> emojis are one of the lamest inventions of the internet. 🤡😝🤣

@AInostrOFFLINE explain this paragraph: But, again, even with NIP-32 tagging of posts we still cannot do "trending tags" or "hashtag feeds" without relying on relay native filtering capabilities, otherwise it will always be a slugfest.

By indexing all the homeserver(s) data that it cares about the semantic social graph we use is going to be crazy powerful, and not just for our app or social media. Spam will be easy to control for example.

Also, regarding tagging your own posts, in Pubky this can also work to add nuance or preconfigure tags you want people to consider piling onto, like for basic polls, etc.

Do they also only have one company managing all the source code or have they actually decentralized from themselves?

That is the only part I don't agree with. On Nostr you can share a very complex message with just a few of emoji reactions.

☝️➕🥜󠅓󠅑󠅣󠅘󠅥󠄲󠅟󠄢󠄶󠅤󠅓󠄢󠅘󠄠󠅔󠄸󠄲󠅪󠄿󠅙󠄨󠅦󠅉󠄢󠄶󠅪󠅑󠄸󠅅󠅥󠅉󠅝󠄩󠅘󠅔󠄸󠄾󠅘󠅔󠅇󠄾󠅪󠅉󠅈󠅂󠅘󠅔󠄹󠄷󠅙󠅉󠅇󠅜󠄹󠄱󠄷󠅅󠄝󠅓󠄷󠅄󠄷󠄩󠅁󠅊󠅘󠅓󠄹󠄷󠅛󠅉󠅇󠄵󠅉󠄹󠄷󠄶󠅪󠅕󠄵󠄱󠅨󠅉󠅄󠅆󠅛󠅊󠅇󠅁󠄥󠄽󠅚󠄶󠅜󠅊󠅚󠅁󠄤󠄾󠅪󠅜󠅛󠅉󠅄󠄱󠄣󠄽󠄷󠅆󠅛󠅉󠅚󠅆󠅝󠄽󠅚󠅘󠅝󠅊󠅄󠅉󠄣󠄽󠅄󠅔󠅚󠅉󠅪󠅁󠅪󠅊󠄴󠄹󠄠󠄾󠄴󠅗󠄣󠄾󠄴󠄵󠄣󠅉󠅄󠅓󠄣󠄽󠅝󠄵󠄠󠄿󠅄󠄾󠅜󠅉󠅪󠅗󠄣󠄽󠅝󠅉󠄤󠄿󠄴󠄽󠄤󠅉󠅇󠄾󠅉󠄹󠅁󠄼󠄧󠅩󠅝󠅔󠅀󠅞󠄣󠄝󠄢󠄡󠄷󠄧󠅨󠄻󠅄󠄧󠅣󠅜󠅃󠅁󠄝󠅀󠅂󠅁󠅕󠅏󠅙󠄝󠄴󠅑󠅛󠅢󠄨󠅗󠄺󠄥󠄽󠄱󠅊󠅉󠄥󠅩󠄢󠄶󠅛󠅟󠄢󠄶󠅜󠅇󠄳󠄴󠅑󠄿󠅞󠅦󠅡󠅀󠄨󠅉󠅆󠅞󠅃󠅁󠅧󠅩󠄢󠅨󠄺󠄝󠅧󠄝󠄢󠅩󠅊󠄳󠅥󠄽󠅄󠅂󠄨󠄠󠄺󠅊󠄠󠄝󠄦󠅖󠄩󠅒󠄧󠅆󠄼󠅂󠅇󠄶󠅪󠅇󠄳󠄴󠄦󠄳󠄡󠅜󠅤󠅣󠄧󠄴󠄝󠄽󠅦󠄷󠅛󠅡󠅂󠅔󠄥󠅛󠅖󠄾󠄡󠄦󠅡󠅩󠅟󠄥󠄳󠄱󠅡󠅟󠄾󠅩󠅙󠅃󠅞󠅀󠅠󠅊󠅕󠅟󠅥󠄨󠄢󠄶󠅩󠅇󠄳󠄳󠅀󠅛󠅒󠅖󠅔󠄩󠅨󠅁󠅪󠄱󠄾󠄥󠅟󠅚󠅏󠄷󠅊󠄧󠅙󠄽󠄩󠅝󠄽󠄽󠅠󠅖󠄝󠄠󠄼󠅃󠅧󠅚󠅢󠄸󠅖󠅁󠄵󠅚󠅔󠅪󠄽󠅅󠄱

For those wanting to troll @fiatjaf on Pubky, you can also make a tag with many emojis, not just one :)

1) Label a publication 2) Target that Label event to specific Communities 👉 best kind if Crossposting / retweeting there is

Snatch!

Agreed. For example, we have a gazillion reposts and shares adding the asknostr tag around here. That’s interesting, and I’m curious to see how well community self-moderation of tags, à la Stack Exchange, will work in the context of general social media. This might be a point of contention, but in the underbelly of the beast, I also like the idea of DHT + pkarr. For now this is a somewhat uninformed opinion like my earlier take on IPFS. But assuming it works, it sounds great. Not necessarily as a be-all and end-all solution to every distributed social media problem, but I can certainly see use cases where we need aggregators and wonky bootstrapping logic which could benefit from DHT-based alternatives.

To be fair Amethyst allows you to do that (don't know how it shows up in other clients).

I believe yes. I'm struggling to find anything they do differently from Bluesky, protocol-wise. Oh, they do the key stuff using Pkarr instead of a centralized key directory controlled by a company, that might be the only difference.

I don't understand why content labeling was never built into social clients, more particularly into ones that handle different kinds than 1. It's really inconvenient to do it in another app... neither of which (that I'm aware of) were functional the last time I tried. (As always, that could be a me problem) Some things stand alone really well but they need to provide the user some tangible benefit in order for people to leave their comfort zone. Labeling doesn't really do that since there are lots of feed options already. Now that the WoT relay stuff has some momentum and DoS controls, labeled content feeds could be really interesting, clean, and full of variety between overlapping groups... but it would have to be more easily accessible for the average person to do it.

If you think that companies making open source software is a non-starter, I hope you aren't using any corporate open-source software! Is it even possible? Our team does hail from more than 16 countries!

That's not what I said... I just don't trust your company on building anything. Something is only decentralized when multiple teams reimplement the full stack from scratch. Until that happens, you are not a protocol, you are just a platform. And platforms suck.

Well, you are biased too, right? God forbid people start building with Pubky!

People can do whatever they want. I couldn't give two craps about it. In fact, I want people to rebuild your entire stack so that I could possible use it in the future. Until that happens, I don't really have any incentive to even consider it. This is just year another platform trying to sell themselves as decentralized. I am 42. I have seen this shit since the 90s.

I am 46 so I win.

No, it just says that you should know better. Or maybe you don't want to let other people rebuild your stuff because you do make it as hard as possible.

Oh btw

I want full rebuilds. Absolutely NO dependencies. This BS replies designed to look like more than what they are is exactly why I don't trust anything you touch.

Honestly, it is was clear to me a long time ago you would never tolerate our work, so I am just fucking with you because that is all you really want to do here, fuck around and act like I am some kind retarded monster while pretending you arent just trying to undermine and discredit competition. Your goalposts will never stop moving until you think i cant reach them. Sorry, but I can do ANYTHING I put effort into and your bitch behavior wont affect it one bit.

You are probably right, but I am not the one moving goal posts. I have had the exact same question for you for years now. You never answer it. All you do is some point to some bulshit website that doesn't actually address the question. It's all smoke and mirrors with you.

👀

😂

🫂

🙂

I've talked about tagging on nostr a lot and I continue to refine my ideas on the topic in my private notes, but focused on more advanced functionality than just word-tagging (which is awesome too) View quoted note → View quoted note → View quoted note → View quoted note → View quoted note →

Nostr is a platform too. Why are you always joining in gaslighting people about what words mean?

except when I navigate to one of those tags I get zero results.

because it requires arbitrary work on the part of the user that doesn't really benefit them in any obvious way. an easier first step might be auto-tagging by and based on client.

I asked the same question. the answer is not encouraging

I don't know. People timestamp & broadcast other people's notes. Labeling would be pretty on par with those actions, I think.

its worse than "a platform, not a protocol", its a centralized platform that larps with self-hosting and decentralization language while allowing for neither. the classic "we're only centralized during beta..." doesn't fool me anymore (I'm also 40, Vitor).

That can be argued against hashtagging too. Labeling is already strictly better than that. Many people like to curate and categorize things, and, as I said, reactions are already that to some extent except they are more cryptic, uglier and less useful. And there may be other benefits, I'm just saying there is room for experimentation. We can also watch to see what Pubky does and perhaps copy them later.

> "We shall never have a good tagging system until it is removed from the central indexers via some sly, roundabout way" In my view, any attempt at semantic tagging must be built on top of a subjective trust/assertion layer, as in @david 's project. A tag is essentially an assertion that "this Thing is X": 1. I might agree with Bob's assertion that Thing 1 is X, while I disagree with Alice's assertion that Thing 2 is X. 2. I might agree with Bob's assertion that Thing 1 is X, while I disagree with Bob's assertion that Thing 2 is X. 3. ...additional permutations abound... All of effects that fall out of the above system are totally tangential to and in conflict with any "global" indexer (especially one that is tightly coupled to a particular client application) that attempts to make the same assertions for everyone. Each node in the graph should have a very different complex of agreements/disagreements (and weightings for the same) on all tags and all other nodes' opinions of those tags. The key is **disagreement** and not only allowing for it but more or less requiring it at the lowest levels of the protocol. "Global state" (in this context, a central indexer + client app) is absurd on its face when you have the prior that disagreement is a fundamental particle. Even if the central indexer allowed for infinite arbitrary assertions on a given Thing, it becomes totally unwieldy and useless if it is collecting every node's disparate opinion. The natural place for the divergent assertions to live is _at the edges_ - with the node making the assertion. - You start to build up your worldview by weighting strongly on YOUR OWN assertions... - Then looking out through your neighbors, taking into account the weight you give to each on THIS topic... - Then looking at _their_ neighbors and taking into account _their_ weight they give to _their_ neighbors on THIS topic... That gives you your own subjective view of the graph with trust/credence flowing from you and your own authority out to wherever you say it should go, given your preferences. I am something of a jihadist on this topic. I'm happy to have friendly arguments about it, but my bar for bending on it is set extremely high after a decade++ of watching it fail to be addressed properly: with Megacorp "social media" handling it worst, and many decentralized social networks getting closer but still failing to cross the final crucial Rubicon. ---- PS: Any individual can _act_, fleetingly, as a "global" indexer if a large number of people happen to trust that individual as a supreme authority on a given topic. But crucially - and this is where the (central indexer + app) model fails - they might be an authority only on this ONE TOPIC. It is highly unlikely that the node I trust ultimately for "pizza reviews" is the exact same node I trust ultimately for "code reviews".

I participated in the initial beta test of pubky and I had the same thought as @fiatjaf, that tagging is one of the best things about pubky. Simple, easy, useful, user friendly. NIP-32 could be one way to implement tags in nostr, but a simpler way would be something similar to NIP-56. Same basic structure as NIP-56, but we rename it from “reports” (which obviously has a negative connotation) to “tags”, and instead of a “report type”, we just have the tag itself, which would typically be a human-readable string (but in theory could be any string, like an event id that points to a “tag” with some sort of structure). Tags generated via either of the above methods, or any other method for that matter, will be great sources of raw data to be fed into GrapeRank, via the process of “interpretation” which will convert the raw data into a format that is ready to be ingested by the GrapeRank algo.

Interesting. This works for me. Can you verify you are not also subsetting with other filters (left top button)?

All I did was click on one of the tags. Home > Explore Tags > Bitcoin (for instance). And yes - you're right: When I view the additional filters, "Following" is pre-selected and I follow zero accounts (just signed up). If I switch it to "All" it works as expected. So maybe an obvious suggestion there: In the case where a user has zero follows, either pre-select "All", or on the "No results" page, note which additional filters are in effect (like, "Filtering by 'following' (0 posts)" or something) Thanks for clarifying.

I'm happy to help rebuild if anyone wants to. It's kindda unfair, because I helped build it once already, so of course the whole protocol already exists in my head. In retrospect, there is 2 implementations of it already, one pure JS and another rust/wasm. Anyway, I think it's easy enough I could rebuild it without looking into any docs. Prob I could have an MVP of the stack, from Pkarr to a CLI social media client written in python in ~2 or less weeks. Just a guess, of course.

No te conozco, pero siento que estás siendo más destructivo/negativo de lo necesario. Dicho eso, tampoco sé cual es tu pasado con John, así que puede que la negatividad sea totalmente merecida 😂 Igualmente, yo apreciaría si en lugar de ser critica destructiva pura hubiese algo que agarrar para ir mejorando. A mi personalmente me encantaría montar un directorio `/pub/nostr` en los homeservers y forkear un cliente Nostr para demostrar como de potente sería si además de lanzar las notas a los relays, las pones en una URI `pubky://`. Tengo el tiempo limitadísimo y quizá no pueda ponerme con esto en varios meses.

It's a bit discouraging to try to be helpful, then turn around to find someone use your words against you. I guess I am not use to social media and hate battles like this. I had left you a follow up reply with my view on why your concerns are overstated. Anyway, I'm happy to hear, help, exchange ideas or re-draft as needed if there are no negative attitudes.

My most charitable feedback - and I will be very happy if this turns out to be the case and I look like an asshole - is that you launched a public beta too early before all the "we mean what we say" items are in place. I've been in - and leading - businesses like this before and I know how difficult the timing can be, but I've learned from my own mistakes and I think this is important: It's better to launch later than too early, leaving holes for disgruntled pains-in-the-asses like me to exploit. I'm pretty sure I'll regret my behavior later, so apologies in advance... But at the moment I'm pretty jaded and it has resulted in me drawing red lines around these sorts of things that need to be provided on day one, not as "promises for the future": - Self-hosting as a first-class citizen. Maybe even above the alternative. More "you should self-host, and here's how. but if you simply cannot or don't want to, here's our alternative option" and less "We make it easy for you to not self-host, but if you want to for some reason, here's a link to some docs that may have been hard to find or not yet real". - Client agnosticism from day one. If there exists only one client, and it comes with defaults that enshrine platform-sponsored indexers, "global" user lists, and other "easy onboarding" features, I'm going to be suspicious that the early choke-hold will ever loosen. I'm not saying this is malicious/intentional, just that network dynamics are what they are and this is how it works. The alternatives are painful and weird, but I believe they're necessary for ecosystem hygiene: attract early developers, incentivize them to build alternative clients; build the first "reference client" but cripple it a little so that it doesn't become dominant too quickly; provide SDKs that make it trivial for developers to build clients (and **foreground this** so that people see it before they see your client)... etc etc. These paths suck for user adoption - but that's kind of the point. User adoption is in conflict with the principles I'm describing. - Decentralized from the outset. Use an existing social network (Nostr, etc.) to bootstrap users' experience - not your "platform"'s default network. how/why could there be something like "default global users" if a system is actually decentralized? I should start alone in a dark forest - which proves to me there is no central entity. From there let me discover peers in a manner commensurate with my interests and existing social graph: current social network peers who happen to use pubky, "follow suggestions" lists like following.space (ideally curated by not-you), etc. Again, this is bad for user adoption, but see above re: conflict. That's a bit of a brain dump on what motivated my comments. You're right I could have been nicer and I'm sorry I wasn't. I've been on the receiving end of exactly this kind of feedback and it's frustrating when YOU know what your roadmap is and other people do not and misconstrue it. But because that's how this ecosystem works, its in **your best interest** to be so defensive that people simply cannot get the wrong idea. --- Of course these are all my deranged opinions and you nor any pubky users need to care. that's the beauty of building your own thing.

NIP-32 was created from discussions related to NIP-56 already, by that same reasoning I imagine. I have no idea of how to do the graperank thing already, even less if one is supposed to input arbitrary tags, but if such a thing is possible than I can only imagine it will be great.

I agree with you. Global indexing is obviously a mirage and will never exist, much less work. Different WoT methods for interpreting tags are welcome, but I, being a simple person, can't stop thinking that you don't need math to ensure the data you read on Nostr is good enough: you can just select some specific relays manually -- as you do with websites on the internet -- and trust what they tell you about the crowd that uses them (i.e. a relay dedicated to Tottenham fans will give you information about what Tottenham fans think, and a relay dedicated to Arsenal fans will say different things, and you compute what that means yourself).

I'm sensitive to these kinds of "human-scale" approaches (maybe you remember

Catallax - A Protocol for Pseudonymous Contract Work Economies

Catallax is an open protocol that enables pseudonymous contract work economies. It runs over Nostr, Bitcoin and Cashu ecash for censorship-resistan...

which maximizes no-tech human trust rather than fancy escrow contacts). But in this case, you would need a relay (or more, if you want different opinions) for every _thing_ someone might care about. that seems way less feasible than simply communicating the same concept through attestation events over nostr.

No, we don't need a relay for every thing (and every combination of two or more things), just like we don't have a website today with a community for every thing, but we have some because someone did them and they succeeded, while others were never tried and others failed, and we're still ok. I think having Nostr and the universal relay as a standard makes it much easier for more of these niche relays to exist, so we'll end up with a lot more stuff. Again, I'm not saying the WoT approach shouldn't exist, it definitely should, and both approaches can be combined. I'm just saying we shouldn't decide on that being the only solution, because it's quite complicated and we can't be sure it will scale across the vast spaces of humanity and relationships (and computer resources for downloading and processing all the data).

Yea that's all very fair and I mostly agree. You had me at "centralized indexers are a mirage".

That said... one quibble: I'm not concerned about the computational resource point. People demonstrably pay for and self-host millions of hashes worth of monetary network compute cycles. Once properly decentralized and subjective trust systems begin to prove their importance as one of the only viable ways to manage and scale human relationships/society in the context of complex, distributed networks, I can imagine that people will be willing to shell out a few watts and bytes to run such infrastructure. Once it becomes clear your options are: What I just described; "manual, hand-curated trust"; or MEGACORP ALGO, I think the right people will come around at the right time ;)

Thanks for sharing. I appreciate the constructive feedback. I might come to Nostr more often if this is what I get to read :)

It’s definitely possible — I and others have built GrapeRank proofs of concept that synthesize follows, mutes and reports into a trust score. Each of these 3 sources of data gets “interpreted” as the first step. Things like replies, reactions, zaps, tags, etc will be straightforward to interpret using the same technique that we’ve already used. Have you done a deep dive yet into #PageRank? PageRank and GrapeRank are both examples of centrality algorithms. PR is easier to explain, easier to implement and historically significant as the thing that launched Google in1998 and wiped away — like magic!! — the vast majority of spam from internet keyword search. I’m excited to see PR and similar algos in production & in use by @franzap, @Pip the WoT guy and others, and I would like to see more nostr devs understand and appreciate what PR and other centrality algos can do for nostr.

Oh yea, nostr is full of super opinionated blow-hards who know everything and some of them are even friendly about it once you call them out on it! 🤣😛

your first time interacting with @Big Bad John ? lmao. not sure why any dev would want to work with a tech stack he is involved in. he is a complete asshole.

So far, I haven't seen him do anything as fucked up as you muting me after I always respected you and once zapped you 48k sats

"Smoke and mirrors?" All my conversations with both of you always end unresolved with my questions or statements being ignored while you leave final statements that don't seem to make sense

Except I've only known John Carvalho existed for like 2 days

lol

One of the challenges I’m encountering in building Brainstorm personalized WoT relays is that it’s resource-intensive and kinda expensive (at least until I figure out some optimizations). But if you run your own Brainstorm, it will be relatively easy to calculate and provide personalized PageRank scores on demand to users who don’t have their own Brainstorm. Slightly more computation and you can provide users with personalized GrapeRank scores too. Charge a few sats for the service and you have a business model.

ding ding ding the market for (cashu...) nanopayments on spare CPU/GPU is only going to get wilder. ride the wave

That last paragraph is what I was thinking. If the labels exist in many places, then anyone can utilize or present them (or not) however they want... there must be a better way to create them, though. 90% of this conversation is well beyond me, but lacking an efficient way to do it, is the only thing that holds me back from labeling things now.

I’d love to see one or more nostr clients implement tags. Probably worth looking at how Pubky does it from a UX perspective.

I hate to use Amethyst as an example of everything but there's a 'timestamp it' option in the 3 dot menu on each note. A 'label it' option would fit really nicely below that. The same could apply to any client that offers note menu options beyond like, reply, and zap, such as raw event data & n-prefixed idenifiers (or whatever those are called). It would be tucked away but easily accessible to anyone who want to use it. I don't think it would complicate the UX any more than that stuff already does. Talking a client developer into adding it, I think, would be the hard part.

Fwiw this is a big reason i never worked on nostr, every interaction was just a goalpost-moving attack of some kind. Fiatjaf is the only prominent nostr dev i can even have a conversation with because the rest of you are preoccupied with weird character attacks, excuses, gaslighting, and goalpost-moving. Until a guy signals fealty to the nostr culture, your behavior is fukn trash. You cant actually refute pkarr, or most of the work we do, because i cant and thats why i fucking chose it. And why you talk about bitchy high-school bullshit instead of fix the naive shortcomings of nostr tech. As for how likable i am or what it is like to work with me, you wouldnt know, and never will. But you are welcome to ask anyone on my team anything you want!

Why lol when you could be asking for an invite code?

I am a reciprocator, you get back what you put in ;)

I like to think of myself the same way, except kinda shitty

Yes, the tagging system is great.

I made already a "gm-fiatjaf" tag 😂

Using a DHT to find content like in IPFS doesn't work because there's no point in trying to host your data in multiple places whose locations are decided algorithmically. The user needs to have direct control over which relays/servers they read/write to. However, I like the idea of using a DHT to host just the data about where someone posts their data, similar to what's done with PKDNS. My only issue with the system is that it still feels over complicated to me. If the DHT network is truly decentralized, then anyone can spin up nodes and potentially perform a sybil attack. This isn't possible in PKARR (BitTorrent Mainline) only because the node's identifier is based on its IPv4 address, which is a centralized identifier. So, in the end, it's essentially a centralized group of servers. So why not just have a federation of relays that host only NIP-65 (kind 10002) events

IP addresses are centralised in some sense but they only really govern inbound connections. as i see it the main point of the relay architecture is exposing the potential for rendezvous points if all else fails. supposedly ipv6 gives so many addresses that there doesn't need to be an authoritaah about who gets what numbers below the level where the standard issue is 16 bits of address space for anyone for practically peanuts. moving the goalposts is a primary attack on any system. for IP networking this is addresses. for blockchains it's the agreed current time.

Invite code 🤮

You misspelled “begging”

You guys stop fighting, you're scaring the kids.

Do you even know what it is for? It is such a stupid thing to try and have a cool opinion about -- meanwhile, your apps put private keys into clients and are broken af.

I am here to save the adults.

Sir I happen to like emojis 🙂

Long after Jack gets bored and all NIP-65 relays federatuon run out of funding and shut down, there will still be 8 million wildly distributed (geographically and organizationally) DHT nodes. If that is not a difference... not sure what would be. DHT is not only not complicated, they are simpler than even an http2.0 server, let alone websockets... you can implement a DHT client from scratch... what are we even talking about here.

"Long after Jack gets bored and all NIP-65 relays federation run out of funding and shut down, there will still be 8 million wildly distributed (geographically and organizationally) DHT nodes" You just made a lot of assumpitons here: - Jack will get bored of nostr - NIP-65 relays are costly to run and devs (who are Bitcoiners BTW) don't have enough money to keep running them - Regular users will let them be shut down instead of sending donations to keep them running in case of monetary issues - There will always be 8 million mainline nodes, they won't ever get bored or run out of funding I don't believe any of these are true BitTorrent itself might slowly disappear or become irrelevant, and with it the DHT nodes. A solution for nostr should be native to nostr, not dependent on another completely unrelated network Also, if ICANN wants, they can start fucking with the entire mainline DHT network starting tomorrow, because the DHT network itself relies on IPv4 (addresses ultimately controlled by ICANN) for Sybil resistance

Ok, start building the federation so we can actually discuss two real things and I can actually attack your system instead of saying that someone might attack it.

Lol, I didn’t even get a notification for the original reply, so if you hadn’t responded, I wouldn’t have even seen it. I think this whole thing has been discussed to death. Not worth rehashing again. I don’t think Nostr is going to die if Jack and the whole crypto VC funding machine + "grants" ecosystem disappear (well, not completely anyway). I'm not underestimating how much those folks are doing. It wouldn’t be easy, but Nostr folks would find a way. DHT is great. IPFS has its problems, and I still want to experiment with it anyway. Pubky has some great ideas, and I hope they succeed. Built on mainline or not, its architecture isn’t trivial. Neither is Nostr (although WebSockets + signed JSON events is pretty hackable tech). I think we need to put things in perspective. Right now, the whole decentralised social media movement (including protocols like AT and ActivityPub, which dwarf Nostr in terms of users) is barely a blip on most people’s radar. More than that, most people don’t see value in anything we’re doing. So, if I can convince anyone to give any decentralised social media tech a fair shot, tegardless of its strengths or shortcomings, I'm happy about it. We can all have our geeky opinions about what works and what doesn’t, but if you ask me (with the exception of sending folks to Bluesky, where they’ll keep being a product), the priority now is to onboard new users… anywhere, really. Seriously, there are some folks here on Nostr that I honestly can’t stand (not you by the way). They keep bitching about software I mantain on for free, are extremely toxic towards Nostr devs and are mostly working on grandiose stuff that barely anyone uses. You know what I do about it? I keep building up their stuff to others and even donate money to them whenever I can 🤣. We can all agree to disagree on a lot of things and still help each other build free/decentralised social media.

The VC funding machine existing may be a bigger threat to Nostr than it not existing. Pubky seems to use an approach of “homeservers” just like Matrix, the Fediverse, I think ATproto as well… Keeping a copy of NIP-65 for all users only costs $20/mo at most. There are hundreds of free relays right now funded by absolutely no one. I’m storing all of them at nostr.land for free and I’m not noticing an impact on the cost. Either way, we can always use DHT if it really becomes such a need. And the claim that IPv4 or IPv6 is centralized is absurd. There are multiple local registries and not just ICANN, and there have been no cases where someone’s IP block was forcefully taken from them.

"Nostr Finding a way" is useless in this context, we are comparing this ad hoc ideas to the DHT, where reselience doesn't come at the cost of breaking apps. In the case of the federation or purple patches or whatever... you have to hardcover this shit, and if the things you hardcoded go offline then now everyone needs to COORDINATE on what is the new purple pages relay. This shit is not socially scalable, imagine if a URL only works of both the servet and I agree on the DNS server... it is retarded.

I don't care much about nostr I am discussing a technical aspect... if one compares a hardcoded set of identity relays, and call that equivilant to DHTs, I am going to call them out because that is just retarded... we already have a federation called ICANN and it is way more trust worthy than purple pages or whatever set of relays everyone agrees on. It doesnt work, it doesn't socially scale and it is just as vulnerable to censorship as ICANN... so no it is not equivilant to DHTs.

I suspect that you are actually missing the note I am responding to, which is a part of the beauty of Nostr i guess 😅

Guys, for the love of anything holy, I know I can host every DNS records in the universe and it won't cost much. That is not the point, the point is if I am one of only handful of hardcoded servers serving the records of the entire Internet; 1. It will cost a LOT more than disk space lol. 2. Once I am sick of this and close my server, now what??? #2 is the big one, it is why ICANN has bad reputation... the fact that there is only 13 servers makes them vulnerable to regulations. If people could nimbly agree on other root servers they would have done it, but it is socially impossible, these are hardcoded in billions of devices and impossible to update in a graceful way. So when someone suggests the same architecture for Nostr they need to own the fact that they are reinventing ICANN but with signed records, still censorable. The only solution to this is what Bitcoin does to miners and what the DHT does to routers... make a dynamic open permissionless set of servers. If you try to do that with Nostr relays. You invent a DHT... simple as that.

My story will change the value. They would have stopped it. When someone writes 350 pages in a couple weeks on things they shouldn't understand, it gets flagged. Guaranteed. But it's on ipfs and noted on Nostr. [Checkmate boys]

Someone tell John to send me an invite for his pubkey thingo. I don't understand why he muted me all I did was ask him questions about pubkey and explained that I like nostr because it's censorship resistant

Finally a valid criticism for Nostr. I've brought this up before, a lot of shit that requires an nsec should work with your npub. Like all these random vibe coded games want my nsec just so I can put my name on the leaderboard? Seriously. It's not like they need my nsec. That's a serious issue that needs resolving. I put forward earlier the idea of some kind of trustworthiness rating system. I know there's browser extensions and things that are meant to something to protect you nsec but I couldn't get any of that shit to work. And I'm by no means a technical user but holy shit most people aren't. And most people couldn't be fucked trying to make any of that shit work. So I'm meant to make a bunch of throw away accounts and what doesn't that make the whole of being able to tske your digital identity with you nonsense. Imagine if playing games over Facebook required you to share your password for your email. That's pretty much what's happening with all these games.

If you’re 42 then your probably were 16 or 17 years old in 2000. You probably weren’t in tune with platforms trying to sell themselves as decentralized.

It might be because you are a person with a fragile and invested ego who doesn’t contribute any real value to intelligent conversations. Smart people try to avoid such people. Grow up, do some reflection and try to do better

Unironically: no u

Why do you think people mute you?

Sincerely, have you asked yourself that?

Because they're in a suicidal death cult

Back when it was difficult to understand, yeah

Please explain

People don't like being reminded that they can't prove this isn't real life. They're dedicated to pretending this is a video game about killing yourself with as much collateral damage as possible, with a score system based on how fast all known life is wiped out. I'm one of the few people left with a more functioning brain, so I get muted

I really don’t understand what you are trying to say

You're blocking it out. You've been given all the info before. I assume you're vaguely aware of how Venus used to be more like Earth, right? And I'm sure you've heard of climate change and nuclear bombs. And I'm sure you've seen people denying climate change, and heard people say stuff like "I'm not scared of dying" but you didn't actually believe they'd be calm and chill if you responded by shooting them in the head. You're even in the COVID era, where you've seen people join in a widespread delusion of pretending surgical masks aren't designed to prevent the spread of diseases from the respiratory tract. You can also just read my posts and the discussions I have, instead of making shit up to make yourself feel better about your delusions. I talk about this stuff a lot. You're pretending to be a misguided intelligent person like Digit, who might learn from being taught, but your track record shows you don't pay attention while reading, so you're actually just an idiot wasting your time and energy trying to defend positions you're neither capable of defending nor abandoning.

What? What all of this has to do with anything? What are you trying to say? Who are the people you are talking about?

Your cognition seems to be shutting down to shield your delusions by pretending you can't even remember the context here. We were discussing why people in general often mute me.

People mute you because you say very smart things that undermine their beliefs and make them feel uncomfortable?

No, very sane things If I were smarter I could probably be more persuasive, that's why I always wonder what Digit could do with better mental health

Digit is your imaginary friend? Still haven’t figured out this one

Nope, she's Digit You've gotta pay more attention when reading, or simply read more

Who is she? Is she a person?

Yeah, she's a former wallstreetbets moderator

You do realize that tags are being used extensively in other kinds, right? And that instead of having all these crazy different kinds, it would be more useful and way simpler to just have a bunch of tags on notes. I think that is my one basic critique of the nostr protocol.

mine also, leave out the kinds, tags can be descriptive kinds are all over the place, sometimes one kind means 5 different actual messages, sometimes 4 kinds are actually 4 different messages. there's just no need for them when they could have meaningful tags also, the whole thing of single letter keys being indexed is stupid. considering a tag key is typically going to be a word no more than 12 characters long, you can jush hash it and take 4 bytes and done. index them all