Huge milestone: First demo of Nostr Web Services (NWS) bringing TCP to Nostr. With NWS, you can host any existing web application on Nostr without having to use DNS or even announce your public IP to the world, simply by sharing your service's npub (or nprofile). Try it out the demo yourself. Here is a Cashu test mint running with NWS. Let's use curl to retrieve the mint's information. The request travels from your computer to the public NWS entry relay, then through nostr to the service's NWS exit relay. At the other end is a Cashu mint with HTTPS encryption. ``` curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq ``` image I can't stress this enough: THE MINT RUNS BEHIND HTTPS! The NWS entry relay can't read your traffic. It's encrypted. We can host public entry relays that can be used by anyone. This means we can plug the entire internet to it 🌐. Let's plug it into Cashu for now. Nutshell wallet supports socks5 proxies (that's how it uses Tor). By setting the public entry relay as the proxy, the wallet can now connect to a mint's npub/nprofile and communicate with it via NWS. image This is going to be so freaking cool. And it's going to be a lot more useful than just for Cashu. There are still bugs and issues that need to be ironed out but the code is coming out soon. Watch this space.

Replies (131)

This is amazing! I wonder if a privoxy rule will match a hostname starting with npub and nprofile and forward it to the socks5 relay like it does with .onion hostnames
cool
calle's avatar calle
Huge milestone: First demo of Nostr Web Services (NWS) bringing TCP to Nostr. With NWS, you can host any existing web application on Nostr without having to use DNS or even announce your public IP to the world, simply by sharing your service's npub (or nprofile). Try it out the demo yourself. Here is a Cashu test mint running with NWS. Let's use curl to retrieve the mint's information. The request travels from your computer to the public NWS entry relay, then through nostr to the service's NWS exit relay. At the other end is a Cashu mint with HTTPS encryption. ``` curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq ``` image I can't stress this enough: THE MINT RUNS BEHIND HTTPS! The NWS entry relay can't read your traffic. It's encrypted. We can host public entry relays that can be used by anyone. This means we can plug the entire internet to it 🌐. Let's plug it into Cashu for now. Nutshell wallet supports socks5 proxies (that's how it uses Tor). By setting the public entry relay as the proxy, the wallet can now connect to a mint's npub/nprofile and communicate with it via NWS. image This is going to be so freaking cool. And it's going to be a lot more useful than just for Cashu. There are still bugs and issues that need to be ironed out but the code is coming out soon. Watch this space.
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🤯👀🥰🔥👌🏼
calle's avatar calle
Huge milestone: First demo of Nostr Web Services (NWS) bringing TCP to Nostr. With NWS, you can host any existing web application on Nostr without having to use DNS or even announce your public IP to the world, simply by sharing your service's npub (or nprofile). Try it out the demo yourself. Here is a Cashu test mint running with NWS. Let's use curl to retrieve the mint's information. The request travels from your computer to the public NWS entry relay, then through nostr to the service's NWS exit relay. At the other end is a Cashu mint with HTTPS encryption. ``` curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq ``` image I can't stress this enough: THE MINT RUNS BEHIND HTTPS! The NWS entry relay can't read your traffic. It's encrypted. We can host public entry relays that can be used by anyone. This means we can plug the entire internet to it 🌐. Let's plug it into Cashu for now. Nutshell wallet supports socks5 proxies (that's how it uses Tor). By setting the public entry relay as the proxy, the wallet can now connect to a mint's npub/nprofile and communicate with it via NWS. image This is going to be so freaking cool. And it's going to be a lot more useful than just for Cashu. There are still bugs and issues that need to be ironed out but the code is coming out soon. Watch this space.
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👀👀👀
calle's avatar calle
Huge milestone: First demo of Nostr Web Services (NWS) bringing TCP to Nostr. With NWS, you can host any existing web application on Nostr without having to use DNS or even announce your public IP to the world, simply by sharing your service's npub (or nprofile). Try it out the demo yourself. Here is a Cashu test mint running with NWS. Let's use curl to retrieve the mint's information. The request travels from your computer to the public NWS entry relay, then through nostr to the service's NWS exit relay. At the other end is a Cashu mint with HTTPS encryption. ``` curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq ``` image I can't stress this enough: THE MINT RUNS BEHIND HTTPS! The NWS entry relay can't read your traffic. It's encrypted. We can host public entry relays that can be used by anyone. This means we can plug the entire internet to it 🌐. Let's plug it into Cashu for now. Nutshell wallet supports socks5 proxies (that's how it uses Tor). By setting the public entry relay as the proxy, the wallet can now connect to a mint's npub/nprofile and communicate with it via NWS. image This is going to be so freaking cool. And it's going to be a lot more useful than just for Cashu. There are still bugs and issues that need to be ironed out but the code is coming out soon. Watch this space.
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Does that mean the mint is on the phone? 🤔
calle's avatar calle
Huge milestone: First demo of Nostr Web Services (NWS) bringing TCP to Nostr. With NWS, you can host any existing web application on Nostr without having to use DNS or even announce your public IP to the world, simply by sharing your service's npub (or nprofile). Try it out the demo yourself. Here is a Cashu test mint running with NWS. Let's use curl to retrieve the mint's information. The request travels from your computer to the public NWS entry relay, then through nostr to the service's NWS exit relay. At the other end is a Cashu mint with HTTPS encryption. ``` curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq ``` image I can't stress this enough: THE MINT RUNS BEHIND HTTPS! The NWS entry relay can't read your traffic. It's encrypted. We can host public entry relays that can be used by anyone. This means we can plug the entire internet to it 🌐. Let's plug it into Cashu for now. Nutshell wallet supports socks5 proxies (that's how it uses Tor). By setting the public entry relay as the proxy, the wallet can now connect to a mint's npub/nprofile and communicate with it via NWS. image This is going to be so freaking cool. And it's going to be a lot more useful than just for Cashu. There are still bugs and issues that need to be ironed out but the code is coming out soon. Watch this space.
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Oi #nostr Finally!!! It's time to run a Twitter clone... Yes, I'm shitposting.
calle's avatar calle
Huge milestone: First demo of Nostr Web Services (NWS) bringing TCP to Nostr. With NWS, you can host any existing web application on Nostr without having to use DNS or even announce your public IP to the world, simply by sharing your service's npub (or nprofile). Try it out the demo yourself. Here is a Cashu test mint running with NWS. Let's use curl to retrieve the mint's information. The request travels from your computer to the public NWS entry relay, then through nostr to the service's NWS exit relay. At the other end is a Cashu mint with HTTPS encryption. ``` curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq ``` image I can't stress this enough: THE MINT RUNS BEHIND HTTPS! The NWS entry relay can't read your traffic. It's encrypted. We can host public entry relays that can be used by anyone. This means we can plug the entire internet to it 🌐. Let's plug it into Cashu for now. Nutshell wallet supports socks5 proxies (that's how it uses Tor). By setting the public entry relay as the proxy, the wallet can now connect to a mint's npub/nprofile and communicate with it via NWS. image This is going to be so freaking cool. And it's going to be a lot more useful than just for Cashu. There are still bugs and issues that need to be ironed out but the code is coming out soon. Watch this space.
View quoted note →
calle's avatar calle
Huge milestone: First demo of Nostr Web Services (NWS) bringing TCP to Nostr. With NWS, you can host any existing web application on Nostr without having to use DNS or even announce your public IP to the world, simply by sharing your service's npub (or nprofile). Try it out the demo yourself. Here is a Cashu test mint running with NWS. Let's use curl to retrieve the mint's information. The request travels from your computer to the public NWS entry relay, then through nostr to the service's NWS exit relay. At the other end is a Cashu mint with HTTPS encryption. ``` curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq ``` image I can't stress this enough: THE MINT RUNS BEHIND HTTPS! The NWS entry relay can't read your traffic. It's encrypted. We can host public entry relays that can be used by anyone. This means we can plug the entire internet to it 🌐. Let's plug it into Cashu for now. Nutshell wallet supports socks5 proxies (that's how it uses Tor). By setting the public entry relay as the proxy, the wallet can now connect to a mint's npub/nprofile and communicate with it via NWS. image This is going to be so freaking cool. And it's going to be a lot more useful than just for Cashu. There are still bugs and issues that need to be ironed out but the code is coming out soon. Watch this space.
View quoted note →
It's normal https based on SSL. Otherwise it wouldn't work with anything other than custom software.
So you still need to use certificates and be bound to certificate authorities, unless you use a self signed one and trust it? So basically this is "only" (I mean it's a lot) an alternative way to reach a web site? And does the website still need to have a public IP or is the NWS component "pulling" the connection from the relay somehow?
Gregor's avatar
Gregor 1 year ago
Who currently works on NWS? A DNS alternative sounds like a major feature.
so theres a nostr based name resolution in the relay side? And you need to announce the relay that host the webapp (that most probably has his static ip)? That seems to reimplement dns on upper layer, doesnt go beyond it. Or I lost something? If I correctly understood, I see two advantages here: 1) every npub can sign their own entry on the hash-table to be reachble without requiring third party dns-like trust. 2) ip static decorrelated from webapps for a better censorship resistance.
Sounds cool don’t understand it all but I know it’s important! Keep up the good work!
FBI's avatar
FBI 1 year ago
We're not here for the memes and to whoever created listr, thank you!
banjo's avatar
banjo 1 year ago
Stunning... 😳 😳 😳
👇👇👇Cool beans.👇👇👇
calle's avatar calle
Huge milestone: First demo of Nostr Web Services (NWS) bringing TCP to Nostr. With NWS, you can host any existing web application on Nostr without having to use DNS or even announce your public IP to the world, simply by sharing your service's npub (or nprofile). Try it out the demo yourself. Here is a Cashu test mint running with NWS. Let's use curl to retrieve the mint's information. The request travels from your computer to the public NWS entry relay, then through nostr to the service's NWS exit relay. At the other end is a Cashu mint with HTTPS encryption. ``` curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq ``` image I can't stress this enough: THE MINT RUNS BEHIND HTTPS! The NWS entry relay can't read your traffic. It's encrypted. We can host public entry relays that can be used by anyone. This means we can plug the entire internet to it 🌐. Let's plug it into Cashu for now. Nutshell wallet supports socks5 proxies (that's how it uses Tor). By setting the public entry relay as the proxy, the wallet can now connect to a mint's npub/nprofile and communicate with it via NWS. image This is going to be so freaking cool. And it's going to be a lot more useful than just for Cashu. There are still bugs and issues that need to be ironed out but the code is coming out soon. Watch this space.
View quoted note →
It will match the hostname: you visit google.com, you get google's cert, but the traffic goes over nostr (through a socks proxy).
DZC's avatar
DZC 1 year ago
Regarding communication between apps possibilities:
calle's avatar calle
Huge milestone: First demo of Nostr Web Services (NWS) bringing TCP to Nostr. With NWS, you can host any existing web application on Nostr without having to use DNS or even announce your public IP to the world, simply by sharing your service's npub (or nprofile). Try it out the demo yourself. Here is a Cashu test mint running with NWS. Let's use curl to retrieve the mint's information. The request travels from your computer to the public NWS entry relay, then through nostr to the service's NWS exit relay. At the other end is a Cashu mint with HTTPS encryption. ``` curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq ``` image I can't stress this enough: THE MINT RUNS BEHIND HTTPS! The NWS entry relay can't read your traffic. It's encrypted. We can host public entry relays that can be used by anyone. This means we can plug the entire internet to it 🌐. Let's plug it into Cashu for now. Nutshell wallet supports socks5 proxies (that's how it uses Tor). By setting the public entry relay as the proxy, the wallet can now connect to a mint's npub/nprofile and communicate with it via NWS. image This is going to be so freaking cool. And it's going to be a lot more useful than just for Cashu. There are still bugs and issues that need to be ironed out but the code is coming out soon. Watch this space.
View quoted note →
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nobody 1 year ago
Replace everything with Nostr!
.'s avatar
. 1 year ago
It layers both ways at the same time
> you can host any existing web application on Nostr in what sense? it looks like this is just a proxy for notes, couldn't this be achieved with a simple https server + api? plz explain ;_;
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Duvel 1 year ago
OMG, this is BIG, huge! Now I only need to deep dive to fully understand this.
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nicodemus 1 year ago
Can you give a rundown of how this actually works? I am struggling with so many parts… What does “bringing TCP” have to do with http hosting? They are two totally different layers. How is data actually hosted? *is it hosted*? Or just relayed from an actual http host? Is this what you mean by TCP? That the relay will relay socket data? That’s… questionable… could lead to all sorts of misuse? Thoroughly confused.
This is big 🤯 Nostr is not for social media. It's the ENTIRE web 🌐 As the old web drowns in waves of AI generated spam, only Nostr will survive. A web without centralized choke points. A web with authenticity where every note is signed. A web that's machine payable by default. Buckle up amigos. We're sailing to the new world much faster than I realized. Feeling lucky to be alive to witness and be part of this! 𓅦 🚀 ⚡⛵ View quoted note →
It's tcp. Http just runs on top of that. It's a web service like any other web service. Except it's only reachable via nostr.
The current design is for internal "nostr services" only which doesn't need name resolution, the npub is the target. In the next stage, it will allow connecting to the Internet at which point the DNS resolution at the entry node must probably be intercepted and replaced by the npub of the exit relay.
So.. we can build websites that cannot be taken down now, if I'm understanding correctly? When thepiratebay on nostr? 😀
bro. calm down. stop harassing me. you're a good dev, just keep doing what you're doing. what's up with all the hate?
look. this is the first time I'll engage directly with you as a person, and it's also the last time if nothing comes out of it. I remember you joined the Cashu channel with a lot of excitement and great ideas around a year ago. you were positive, supportive, helpful to others and shared your knowledge with everyone. at some point, there was a conflict with nothingmuch which had nothing to do with you, you weren't even involved in the situation. just a bystander. however, you decided to completely flip in that moment, rage quit the channel, and from that day on, you kept reappearing and spreading hate, fud, and stupid insults. it's so tiring and cheap. I never interacted with you that whole time. today I have a great relationship with nothingmuch, we discussed what happened and got over it like normal people. we do seminars together now. we work on shit. so I'm telling you this to make it clear, whatever the fuck your beef is or was, there is no need for it. if you want to engage in a constructive way, I'll be happy about it. I think you're a capable and smart dev with very interesting ideas. more people should learn from you and know about your work. however, if you keep insisting on hateful communication, I'll just resume back to ignoring you and return back to complete indifference. I would prefer the former.
This looks amazing, I have a stupid question. Would something like this circumvent the China’s firewall ? :)
> bringing TCP to Nostr I'm not quite sure what this means. Client-relay communication is accomplished via WebSockets, which is built on top of HTTP, which is built on top of TCP. So we're building TCP on top of TCP?
I get the significance of web service discovery through relays (which seems to be what this NWS is?), but I'm scratching my head wondering if Nostr is the best tool for solving the problem.
%100!!!! The amount of crazy stuff I never though was possible just by having publicly available database secured with some math is unreal. An extremely solid spec to just focus on that ability and were living the dream!
yeah, it's really important to keep domains separated, i'm sure you know well what happens when you write code that handles too many contingencies and then you realise you forgot one and it breaks the whole thing when it would have worked better if you made it into a layer cake with simple parts that are related in each layer and passing data between the layers to enable the complex behaviour
Soo, it's like TOR? How does NWS route the request through its web of relays? In other words, how does the entry node know which NOSTR relay is hosting the nprofile service?
This is a pretty cool hack, I loved it! But if the goal is to keep the server hidden from the public internet, wouldn't it be easier to link a .onion address or something alike in the kind 0 event? Seems more efficient and less spammy to relays
Impressive! Between this and the ZK txs for Bitcoincooking, what a month!
calle's avatar calle
Huge milestone: First demo of Nostr Web Services (NWS) bringing TCP to Nostr. With NWS, you can host any existing web application on Nostr without having to use DNS or even announce your public IP to the world, simply by sharing your service's npub (or nprofile). Try it out the demo yourself. Here is a Cashu test mint running with NWS. Let's use curl to retrieve the mint's information. The request travels from your computer to the public NWS entry relay, then through nostr to the service's NWS exit relay. At the other end is a Cashu mint with HTTPS encryption. ``` curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq ``` image I can't stress this enough: THE MINT RUNS BEHIND HTTPS! The NWS entry relay can't read your traffic. It's encrypted. We can host public entry relays that can be used by anyone. This means we can plug the entire internet to it 🌐. Let's plug it into Cashu for now. Nutshell wallet supports socks5 proxies (that's how it uses Tor). By setting the public entry relay as the proxy, the wallet can now connect to a mint's npub/nprofile and communicate with it via NWS. image This is going to be so freaking cool. And it's going to be a lot more useful than just for Cashu. There are still bugs and issues that need to be ironed out but the code is coming out soon. Watch this space.
View quoted note →
Default avatar
nicodemus 1 year ago
Ah… and also you can have a single npub “address” resolve any of N servers, as well? If so, that’s huge! Root btc nodes need to be on this pronto in addition to dns.
Looks cool! I don't know yet what I personally would use it for, but sweet you got it up running with SSL 😁
It works. On a mac. Out of the box. 😳 curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq { "name": "\"Cashu NWS mint\"", "pubkey": "0296d0aa13b6a31cf0cd974249f28c7b7176d7274712c95a41c7d8066d3f29d679", "version": "Nutshell/0.15.3", "description": "\"This Cashu test mint has no public IP address and can only be reached via NWS powered by Nostr\"", "contact": [ [ "", "" ] ], "nuts": { "4": { "methods": [ { "method": "bolt11", "unit": "sat" } ], "disabled": false }, "5": { "methods": [ { "method": "bolt11", "unit": "sat" } ], "disabled": false }, "7": { "supported": true }, "8": { "supported": true }, "9": { "supported": true }, "10": { "supported": true }, "11": { "supported": true }, "12": { "supported": true } } }
Is there anything preventing the NWS relay from doing a MITM attack? I guess you could take the result from curl and check the nostr signature, but curl alone is unsafe right?
ok, I am functionally retarded and need a hand understanding. what would be some examples of things this could revolutionise?
Isn't this a normal server with extra steps? This would bring more traffic and means more bandwidth for the Nostr relays.
Unpopular opinion: Absolutely terrible idea Nostr-web-services is just ngrok / cloudflared with extra steps and more concerns about safety. 1. The things you expose are public; hackers can find you and see whatever you are hosting. 2. You DO NOT OWN your web service if the name servers are not under your control. Whoever owns the name server is the prime authority, and they can inject whatever they want into your website. Imagine out of 10 relays, even one of them injects your website with a code to steal passwords and you happen to use that relay (YOU ARE COMPROMISED!!) It is as dangerous as port forwarding / dynamic DNS with extra concerns about integrity. When I say "as dangerous as port forwarding", I think I am explaining it casually, but in reality, this is far more dangerous and concerning. Just two days ago when I was looking into issues with port forwarding / dynamic DNS / Nostr-web-services, I discovered: 1. THREE THOUSAND (3k!!!!) Tesla with open information about their home coordinates, their kid's school, drop location, their workplace, their exact address, if their Tesla is active or not. 2. 6K + Camera with a full recording of the whole month, installed in people's personal—-BEDROOM--, baby monitor. There is no excuse for self-hosting irresponsibly; it should be done to increase your privacy and security, not to increase the risk. Holesail provides a way to achieve this peak self-privacy and security. You expose only what you 🫵 choose, and only the person you want can access it, with no chances of a man-in-the-middle attack from a random relay and their DNS hosting. I like how enthusiastic people are about Nostr and Nostr-based services, but we should NOT overlook the security and risks some of these ideas might bring! image @Guy Swann View quoted note →
So this is SOCKS5 over JSON messages over Websockets over HTTP over TCP/IP... did I miss any layers? Cool stuff, but I don't know how viable this will be in the long run.
Interesting...
calle's avatar calle
Huge milestone: First demo of Nostr Web Services (NWS) bringing TCP to Nostr. With NWS, you can host any existing web application on Nostr without having to use DNS or even announce your public IP to the world, simply by sharing your service's npub (or nprofile). Try it out the demo yourself. Here is a Cashu test mint running with NWS. Let's use curl to retrieve the mint's information. The request travels from your computer to the public NWS entry relay, then through nostr to the service's NWS exit relay. At the other end is a Cashu mint with HTTPS encryption. ``` curl -s -x socks5h://relay.8333.space:8882 https://nprofile1qqs8a8nk09fhrxylcd42haz8ev4cprhnk5egntvs0whafvaaxpk8plgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuwpnxvejuumsv93k2g6k9kr/v1/info --insecure | jq ``` image I can't stress this enough: THE MINT RUNS BEHIND HTTPS! The NWS entry relay can't read your traffic. It's encrypted. We can host public entry relays that can be used by anyone. This means we can plug the entire internet to it 🌐. Let's plug it into Cashu for now. Nutshell wallet supports socks5 proxies (that's how it uses Tor). By setting the public entry relay as the proxy, the wallet can now connect to a mint's npub/nprofile and communicate with it via NWS. image This is going to be so freaking cool. And it's going to be a lot more useful than just for Cashu. There are still bugs and issues that need to be ironed out but the code is coming out soon. Watch this space.
View quoted note →
Carrla's avatar
Carrla 1 year ago
I started with $1000 and, after just 6 hours of investing, I was able to turn it into $6,000. This opportunity is completely legitimate and safe to invest in. I am grateful to my coach who helped guide me through this process. If you are interested in seeing similar results, make sure to DM him now and start earning.
Cashu wallet mobile connected to a personal cashu mint via Nostr Web Services. No need to connect your own node over Tor. Mobile device only has access to a subset of the funds. Could this provide a better self-sovereign mobile lightning experience? View quoted note →