Replies (76)
Again being disingenuous. It's never been contiguous data, and you know that is the distinction, obviously.
That's irrelevant, but I welcome anyone who disagrees to hire legal counsel and have them publish an actual legal opinion. I'm not interested in the opinion of folks LARPing as lawyers.
GFY you liar. We've been vocally pissed off about spam for years. Its not new.
I don't give a fuck about the law, I don't want VLC playable contiguous bytes on my goddamn server. You aren't arguing on twitter here Lopp, people know shit here. You think nerds can't see through your perverse incentive bullshit?
Legally you’re probably right - even data in chunks can be turned into a visual. But why would you want to make it easier for anyone to abuse?
Oh good, then we agree it's not an actual threat.
I have bad news for you, however: Bitcoin doesn't care about your feelings.
Your reading comprehension is terrible. Read his post again slowly and you will discover your comment is dumb.
What? I thought ppl have been saying that for years
Yeah, that's why I use implementations that don't pass along your smut. Also, why does it even matter Citrea uses fake keys for your Rollup Vitalik wannabe bullshit, OP_RETURN doesn't even affect your bottom line. (Unless you are a fed that is)
Bitcoin doesn't care about your feelings, too.
Or your conflicts of interest with citrea.
An amusing aspect and something to think about is people like you having the need to come out with public disingenuous statements about something that is supposed that have no effect.
It is a threat though and it’s odd that you wouldn’t know it. Having your data directly visible vs fragmented is flying it close to the sun legally speaking. You could argue you didn’t know about it - but all that it takes to negate this is someone tweeting then going CP in an op return. At least fragmenting gives you some plausible deniability regarding the “knowing” aspect.
You're coping with ridiculous pretzel logic. Your node will still download and share said smut after it arrives in a block. Even if you run Knots.
I enjoy posting controversial opinions that I expect will age well over the long term.
Har har, you are so superior
Is MARA going to put CP into blocks? Are you telling me that's an actual risk?
Lmao
Always has been...
Then I and others will expose the Miner responsible for distributing CSAM. Irreparable reputational damage. You are the pretzel here, filters don't work, that's why you have to disable them on the policy level... Yeah, real sound logic there.
Go for it.
Bitcoin as a system doesn't give a shit about reputation, it pays whoever mints a valid block.
There is a distinction here: whether it is fragmented or whole. Legally whole likely makes you more complicit than fragmented. I doubt it’ll stand up in court, but the case could be made. And that’s a risk. Surprised core does not wargame these types of scenarios with their updates …
I'm into blockchain dick pics, myself. 👌
A slight risk sure. But a much smaller risk than just anyone, unvetted by a regulated company with a brand image to uphold, putting whatever they want onchain. Mechanic has a very good point there. And once again you are ignoring all arguments. You take 0 responsibility in your position at Core.
Because they’re paid off to support the changes by the VCs with alterior motives to support their business endeavors
This is beside the fact that Knots is not an anti-spam implementation. It's a highly configurable implementation, and you lie about that too to hide the fact that you are being intellectually dishonest to take away configuration options and to arbitrate the majority of mempool policies to the way you see fit, as if you think for everyone else. It is fraud of a sort, once you silence discussion and misrepresent the facts like you have been.
Again, disingenuous. Bitcoin doesn't care about any of our feelings, but you just said you care about lawyers feelings.
Damn, that Ivory tower really detatches people from reality. People are still made of flesh. A reputation of what you're describing, you would be far more paranoid than you already are. Bitcoin is only money not a force-field.
That, plus he's evil. Perfectly willing to lie to everyone to achieve parasitic goals.
A lot of Core are philosophically illiterate too. They don't really understand what makes Bitcoin work on a fundamental level. And that is private property.
And they don't know how to reason in reality. They don't see the whole picture. They can't do the logical calculus of so many moving parts and they just assume, which is itself a kind of evil.
No, a lawyer is essentially an engineer of the code that comprises the State. I'm interested in actual State based attack vectors upon Bitcoiners. I don't care about lawyers feelings, I care about how legal code could be executed.
Youre a shit stirrer that causes division for your own ends. Youre a disgrace to this movement
@Jameson Lopp from a purely selfish point of view, is it better or worse for me as a pleb node runner to have to store more arbitrary data on my node. I just can’t see how it’s better for me. It definitely feels worse that the option to filter has been removed.
state secrets and illegal pictures are already embedded in the blockchain using much older protocols like stamps. the data is unprunable. no matter which node software you use to synchronize you are already dirtying your hands with this stuff and you can't prevent it.
there are probably illegal samples of data embedded in the trading history of low volume penny stocks on the stock market. it's not possible to prevent people from embedding and propagating arbitrary data in a public append-only database system. you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. if you are so disturbed by the possibility, you need to put bitcoin down and find a different computer hobby. you clearly don't understand how any of this stuff works.
Bitcoin is for shit stirrers 👌
Did you not read the first comment? Contiguous data is different. You should put nostr down, you clearly can't read.
Thanks for clarifying. Fair enough.
>contiguous data is different
Since you won't read my citation anyway I'll just suffice it to say, take your favorite CSAM, that I'm sure you have, convert the MP4 to bytes and then have a program like VLC read it. Then chop the file into several chunks with OP code identifiers, data signal and length bytes and see if VLC does the same thing. Later tard.
I don't hate people for being illogical, but I do try to stem the spread of rhetoric that plays on people's emotions.
From a resources standpoint you're basically talking about the block size limit, which remains unchanged. With regard to OP_RETURN data like what's currently being discussed, it actually imposes less resource costs upon your node in terms of CPU usage, bandwidth usage, and hard disk usage.
That's because OP_RETURN data does not receive a discount like witness data.
So they have lowered themselves to the level of the European Union - ChatControl
I actually provided a great way for filterors to prove their point yesterday.
BSV allows 1 GB OP_RETURN data and it even already has CSAM content in its blockchain.
As such, it should be a simple matter for folks to prove this is a real attack vector by applying it to BSV node runners and killing the network.
That would be extremely strong evidence that the concerns are valid!
Why is the default filter at v30 so large... Essentially removed, it was not always like that... Fix the filters at v30
did you actually suggest illegal files become legal when they are segmented
the answer to "people make valid transactions I don't like" is OFAC compliance. they are slow but eventually they will figure it out. it's staring them in the face
Are you really unable to read, I was kind of joking but I think you may need help.
A quote from me, literally in this thread: "I don't give a fuck about the law"
I hope you are able to read this 🙏
ah yes, all this concern because the illegal files in your knots node are just in the "wrong" format
I see why you like children, you think like them.
🤣😂🤣
This only works if you also filter out non-OP_RETURN arbitrary data, which you are against, ya jackass.
I have higher data carrier limits than typical, at 160, because that's what I reasoned was the best policy. 83 bytes might actually be better as it is the standing tradition, and projects can optimize for that. Either way, I DON'T GET TO DICTATE THE SETTING FOR OTHER PEOPLE. So the fact that most people relay only up to 83 bytes or less, is a check against my assessment that 160 bytes is fine.
This is all besides the fact that your stated goals regarding miner centralization, like many other BS arguments you and your team put out, are a lie, as these goals would be better served by (A) engaging in an intellectually honest way and (B) embracing DATUM and advocating the use of or creation of competitors to OCEAN.
I would not ask Jameson LARP for insight into my concerns, personally. His entire persona is a facade.
Tell the feds the truth: Knots can relay CSAM thru the witness data which has a 400kb limit
It gives me the feeling that you are desperately looking for attention and your only way to get it is this, you seem very lonely
Go outside, touch the grass and look for friends.
They find this amusing. Not surprised.
A noteworthy difference tho.
Pre-nuked OP_RETURN: you need specialised tools and expertise to reconstruct dozens if not hundreds of fake pubkey utxos to reconstruct and see a CP file from the blockchain. Plausible deniability.
Post-nuked OP_RETURN: you get the CP file in its bare state. No excuses will gonna cut it. GG
View quoted note →Your Casa Nodes were complete crap.
You are not an Authority on Nodes, or over them.
“That's because OP_RETURN data does not receive a discount like witness data”
So what is the incentive to use OP_RETURN then?
Do you know you can earn daily from mining?, send me a dm
Oh really? How do they remove the sig push bytes? Because it's all contiguous right? Or else you wouldn't say something so stupid.
Does it matter if it’s contiguous? We’re trying to protect the kids here Jack
That's the neat part, there isn't! Well, for larger than about 143 bytes IIRC. Bigger than that and it's cheaper to do witness stuffing.
I went for a nice motorcycle ride earlier and am currently posting this while suspended between trees in a hammock. 🤗
you forgot the "i sucked a mans cock for money" part... but ok.
Dude, yeah that's the whole point, obscuring data. It's not about the kids, it's about disgusting filth or general 100 KB files from a stranger being loaded. In no other context would a sane person do that.
The only way you see disgusting filth is if you actively choose to render the bytes into images.
Anyway. I agree: gross graffiti is not a good thing. I can even understand the concern about Bitcoin turning into something else completely… we’re very clearly on a similar mission to have it used as money. I am taking a different, and in my view a **far more productive** approach to addressing this problem.
The larger point is this: no matter how many transactions Knots nodes relay in the network, if there is a MARKET for “arbitrary” transactions they will ALWAYS exist unless you change consensus rules- which would break Bitcoin in far worse ways than spam ever could.
Therefore, the **best** counterforce to undesirable transactions is to BUILD things that create DEMAND for the types of transactions you want to see on the chain.
It is not productive to virtue signal against policies designed to curtail the MARKET FORCES which created an actual spam problem in the first place. The witness stuffing spam is what created oversized blocks and threatened decentralization. Normalizing out-of-band transactions is also a huge fucking problem in my opinion as it threatens permissionlessness.
This never had anything to do with OP_RETURN but most people don’t know the difference thanks to some fear mongerer whipping them up into a frenzy. I get the concerns about creating a market for non-monetary transactions… but it’s better than losing decentralization and permissionlessness: so let’s do our job and make money **compete** in the market for blockspace again.
I understand what you are saying directionally, but there are a few breaks in logic here:
Filters do work, or else people wouldn't be so upset that some people use them.
Using a filter is a market action, all human action is.
I would submit that it is about OP_RETURN because it was the first placation to spam and arbitrary data that caused this escalation.
Prior to making op return a standard transaction within certain byte parameters, it simply was not propagated to other nodes when an op return transaction was found.
OP_RETURN was given to spammers as the less bad option, but I completely disagree. Eventually, the UTXO set will be "bloated" anyway, from use and the increased value of Bitcoin as money. Let spammers use fake keys to compete with monetary transactions. I see that as perfectly fine.
this post shows your clear lack of understanding of the attack, exploit, and how this all started and came here years ago.
but based on people you hangout with i can even say that, you might be trying to corrupt bitcoin on purpose because of your hatred of it.
and idk if your followers will ever catch up to see the lack of logic in your deceitful arguments.
you had time to change but since you showed no signs of growth, at this point its clearly you are destructive on purpose. you are a threat to bitcoin, and you should get what you deserve.
Appreciate the depth here. I want to avoid going in circles… and at this point don’t have anything productive to say back besides that I am personally not upset by people choosing their node implementation. In fact that’s a good thing IMO.
My reaction to the current discourse is against the fear mongering and “othering”. It’s not a good look for what I otherwise hope are intelligent people. We may disagree but you seem to have valid reasons to dislike the Core approach at this junction outside of any tribalism.
I think it's because nobody was talking about child porn until suddenly some anti knots people brought it up for some bizarre reason, kinda shooting themselves in the foot by trying to argue that core is better because it allows this and allowing horrible shit somehow makes it less edgy to share it
I do remember in the past, years ago, when the main issue about spammers was that it would bloat things so much normal people wouldn't be able to afford big enough hard drives to run nodes.
I remember back then that preventing child porn being put on the blockchain was also part of the discussion, back then.
But the problem seemed solved until core Devs decided to go against the community recently.
Like if you are having trouble understanding I can break it down right now right.
So allowing spam will make it more expensive for people to run nodes, that is the main argument against spam.
Allowing child porn will make it ILLEGAL FOR PEOPLE TO RUN NODES.
now this is the crazy part right, allowing spam also means allowing child porn.
Nice post showing how dumb the core side is. Small tiny shit pictures of a couple of bytes are just annoying and retarded on a monetry blockchain, but with the upcoming 100kb pictures it will be possible to post pics of much higher ress, making real bad stuf possible.
Fuck you.
any public record can be turned into a store for arbitrary jpegs. You just need to XOR it to the pic and make the result available
Ur retarded
You look like a window licking imbicil that tells others people they are dumb.
