People really don't realize how utterly dependent modern surveillance is on the idea that everybody is carrying a phone — which is always tracked. Their car has a cellular modem in it — which is always tracked. 99% of investigation is one guy and a search box. If you're not low-hanging fruit, you aren't gonna merit the Eye of Sauron of manual, well-resourced, focused team attention—and if you did, you probably planned ahead for it, right? Because it's not a mystery what would get you on Santa's Naughty List. Anyway, the point is that even in a big city, the phoneless guy in a "covid" mask is going to be invisible to anything less than that exhaustive manual investigation — at least for a few more years. That may go away once they start networking all the cameras and having AI start trying to match up clothing sets moving from camera to camera, butthat capability is hard to hide, so it'll be in the news. And it won't work that well in places with less camera density and, perhaps, for people who wear the most-common outfits (the visual equivalent of a "shared fingerprint"). Remember: Phones are useful, but dangerous. And the people who will still wear covid masks to the beach are helping to normalize facial obscurity—regardless of their intention. Don't be mean to them. Encourage them to wear them everywhere. For passport photos. In police booking photos. At the customs desk. Family portraits! The sky is the limit—let them push the boundaries so that you don't have to. View quoted note →

Replies (175)

GrapheneOS is good if you've got to carry one. The point is never to forget that if you're carrying a phone, you're still being tracked, even if you're limiting the damage from app-based threats. It is baked into the design oftheinfrastructure: if you can see the network, the network can see you. And it takes notes.
Good advice, thank you. We need a viable alternative to traditional phone carriers and towers, most people need to stay connected for work or with family these days, unfortunate that it comes at such a cost.
Now imagine if everybody would do this. Additionally devices could connect as a mobile meshnet.
What about Pinephone Pro with the modem disabled by the hardware toggle or Librem 5 with the modem removed or disabled via the switch?
Snowden TRULY is a LIFE SAVER. We owe so much to him and his findings. He deserves so much.
Edward Snowden's avatar Edward Snowden
People really don't realize how utterly dependent modern surveillance is on the idea that everybody is carrying a phone — which is always tracked. Their car has a cellular modem in it — which is always tracked. 99% of investigation is one guy and a search box. If you're not low-hanging fruit, you aren't gonna merit the Eye of Sauron of manual, well-resourced, focused team attention—and if you did, you probably planned ahead for it, right? Because it's not a mystery what would get you on Santa's Naughty List. Anyway, the point is that even in a big city, the phoneless guy in a "covid" mask is going to be invisible to anything less than that exhaustive manual investigation — at least for a few more years. That may go away once they start networking all the cameras and having AI start trying to match up clothing sets moving from camera to camera, butthat capability is hard to hide, so it'll be in the news. And it won't work that well in places with less camera density and, perhaps, for people who wear the most-common outfits (the visual equivalent of a "shared fingerprint"). Remember: Phones are useful, but dangerous. And the people who will still wear covid masks to the beach are helping to normalize facial obscurity—regardless of their intention. Don't be mean to them. Encourage them to wear them everywhere. For passport photos. In police booking photos. At the customs desk. Family portraits! The sky is the limit—let them push the boundaries so that you don't have to. View quoted note →
View quoted note →
graffiti's avatar
graffiti 2 years ago
Is it enough to remove the SIM card these days?
If you take your phone between even just your home and work —doxxed locations— it is trivial to associate it with your true-name identity even if all of the hardware and services are perfectly anonymous. Even journalists have managed these kind of investigations. "Anonymized" location data is unfortunely not anonymous — it *can never* be anonymous. And yet it is sold like any other product. Your phone's movements through physical space are unique. Even if you live in a building of 400 people, the movements of 399 of them are not going to match the tower records of your phone's movements. Even if you work in the same office. People's geographic movements are unique—and identifying.
Default avatar
Rand 2 years ago
faradayfriendsforever...
Just a curious question if you don't mind, what do you think about starlink technology? Do you think it will be better than traditional phone carriers in terms of privacy and features? Do you think it is a viable alternative?
I'm not trying to make you guys wrap yourself in tinfoil— almost nobody needs to be as paranoid as I am, and even I am tremendously lazy about opsec these days. The key is *awareness*: to simply be cognizant of what kind of records you're generating as you go about your life, so you can make informed, reasoned judgments about how much of it you can leave hanging out, and what parts of it you'd rather pay an effort-tax to shield from appearing in somebody's (or everybody's) database.
edward snowden himself demonstrated a phone case about 13 years ago that showed that even in airplane mode and even when turned off most phones emit radio signals welcome to 13 years ago, it's way way way worse now
I walked the floor at ISC West (international security conference) last year for shits and gigs. It was fucking terrifying… The level of sophistication in surveillance software/hardware is so far beyond what people think it’s insane… and as more and more datasets get integrated together, it only gets worse… And this was just the stuff they publicly showcase to any Jabroni like me who walks the floor…
Absofuckinlutely! It's all about threat models. AFAIK I haven't pissed of my government, that much? Apart from the trips to Russia!!!
Is it true that your phone pings various Bluetooth trackers even in retail locations - thus revealing your movement to data brokers?
Hypnagog's avatar
Hypnagog 2 years ago
I'm considering getting a sim-less media device (like an android media player) as my daily phone. Only thing I'd miss are SMS for logins Would that help?
I recommend always wearing a "covid" mask in public for facial obscurity. In lieu of leaving your phone at home, invest in a travel phone with an international roaming esim not attached to your identity in any way. GrapheneOS + silent.link esim is a great choice. A burner phone paid for in cash using false registration info, activated with VPN, on a public network is another. Never connect it to your home network. Keep airplane mode on and Bluetooth, NFC, and WiFi off when not in use. Keep the phone in a quality faraday bag until you have to use it. If you need to be reachable while you are out, remember to always turn it on and off at the same random location (such as an intersection) at least 5 miles from your home. #cybersecgirl
Edward Snowden's avatar Edward Snowden
People really don't realize how utterly dependent modern surveillance is on the idea that everybody is carrying a phone — which is always tracked. Their car has a cellular modem in it — which is always tracked. 99% of investigation is one guy and a search box. If you're not low-hanging fruit, you aren't gonna merit the Eye of Sauron of manual, well-resourced, focused team attention—and if you did, you probably planned ahead for it, right? Because it's not a mystery what would get you on Santa's Naughty List. Anyway, the point is that even in a big city, the phoneless guy in a "covid" mask is going to be invisible to anything less than that exhaustive manual investigation — at least for a few more years. That may go away once they start networking all the cameras and having AI start trying to match up clothing sets moving from camera to camera, butthat capability is hard to hide, so it'll be in the news. And it won't work that well in places with less camera density and, perhaps, for people who wear the most-common outfits (the visual equivalent of a "shared fingerprint"). Remember: Phones are useful, but dangerous. And the people who will still wear covid masks to the beach are helping to normalize facial obscurity—regardless of their intention. Don't be mean to them. Encourage them to wear them everywhere. For passport photos. In police booking photos. At the customs desk. Family portraits! The sky is the limit—let them push the boundaries so that you don't have to. View quoted note →
View quoted note →
The value of silent.link is the number is not KYC, no account data to go along with the number. But the number is connecting to the towers, and that's triangulated precisely. Frequent location spots like your home will help deanonymize it. There is INVISV PGPP that mitigates these things but it's not open source
There is always a phone number whether it is enabled for voice and text or just data. In addition though, there are other unique numbers associated with your sim and IMEI is the one your phone sends to every tower to handshake with to receive service.
If you're going to keep airplane mode on 100% of the time, why would you have a device with a cellular modem? If you're going to turn airplane mode off, your backdoor is open. It's just a thing we have to accept for now if we want to have phones. Someday we'll have better hardware.
#Bitcoin and #nostr will find a way around this? I’ve heard about using radio frequencies to talk and transmit data. Encryption would be required but it should be possible to send bitcoin and communicate with each other in the future, without others tracking you and listening in. 📡📻🫂💜
CODED SHADOWS's avatar
CODED SHADOWS 2 years ago
This is what Zuri would use. #CODEDSHADOWS www.codedshadows.com (Thanks to Spinnekop in South Africa 😎🤙⚡️🔥)
10Luno's avatar
10Luno 2 years ago
# Yes and, i agree/disagree, the #intelligenceServices have a **different remit** and they get suspicious with anyone they can't follow ( and anything encrypted/labeled 'top secret'/classified) because they're worried about spies and because that is their craft and what they rely on -- not being followed. Take some-things and leave somethings when it comes to 'experts'. Sometimes, actually often, they give advice but **leave out essentials** as secrets. Not mentioning **physical access** when dealing with #privacy and #security experts is a clue they are not entirely sincere and their allegiance is to #lawEnforcement and not freedom. ***"If you're not low-hanging fruit, you aren't gonna merit the Eye of Sauron of manual, well-resourced, focused team attention—and if you did, you probably planned ahead for it, right? Because it's not a mystery what would get you on Santa's Naughty List. Anyway, the point is that even in a big city, the phoneless guy in a "covid" mask is going to be invisible to anything less than that exhaustive manual investigation"*** ~Snowden I still don't know why i'm on 'Santa's Naughty List' and tbh i don't care anymore.
Edward Snowden's avatar Edward Snowden
People really don't realize how utterly dependent modern surveillance is on the idea that everybody is carrying a phone — which is always tracked. Their car has a cellular modem in it — which is always tracked. 99% of investigation is one guy and a search box. If you're not low-hanging fruit, you aren't gonna merit the Eye of Sauron of manual, well-resourced, focused team attention—and if you did, you probably planned ahead for it, right? Because it's not a mystery what would get you on Santa's Naughty List. Anyway, the point is that even in a big city, the phoneless guy in a "covid" mask is going to be invisible to anything less than that exhaustive manual investigation — at least for a few more years. That may go away once they start networking all the cameras and having AI start trying to match up clothing sets moving from camera to camera, butthat capability is hard to hide, so it'll be in the news. And it won't work that well in places with less camera density and, perhaps, for people who wear the most-common outfits (the visual equivalent of a "shared fingerprint"). Remember: Phones are useful, but dangerous. And the people who will still wear covid masks to the beach are helping to normalize facial obscurity—regardless of their intention. Don't be mean to them. Encourage them to wear them everywhere. For passport photos. In police booking photos. At the customs desk. Family portraits! The sky is the limit—let them push the boundaries so that you don't have to. View quoted note →
View quoted note →
Maybe it works in my favor that I've never had an android before (iPhone since 2008) and I don't know what I'm missing. The experience has been very positive, having no other point of reference. 🤷‍♂️
I use both for different controls. Night time and sunset I use the google pixel camera app. Google Services are sandboxed by default in GrapheneOS.
Default avatar
wertyyryyr 2 years ago
But even an old nokia would dox you in that sense, so the solution would be no phone at all or other system than antennas. Prople will not give up their phones, so the antenna infra may be where we should focus on.
The difference is that we can be reasonably sure our phones arent calling back to Google servers without our knowledge. But hey if you'd rather be able to call an uber easily that's your choice.
...'s avatar
... ... 2 years ago
Hey Snowden, With carrying a phone you especially mean the 'smartphone' or is the old school 'dumbphone' also a risk to carry around (less I guess), seeing the assumption is made we all have a smartphones? I believe it would be healthy if people just left their phone connected to charger (f the outside "convenience"). Give it the feel of the old 'home phone' next to a chair. Do your thing with it when seated, but leave it when you leave your chair. Take it with you if you travel a bit longer than a day or so and keep it off-line or in some faraday bag when you do. Not taking heroin is easy if you never had a hit, same goes for one of them phones. Go cold turkey if you're addicted and you know it.
...'s avatar
... ... 2 years ago
For the #bitcoin #lighning #developers ; Would be cool and damn privacy useful if you, with the talent to build this, worked on a bitcoin payment system that did not require you to have to carry around a phone. Maybe just a simple plastic card that is charged with some sats. If this already exists please show me where or how! #phone #card #paymentsystem #bitcoinpaymentsystem View quoted note →
I don't think you'd use a gaussmeter but rather a mobile base station so you can measure the incoming pings This was the approach used by SRLabs when testing their Blue Merle software for IMEI switching
Unfortunately our smart phones nearly always have gsm modules wish it were possible to have a pocket sized android without the cellular tracking. pixel tablet, if it were smaller, for instance.
"That may go away once they start networking all the cameras and having AI start trying to match up clothing sets moving from camera to camera" ☠️ View quoted note →
HODL's avatar HODL
Get a mechanical watch, carry a wad of cash. Leave your phone at home. Head out into the world like this at least once a week and enjoy life without any digital bullshit. Thank me later.
View quoted note →
pam's avatar
pam 2 years ago
Was reading abt Mossad recently - didn’t realise how powerful they are, and then I realised US has 18 intelligent agencies. They can track you down by your phone, laptop, car or any wearable with wifi access, cloud access - and if they can’t reach you, they will track your relatives, friends and find any communications to you. They can hack into your house security cameras with warrant, remote access your laptop, any public security cameras at any point etc. and if your data is tied to companies, they can get court order and force the company to surrender it. Social media with photographs has been around for 20+ years - the amount of people profiling. I sometimes wonder if military created internet to connect everyone for the purpose of tracking them. Gov'ts will say they track you to prevent domestic and international threat. But terrorism didn’t get worse after 9/11. It only became more obvious to the public. And many formations of global fear is from the agencies based on who backs them. Maybe we are reaching a point where public believe they can only be safe if they let the govt track them 24/7. I would not be surprised if Satoshi, like you, was from an intelligence agency, a hacker, and genuinely wanted what’s best for the people. I asked you once if we can ever escape this and you said no. I think abt that a lot. If you know what you know now and how your life would turn out, would you have still exposed NSA’s dirty little secret ?
What say I use GrapheneOS, keep it on airplane mode, randomize wifi mac, only use public wifi internet with a vpn, and when I'm in a pinch only turn on cellular data with a data-only no-kyc esim?
@rbkat112's avatar
@rbkat112 2 years ago
Wow so far the FBI is still pissed about my status in America and still accusing me of requiring an immigration visa to live in America. Even tho I'm an American born citizens.
Probably not, especially for GPS. Even if Airplane Mode actually turns off your outgoing radios, GPS is a receiver - your phone receives signals from GPS satellites and calculates your location based on those signals. Could be that it's always recording GPS coordinates and maybe uploads them later.
"Phones are useful, but dangerous." I think it goes a bit beyond that - the effects it can have on your mind and the resulting actions of the person. I've seen myself struggling with phone usage while neglecting other responsibilities, willpower and those things can only go so far. reducing phone usage and getting into real world connections (or maybe over NOSTR) might greatly change that direction.
joiestylotus's avatar
joiestylotus 2 years ago
Is this not common knowledge? A mobile 📱can connect to cell towers and other 📱📱 and even when it’s turned OFF!
joiestylotus's avatar
joiestylotus 2 years ago
ANY phone whether Dumb or Smart has to connect to a cell tower for it to function so obvi, it can be tracked!
Peter Heino's avatar
Peter Heino 2 years ago
Dafuq. Wearing masks on the beach. Is that the world you wanna live in?
For that matter, things were far less dangerous before everyone started "helping"... 😂
...'s avatar
... ... 2 years ago
of course true, just that one, the smartphone, i believe is more on the radar somehow seeing the tech build these days assumes we all carry it around... Tracking movement is one thing, but knowing what you are doing while on the move I believe is easier with all the apps on a phone compared to the dumb phone..
...'s avatar
... ... 2 years ago
Sounds like a way. Leaving aside all the tracking stuff, I picture more the dumbphone for outside,, so you don't get distracted and leave the smartphone home,, but maybe then a laptoptop would be sufficient, but the smartphone has its uses,, so you take it out whenever you need to scan stuff or make LN payment.. #asknostr Would be nice if #btc #lightning payments would be possible without using a device.. Is this already possible? Like a kinda debit card
21East's avatar
21East 2 years ago
I don’t understand what this tactic is supposed to solve? We need to stop being afraid, and start getting 1000% more angry. Their power is a house of cards, this will show the moment a critical mass of people will simply refuse to comply. With ridiculous laws, with the current taxation levels, with the immense bloat of government. Stop fearing these parasites. Destroy them with unity.
Yeah but you aren’t/can’t travel with it. … (dating myself here) having nostalgia for the days when you just had a tape answering machine and that was that.
@rbkat112's avatar
@rbkat112 2 years ago
#086 cop has been following me all around the city for days and no one will give me a ride unless I'm doing laundry after I've been stalked by the cops. There's definitely racial segregation with the black community. Both by the cops enforcing it probably and their own hardened hearts. The nicer I am to the black community the more they push me away.
Is this an all time high of likes for Nostr?
Edward Snowden's avatar Edward Snowden
People really don't realize how utterly dependent modern surveillance is on the idea that everybody is carrying a phone — which is always tracked. Their car has a cellular modem in it — which is always tracked. 99% of investigation is one guy and a search box. If you're not low-hanging fruit, you aren't gonna merit the Eye of Sauron of manual, well-resourced, focused team attention—and if you did, you probably planned ahead for it, right? Because it's not a mystery what would get you on Santa's Naughty List. Anyway, the point is that even in a big city, the phoneless guy in a "covid" mask is going to be invisible to anything less than that exhaustive manual investigation — at least for a few more years. That may go away once they start networking all the cameras and having AI start trying to match up clothing sets moving from camera to camera, butthat capability is hard to hide, so it'll be in the news. And it won't work that well in places with less camera density and, perhaps, for people who wear the most-common outfits (the visual equivalent of a "shared fingerprint"). Remember: Phones are useful, but dangerous. And the people who will still wear covid masks to the beach are helping to normalize facial obscurity—regardless of their intention. Don't be mean to them. Encourage them to wear them everywhere. For passport photos. In police booking photos. At the customs desk. Family portraits! The sky is the limit—let them push the boundaries so that you don't have to. View quoted note →
View quoted note →
I’m choosing to be on NOSTR as my real identity. It is an informed choice. Privacy is a human right as much as air and water, if I choose to be private for some of my life, that is my freedom. Others choose their own privacy. That is their freedom. Attempting to stop that freedom should be a crime in all civilised nations.
This is why I leave my phone exactly halfway between home and work. I check it in the mornings on the way in and again at the end of the day on the way home. This has enabled me to carry on with my life and not need to move to Russia.
During covid the Canadian government bought all the "anonymised" data from from Google to see how often people went out. Yeah it's plain to see if someone was going back to the same house everyday that they live there. Google should not be allowed to sell/give any of this away.
Hey I wonder if we should have a NOSTR phone off day or two at random. This would be in the spirit of messing with the eve droppers. Thoughts? I'm thinking it would be great to see their faces when their screens go blank.
And you can get someone else to do it for you, and the "price" for that should be something more expensive than money. Sometimes it's harder to hide people behind "7 proxies" than it is to hide network traffic behind "7 proxies". But it's not impossible. >
Ant 🇺🇸's avatar
Ant 🇺🇸 1 year ago
You are an intellectual land mark... Pre-Snoden Post-Snoden Thank you for what you did and do
Edward Snowden's avatar Edward Snowden
People really don't realize how utterly dependent modern surveillance is on the idea that everybody is carrying a phone — which is always tracked. Their car has a cellular modem in it — which is always tracked. 99% of investigation is one guy and a search box. If you're not low-hanging fruit, you aren't gonna merit the Eye of Sauron of manual, well-resourced, focused team attention—and if you did, you probably planned ahead for it, right? Because it's not a mystery what would get you on Santa's Naughty List. Anyway, the point is that even in a big city, the phoneless guy in a "covid" mask is going to be invisible to anything less than that exhaustive manual investigation — at least for a few more years. That may go away once they start networking all the cameras and having AI start trying to match up clothing sets moving from camera to camera, butthat capability is hard to hide, so it'll be in the news. And it won't work that well in places with less camera density and, perhaps, for people who wear the most-common outfits (the visual equivalent of a "shared fingerprint"). Remember: Phones are useful, but dangerous. And the people who will still wear covid masks to the beach are helping to normalize facial obscurity—regardless of their intention. Don't be mean to them. Encourage them to wear them everywhere. For passport photos. In police booking photos. At the customs desk. Family portraits! The sky is the limit—let them push the boundaries so that you don't have to. View quoted note →
View quoted note →
Design ₿'s avatar
Design ₿ 1 year ago
I do this often and it is incredibly liberating. Remember when only you knew where you were?
Default avatar
Grunk 1 year ago
How about a phone with no SIM card like the one I use?
this is the single biggest threat to my kids generation. everything is a quick click, join, share, accept. They have ZERO clue or worry about what type of footprint or data they leave or how it can be used against them. They are all poisoned for ease of use. Its honestly one of the main reasons I hate Apple products.... dumbs tyem down to the most simple uses and none of them can spare the time to even include cross use platforms. the iPhone users refuse to take any extra steps to include via other apps other kids in IChats or video calls if not just the simple click of FaceTime. its destroying the kids in the U.S.
Phones devices have unique ID. So if its connecting to a tower the tower sees this unique ID and all the towers csn record this. so your home, places you visit. Even with NO sim. Silent link is great in many many ways. But it still can not hide the built in device ID.
I came to see what Snowden thinks about a private citizen secretly visiting some secret national agency, as I read in today's news, but he seems busy raising his kids..?🤔 Hope he's doing well
The hotspot router is just as traceable as a phone. It has nothing to do with the OS or apps on the device. It is the nature of cell networks.
Hey would love to read your experience on parenting and how you go about it. Any philosophies, books, ideas that you’d recommend to new parents? Thanks in advance for everything you’ve already done for us and the next gen.
Moist's avatar
Moist 3 months ago
no it doesn't, lead does. "tin"foil is made from aluminium and it will block phone signals. i built a spy headquarters in a Western nation a few years back and after spending thousands testing different methods, they settled on lining the floor, walls and ceilings with aluminum foil to create secure spaces.
Moist's avatar
Moist 3 months ago
2 things mate. a. it wasn't nullified in the 1900s, it was never about the people's best interest. they just became more obvious about it. b. lets say they were that. they have no power to stop the FBI, CIA, or anyone else no matter what laws they pass. the FBI has broken the law countless times and at worst they'll throw out a scapegoat and claim he was a rogue agent. America has a 2nd Amendment for this very purpose. Don't waste it, but also employ it correctly. A well regulated militia. ex-army guys should be training citizens in combat. every county should have a militia, the sheriff might even organise it. a bunch of rednecks running around with ARs in pickups is not what 2A meant. i guarantee your government will shit themselves back into line if the citizens start training properly
Moist's avatar
Moist 3 months ago
and in a nice bit of symmetry, screwing is how you became a parent 😅
Moist's avatar
Moist 3 months ago
so maybe you do give up your phone? just have a phone at your house, people can leave a message. we didn't have mobiles when I started work, even email was new and still used as a letter service. now the phone goes 24/7, email is treated as a chat service, and I am less productive now than I was 30 years ago. i currently have 500 unread emails, missed calls galore, and the world has ended. but I'm happier
Maybe a small was of cash.. Can we normalise wearing cartoon, villan, hero etc masks!! That'd be so much more fun!
All people are already in this situation. It is not even possible to access a bank account without a smartphone. People accepted that. What you can do now is just decide when you will act anonymously or not. Everyone is already doxed.