Replies (118)
We're fucked
This shit needs to end
Local community banks work best with p2p exchanges, in case they flag your account you can go there and talk to real people in person.
Have you considered P2P selling? If you pay for everything on a credit card, sell btc to a pleb who pays into your credit card account. A bit of a FAFF but doable. There is also bitrefill and the Bitcoin company. You can buy gift vouchers to buy stuff, uber, amazon etc... You probably know this. Keep it up mate, we need more people like you. 🇬🇧🚒😎
Bitrefill, Coincards for some gift cards and normie stuff. I also use The Bitcoin Company for their pre paid Visa cards. Not the best tbh but you can use them with some normie stuff like ChatGPT and Kagi top ups. Also TrocadorApp and Stealth pre paid cards are good.
Those are all great services, but I don't think my landlord will accept payment in iTunes vouchers
Can't help with that other than my earlier suggestion, as long as you have one, pay him with a credit card
True. Cash maybe? Than you have to use P2P.
But I guess he wants a wire transfer. There are some offramp services like transak.com.. Maybe this can help you
Ligthningpay.nz has a bill pay feature for NZD. Not sure about other currencies. Similar to strike app
Double check your 1000 CHF limit before you make a move to Switzerland. Last week I got a mail from my swiss nokyc-sat-dealer where it says that from now on the limit is 999 CHF for all payments within a rolling 30-day period. Which effectively means 999 CHF per month and not per day anymore. At least I read it like that, I could be wrong here...
se your sats on robosats, have people send you cash via zelle, strike, cashapp.
She would still need a bank account for withdrawal.
stuff like this will scare people, hurt onboarding and could #killbitcoin before it really gets going.
L0la L33tz
Another day, another exchange I am suspended from.
All of my funds are conjoined or swapped between LN/XMR for privacy before sending to exchanges, triggering all sorts of nonsense AML flags.
The exchange I am with now is requesting proof of funds, meaning it wants to see fiat coming into my bank account from an entity I have a business relationship with, asking me to "kindly assist them" in surveilling me.
Except that all of my business relationships are handled in bitcoin – meaning that it is impossible for me to show proof of fiat funds.
Alternatively, the exchange says, I could send them “the address” to which I received payment in the last year, matching the amount of money I have exchanged on their platform.
Obviously no such address exists as I create a new address for each transaction (and so should you). Additionally, much of my money comes in through donations, for which I simply do not have an invoice.
I could now send them every single zap I ever received on nostr in the past year – for context, that would be over 250 zaps in the past week alone, s/o to all the zappers – or I could move my business to Switzerland, where I can exchange up to 1000 CHF per day KYC-free (for now), which is what I’m going to do.
However, since I’ll be more heavily relying on peer-to-peer exchanges from now on, I’ll likely have my bank account flagged for receiving weekly payments from randos on the internet, making it fairly foreseeable that I’ll be losing my bank account in the coming months as well.
Fundamental rights violations aside, the amount of complete nonsense work – and with that costs – this system creates both for the Government and private institutions is absolutely astonishing. If there ever was a true bullshit job, compliance officer would no doubt be it.
It’s time we end the global discrimination complex inherent to the financial system in which we are all guilty until proven innocent, only to upkeep an inefficient system that is useless in preventing crime but formidable for imposing mass surveillance on the people.
So no, I will not "kindly assist you" in surveilling me, and if I die on this hill.
Until then, shill me your favorite tools to pay my bills in bitcoin 👇
name names, which exchanges should be avoided?
#smij & #inquiring minds want to know.
Fiat loans against BTC collateral (eg
@npub19yfz...mc68)
ahh yes, too late for robosats then. lesson to be learned: dont mix your freedom money so much with the trad system.
I'm sorry, this is very frustrating.
Best advice I can give is to keep using p2p offramps like Robosats, but have some other bank accounts as fallbacks. If one bank closes your account that information is *not* shared across the industry (GDPR).
Likely that a few small transactions per month won't trigger any risk flags. Generally the pattern banks are looking for don't match that behavior, or are targeted on high values (e.g. €10k in a few days).
I buy and sell on Robosats every few weeks using Revolut for fiat and never had issues. Not sure about solutions when banks get forced into identifying this type of activity - hopefully that day is far into the future because it will be impossible for banks to know if the transactions they see are related to p2p Bitcoin trades, so they'd need some type of blunt heuristic which would affect people who are doing things unrelated to Bitcoin.
I share your hatred of compliance. Absolute waste of human potential, shadow state bullshit. ✊
Well if don't mind kyc'ing, then try bringing.xyz . You get a virtual EU IBAN, so you only ever transfer fiat between two bank accounts in *your* name - no some random folks you usually never interact with. This doesn't trigger AML algos
they definitely are but, i think its a maybe depending how you structure the deposits and the amounts. how many cleaning ladies are out there getting 10-15 deposits into their venmo each week? i think you can run with the robosats out / random deposit into Strike or zelle a lot longer than the route you are taking with a CEX and withdrawing to trad bank. 🤙
hmmmm this could actually be a very smart idea and save me from capital gains tax
Debifi is for companies, not individuals.
Firefish.io can be used for individuals.
You can check out bill pay tools listed here.
The bill pay ecosystem is still early (They're for The United States (as of now).
Usually the letter comes once funds are firmly in their custody. That way they blackmail you and force you to comply.
Are you able to get your money back if you refuse to comply?
Ah, thank you for the concern, but luckily I dont keep funds on exchanges – that would have been an incredible nightmare. I was notified of the suspension before sending funds in for a trade fortunately.
The bill pay tools used to be going strong but they all disappeared somehow - thank you for sharing!
This is the way
Nah, we're so here
We'll be on the look out for more options as the arise 🤗.
This is an absolute pain in the ass and a time drainer but it works:
Buy a Google Pixel phone when they are on sale with a voucher and flash GrapheneOS onto it and sell it for CASH as a ‘privacy’ phone for the price you paid for it OR sell some high value items that hold value OK like MacBooks and iPhone Pros and cop the 10-15% hit.
I get it, this sucks and is probably only worth doing once or twice when shit hits the 🪭.
We all have to start preparing for the economic lockdowns around Bitcoin. It will get worse before it gets better
Why not use RoboSats instead of a KYC exchange?
Smaller the bank usually the more expensive they are to work with, from my experience
Its not that they're "expensive" in the sense of minimums or fees, they simply don't have access to certain large bank features like overdraft protection, large cash withdrawals, maximum ACH transfers, no home mortgages; let alone a car, etc.
My bank gets nervous when I ask for $1,000 cash as they know they don't have that in the vault; it must be ordered and takes several business days.
Pay with moon active again?
I haven't used Debifi myself yet (but following it with interest). I take loans from another provider in USDt and then convert that USDt to fiat by a little bit of a roundabout way (but one that nets me a an additional 4%).
Loans against BTC collateral is a very promising area for development (and with more competition will come better options and lower rates). That's because BTC is the best form of collateral.
Maybe RoboSats could be something that can help
Super concerning, thanks for sharing. As long as we need fiat to pay bills, it seems like this will always be an issue. SHIT.
@npub19yfz...mc68 is for individuals too
Time to say goodbye the old lady at the bank
End with its “none of your business”
Wasn’t their business to start with
we are all on the thick end of the wedge, heading for the thin end.
I have been promoting the idea of securing your most important needs in Bitcoin before you need it.
Rainy day funds work better when you already know what you're doing with them.
Cheers & good luck on your journey 🍀.
What are you using?
That was sweet when it was around.
KYC is the illicit activity
Neo banks in Switzerland aren't that bad. I'd recommend going through kraken with a swiss bank account.
Have you tried cakepay
this is full kyc though?
For USDt loans? Currently using Bitfinex with a relatively small amount of BTC that was already KYCd. Will go with HodlHodl soon for better privacy. Bitfinex does have a fairly frictionless UX though, which is convenient. Probably I will pay off the loan on Bitfinex with USDt from an HH loan and then reuse the freed BTC collateral on Bitfinex. Could keep recycling it in that way.
😥
I assume you are in Europe then? At least not in US?
And *I* kindly request *your* assistance in fucking the fuck off.
Do you have your private keys or seed phrase in that exchange? If so, you at least own your btc. But some exchanges hold your keys, soy in this case, if you cannot "assist", you're done.
Fuck centralized exchanges and fuck government.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Bisq. I regularly see on there people selling BTC for cash by mail. Tends to be 5% or so below market value.
This might not solve your problem entirely, but can you use an ATM as a stopgap? Convert to cash and buy coffee. Most of the countries in EU allow daily 950EUR buy/sell no KYC at least for now.
Here where I live it seems different, there is mainly a difference between digital-only neobanks (like Revolut) and the oldschool offline banks with branches in most smaller cities. They are for sure more expensive (monthly fees etc.) but seem way more chill when doing "unusual" stuff, e.g. just give you a call instead of locking the account. Best is to circumvent banks to begin with...
are RoboSats and BISQ not an option for you?
otherwise why not just use bitrefill for most of your fiat expenses?
As far as I can tell it works, there are some new cool features and types of cards you can generate, etc. When was it not working?
Don't play with taxes. That gives govt legit reason to prosecute you...
Not in the USA, no.
Bitfinex loans unavailable to US Americans ?
I forgot about MICA as it is so stupid. Checked out the countries and indeed from March 2025 KYC rollout starts, 2025 full KYC all users. When they started full KYC in Ireland, all the ATMs disappeared.
Yes. Same with hodlhodl & many others. Zero P2P available here stateside
Yes the benefit I have with local bank is I've known them for decades and can talk to someone face-to-face
Always just have another larger account to which I can transfer to/from as needed.
Write several paper checks per month still
much respect and admiration for what you are doing
What exactly triggered the notification of suspension? Were you actively using the app or did you just receive a notification out of the blue?
Look into robosats and BISQ
it's all so retarded
“First, they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. ”
“First, they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. ”
More bitcoin services would fix that.
Your only obstacle seems to be that you are hiring services that are paid only in fiat.
Have you looked into @lnp2pbot on Telegram.
Made by
@negrunchCan you use Bisq (p2p exchange) to convert some btc in fiat and then pay your bills ?
What? For real? I could sworn I tried it early 24 and it wasn't live
Website doesn't work
Strike has been workong great for me, but obviously it's another KYC/custodial solution.
As long as n exchange is involved we are shackled to the fiat system and can expect this type of nonsense. I dream of the day when exchanges are no longer needed.
We can't help with your rent or bills, but could help with Groceries, Gas, Clothing etc through gift cards.
Feel free to reach out if you have any questions. Big fans of your work! 🧡
Sigh. This is an example of white listed versus grey listed bitcoin where we have to pay a premium to sell joined/mixed/flagged utxos by having to sell on P2P exchanges at a discount. A threat to the fungibility of bitcoin.
Sorry typo.. it's bringin.xyz
Ok, seems you can borrow as individual too.
Lender had to be institutional though.
A shitcoin?
KYCnot.me has a lot of resources. As for bill pay, depends on country you're in...
I just had a similar scare this morning with Wise asking me for some proof of something.
I've not had much issue since I have a normie job which let's me file normie taxes which gets Wise the documents they say they need.
Not sure what I'll do when I become financially independent and they randomly ask for some document I won't have and get my bank shut down...
Still possible to buy prepaid $500 Visa cards.
Bitrefill
Coincards.com
Check this out for a more complete list of resources
https://expatriotic.me/expatriotics-master-list/Clark, pls talk to Strike and Primal about this. I’ve been trying, but keep getting shut down by fanboys.
Together they are doxxing every Primal iOS wallet through Strike’s KYC (without clear consent). They need to be pushed to implement a NWC (Nostr Wallet Connect) option or this all turns into We Chat / We Pay.
I have successfully used this to get digital gift cards, however, I have run into multiple instances where the digital card is not supported for purchasing things online. I found a work around is by adding the card to Google wallet, which then works without issue locally through Google pay. Unfortunately...it's google
If he takes Google pay, throw the bitcoin company visa into it and use that way.
If you need any further information about Firefish.io, you may contact me at marco_at_firefish_dot_io
Happy to help. Thanks!
Have you tried Bisq or Robosats?
Thought it was KYC light, ie if you have a bank account anyway you use that as the KYC requirement not more KYC?
nope, the world's first anon DAO and Darkirc comms
Pro tip: cancel your bank account before they can cancel yours. It's a very liberating feeling.
Shopinbit.com concierge agents can get you literally anything for bitcoin, lightning and monero accepted too.,
So, a platform not a token?
I appreciate your integrity as you have repeatedly attempted to inform and warn the community of this very thing. Sadly I don’t have an answer to your very important and specific need here and frankly, the majority(all) of the recommendations thus far mentioned are both telling and somewhat depressing because I am seeing alot of naïveté versus seriously considered implications.
It’s a shitshow really! I think if you send the funds to your Phoenix lightning wallet and then from there to the exchange, again using lightning, they wouldn’t notice the coinjoin.
I’m thinking sending the money to Wallet of Satoshi is not first before sending it to Phoenix is not a terrible idea either, though WoS is a custodial, but non-KYC lighting wallet and your funds will be “mixed” in their channels. But I haven’t personally done this and I don’t know whether WoS limits anyone for sending coinjoined funds. If anyone has an experience, would be curious to know in the comments.
How do you pay your bills with Bisq or Robosats?
It's not a surprise that you're one of the only people to directly answer the question.
Users are choosing to doxx themselves. NWC doesn't fix this. Apple is a walled garden and you have to play by their rules. You can choose to stop asking for permission.
How do you pay your bills with Robosats?
You either offer BTC for a fiat transaction to a bank account you control or directly ask for a bill payment. You can add whatever you want under "payment method" and with the right premium you will find someone to trade.
self-custody for your sats and Bitrefill for your bills 🧘♂️
Sell Bitcoin for fiat
A criminal unless proven otherwise.
It's funny, because the criminals probably know the rules just as well as the rule makers.
It's the regular people that have to burden the cost of this silly game.
The last link doesn’t work. For the “Master list”
This is really getting out of hand. A month ago one large exchange asked me to prove the origin of my BTC. I sent them a statement from a global bank where I bought 1 BTC just for such an occasion. But then, the exchange asked me to prove the source of funds in that bank account! So they don't trust KYC/AML done by other shops and hope we run out of documents to defend ourselves.
I haven’t tried it and they seem to be doing a lot of shitcoinery too but I heard about this service called ka.app that allows converting BTC to fiat and viceversa.
It's worked fine for me
because the rule makers are the criminals themselves and hate competition.
why you use exchanges? non-kyc p2p is the way we should push
you can p2p into usdt and then sell that through exchange. kind of like a proxy between real money and kyc dictatorship money.
but in general, until bitcoin is accepted directly, we will have to deal with this bs, and find workarounds which exist in every situation. having one kyc'ed address with provable source of funds solves many problems - they already know your identity anyway if you are buying fiat, so just show them something they can be happy with.
KYC is a government enforced social engineering de-anonymization attack.
Act accordingly.
