the negation of what I stated above about marriage, children, and family.
Once the idiots misinterpreted the basis of the dispute, it quickly devolved into a shitshow.
My guess is that Nostr has a high population of (mostly former) X users. They're not used to having full conversations, and prefer to jump to conclusions and react before getting any clarification or understanding.
Maybe after enough years on Nostr, they'll become human again. Until then, it's best to mute, or ignore, people that prefer bashing someone before being informed.
Speaking from personal experience, I didn't learn about logical fallacies until I was in my 30s and I'm an applied mathematician by degree.
One would think that logical fallacies would have been covered in pursuit of mathematics, computer science, law, and philosophy degrees but no.
I had to learn about them from a home schooled engineer with whom I worked.
I don't think it is in the interests of the hegemons to teach the plebs how to discern the manipulation tactics used by hegemons to control plebs, so such forms of discernment are omitted intentionally from government (and religious) school curricula.
Let's hope that people continue to level themselves up with time. The alternative is Idiocracy. I'm at peace with being muted by idiots, and I'm happy to mute them in return. That eliminates some amount of friction in my interactions on NOSTR going forward.
Appreciate your perspective. In the shitshow that was yesterday, a few good ones, such as yourself, emerged from the dog pile.
Ironically, I learned about critical thinking in Catholic school.
I've been starting to notice in the last two years how much our public indoctrination schools have impacted society as a whole by omitting the teachings of discernment and logic.
You are a racist 🤣
This
You could write a book on that and I would read it. Genuinely
I am also a Catholic school product.
I remember learning about ad hominem but I don't remember learning the others. Perhaps I missed the class where that was covered but I doubt it.
I facilitate some weekly study groups every Sunday and one of the things we make sure to cover every week is one logical fallacy.
If we are to love our neighbors, we must be open and receptive to them.
Being open and receptive can be dangerous though, so it is best to first armor up with robust discernment.
That way we can explore confidently and engage with our neighbors without fear.
I’m starting to think this pattern of interaction is a natural outgrowth from this format of internet interaction. It’s such a hook, and I fear it’ll just grow on Nostr, just as it thrives on Twitter.
Make a purity statement > act appalled when people have reasonable disagreements with the totality of the statement > frame all pushback as diametrical opposition and usually proof of moral corruption.
Then just keep picking at the scab as long as it gets attention.
Conversations like this are just kinda buried.
It’ll keep happening because it works.
Your whole take on this is purely subjective nostr influencer trash. But, you do you.
It's in the chorus of the study group's theme song :)
Welcome Aboard
Listen and make your own on Suno.
Schools need to take a much more significant
Whoops.
Schools need to take a much more foremost approach to understanding the potential malbehaviors that can surface from herd mentality. In short: too large a herd can possibly lead to --> too much attention --> too much validation --> "I can never be wrong" --> "I am likely smarter than most" --> lack of understanding or indifference regarding others' perspectives and experience
i wonder if phones promote the subconscious idea of talking to yourself because typed words are voiceless, silent, if you dont have context for that person.
for example, ive shared that now i can read odell's words in his voice cos i caught that podcast episode
if you dont have more sense references like that, the sound of someone's voice, maybe subconsciously it is like talking to your reflection, any disagreement is as weird as your own reflection in the mirror moving independently of you. it shouldnt be possible. an error. shortens people's fuses?
what im saying is inspired by the notion that i do not experience behavior like this when talking to someone on the phone
clubhouse too, all sound based. people spoke more to eachother not at eachother because there was constant feedback you were not them
text color change might really help? like i am the blue text in this convo, they are green, thus not me. instead of all white text black background?
I had to look it up. It's referred to as "Illusory Superiority". Too many influencers, like him, display these behavioral characteristics.
I think it’s more the clout farming aspect. Even in this example, communicating in a thread directly with hodl, outside of the main thread arena…he knows what’s going on and knows everyone with a disagreement isn’t brainwashed or whatever…it’s just part of the social media game.
But yes, aside from that, voice based communication would naturally lead to more patience and empathy I think.
Speaking about the American public school system, that was brought to the US by Horace Mann from Prussia. The Prussian education model was essentially an NPC factory. The goal was to produce graduates who were optimally suited for government clerkships, military service, or factory work, and all graduates would be of the same general opinion on all matters of import from that day and age.
Schools teach people what to think, not how to think and that's why the internet is a shitshow of the blind leading the blind.
And here we are, still convinced, that a nearly two century-old "education" system is the best way to create a happy life. No wonder so few lack effective critical thinking calabilities. I am VERY happy to see homeschooling becoming a more prominent approach, though.
I genuinely believe most people are brain washed actually
Most people have never been trained to actually think. At least not critically.
I used to teach critical thinking and math to students of all ages at a supplemental learning center for years.
My students won awards at national math and critical thinking test competitions every year in increasing quantities.
Other than the students who earned medals, all of my students, as a whole, outperformed both national and international averages every year in increasingly larger margins each year.
Our learning center was the exact opposite of the Prussian model. We didn't treat our students in a one-size-fits-all way. We neurologically profiled each of our students to inform our efforts to lovingly tailor the curriculum and our interactions to each unique individual in ways best suited for their development and success.
I used to teach critical thinking and math to students of all ages at a supplemental learning center for years.
My students won awards at national math and critical thinking test competitions every year in increasing quantities.
Other than the students who earned medals, all of my students, as a whole, outperformed both national and international averages every year in increasingly larger margins each year.
Our learning center was the exact opposite of the Prussian model. We didn't treat our students in a one-size-fits-all way. We neurologically profiled each of our students to inform our efforts to lovingly tailor the curriculum and our interactions to each unique individual in ways best suited for their development and success.
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the tone of it is the problem. encouraging it, saying it's good, that's fine. saying it's bad if you don't? not without qualification based on extenuating circumstances.
especially due to the deliberate destruction of the familial social fabric prosecuted by the communists for the last 100 years, especially women have become extremely unsuitable mentally for motherhood, and you can't waste your time with that, and if she's all about her "muh independence and strong woman blah fucking bitch nonsense" she's not going to be a good wife, or a good mother, and in some cases, she will be the next in the parade of oppressors for a person who was broken like those of us are who never were able to arrange even finding a suitable partner let alone actually being able to make the commitment.
i've never had money. that's a big one right there. i don't mean for a vain bitch who wants diamonds and pedicures, i mean just simply, she can't work, if she is to be a mother. her job is being a mother, for that time.
good luck finding women like that anywhere. you don't have to look far to discover that more than half of the (eligible) population is hypnotised consumer drones full of their own coolness and utterly unconcerned with anything that matters.
This is a tool I set up for myself to use that helps quite a bit.
Google Docs
Critical Thinking One Page.pdf
After whatever this was I engaged in, I couldn’t agree more.
Do you still keep in contact with the center? I'm only asking because I'm curious if the educational quality has stayed the same, degraded, or has perhaps improved. Sometimes it degrades when a larger number students begin attending. Not always, of course.
My kids attend a co-op that uses a unit study-based curricula system. In the usage of neurological profiling per individual student, it's very similar to what you described.
I like it. Really good stuff.
I only have one minor nit to pick which is the middle line of the mnemonic: Laughter Always Helps.
I understand the sentiment and agree that if people remain in a state of good humor, that can do wonders to cut tension. On the other hand, Saul Alinsky's 5th rule for radicals is that ridicule is man's most potent weapon. Alinsky said "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."
When a person is skillful and loving with humor, it is water on the fire, but when a person is being derisive and ridiculous, it is fuel on the fire.
Between you, me, and HODL, I can say for sure that one of us possesses robust critical thinking skills.
I used to teach critical thinking and math to students of all ages at a supplemental learning center for years.
My students won awards at national math and critical thinking test competitions every year in increasing quantities.
Other than the students who earned medals, all of my students, as a whole, outperformed both national and international averages every year in increasingly larger margins each year.
Our learning center was the exact opposite of the Prussian model. We didn't treat our students in a one-size-fits-all way. We neurologically profiled each of our students to inform our efforts to lovingly tailor the curriculum and our interactions to each unique individual in ways best suited for their development and success.
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[3am dorm conversation intensifies]
Depends on how loosely you define the term. Maybe. Maybe we’re all inside a simulation and everyone’s just LLMs with slightly different training data.
This is kinda profound
That center no longer exists. The director shut it down over a decade ago.
There was a non-compete agreement.
After the non-compete agreement's period had elapsed, a new center was opened.
I've helped out there a few times but that was years ago.
As far as I know, the director is still excellent at diagnosing, profiling, and teaching when it comes to students but the director has other issues (emotional, political, social, and financial issues to name a few) that compel me to avoid the new center.
You're right that scaling was a major issue with which we had to contend. The scaling requires high quality teachers who are well trained, observant, and insightful. Obviously people like that are not typically interested in working for $15/hour with no benefits. That meant we were stuck trying to develop talented high schoolers to serve as classroom instructors which worked but, understandably, led to significant rates of employee turnover which means new trainees and more time sunk into training them every few years.
This a whole lot to say so little. You're being pedantic and unable or unwilling to see what he's at: marriage and kids are normative because they're fulfilling in and add a dimension to life that is irreplaceable; not to mention it's the best way to sustain civilization . Are people unable or unwilling to get married for a variety of reasons? Yes. Should this be the norm? No.
Bitcoiners are no exception, i hope you understand this. And most aren't brainwashed, they just lack efficient critical thinking skills which could, in turn, make them more susceptible to a form of more severe mental manipulation like "brainwashing" or indoctrination–whichever term you prefer.
Let's get one thing straight. Words mean things.
If HODL used words imprecisely, that's on him.
It's not the referee's fault that the player committed the foul.
This is not new. In contract law, ambiguity in the contract favors the party who did not draw up the contract.
You are responsible for the words you use. So is HODL. He spoke imprecisely and unfairly.
Thank you for agreeing that he fucked up and needs to communicate more precisely.
Fyi, saying that you believe most are "brainwashed" is a form of self-indocrination in itself. Most people know that fiat is consistently losing purchasing power, most are aware of the endless levels of geopolitical drama that's occurring on the global chessboard we occupy, and most are at least aware of Bitcoin's existence. The issue is that most don't understand how to opt out or, in Bitcoin's case, opt in.
You just articulated the reason that basically every religion on the planet has a variation of the golden rule.
It's about putting yourself into the other person's perspective in order to understand them better which informs us on how to treat them as they would like to be treated.
If humans were excellent at this, every religion wouldn't be trying to teach it because that would be redundant.
Have fun staying spiritually poor
😉
I’m not the first to think of it then.
It is a constant struggle for me. I keep failing but hope I never give up.
This is part of a book I'm writing on wealth based systems helping to build a Living Civilization.
Bro no one is aware of any of that shit
I wonder how many or if any of those students became teachers at similar centers.
Lol i hope he can comprehend this.
Jumble
A user-friendly Nostr client for exploring relay feeds
That is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
If you really think “most people know that fiat is consistently losing purchasing power?” You’re in a bubble. Most people don’t even know what fiat is.
Ah, yes, I forgot the Bible says to take claims in social media posts as serious as possible, as legal contracts even. Seek the Truth from the LORD through His word in the Bible and you won't be rattled by social media like this. Seriously and sincerely.
🙋 i dont know what fiat it
it sounds like a car
like a mazda
You don't need to know the term "fiat" to be aware that the currency being used is losing purchasing power🙄. Uh no. You're the one in a bubble. Hanging out with too many like-minded people who just agree with each other all day. That's fine though. All btc maxis have a tendency to be like this.
It seems like a millenial thing to make a big deal about having children. People in past generations just had children because it was a biological imperative akin to breathing oxygen.
Maybe because millenials have grown up with social media they see the need to virtue signal about everything. I'm guessing becuase of the parenting style they had where they got a participation trophy for everything they did.
Not sure if my take is correct but it just seems odd to me the way people these days make a virtue of something that every other generation in human history took for granted.
Teaching the Trivium can help 😀
Yup.
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It’s more like the fact that very few of our fellow millennials have children compared to past generations. I just met up with a buddy who was one of 6, out of all of his brothers and sisters he’s the only one with kids.
Wow...a sarcastic logical fallacy. That's impressive.
On one hand, you know that fiat is bullshit, yet on the other hand, you fawn to that which is labeled "canonical".
How do you manage to tolerate such a massive amount of cognitive dissonance?
Where does the Bible say about microwaves or multi-sig or VPNs or the square root of 1764?
If the Bible doesn't talk about it, then it has no value, right?
Which book of the Bible is the Bitcoin whitepaper in again?
What absurdly childish logic...seriously and sincerely.
Argument from authority is a logical fallacy.
Most people don’t even know that man, they know that things are getting more “expensive” but they attribute it to corporate greed or other false explanations. Very few are aware of the fact that their momey is eroding. That’s part of the illusion that keeps it going.
Fiat means "by decree" or, in other words, "because we said so" where "we" presents itself as some kind of authority.
right and i know it is related to no longer on the gold standard but i dont know what it ~means~ like the 27 years of thinking to arrive fully at the meaning the cascade
like the difference between being in italian class and a teacher calling on you and you memorized the sentence so you can say it versus being able to think in the language and make the sentence
that i have memorized answers does not mean i know a damn thing is what im saying
im not sure erosion is inherently compelling as a threat.
i once tried to invent a new kind of money and even called my econnomics phd friend about it in like 2012 and the central part of it was that it ~did~ rot, you couldnt hoard
like a store of potatoes for a season, it wasnt if some is good more is better
there was such a thing as too much and didnt get thru them all and now your potatoes are rotten and moldy in the cellar
Corporate greed is a genuine issue that is, in some ways, seperate from currency valuation. And it is still a contributing factor. Sure, there are some false explanations that circulate but those can be debunked with enough self-education... much like how many of my friends and family have done. You underestimate how many people are actually aware of the fact that their currency is getting continuously debased. Lol YOU ARE IN A BUBBLE. These people who are unaware may be a majority percentage, but i feel you believe like 95% of the global population remain oblivious.
The Bible refetences the square root of 1764 in Kings 2:24, twice!
"Elisha curses a group of youths mocking him, and the text states:"And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth TWO AND FORTY children of the bears out of the wood, and tare FORTY AND TWO of them."
🤣.
I love math jokes, And posts about logical fallacies, definitions and logic. Agree or disagree, I find your grammar, logic and rhetoric solid. 👍
Think about a simple gold coin.
Think about the cost that goes into producing that coin.
Think about the manpower and special mining equipment and the land and the energy inputs and material inputs that are necessary to extract just the gold ore from the earth.
Think about how much money that all costs.
Then the ore has to be transported to some refinery. Transportation energy and manpower and equipment are more costs.
The refinery runs on land, energy, manpower, and materials so that's more costs.
Once the gold is refined, it still has to be coined. The coining process requires land, equipment, energy, and manpower so, again, that's more costs.
Then the coins have to be sold and transported to middlemen and gold retailers. More transportation costs.
The middlemen, the coiners, the refiners, and the miners aren't doing this for no profit either, so there's profit margins baked into all of these costs.
Gold is valuable too, so the refinery, coinery, transports, and resellers all have security costs.
All of that cost gets averaged out and baked into the selling price of 1 Troy ounce of gold. So, right now, it costs roughly $4,000 USD to do all of that and produce a gold coin.
That valuation is not by decree. That valuation is simple accounting for costs associated with the process that is the business model.
Now compare that gold coin worth $4,000 and compare it to a stack of 40 $100 bills which we are told is equal in value to that gold coin.
Why is that stack of paper as valuable as that gold coin?
It's much cheaper to print the paper money than it is to create gold coins, right?
That makes paper money "easy" money and gold "hard" money.
Typically the best money is the hardest money. People, over time, figure this out. The people who stick to easy money become victims of debasement as the money they use will get printed.
Naturally, people are going to be drawn to harder money so then why would we use money that is legislated by some supposed authority by decree (fiat)?
The decree is necessary because without it, the people would use the hardest money. The people making the decree do not want the people to use the hardest money. The people making the decree want the people to use a form of easy money over which the people making the decree have monopolistic power and control.
Yes, money needs to be durable.
You might appreciate this letter I wrote a couple of years ago after my local mayor reached out and brought a bill that was concerning.
https://medium.com/@redtailhawk1923/vote-no-on-mo-hb-1165-32fb158c9689
Well said. Personally, i believe HODL is underestimating how many people are actively looking for a new currency and money to use.
For some it may be too late😬. He's seems lile your typical angry maxi who gets his panties in a bunch whenever someone disagrees. Oh well...
I'll check it out after dinner.
thank you for writing all of this redtailhawk it means a lot and it was easy to follow along and comprehend
@HODL is a good man. He's not typical, he's not angry, he doesn't wear panties and he doesn't care who disagrees with him...
but he is a maxi.
the projection in the people who reply to your posts is absolutely insane
I never said i respect maxis. He's still too far too narrow-minded with his approach, though.
Welcome to the Internet lol
Ask the average person on the street what backs the dollar. A majority of them will tell you gold.
I’m definitely a maxi but I’m not angry. I don’t care if you own shitcoins or whatever. It’s your money.
The best first approximation is that nobody knows anything
I've asked plenty! Not on the street, but places that i visit. None know for certain and many just say that it "used to be backed by gold". Most just think that money is money and that we have to find a better one. Many are looking into the real estate and crypto market, atm. That almost always leads to them finding bitcoin. They are not oblivious to the fact that bitcoin has outpaced gold in the past five years. They observe very well. They're open to suggestions.
I have never shitcoined. Hodling since 2017.
Fyi, I'm a maxi too...
speaking of which, I saw this gold coin at the Perth Mint yesterday. 1012 kg 99.99% pure with a face value of $1M AUD, and gold value of ca. $200M AUD. By my rough calcs that is ca. $30 USD/oz face value. FDR would love it...then confiscate it. 
In that case, I guess you don't really stand behind this sarcastic jab.
"Ah, yes, I forgot the Bible says to take claims in social media posts as serious as possible, as legal contracts even."
The implication here, is that if the Bible doesn't say to do it we shouldn't do it.
I don't think the Bible told you to post on NOSTR today so...
Is that the implication? Or is it a matter of understanding the principle of what is being taught? Like understanding what is poetry, or law, or parable. Each serves a purpose of course. But keep digging, God willing you'll get there if He allows it.