Replies (104)
I know this is rhetorical... but its convenience and comfort imo. People generally only panic and look for alternatives when its too late. And it will never be too late, they will keep the carrot of convenience dangling just close enough for most people to never give a shit.
I'm part of the issue, I have a pixel but have the default os, I did try Graphene on a Pixel once but hated it.
Why did you hate? It's pretty much just a blank canvas
It was pretty glitchy, I don't know if that's the normal issues or just my experience, many limitations too.
Hate it? It's the same OS but without the garbage
Was really buggy, maybe I screwed the install up or something I don't know.
I'm curious about this. Can't be further away from my experience
Zero glitches or limitations
the main problem is needing to buy a google phone, if you could install it on any other cheap android like option many more people would give it a try
Same I've had zero gltches on graphene
Also the graphene devs have been under constant harassment
people are retarded. People don't demand anything, they want what others say it's nice, privacy does not sell, people want phones with good specs, top camera, nice design, you give them a good phone and then stick GOS and maybe some exclusive apps or SW makeup and that's it. even if they use gapps but sandboxed it's already a good step. But even forgetting the normies, Jack could take this seriously, don't see anyone else caring about something like this.
1. We need more hardware options for it, totally agree
2. How much is the difference in price?
I'd rather sell my fucking kidney before running that stock OS plagued with spyware
I'd recommend giving it another try at some point and if you have time to tinker. I'm 2 years in and although there was a learning curve -- as someone coming from 100% iPhone/Apple ecosystem maxi (peak convenience) -- I absolutely love it now.
Things that I think might trip some people up is stuff like
- Lack of Google Wallet support
- Some Banking apps do not work
- Android Auto is now supported but I have found unreliable so avoid it
- If you use apps eg. Uber you'll need to enable Google Location services (or whatever its called)..
Generally though, I've been able to settle on workarounds for all of these issues.
For a while I tried not to use Google Play Services, but settled on installing it so I could still use some normie apps. Its sandboxed anyway (unlike factory Android) so I feel like I've found a balance of control/privacy/convenience.
I did not tag Jack because he's been excellent so far in all he's done for freedom tech.
However, maybe he could persuade some other billionaire friends?
Its kind of sad to see to many people here who "get it" but don't have the balls to move over.
Interesting 🤔
Can install play services in the Private Space, and use normie apps right there
That's what I love about Graphene actually, you can kind of adjust your risk profile as you see fit.
It really feels like I own the device and I choose how things are setup.
I run graphene. Its awesome. But I can't convince any family or friends to use it. They don't see the point for the hassle, and think that the reasons are conspiracy theories. Unfortunately most people just dont see or care about the risks
Ditto
Franphone with GrapheneOS
I don't see why you couldn't use a regular phone line with Graphene
Let me see if I find a few billion in my back pocket and i'll make it happen
I empathize more with normies than with bitcoiners that won't install Graphene because "my banking app won't work"
Such a lame proof of stake excuse
Because Graphene will never be widespread as u can’t just pick that up at TMobile
Why not?
Everybody knows phones spy on them.
If well marketed, a phone like that can be placed and it can sell
We need one billionaire that wants to make it work
But except Jack they are all a bunch of pussies so not keeping my hopes up
There is no money in privacy. Trust me I know.
What laptop and OS for the laptop would you recommend?
"How come so few people are buying Pixels and installing it?"
i can only speak for myself, but it's pricey and risky at the same time. you buy a new phone you can either unlock the bootloader or not, you either fuck up your brand new phone or not, but you definitely lose the warranty.
Our mission is to unchain graphene OS.
You dont need to be a techie to get one and start enjoying privacy.
@Uno i might help you for a certain amount of sats.
1.- Just choose a pixel model of your convenience.
2.- Just select a destination you would like to have your unit delivered.
3.- I would send a proposal you might accept or refuse.
I heard two people at work laughing at a guy for not carrying a smart phone and using cash because he doesn't want to be tracked. That's probably why. And they even admitted that he was right. They still made fun of him. Most people probably just don't care.
Interestingly, my banking app works fine. No Google services either. Granted, that could change. And I barely keep funds in it anymore anyway. Besides, you can use a browser minus check deposit.
Many banks are not allowing you to do that these days, though, claiming "security vulnerabilities" in browsers.🙄
Never seen that before. They actually may be right, but it's all archaic anyway. Funny enough I saw a notification email saying some fiat was withdrawn from my account. I had half a moment of panic before chuckling. I'm almost 100% in self-custody Bitcoin. I'm good. Turned out it was a large withdrawal for a Bitcoin conversion I made the other day. 😂 It was a beautiful moment.
Sure, but I trust a more hardened, locked down browser than most banking apps that want too many permissions just to exist. 😑
That’s been my experience
Im the “weird” guy for using cash and other simple privacy preserving routines
I think the time will come but it’s early
The luxury of not living in a place like China or North Korea is lost on many. But they'll learn soon enough. Hopefully it won't be too late.
Sure, but almost none of their users are like us. I get you, but it's all moot now anyway. They're so legacy
There are plenty of normies out there, me included, who are interested in what is possible and concerned about the power of corporates and government. But we aren't techies. We don't have the technical skills and confidence to start doing things like wiping the OS off my brand new Pixel phone. Many consider just moving off the Apple ecosystem to be a big step.
Many of us would take the steps to take personal security and privacy if we had the support necessary. Obviously we can't go and ask Google how to jailbreak their phone, and no one really knows who to trust on the internet. That's why NOSTR is actually such as cool thing, because we can start to find people that are trusted by our network. So don't be too high time preference. They normies will come, and the knowledgeable will continue to make being sovereign, private, and secure easier.
I look forward to when trusted contacts can recommended dedicated AI Chat bots which can personally walk people through things like setting up a BTC node, a LN wallet, an independent phone OS, etc. People want to be doing these things. They just need a guide.
It's pretty straightforward, it has a web installer. There are a ton of guides out there, a ton of people that are happy to help you, and a ton of possibilities to sell the device if you didn't figure out
I only speak for myself – I'd rather go through that pain than have a certified spyware device in my pocket
Partially agree. It's not the easiest thing but it's not hard. The installer is web-based, you install from your browser. Their website is very clear, and if you still need help you could start asking nostr for Youtube channel recommendations. Plenty of reputable tutorials out there. Or you could ask any AI how to do it.
Can’t you just dual boot? I remember using MultiRom on my Nexus (before I became an Apple fag), could boot into the glorious SailfishOS, Ubuntu Phone and Android whenever I wanted.
We‘re currently facing the consequences of digital domestication and convenience traps.
yeah android sucks.. i rather use iphones...
is not just the price is the availability... most countries dont have access to a google phone primary, much less secondary market...
when i mean cheap i mean sub $300 phones...
That's actually one of the issues. There are plenty of resources out there, and it's not actually that hard to find. But when people are unsure, they don't know who to trust and who's recommendations to follow.
But people will trust people they have some sort of relationship with, even if it's very thin. Friend of friend stuff. So when someone you follow recommendeds something it has a lot more weight that Google's search results.
I don't get this. How do people do with cars? You don't buy one because you don't know any mechanics?
Just use the people you trust in nostr and ask them
Obviously not the entire world, but a LOT more people who do understand what's at stake could stop being lazy and actually do it
Many hurdles to using alternative OSs, not limited to just GrapheneOS.
One of the major ones are push notifications. Most apps are developed expecting Google APIs to be available on device. If they aren't, those apps do not work properly (sometimes even crashing). That in turn severely impacts the UX of an alternative OS.
That problem alone is a big one, and not easily solvable. The startup costs to reimplement such infrastructure and then maintain those APIs as an alternative OS is tremendous. Some workarounds do exist (such as microG, or GrapheneOS's sandboxed Play Store app), but it still takes a lot of development bandwidth.
Until there is a solid alternative to Google push notifications, app developers must roll their own custom in-app solutions (See Signal, or Tutanota). Not only does that NOT scale well, but most developers won't take that task on for a small subset of users of their product/service; and who would blame them?
And when I say "solid alternative to Google push notifications", I mean a super simple UX for users; extremely low bar, as in "Hey user of my app XZY, if you would like to receive push notifications for our app, install this other app here that handles it on-device which we can hook into." Requiring users to run some backend server at home kills any adoption of an alternative because 99.5% of people cannot, or will not, do that.
Since you aren't using a smartphone at the moment - get yourself a secondhand Pixel 7a which will be a lot cheaper than the latest and greatest. Flashing
@GrapheneOS is super simple by following the instructions on their website. Download Zapstore and you will be off to the races. If you need them, you can install Google Services from Graphene that you may need for certain wallets to function. You can do clever things with Grapheme by having separate user profiles for Google dependent services on one profile and degoogled on another. As a beginner wallet, Wallet of Satoshi is brilliant. It runs in a degoogled profile but I think it is still custodial, so don't keep too much on it. The Graphene forums will give you loads of info about great open source non or minimal tracking apps you may also want to use. Good luck and go for it! 💪💪
Good question. May 2028 according to the site (table near bottom)
Frequently Asked Questions | GrapheneOS
To answer your last question, I'm guessing it will still work post that date but you won't get security updates, so there's a risk running it depending on how you use it as with any phone post support. 👍
@franzap We're working with a major OEM towards some of their future devices meeting our requirements and providing official GrapheneOS support. Our requirements are listed at
Frequently Asked Questions | GrapheneOS
We don't know when it will be available, but we're optimistic that it's going to work out. This should end up providing a couple more device models as options each year. We'd still continue adding support for new Pixels if possible.
still, it would help tons, if i could return the phone in case installing Graphene fails or it bricks the phone and if it didn't void the hw warranty.
this is just fucked up. who would ever buy a PC with these conditions?
💯 - it *looks* that way but it isn't - and
@GrapheneOS's forums are all really helpful with any questions you have. For your use case, you'll breeze it.💪
It was Apple Photos that had me give up and come back tbh. (Former graphite here) Risk gradient tradeoffs and I am currently comfortable.
I’ll gladly look a fool here to ask this: has a compelling photo self storage with no hassle solution come out yet?
I see immich is a thing but I’m still burned from the last self-hosted picture thing I tried in 2021, curious if others have thoughts or advocacy. I take a lot of pictures of my family
I don't take too many pictures but heard
@Shawn talk wonders about Immich
Can confirm. It's great.
i would love to try it but i don't want to buy a google phone...
Something just doesn't make sense about de-Googling your life by buying a google phone. Even with GrapheneOS. Thankfully there are also lineage and e/os
hey -- we want to send you a test zap, but couldn’t find a NIP-05 or ⚡ lightning address on your profile. u can set one up for free on rizful
Rizful: Lightning Services
Free Lightning vaults, and instant, disposable Lightning Nodes.
... then pls reply here and we will do a test zap.
The only way to truly degoogle is to use an iPhone
Because driving a car is not a transferable analogy. For the last 70 years we've lived in a society where everyone has a car and knows how to drive. Get your license is a right of passage for most teenagers.
Unlike driving, there is not an abundance of people around that normies trust to teach them how to install an alternative OS for their phone, especially when the cost of getting it wrong is to brick the thing.
Gm buddy 💪
Perhapse, but I don't particularly want to be beholden to apple either. Fairphone looks like a good option but only in europe, unfortunately.
You can run Graphene with zero dependency on Google
No gets rich without stealing data these days…
GrapheneOS is the only secure and private option
Not everyone can afford it. 🤷
A lot more people than you imagine can afford it but have other priorities
It’s better to keep away billionaires from funding such things
GrapheneOS is great but what we really need is some kind of standardisation of mobile hardware in order to make portable OS development feasable.
It was great as long as google allowed it. With Android 16 they have stopped supporting building custom roms and with the Pixel 10 the situation may get even worse. Graphene team are in talks with OEM vendors about creating their own hardware but this isn't guarenteed to go anywhere either.
Let’s say more devices for graphene are released. My mind races to supply chain attacks like Israel pulled with Palestinian pagers. If privacy conscious consumers rush to a select group of devices with such smaller anon set, attacks against this group are easier and more effective, no?
I can't use it on Nothing Phone. 👀
Bring back Palm OS
View quoted note →I carry two phones:
One with GrapheneOS for privacy.
One with a regular OS for convenience.
I also use two forms of money:
Bitcoin for sovereignty.
Fiat for compliance.
It’s not hypocrisy — it’s strategy.
You navigate the world as it is, while building the world as it should be.
- Fear of the unknown and FUD
- Convenience & laziness vs putting in the work
(there's a bit of a learning curve - "I have GrapheneOS, now what?")
- People still believe Apple cares about privacy (lol)
- People still believe stock Android is better than iOS (lol)
Solution: The people who know how to set up Pixels this way, teach others (I do) or help do it for them in a v4v exchange
Bro I get my Pixels on eBay from reputable sellers who make sure the bootloader is unlockable and I never paid more than $200
Since GrapheneOS's update cycle is only reliable for a few years at a time, it makes zero sense to buy the $900 Pixels that are brand new. So I only buy the cheap ones from years ago. Easy peasy. They last me quite a few years. I'm on a 6 Pro, and my home phone which never goes anywhere is a 4a
It sounds weird, but think about it: The only way to reverse-engineer a Google device is with an OS designed FROM Google's standard framework, but with hardened features built in.
PS - Using Lineage is like saying you have secured your house from rain, but your roof is 1/4 full of holes. It's definitely a step toward de-Googling, but it's not any where near secure or private as Graphene OS
- Fear of the unknown and FUD
- Convenience vs putting in the work
(there's a bit of a learning curve - "I have GrapheneOS, now what?")
- People still believe Apple cares about privacy (lol)
- People still believe stock Android is better than iOS (lol)
Solution: The people who know how to set up Pixels this way, teach others (I do) or help do it for them in a v4v exchange
View quoted note →pCloud has the option to backup all photos on your device automatically
Thank you! I'll look into it. I saw one new for €1200 ( ~$1400) and I dropped it.
You can do it
😂 There's only one way to find out.
Yep! So I did a search and since I don't know what country you're in, searched for Pixels at eBay which is where I always go.
You want to make sure go to the sellers pages to see what else they offer. It's a good bet if they have a good rating and just only sell phones & phone accessories (not like, an assortment of crap as it they're cleaning out their attic) and if you find a phone you like, go to the item and click "Message seller" you need to ask them if the bootloader is unlocked - if the listing contains the word, "Unlocked" that is not enough to know, because usually that refers to whether the phone is locked in with a certain wireless carrier, not whether you can flash the ROM. So always ask if it's not clear. The full description (scroll, scroll) may also say "oem unlocked" or "bootloader unlocked". That's about all you need. Then go to Graphene web installer and it will do the rest if you connect your PC to the phone via USB.
Here's an example listing:
Pixel for sale | eBay
Find great deals on eBay for Pixel. Shop with confidence.
You're so cute. I would love this to suceed buy after using it for some time I can tell you that it's not a viable alternative.
Maybe one day it will... then I would be happy to revisit it.
Lebanese pagers, but yes this is totally possible. Afaik GrapheneOS are talking with major OEMs for compatibility so that would reduce the chance of such a targeted attack
GrapheneOS only works on Pixels; a Google product.
The 4a was my favorite. Small and a headphone jack
I use Swappa for the same reason.
Still have to ask the seller about the bootloader before buying
They have good filtering
Anker has these adapters that fit in the usb-c charging port and connect to the 3.5mm male end of your wired earbuds or headphones. I have one and it works great. No sound quality issues, and it stays in pretty well
If you’re truly ‘all in’—as in, no bank account, no fiat job, no interaction with state currency or regulated commerce—then I respect your conviction. But let’s be real: most people, including those throwing around ‘rent-seeker’ insults, still use banks, still pay taxes, and still operate within the system they claim to reject.
What you call ‘convenience,’ I call strategic pragmatism. I didn’t survive the early days of Linux and sound money just to perform ideological purity for clout. I’m here to actually win—and sometimes that means knowing which hills to die on and which bridges to cross quietly.
You want a revolution? Great. Lead by example—not by accusation.
I have only bought pixels, but what do you mean?
You can't flash a ROM without the bootloader being able to be unlocked. That's what I mean. So always check with the seller before buying (whether eBay, Swappa, nostr, in person, etc.)
Oh, got it.
👍
I use those, as well as Obtanium and Zapstore
Hey @Barkskin - good work buddy - welcome to Graphene and gaining some privacy and security back from the big G lol. I have Zapstore, Fdroid, Accrescent and Aurora Store on mine. My advice for a good setup if you can is have a separate user for Google Services and install Google Store apps that need it there (it's on a case by case basis - Aurora will tell you if it must have Google Services) so those apps can do what they want there, then, since we are on Nostr, use
@Zapstore for the open source ones, with F Droid as the occasional backup source for Zapstore installs. I have all my Open Source apps installing through Zapstore but ever so rarely with have one that doesn't want to download and then get it from F Droid. Have a look at privacypack.org for some open source suggestions and ofc here and the Grapheme forums 💪
GM and No worries Barkskin 💪
Well, I can't say I'm convinced, but I did buy a pixel and and am personalizing my graphene install. Lots of really cool features, and a really seemless install; though, I really hate google and this google phone makes me feel really dirty.
When it's time to upgrade, use ebay or Swappa and get a secondhand phone from a reputable seller (the best ones only deal in phones) so you don't have to give your money to Google. That's probably what made you feel bad.
