Replies (116)
Note: Even though the company is taking their support private, the community can and should still support it independently through open protocols and applications
Start9
Today Start9 Support begins migrating away from Telegram and onto a private, self-hosted Matrix. We will cease providing support on Telegram on November 30.
In order to gain access to this community, you will need the Redemption Code included with your server purchase, usually a sticker on the underside of the device. If you do not have a redemption code, for example DIY users, you can purchase one for $100 from our store. This code gets you lifetime membership to the server.
- YOUR REDEMPTION CODE CAN ONLY BE USED ONCE
- DO NOT SHARE IT WITH ANYONE
- IF SOMEONE ASKS YOU FOR YOUR CODE, THEY ARE A SCAMMER
To join the new community, go to
Start9 Me - Private Support Server
Lifetime membership and access to Start9
You think $100 is expensive for receiving private 1-1 support from technical experts for life...Yeesh. Have you tried hiring a lawyer for an hour?
Just a Start9 user here, but the support the provide is top notch. They have helped me and my buddies lots over the past 3 years - great way to support a top notch company IMHO
Great idea that will support the continued success of Start 9.
$100 to buy a code...
This *might* be where I start to migrate away from start9.
There already exists a group on Matrix. Will you close that one too?
have the code on my hardware but not implemented/ just the way U r doing this is making me hesitate for sum reason & it's not the $100.00 idk.....further reflection needed
Doesn't matter. Lawyers' services are a completely different product and it has no bearing whatsoever on a choice to use start9's product. You've created an incentive for yourself to reduce the quality of your guides, which I'll say are top notch, but I have to doubt they will be going forward. And you could have chosen nostr for support, or anything. There are options.
Just be sure the latest version of startos is freely available before you go out of business. No need to waste your efforts.
Always watch for these little red flags. Moving away from telegram us reasonable, but charging money for customer support is a sign of weakness. I predict the end of Start9... there's always these little signs when a company is starting to die.
So... I guess I'm looking for an alternative. Any suggestions?
Start9
Today Start9 Support begins migrating away from Telegram and onto a private, self-hosted Matrix. We will cease providing support on Telegram on November 30.
In order to gain access to this community, you will need the Redemption Code included with your server purchase, usually a sticker on the underside of the device. If you do not have a redemption code, for example DIY users, you can purchase one for $100 from our store. This code gets you lifetime membership to the server.
- YOUR REDEMPTION CODE CAN ONLY BE USED ONCE
- DO NOT SHARE IT WITH ANYONE
- IF SOMEONE ASKS YOU FOR YOUR CODE, THEY ARE A SCAMMER
To join the new community, go to
Start9 Me - Private Support Server
Lifetime membership and access to Start9
A $100 code to make it so you don't need to support your DIY users. You are going to have alot of the user base mad and probably will mive away from your os.
Spoken like a true commie
Do you also yell at miners for not including your txns on the next block for free?
V4V is the right thing to do.
Ironic. You know next to nothing about me, but assume something about my worldview. In my experience, communists make the grandest assumptions. Don't bother replying - you're blocked.
I get that, I'd take the "no one leaves" side of that bet. The IBD alone is roadblock enough for a server you actually use.
Brace yourself. Here come the communists.
Wait, anyone who isn’t a Start9 CUSTOMER and hasn’t PAID Start9 because they used hardware purchased elsewhere and downloaded StartOS for FREE and benefitted even though they didn’t contribute their time or money to the StartOS development, they need to PAY for the time of a Start9 tech support employee to provide personalized support?
Shouldn’t the Start9 employee be forced to solve the problems of any DIY StartOS user? I mean, the tech support employee has the ability to help and the DIYer has the need. Uncle Karl wouldn’t approve of this… 🙄
@npub126nt...e9ll, you’re awesome (⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️). Keep up the good work.
So people think that they should get infinite free support from paid employees that crowds out people who actually bought the product when they made a custom device and downloaded a free, open source, secure, custom OS that took years to build and get working properly and they think they are entitled to someone else's time and assistance because... why exactly?
@npub126nt...e9ll you guys should change it to $100 a year honestly. You really want to keep the communists out of the group. Just sayin.
Guy makes a great point. Consider raising the price. Perhaps offer first year of support for free to people who bought hardware from Start9 and then give them a discounted rate for year two and beyond. Even if you don’t change the support membership to an annual subscription, consider pricing the lifetime membership in sats, so you at least can keep up with inflation. It wouldn’t be unreasonable if you priced it at and kept it at 15,000 sats for a lifetime membership.
You don't have to buy anything though, it's not obligatory to buy paid support if you're running the OS. It's rare for anyone to buy any other OS support, most people don't need it.
Well, I said "might" for a reason
Most of what you're saying is wrong.
1) Most open source projects are supported by communities of volunteers. As is StartOS, for free, in community support channels which you can still use. And where you should be volunteering if you feel strongly about this.
2) Tech support for customers of Start9 is still free, as it was before, included with the purchase of a product.
3) There was never free support to DIY users, just volunteer support, which still exists.
4) Start9 can't sell an OS license because StartOS is free and open source and isn't owned by Start9, but by everyone.
5) There's "no one time use SOL" situation... If someone loses their redemption code, they can just email and ask for a new one.
You sound frightened and confused by falsehoods that you're inventing in your own head that have no bearing on reality.
There's endless free support from hundreds of helpful bitcoiners on Nostr and social, but I don't expect Start9 to fund it for no reason.
We can just go to BTCSessions youtube channel or search the web or peruse the github or stackoverflow or whatever. There is literally no shortage of places where we can all get tons of help with these devices and the open source community around it. I am also happy to help, but I'm not *obligated* to do so, and I certainly don't think Start9 is after they built an awesome OS and made it open source and available when they pay a lot of money to their employees and have very precious and limited time to devote to it.
And sorry, don't give me the "$25 would've been fine" because people would've complained about that too. The simple fact is no one is obligated to pay a high price for support to help random users who provide nothing to them, and nobody should expect them to.
The only proper response is "thank you" and moving on. They owe nobody anything. LESS so because they already gave us *enormous* value entirely for free despite them probably spending a few hundred thousand building it, maybe more. It being open source is *less* of a reason to demand something from them, not more.
TL;DR
Open source is a COMMUNITY, not someone building something for us for free and then dedicating their life to support also for free, while we all demand more from them. It is US who are obligated to give support to each other if we want it. Start9 owes us nothing.
Fixed
Maybe this one...
No because StartOS doesn't have the networking features in place yet. Sad I know. We'll get there
If you want to keep out scammers, you gotta put up a wall. No other way.
We build free software. This is just for constant and lifetime access to humans who are paid to help. It's also the ONLY way to prevent scammers
This is totally optional, just if you want lifetime access to on-demand support from technical experts in a safe place with no scammers. Some people see huge value in that.
No, that is stricly a developer space now for people hacking on StartOS and services.
It just doesn't *feel* right. We're trying to protect our community and cusomters from scammers who are abusing them on Telegram.
☝️
This is a completely different product from StartOS.
StartOS is free software.
Hardware costs money. Humans cost money.
We've been doing support for free for 5 years and are only now making the swtich to paywall because scammers are getting out of control. The ONLY way to prevent scammers is to control the server and charge for access. There is NO other way.
Is the redemption code the same as the product key? That’s all I see on the side of my Start9
Okay that does make sense. I also want to say,
I've never needed to ask you guys for help because your online guides are so good. Please don't axe the guides...
We're not deletin the Telegram group. We will just not be staffing it, and it will continue to be full of scammers.
This is totally optional, just if you want lifetime access to on-demand support from technical experts in a safe place with no scammers. Some people see huge value in that. $100 is unbelievably cheap.
It's shocking actually.
Start9 will always make free software. This is for on-demand access to technical experts in a scammer-free space. Some people see huge value in that.
Well that’s what they have been doing for a while now. And of course it’s up to them to do what they think is right and necessary for the project. I’m not giving you the $ 25 would have been fine, I just am of the opinion maybe a limited duration but lower price point option would actually create more revenue. I really hope it will turn out to be the right decision. I do not agree with the “random users who provide nothing to them”. I think Start9 got a lot of very useful feedback from a lot of those random users, i.e. the community aspect you are talking about.
You just rised the entry level for scammer to $100 by that.
This is mostly about defeating scammers and creating a safe space for our community and customers.
The $100 won't move the needle at all. This is mostly about fighting spam and scammers and creating a space space for our commnity. The ONLY way to deter scammers is to control the server and charge for acess.
We always had a saying back in my London house sharing days of “no rent, no opinion”
If people can't DIY without expert help, we've failed. Also, anybody on Earth can help for free. This is optional
Right? It's a little shocking. And we're mostly doing this to fight spam and scammers, which can only be done by controlling the server and charging for access.
We try to be generous, seriously.
Yes
Guides will ALWAYS be awesome and free. In fact, all new and improved docs are being released alongside v0.3.6
They will never pay it, because rhe first time they try to scam, they will be removed from the server forever and have to pay another $100 to get back in.
To defeat spam and scammers, you must BOTH control the server AND charge for access. Problem solved.
*150,000 sats… 🤦♂️ Sometimes math is hard, and other times I’m just an idiot.
Excellent thanks!
Linux does it fine. Unless your looking to turn a profit or need to grow idk.
Redhat is the worst. Why debian and others are used in the consumer market. RedReddit will always be workstation or server imo.
I am concerned with them saying it's for scammers and charging 100 to join there matrix....
I think this is reasonable. I also have no idea where I put that card😅
Never said you failed i am stating someone wanting to try your product before buying may be shafted if there is no help in that regard. Idk why everyone is so heated. This is nostr we are supposed to be free to discuss and build what we want. Ofc community support is why I'd be worried if they are all behind your matrix instead of being on a open forum or etc...
I get an error. It says redemption code not found
Not only way thr easiest for you. Many other companies seem to do fine with email support and help tickets....
Nice
Why not just join the Telegram and use that instead? Only the paying customers are moving away, anyone else is welcome to stay and build out the community support. You're welcome to volunteer your time too!
It should be on the bottom of the device too. You can also shoot me a DM with your order number, and I'll get you a new one
There will be plenty of resources for DIY users to get help. We have our docs, we have
Start9 Community
Start9 Community
which is always free, and there will be other free DIY people helping DIY people channels as well I'm sure
Shoot me a DM please, I'll get you sorted
We greatly prefer the group approach, much more scalable and also creates community.
Just a question on this why is your help desk also need to be the way you build your community too? Wouldn't it make more sense to separate them so can foster a community with both DIY and hardware owners? Then just leave the paid employees for hardware support?
I'd pay $100 for access to the community forums, nevermind the premium service. The people there have helped me out of a jam a couple of times.
You guys are awesome. People don't have the *right* to another person's labor. You pay people to help, the recipient of that help should rightfully pay. Thank you for the software.
-A DIY Start9 user
Open sourcing software = Freedomtech 🤙
Open sourcing someone else’s time = Communism 👎
a bidet that increases the temperature according to the price of bitcoin 🧡
Well clearly if people are moving won't telegram just be left with scammers and some community members? I also have help people with start9 os already.
So anyone can join this server, not just hardware buyers. For anyone who doesn't see the value or can't justfiy the expense, we have commnuity.start9.com, which will always be free, and I'm sure other community run channels will pop up as well. But we need the paid server to keep out the scammers. Also, people deserve to get paid for their time and effort. The people who staff our channel have families to feed like everyone else, they don't work for free, and shouldn't. $100 for a lifetime membership to expert technical support is the deal of the decade.
Thank you. And TBH the $100 doesn't move the needle much, since we are doing it for free for anyone who has purchased or will purchase a server. It's mostly to keep the scammers out. Pay to play is the only way.
Oh yeah. I totally forgot about that. Thanks!
Anything for folks who purchased the OS back when you charged for it?
i'm ignorant in that area but i will follow thru & good on U if i can confirm. it's just me being diligent in this fast moving space & numerous pitfalls. i have seen so many i have learned to take nothing @ face value. i like your style so far so there is that. t-y for responding.
Start9 has been the best experience I’ve had in self hosting. Yea. I know I sound like a bot, but it’s true!
Okay I feel i agree now with your decision as long as the forum stays open for use I'm happy as they are amazing. I am not against you paying your team well but I have to as a customer voice my concerns. I know you are a hardware company first that developed amazing ecosystem that can also be used elsewhere for free. I just hope you can see both sides of why some people are concerned vs others will support you without question. Thanks agian for being an amazing company!
Also just please make a announcement in your website so people also know. I know your verified here but will be more official to see imo.
It is true
Yup $100 USD in different parts of the world have different purchasing power.
But I'm relaxed now since I read the comments. We're good 👍🏽
There must be some trusted group members who are willing to fight against scammers, and still provide valuable Telegram group.
Actually, Zaps ⚡ would be ideal
Amazing,
@npub126nt...e9ll
But the feature I’m most looking forward to is clearnet connections for lightning nodes, that will be possible in StartOS v0.3.6⚡️
Imagine the Start9 forum had zaps ⚡ and we zap and zap valuable posts but then one day you get a DM saying...
*Thank you for your long time support. Your total amount of Zaps ⚡ grants you the right to join our premium community click this link to join*
Start9 Community
Start9 Community
Nostr solves this 😄
@npub126nt...e9ll
I might misunderstood the communicate. I’m DIY user and I am not seeking premium support. All I need is access to community forum as it was on Telegram. I agree with Telegram flaws but do I understand it correctly that this new Matrix chat will be the only #start9 forum and Telegram chat completely gone? In other words will payed option replace free option fully?
Are DYI users left alone?
Bought the support with bitcoin (rewards from venmo credit card), even though I probably won't use it. Been a solid product and wanted to support y'all, can't believe there are folks bitching in the chat about it when this is how most Linux support works.
I concur.
@npub126nt...e9ll is the best. $100 for lifetime support seems way too low.
I went the DIY route and I would gladly pay 100 usd to have this access. that's because your product is solid and easy to use.
That "product key" is a valid redemption code :)
Yes, 0.3.6 makes that possible with a little configuration. 0.4.0 will make it even easier.
Wow! Thanks! I was hoping for maybe a discount. Very gracious, and much appreciated!
its great that you can monetize a fantastic service and deal with scammers at the same time. $100 is a fair price for first world nations but it may cause DIY users in poorer countries from getting quality support that keep them running their node when facing a tech issue.
Its a difficult line to draw and you had to draw it somewhere.
Ok. This makes sense. Thank you.
Understood, we're not going to abandon DIY users. The $100 support server is for on-demand premium support from paid experts
We are not going to abandon DIY users in poor countries. We will do what we can, as can anyone else in the world. We have no ownership or claim over the software we build. None whatsoever.
I'm not familiar with it personally, but looks cool.
If the Tunnel Sats team or somone else from the community packages it for StartOS, then yes, it will be available 😃
We're available to help if anyone wants to take it on, should be pretty straightforward for StartOS 0.3.6 based on the looks of it.
I wish you had opted for SimpleX instead of Matrix. But anayway, I would like to purchase the support option for DIY users, but I get no pay with bitcoin option at checkout.
Got it. Had to change to the Bitcoin store
@Sondre | satoshiconsult.com I might take you up on that. Have you considered making an offer on satshoot? I'm sure
@Five will be happy to provide support around this freelance nostr client 😀
https://satshoot.com/
I might be missing some context. What is it exactly you need support with?
BTW this thread is a good example why I am betting on nostr-based web of trust reputation building.
While it takes more effort to bootstrap connections, it will definitely be a much more natural way of asking for help. More eyes and reach, more economic activity conducted by more trustworthy individuals than anywhere else online.
Companies will build their own reputation so impersonation and scam group shenanigans become very hard to pull off.
I don't think there are any questions at the moment. I just wanted to shill satshoot and I linked your npub, because I couldn't find an npub specific to satshoot...
Thanks for the shill! ;)
Yeah there is one dedicated npub but I don't usually post from it
@SatShootHey, Just tried this with my product code and got this. Any suggestions?
Perhaps we don't have it on file. Shoot me a DM, I'll get you sorted
Thanks, in the interim OPKIN and Mike got me set via your telegram support, so I'm good to go!
Just bought a
@npub126nt...e9ll redemption code – support their product and get a lifetime membership with access to their team. It's a no-brainer, especially if you are running StartOS on your own hardware.
Start9
Today Start9 Support begins migrating away from Telegram and onto a private, self-hosted Matrix. We will cease providing support on Telegram on November 30.
In order to gain access to this community, you will need the Redemption Code included with your server purchase, usually a sticker on the underside of the device. If you do not have a redemption code, for example DIY users, you can purchase one for $100 from our store. This code gets you lifetime membership to the server.
- YOUR REDEMPTION CODE CAN ONLY BE USED ONCE
- DO NOT SHARE IT WITH ANYONE
- IF SOMEONE ASKS YOU FOR YOUR CODE, THEY ARE A SCAMMER
To join the new community, go to
Start9 Me - Private Support Server
Lifetime membership and access to Start9
Looks like product keys from the original OS purchased don’t work :-/
IMHO the problem's name here is "community package".
I don't know how restrictive these Start9 packages have to be and how far they can reach into the Start9 system architecture. TunnelSats requires deep integration into the system layer (wireguard installation, network container implementation, port re-routing w/ nftables, ...). So basically afaik I think we cannot make use of a setup script to install TunnelSats from console but rather ship a s9pk wrapped TS package.
If they don't it's because we lost it. Please shoot me a DM with your product key and original order number, and I'll get you squared away.
Testnet will be enabled after StartOS 0.3.6. Packaging services will also be MUCH easier then. 0.3.6 is already in testing, and services are already being packaged for it. If you hop into our Matrix developer community, we will make sure you get all the help you want from our team.
You're invited to talk on Matrix
You're invited to talk on Matrix
StartOS 0.3.6 exposes all the OS access/features you need. But it certainly needs to be packaged into an s9pk using our guide and SDK
It’s all sorted thanks, Matt rectified it for me yesterday
:-)
