Replies (118)
even if he’s paying attention he’s not doing shit by siloing himself here
This is fucked IMHO. If we start the censorship game in Bitcoin, we're toast.
go to twitter and engage in these types of threads, vocally support Knots (you don’t even have to run it imo but running it is a strong signal), vocally detest shitcoins and educate on their detriments
X (formerly Twitter)
Peter Todd (@peterktodd) on X
https://t.co/tc9tXIKAMd
Yeah, pretty soon this tx will get mined, bypassing your filters...
The guy whose company deals in ETH isn't the best bitcoiner?
How many heros have to fall before you learn to stop worshipping in general?
Ffs. It so god damn hard, on face value, to tell who is a good or bad actor in the Bitcoin space. Going to get increasingly harder I'd imagine. Especially for those less technical :(.
thank you for sharing
On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad is it to be blocked by them?
The profit from arbitrary data on Bitcoin seems to have dropped to SFA going by the near empty mempool, so does it matter?
Challenge Core’s monopoly by running Knots instead.
Are
@ODELL and Lopp friends?
🫡🫡
I thought bitcoin was “just” money.
I cannot even think of a use case for smart contracts. They are very problematic at best imho
Not a good idea...
It’s a better implementation anyway.
You got blocked because you should attack ideas rather than people. You need to work on learning how to engage in contentious conversations in good faith.
FYI my investments are all disclosed on my web site
Jameson Lopp :: Angel Investor
Jameson Lopp: cypherpunk, co-founder & CTO of Casa, Bitcoin proponent
which tells me the outrage is not genuine - no one actually bothered to look.
No. It's a different implementation. Better is subjective and I don't think running different implementations of Bitcoin is a good idea. Neither did Satoshi.
alright - swapping to knots on one of my devices.
I dont care about the spam-blocking, but we need node diversity and these devs are getting really out of touch
Which is exactly why you should focus on ideas rather than upon people.
We deal in security and we'll help anyone secure valuable assets if there is sufficient demand for our services.
It is a fork. A fork that changes non-consensus features and therefore cannot in any way have consensus issues.
I know that. Maybe I'm wrong but it's just the vibes.
"We'll help anyone secure valuable assets"
This post provides 0 explanation for why you offer ETH services.
The more the merrier? Let them compete on merit.
This is the equivalent of saying, “by the way all of my investments are in my desk drawer at home, no one bothered to look.”
You are trying to change Bitcoin in a way that directly benefits a company you have equity in. That should be at the top of the GitHub thread.
A classic case of “Bitcoin is broken, quick let’s implement a change that will benefit me personally!”
It's a laughable claim. My investment in Citrea is a rounding error relative to my BTC. Harming Bitcoin in order to help Citrea would be an insane decision on my part.
Yes. As a non contributed to code. It is a little unsettling to hear ppl talk of "attacks" on Bitcoin.. Maybe they just want cheaper SATs, maybe they just want Bitcoin to act in a specific way, or not change..
You’ve done stranger things
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> Neither did Satoshi
For when you can't think for yourself ...
I'm not attacking you, I'm highlighting the conflict of interest as it's relevant to the discussion.
You know you can take what other smart people with more experience into consideration when forming your own thoughts right? To not do so is ignorance of wisdom.
Fuck off, get a real job.
Fuck off, get a real job
That seemed like a perfectly legitimate response. You should be able to prove your point without banning the people speaking against it.
But since you can't do that here: fuck you you moralizing prick.
It's not relevant because my interests are irrelevant to the discussion.
"I like this proposal" is not an argument with any merit, and thus I don't make such statements.
Rather, the question is how we anticipate ~any number of entities~ to use block space for their desired data anchoring objectives given the constraints imposed upon them.
Did you invest in Citrea before or after you knew they were creating unspendable taproot outputs?
I'm not a Bitcoin Core moderator and I had nothing to do with their actions. 🤷🏻
So why remove the option? Just let the users choose for themselves
I suspect the common answer you'd get is that the option is ultimately irrelevant and the data will arrive in blocks regardless.
Fine, but what's the problem with leaving it in?
Because we have clients who pay us to help them self custody tokens issued on that network. Stablecoins are by far the biggest driver of demand. Is that a simple enough explanation?
You new here?
Cries of censorship on Bitcoin Core pull requests seem to happen every few years at minimum.
This is literally discussed in the PR you can read for yourself.
You are not against the block either.
"You got blocked because you should attack ideas rather than people."
Since when revealing a conflict of interest is personal attack?
There is no way to verify this claim, is there? “Harming” bitcoin means different things to different people. The big blockers didn’t think they were harming bitcoin
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TLDR man just say it here for the eyeballs
What becuae it's easily bypassed? That doesn't explain what the harm is in leaving it in
That was mostly just for the laugh obviously.
Serious point, though keep in mind I read screenshots and not the entire exchange.
I'm in it for the revolution. As an outsider to your thoughts who is in it for the revolution... Taking payments to handle ETH and stablecoins as well as taking money from NFT people looks an awful lot like NGU prioritized over the revolution.
I value some of the research you've done. I agree with you that attempting to filter arbitrary data from blocks is ultimately impossible, and I don't filter on my node or miners. I follow you here, but I always think a little harder before deciding my position about what you posted because I question your core drive.
Your decisions that look like NGU over the revolution deserve to be side eyed by the revolution first crowd. The revolution first crowd should be allowed to share that context around your decisions so that others can make the most informed decision.
For someone of your position in the community, people look to you. We can't all make fully informed fully technical decisions. You know this and this is why you share your opinions. Context of your other professional bitcoin and crypto decisions isn't slander if it is true. It is valuable information that helps the rest of us make sense of what thinking brought you to your decision.
Trying to limit where people can share truthful context about you falls into the this guy kinda looks like a NGU first bucket to me. I like dedicated and helpful researcher Loop a lot more than NGU Lopp.
New here in what sense? I'm not a Bitcoin core dev, and no I am not deeply in tune with the social dynamics of Bitcoin pull requests, but I've been around long enough to remember r/bitcoin & r/btc censorship and I don't think that was necessarily a net positive for Bitcoin as a whole.
What was basis for banning Mechanic exactly?
Your final paragraph sheds light on the misunderstanding. I'm not claiming anyone is slandering me nor am I silencing anyone; my investments are publicly disclosed at
Jameson Lopp :: Angel Investor
Jameson Lopp: cypherpunk, co-founder & CTO of Casa, Bitcoin proponent
The moderation on Bitcoin Core pull requests is their WRITTEN POLICY, not mine.
Rule #2: "Comments will be about ideas, not people."
GitHub
meta/MODERATION-GUIDELINES.md at main · bitcoin-core/meta
Contribute to bitcoin-core/meta development by creating an account on GitHub.
Fair enough. Not sure his comments warranted being labeled "abuse" and him being banned entirely though.
Convenient to have that policy to stand behind. You have to admit the line between about the person and about the PR is a little blurry when your personal investments stand to go up significantly if your PR is merged.
Who made the call on that shade of gray, you or a 3rd party?
Streisand Effect
Apparently pointing out the publicly known financial incentives behind an idea is off limits.
A conflict of interest implies that changing the OP_RETURN policy would somehow make my Citea investment worth more.
I'd love for someone to explain how that would happen. Citrea's bridge will function regardless of how they anchor the data in the blockchain.
If the policy change results in enhanced scalability and cost-efficiency, this would boost Citrea’s appeal for DeFi and smart contract applications.
Bitcoin is for everyone. Expect bad actors to be attracted to the space.
Running knots
Bitcoiners talking about conflict of interest again? I see another shism on the horizon.
Also Blockstream was a big battle field of interest that got ignored by many.
Bitcoin Mechanic
He attacks Bitcoin
This motivates a major change to Bitcoin
In the resulting discussion on github, he approves of this change (that is motivated by his attack)
If you point out this conflict of interest - no matter how politely - you will be banned.
@ODELL hope you're paying attention to all this
Should I give you the long list of bug fixes and policy improvements introduced in Knots? Not to mention the level of extra control it gives the node operator? And no, it’s not a different implementation - it follows the exact same consensus rules. Knots is NOT a fork like Bcash or BSV. What Satoshi warned against was implementations that deviate from consensus, not ones like Knots, which is essentially a mirror of Core - minus the politics and the influence of five bad actors who refuse to take responsibility for their mistakes or possibly malicious decisions. Maybe
@Luke Dashjr would like to add an extra something.
Can’t, I’m blocked
#btcfail
Bitcoin Mechanic
He attacks Bitcoin
This motivates a major change to Bitcoin
In the resulting discussion on github, he approves of this change (that is motivated by his attack)
If you point out this conflict of interest - no matter how politely - you will be banned.
@ODELL hope you're paying attention to all this
Bitcoin Mechanic
He attacks Bitcoin
This motivates a major change to Bitcoin
In the resulting discussion on github, he approves of this change (that is motivated by his attack)
If you point out this conflict of interest - no matter how politely - you will be banned.
@ODELL hope you're paying attention to all this
That's some sort of idea of yours that Satoshi is/was a smart person.
So why are you making insane decisions?
So what’s their goal….remove the limits to make shitcoining on bitcoin a better experience? Just go use eth and sol..these people suck.
please make an argument that he wasn't... Not sure why you hold bitcoin if you don't believe it was a smart idea...
I'm not.
No one has been able to demonstrate that arbitrary data in OP_RETURNs is more harmful than arbitrary data in witnesses.
Lolwut, I don't?
You don't hold Bitcoin? You will one day... HFSP.
Yeah nah that's unlikely.
It definitely has nothing to do with money and power of course
looking at the above screenshot alone,
but it isnt an attack or anything that makes banning BM ok.
We’re social beings, Jameson. That is much easier said than done. Anyway, in this vein, should the idea that an idea might have special consideration because of possible financial circumstances be verboten?
how was that an attack on a person?
What a little cry baby he is
What's disturbing IMHO is that
@Bitcoin Mechanic was banned from the Github discussion after highlighting a conflict of interest by a VC investor who is in favour of the change.
Bitcoin Mechanic
He attacks Bitcoin
This motivates a major change to Bitcoin
In the resulting discussion on github, he approves of this change (that is motivated by his attack)
If you point out this conflict of interest - no matter how politely - you will be banned.
@ODELL hope you're paying attention to all this
Pointing out a disclosure that you should have pointed out yourself instead of expecting people to go to your website is not a personal attack.
In fairness, just calling conflict of interest doesn't really argue for or against an idea. I don't think you should have been banned, but I would like to hear why the change is bad for Bitcoin (whatever that means to you). Conflict of interest isn't necessarily bad (I have a conflict of interest by just holding my wealth in Bitcoin), which is why I need a little more than that as an argument. I didn't see the whole exchange. Just going off what I see here.
I don't really agree with your point of view, nor do I agree with the Knots guy's ideas, this kind of behavior in a debate about something so contested is really detrimental to bitcoin
It's a useless argument at best. I wouldn't call it ban worthy. It doesn't really say anything about the actual merit of the idea. Someone benefitting from something doesn't necessarily make them bad or wrong. It IS warranted as a caution sign, but only in the absence of a valid argument from the opponent. If they say "just cuz" then I'd say conflict of interest probably is their only reason.
On a side note, it is interesting that something like Bitcoin is built, discussed, and maintained behind centralized walls. I get it earlier on because we didn't have options. But Google and Microsoft in 2025? For Bitcoin anything? Lol It seems to me that anyone who believes in the core principles of Bitcoin wouldn't want people to be able to be banned from the conversation. Individual mute seems reasonable.
And we have #Nostr now.
It doesn’t seem pointing out the conflict of interest is being used as an argument to the idea. It reads more as a request for transparency within the medium where the conversation is taking place.
Nonsense.
#Bitcoin has been attacked left and right and has always won. An attack does not mean its failing. Its getting even stronger. Study #Bitcoin's history.
I agree with this opinion.
BitcoinIsFuture
I find the comments on OP_RETURN by @wizkid057 make sense and especially this one
Okay, I see what you mean now.
To me this means he is not a Bitcoin maxi but everyone is free to do whatever they want so long they are not harming others.
With the access and influence he has, the most important thing is to not act against Bitcoin and with bad intent.
sending support and running knots
100% agree. How did we end up screaming into the void about decentralization but letting some group of people restricting us from having a voice in this matter.
Ohh dear....
Again, please fuck off scammer. Do something useful
Thanks for sharing. Quite concerning
Yeah, welcome to "freedom"*
You might as well just use monero at this point. At least you get privacy and good gains over there.
That's a totally separate issue.
Kindly and respectfully fork off then and see how it goes.
All arbitrary data harms Bitcoin
A lot of people are voicing their concerns and your answer is to silence them and move goal posts. Why don’t you just fork off and go play dick butt somewhere else?
The burden of proof does not lie with the status quo. Tinkering with something that is arguably working well can lead to unintended consequences.
You sound confused. I'm not a Bitcoin Core moderator.
Such as Bible verses amirite?
Has no comeback
Defaults to ad hominem attack
Totally not a bad faith actor
Pointing out hypocrisy is definitely a comeback 😆
Not your best work
I hope the irony of you ignorantly insulting someone’s religion when you complain about ignorant comments opposing the PR is not lost on you
Whoa now, I'm not ignorant of Christianity - I have 18 years of deep involvement!
Who locked the thread to contributors only?
deflect, deflect, deflect.
Here is a core dev who suggested limiting the discussion to code contributers only. That means for him community has no voice ...
/EclipseMC: What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?
I don't think you've demonstrated how storing jpegs on my node improves bitcoin's use as money
this was more than 10 years ago, some people learn from their failures others don't
Weren’t the Bible verses in the coinbase transaction?
This is a genuine question and not an attack.
