Replies (110)
Amazon gift cards. Read about the tradeoffs on the robosats info page.
No one selling is accepting those.
Post a buy offer and increase the premium. It’ll get picked up.
Giftcards were easiest for me.
Rite-Aid + cash+ mask= profit
Yeah I'm also not a fan of sending fiat money across the SEPA banking network to random people. It's a paper trail alright and you don't know your counterpart. He could be a drug dealer, money launderer, pedo... whatever. You don't know them, you don't know if their accounts are flagged and you're exposing yourself to creating a financial connection to someone you maybe shouldn't be tied to.
That part of "non-kyc" never made sense to me and never will.
How do you plan to buy the Monero?
If you can get some stablecoin (somewhere, CEX) then you can just flip that to Monero or Sats @
NonKYC
NonKYC cryptocurrency exchange - Buy and sell cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum, and more on our secure and user-friendly platform. Start trading today.
NonKYC cryptocurrency exchange - Buy and sell cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum, and more on our secure and user-friendly platform. Start tra...
But you still have that paper trail of buying the stablecoin. But, you get spot price on your swaps, no premium.
Ya, I’ve been trying to flag this for people. Any one of these sellers on Robosats could be a person just gathering data on everyone who is buying “KYC” free sats and just aggregating that shit for some purpose later. If I was a fed (I swear Im not), you could id hundreds of people every month and just file that shit away for later.
@npub1mftv...rkl3 could be an option, but it's not very popular in the US yet.
It's made for p2p in person transactions.
To add, using your bank to buy btc from a rando on the internet, you might as well just buy on strike and send it to yourself on bull bitcoin wallet swapping into liquid and later move on chain.
At least then you are your own counterparty, but the KYC exposure is the same and at least you don’t have your data being aggregated by secret feds or otherwise entangle your banking information with someone who might be doing crimes and later finding yourself getting subpoenaed.
Ya I looked into it, basically no one in the US.
I think the move is going to be just having all the normies I’ve on boarded just sending me satoshis from their KYC’d accounts for cash. Ive done that a few times, they dont give a shit and I can do a few hundred here or there.
Yeah
@npub1mftv...rkl3 needs to get Nostr contacts added. There are to s of people that I only know here and not via phone number
Love to see you're exploring decentralized noKYC options.
You still end up with the problem of getting Monero nonKYC.
Question is, what payment method WOULD you be comfortable with?
It all comes back to cash, doesn't it? ie, cash-by-mail or finding someone in your area to take cash.
I mean, you can get Amazon gift cards noKYC and use them as payment but you have to weigh the headaches involved and the margins....
Ya I’m open minded to all the stuff. I’m pretty sure that in person cash is really the only way. I’ve landed on just having all folks I’ve onboarded to strike or river to just sell me some of their kycd sats. I already do that but I need to up my efforts. 6102 v2 is nigh.
The only way i see you solving that prob is a face to face with cash.. perhaps a local btc meetup?
fwiw I have done one or two hundred CBM trades and never had a problem.
Agree that hitting your local network of folks is the best way 👍️
Meet ups are dangerous, met a few good people but there’s always one or two of “that guy” that would stab you for a sandwich and a hot coffee.
But yes, in person is the thing.
What’s CBM? Sorry, am retard.
I guess scale isthe question here too. If you are just doing a few hundred buck buy / sell i wouldnt worry too much about giving your zelle info out, imo.
Strike i think only shows your username, same as cashapp so if you have not personalized thay the person shouldnt pickup any personal deets.
Those details are all a lawyer needs to get your personal information via subpoena. You wouldn’t believe what I can find with subpoena power. I do it all day.
Ya...sounds like just use a CEX then and hold your own keys 🤷♂
A wire transfer is a wire transfer and if the receiver is flagged you're creating an unwanted connection. It's not just about your details.
I wrote a long-form note about using Robosats to buy kyc-free Bitcoin, but it's nit appearing in my searches. It might be out dated anyway. The method describes using Amazon gift cards.
Absolutely
ya, this is true
Precisely. Your counterpart could be a honeypot setup by the Feds or a guy funding ISIS with your fiat. You simply don't know.
to add, wire transfer are many things but certainly not non-kyc
Exactly.
Ya, It’s fun thinking through these things because it always comes back to meatspace being king.
Buying Bitcoin on robosats, then swapping to onchain is probably the least KYC option imo
Cash by mail
This just sets your friends up to correctly file cap gains
Why is adding your KYC info to a centralized honeypot of user data better than finding a few anons and gambling they're not part of some fed crypto dragnet?
Amazon gift cards are ok but not really a solution tbh. The premium has to be quite high to have an offer accepted (10%+ imo has the best chances). As a seller, it’s obviously less attractive option since you are trading BTC for credit that can *only* be used at Amazon and cannot be refunded or transferred. So there is very little sellers willing to accept Amazon GC as payment, and only in smol volume.
Right now cashapp will pay any lightning invoice from the fiat bank connected to it.
I saw a user scan a minibits ln invoice from cashapp and pay from their bank fiat. It paid the invoice with no further questions.
As far as I could see it was considered a LN withdraw in the limits section but not a buy order or purchase of bitcoin.
Square sent the sats to the cashu mint and separately pulled fiat from a bank transfer to square.
this
I don’t really have an issue with what you are describing. Imo it’s still better than providing full KYC data to an exchange and having those coins ‘linked’ to your identity. Usually with Venmo, cashapp, strike, etc, the only information the counterparty received is your @ handle.
Even if you happen to transact with a drug dealer, surely you have a right to buy a pizza or pay back a friend (or whatever plausible reason you could have) regardless of what they do outside of that specific transaction.
👆
Personally I use Zelle fairly regularly and don’t see much issue with that provided txs are <$600. The counterparty only sees a name but not your full identity
Yes they "could" be, but with KYC they are for sure. Robosats is better than full KYC
Pay with Venmo funded using strike bill-pay?
but how do you suggest getting the usd to the robosats counterparty without establishing an identifable monetary link with an unknown person?
computers are all dangerous. meatspace increasingly so, too.
palantir/flock can probably see that you drove to a novel location and met up with someone else who drove to a novel (for them) location and then correlate that with other revealing but tangential activity on both of your parts...
brb going to live in the woods
Flock is a quiet plague.
Oh Im retarded
They use strike and also have Liquid Usdt.
Earn the sats.
Don't buy them.
Good point. Perhaps the most efficient way is to buy L-USDT directly with a bank account, then swap it to L-BTC and swap again to onchain. You could also try swapping L-USDT directly to onchain with robosats.
You gotta do the meme…
If you are paying them fiat you just document it for a service. The coin and the fiat are seperated. Send to them through strike and receive btc through another wallet or ln node.
Writing “not for bitcoin” in your personal notes doesn’t fix anything.
Ok
you can use something like strike to take your cash balance and send to the btc address to buy mining power...and the rewards will be KYC-free and don't pose the other risks of exposing your personal info to a buyer.
to a seller*
absolutely not
I totally misread the OP is asking about robosats
You can try a Bitcoin no KYC ATM.
✅
Does this exist? I thought all ATM were KYCd or with cameras around them. Correct me if I am wrong. I want to learn...
They exist in Latin American and Asian countries because clear regulations in those places don’t necessarily exist yet.
I never had a problem at 5% premium. I usually do 3-5% 🤷♂
Thanks for saying. Didn't know that!
How does someone provide evidence that you are sending it for btc? You send the fiat to another user but it isnt tied to a btc transaction.. it just looks like a single cash transaction.
I will 2nd the CashApp suggestion. Yes, you would have the same KYC exposure as Venmo or Zelle; but, from CashApp's perspective, you aren't necessarily ever possessing any BTC yourself. CashApp just debits your fiat account and pays some anon lightning invoice on your behalf (with no fees nor spread).
tangential, but: what if that recipient is on the OFAC list? or otherwise a target of investigation.
it doesn't matter "what it's for", you have a KYC'd digital link of funding them.
how do you buy non-kyc monero?
You only send fiat to people with a strike account. They've been kycd by strike so I dont think its an issue.
Start renting hash instead.
One option is to buy monero KYC, then swap for bitcoin (watch out for time and amount correlation). Then "lose" the keys to your monero wallet. Nobody can prove those funds have moved or not.
Has anyone tried ro buy at Azte.co? I have tried on there suggested retailers like Kinguin, but they always block me... (probably beacause I am behind a VPN
Same thing...
@npub1m0st...40un also bisq
Kycnot.me
A puzzle for
@GHOST (who is more than worth his cyber security salt).
View quoted note →Yeah...
I got hacked.
Someone took my BTC and sent it to a swap for monero and i lost all my BTC.
I have a strong suspicion that monero was then turned into BTC that is not linked to me and deposited somewhere else.
Next time I'll keep my seed phrase safe.
There's literally one more step though.
Until my employer offers the option to pay me in BTC, it is a required step.
A friend of mine works for BTC at some company that he's the CTO of and gets paid in Bitcoin, you should talk to him. 😉
I got something in the works with a CEO company you have definitely heard of. Don't wanna speak too soon though.
What about a BTC ATM?
Mining bitcoin can be an easy way to get non-kyc sats. You can host with someone like us, and the only person you have to trust is us.
Bisq has Cash in mail. 10K+ purchase for the year. Buy yearly amount in one go. Don’t know how well it works but that’s a way to not be verified
Depends. Some have no KYC below a certain limit. Some simply require phone number/email verification (could use a burner for either)
Click one and click "view details" and scroll all the way down to "limits and verifications" to see:
https://coinatmradar.com/that's basically just left shifting the problem
I thought you were actually asking but yes there would be no difference from the fiat side of things
thisistheway.gif
This is a good idea - better than sending cash in the post imho.
(In store with cash preferably)
Also finding someone you can trust. You can send them fiat eg by Strike or Cashapp and they send you the sats directly with an agreed % markup. Could arrange a regular two way trade as well if you both want KYC free sats eg. both agree to spot buy $500 dollars of sats on 5th of each month and transfer to each others lightning addresses. When enough buys accumulated could swap to Monero or liquid and back again, although you will be eating fees and might be viewed as a disposal.
Yes, but the OP is asking how you buy sats from someone on robosats without connecting your true identity to a direct transaction with the other party. Since you dont know who you are transacting with, it could be a fed, which is a problem. Liquid transactions may be the only way to do it because they are untraceable, so I think L-USDT is not linkable back to you, though I'm not sure L-USDT is as secret as L-BTC.
An option could be to do a lightning<->onchain swap with robosats because technically the lightning transaction is opaque. However you would need to assume the originating lightning node isn't connected directly to robosats (it could be) and robosats doesn't share its transaction info (theft or a gun can break a lot of promises), so I don't know there is any guaranteed way to keep your KYC'd funds' origin secret from the other robosats party.
What I think is curious about robosats is they don't have a Walmart gift card option. You can pay cash at a Walmart for giftcards, then sell them on robosats for Bitcoin. But, why doesn't to robosats suggest something like this? They have an Amazon giftcard, but that is tracablr through credit card transactions and amazon databases.
how?
Be useful to people who have bitcoin.
Been trying to get my clients to pay me in bitcoin, one day one of you retards will walk into my office and we’ll make it work. I’m all set up for it.
What 'ya selling?
Charge an extra fee whenever they pay you in fiat.
Much stronger narrative than giving a discount if they pay in bitcoin.
Start with 10% or so, and steadily increase until your at a 300% fee premium.
That’s not something that works in the business of law.
Why?
I don’t really feel like getting into it—it’s something I’ve explored— but trust me I’m always looking for ways to motivate clients to pay me in bitcoin.
it's easier to double spend a Walmart giftcard. from the bisq docs when you pay with an Amazon gift card I'm pretty sure you need to create the card as earmarked for your counterparty, so you can't just spend it before they do. with the Walmart gift card that's not possible. the system needs to be limited to payment methods which are hard to double spend or claw back. that pretty much leaves cash in mail as the best option besides zelle. I have seen other platforms let you sell double spend vulnerable gift cards but you get less for them.
Then you enter the Walmart gift card into your Walmart account, the card is part of your account. I don't know if you can double spend across two accounts once it's entered. That is an interesting question
There is no need to earmark the Amazon gift card with robosats, I've never done that
there's also the issue with providing what happened to an arbitrator. it's easier to prove you sent an amazon card earmarked to the other person's email address. even with cash in mail with some difficulty you can show evidence you sent something to the address you were supposed to send it to and they need to open it on camera to prove wrongdoing. it needs to be easy to verify the payment.
Then we need Walmart to create ZK-giftcard credits
Could you offer a free hour of consulting or something extra "free" as bonus for those who choose the Bitcoin path?
Hi, thanks a lot for your explanation! I will take a look now.
Or cashu ecash that is digital gift cards
