An interactivity metric? How much one npub interacts with others? Following doesn't mean a lot, but repeated comments, zaps, likes could.

Number of gm posts, only one per day measured in UTC time will count to the total 😂

It would be good for mental health. But might remove the incentive that keeps some people engaging - mostly people who are still stuck in that mindset or use vanity metrics to bolster image

Most answered questions on the #asknostr hashtag

I wish… web of trust-based follower count seems like the only way? Would be cool if we could prove follows with recursive ZKPs somehow so we don’t have to verify the signature for every follow.

maybe something like coracles WoT score? Idk either, def an interesting question

Amount zapped to fiatjaf?

A social credit score? 😀

To have or not to have followers-counter is the kind of design decision that every client need to figure out itself. There is a non-questionable absolute metric to mesoure the value of a npub: the value you as a free individual arbitrarly assign to it. There is a surrogated to that, and it is something like a ponderated median of followers-zaps-interactions-andsoon... There is a non-questionable and cool way to choose what NPUBs show up first as "suggested": it's doing advertising. Who pays is publicized. @ZEUS does something like that in his website promoting and ranking its contributors.

As someone who doesnt even want to partake in GM, I mean… you’re not wrong.

Simple answer: PoW. It's the only metric that can't be gamed and for which there is no need for consensus.

kind event1/ kind events total

Got to be something revolving around web of trust. That’s the only way I can see building something that’s truly hard to game

I don't even know my follower count and I don't care. Not being shadow banned is worth more than any number of people not seeing the content because of said sb.

I dunno, but I think it will rhyme with ‘proof of work’

still sound very fiat to meeeee

*s

*s

WoT score makes more sense than follower count on Nostr imo

Maybe based on how many time your post are shared by users? Crossed with a WOT score based on your followers? Something like WOT is already implemented? 🤔

What if it was # of people I follow that follow you? "46 Friends following"

Then you can just use the gm WoT measurement to filter out users from your timeline!

Burning zaps. Sure it's a waste but at least it's verifiable.

This.

Number of people you follow who follow them.

GM...

Age of npub in days

Echo chamber network is the name

What if... We measure followers based on reactions? The bots aren't zapping, reposting, liking, or doing anything human other then creating hits. So unless they change it base it on interactions?? Even chats could count if the users have done it at least 5x?

In all seriousness: any meaningful measure has to be multi-dimensional, if we want to evolve beyond the eternal chasing of followers and likes.

Example: PoW + OTS account age + economic activity + WoT + reputation (or endorsements) + posting activity + ...

There's a lot of value in echo chambers but that phrase only has a negative connotation. As an example, I can immediately have a different conversation with bitcoiners than I can with my neighbors.

Knowing the extent of the echo chamber is a lot more useful than the current "followers" number

We have an addictive serotonin shot here- its called zapping people sats Fk follower counts idc

Gotta take it easy on the addiction cowboy but good to understand how it works. Dopamaine hit is pretty powerful. The feeling of success makes a diff. Wordle is a simple game that got millions of people in - easy to solve, gives quick dopamine hit, keeps people coming back for more. In Walter Isaacson’s book, when Steve Jobs started the apps, gamers were the initial user magnet. Seratonin is powerful too - that’s why people love giving, love learning. And why informative content creation is a hit. Pair this with zaps, wham. And just the right amount keeps away mania. Oxytocin is wonderful, people who go to Nostr conferences have a different form of connection and gentleness with each other. Using all this to create a satisfied user is wonderful. Using this to create monsters and zombies are not good. People also would love platform they can advance themselves. Use cases enables this. 100 diff innovation has 100 diff niche users to start with. For example, say an indie music platform developer creates his program on Nostr - he/she can’t just assume people will miraculously start using it. He/she needs to go out there and knock on doors and reach out to as many artist. Am I fabricating this shit ? This actually happened during Punk / Hacker era in 70s and 80s post beatnik. That’s how mix tape started - and more and more independent musicians broke away from labels. Imagine if they had zaps. But devs cannot keep building stuff and then stay on this platform and whine that no users show up lah. My eyes, ears can bleed from the whining. Obviously users are not gonna show up. Have to go hunt for them. And no, you don't need some fancy marketing. Just figure out who your target market is and reach out them. It’s the same for bitcoin as well. Bitcoin has all the potential to be global currency but can only be it, if users use it. And the same for all innovation. All entrepreneurs have this problem. I do too. No users, no business And out of everyone they hunt, 90% will fade away but the 10% early adopters will remain and are precious. Keep hunting, keep fine tuning target market, keep growing. Eventually Nostr will explode. I didn’t stop coming frequently to Nostr because men attack women (women attack men and other women just as nasty here). But I stop coming here frequently because of how privileged and spoilt devs are here. Maybe someday when I’m at a better state myself and won’t feel so bad anymore, I’ll come back more frequently. I know there are a lot of funds by @jack because he genuinely believes in this. Quite honestly having Jack as safety net only means devs, innovators and entrepreneurs can try like mad to make Nostr work. But surprising its quite the opposite here and I don't understand why. I hope Nostr doesn’t become a government agency-like establishment where everyone gets too comfortable and can get money until they retire. Open source innovation is different. I think so far only Will has come close to understanding the ecosystem - and that’s because he has guts to put himself out there, try and fail and try again. But if devs don’t try to hunt for users, not wanting to learn beyond what they know, too damn egoistic, and think everyone should worship the ground they walk on, then no matter what drug you wanna infuse users into snorting, it just won’t work.

I briefly thought about it. Thinking out loud, what about just counting interactions? No public followers list at all

id love for nostr to turn into the place where social platforms don't show likes or follwer counts. we don't care about those things. we're just being social with one another.

Related:

Weighted 'zaps received' by people in webs of trust

The solution exists on @ hodlbod coracle: WOT score. cc @franzap Here is the meme View quoted note →

Active hours spent on nostr

@waxwing built a cool new way to prove you own X btc without doxxing the UTXO. Let's gamify the size of your stack. You know...for science.

POW

just pow

Web of trust is what makes the most sense to me. Verification and followers don’t matter. A trust score that is relevant to the accumulated of the vouchers/connections in the network makes the most sense imo

a bunch of llms decide how 'full of knowledge' our accounts are

How feasible is implementing web of trust based on NFTs in #nostr & weighted zaps as Proof of Reputation (PoR),. Decentralized Society (DeSoc) 1/ A first sketch of Decentralized Society (DeSoc): https://t.co/rdTSL8QpJP… Honored to have collaborated with @glenweyl and @vitalikbuterin on what will hopefully become a novel field of research, inquiry, and co-creation across our technological stack. — Puja Ohlhaver (@pujaohlhaver) May 11, 2022 Within a DeSoc context, SBTs are issued by and held within accounts known as “Souls”. Souls are contract addresses in a wallet that hold SBTs and are used to establish provenance and reputation. Souls can be associated with individuals, organizations, or other entities.

1/ A first sketch of Decentralized Society (DeSoc):

Decentralized Society: Finding Web3's Soul by Puja Ohlhaver, E. Glen Weyl, Vitalik Buterin :: SSRN

Web3 today centers around expressing transferable, financialized assets, rather than encoding social relationships of trust. Yet many core economic...

User reviews from other users.. A #NostrAdvisor review, that of course takes consideration only the reviews/vote/scores made by user and #noatriches you already follow. If they game the reviews or you don't like them, mute their reviews.

gm

I believe wot is the solution, and global state/metrics/algos have limited future. We don't use 'number of links' to measure the popularity of a website. We don't really even have a concept of such a metric on the web (that normal people would understand), that should tell us something. That said, the only hard-to-game metric that worked reliably at huge scale is pagerank. But it's costly to calc, and thus only a few would run it, and results depend on the inputs which will differ, and so competing ranks would always differ, even if they were based on the same algo. And then it's just a meaningless number to most people, only usable for algos. Also there's a difference btw knowing how many people follow you (you know whether you cheated or not), and how many people follow others (when you want to compare yourself just for fun), and a reliable metric usable for algos. In short: follower count of yours is a fine metric most of the time (to estimate how many people might hear you), follower count of others to compare to yours can be manipulated but that's unlikely and harmless, follower count for algos is a very very bad idea - pagerank for global, wot for personalized.

hive.one was making something that looked like pagerank for social networks. I think they shut down because Twitter started charging a million bucks for API access. @maciek had promised me he would do it for Nostr, but he has vanished.

Very good point about number of links not being a thing that exists for webpages.

WorldCoin fixes this.

Tags? Of most posted content. Make it apparent what type of content the notes have, so it gives you a sense of what a user talks about.

I think the most interesting data, if there isn't already a NIP for this, would be a way of synthesizing the reputation of that hash. This would be very useful in implementations with commercial purposes, such as delivery/ride-sharing apps and marketplaces.

(when I say hash, I mean the npub and derivatives)

I arrived for the censorship resistance, I'm staying because of the WOT.

I'm all for decentralized proofs-of-personhood. You go to some physical place, a human talks to you and says a magic phrase, you write that in your phone and perform a signature with your Nostr key using a special kind. That person then awards you with a badge that says you are really a human. No KYC involved. You can go back there the next day with a different key, but the person on the place will actually recognize you using their human recognition abilities and deny you a second badge.

Nah

Also related:

A simpler (more arbitrary and more widely applicable) “is trusted” event could solve for this use case and others as well.

That is essentially page rank

Note count of preceding 24 hours, or daily regardless of kind. Could be a way to show activity level vs lurker

But even without the popularity contest created by “likes” and “follows”, Nostr still does need a reliable measure of “trust”. Establishing Webs of Trust between humans IS how Nostr (clients and relays and dvms) can help humans to discover more trusted humans and content on Nostr. Such a measure of “trust”, pioneered by Nostr, could be what differentiates our social network from others. A simple (and private) “Is trusted” event should suffice.

also quickly identify bots. cool idea

I don't know if this relates to that, but it might. I have been thinking about a verification system for Nostr (no, NIP-05 is not verification). Maybe the amount of verified followers would be a better metric?

I built it View quoted note →

We had to pivot the company. I still want to do a score like this for Nostr, but we need to get the company on a stable financial footing first.

This is how I am for distinguishing web of (minimal) trust from Reputation: - Web of trust is the basic filter that can tap into multiple sources of trust (e.g. social follows, some sort of bootstrap list, nip51 lists, nip29 member lists) and sources are CONFIGURABLE by the user, with sane defaults. - Reputation gives meaning to this by scoring people based on reviews and other possible metrics. Reviews are filtered through WoT and can be used to help the user make important decisions e.g. in SatShoot to select the right counterparty for a freelance deal. The key is to understand your users' needs and use the types of events and UX that will help in whatever problem your app solves. Generic, globalist views of this matter lead nowhere. THIS: INSTEAD OF THIS: View quoted note →