You don't create a note just because you may zapped for it, you get zapped for it because others found it valuable. It's kind of a reverse feedback loop.

Thanks for the response, but I'm still not sure I understand. If zaps aren't supposed to matter then I guess it's not a big deal, but if it's kind of a feedback loop then doesn't that mean that the zaps are incentivizing people to make posts that they otherwise wouldn't have? Isn't the whole point of zapping someone's post to create some kind of meaningful effect?

Well two things: First, all or much of social media is effectively monetized today. Creators actually make a living off of it. So there's money being exchanged by someone... Why shouldn't it be a simple transaction between the person creating the content, and the person receiving it? Why do "platforms" have to get involved? And 2nd, on "incentivization"; people have all kinds of motivations for doing things that are monetary or non-monetary in nature. Let's say we take out zaps and just have likes. "Why would I need (positive reinforcement in terms of a like) to post my thoughts?" People like getting validation, whether that's a like or a zap, and that doesn't invalidate their reasons for posting stuff on social media.

The way I think about it is pretty simple. When I like something I read/watch, I zap it So the zap replaces the like (for me)

#asknostr View quoted note →

There will be zap farmers here, the same way reddit has karma farming

not mandatory

you don't need to do any of these things. you don't need to make posts for the sake of zaps and you don't have to read posts of people who are posting simply because they want to get zapped. it's obvious when someone makes content solely for the purpose of getting zapped. it comes off disingenuous and yeah, I don't bother wasting my time with people like that.

Incentivized to improve thinking instead of mindless slop posted for likes and attention

Agreed. My best thoughts get zero zaps anyway.

I totally understand your point most users on twitter, Bluesky, discord, Reddit etc etc aren't in it for monetary gain or incentivised by a tipping system to post. There are other important factors that brings and keeps people there, community, making connections, information sharing/ exchange, 'lolz' etc etc. Yes there is a significant amount growing / attempting to grow their 'brand', and have a review stream (usually via a third party company eg patron, Kofi). This is probably a small percentage, albeit perhaps 'power users' and users who draw in more users for platforms. Zaps is somewhat in it's infancy, perhaps it's been implemented too early and incentivising pandering to the existing crowd -style posting (further cementing a silo-ingnmonotopic environment, but that's another topic lol). Basically what I'm saying is we're just beta testers for a potential tipping system which doesn't entirely make sense at present.

You’re right — you don’t need zaps to post your thoughts. I don’t think many of us post on Nostr because we expect zaps. We do it because we genuinely want to. And you’re also spot on when you say, “Why would I want to read someone’s thoughts if they’re only posting because they’re getting paid?” That’s a key difference between Nostr and centralized platforms. On traditional social media, algorithms push content from people posting because they’re being paid — either directly or through the attention economy. On Nostr, you only see content from people you choose to follow. What makes zapping powerful is the proof-of-work behind it. "Liking" something on centralized platforms is more like a proof-of-stake system — no real energy is transferred, but those with the biggest stake get all the rewards. Zapping is different. When you zap someone on Nostr, you’re literally sending them real digital energy — actual value. It’s a tiny act, but with real weight. I think zapping changes the game. The ability to send monetary value instantly, at virtually no cost, and without asking anyone’s permission — all within a social protocol — is revolutionary. I’m especially excited for when we can require a small fee to call or message someone’s npub. That alone could kill spam. Instead of your attention being monetized by others, people will have to pay you for it. I might be wrong — but I think zapping is a big deal. We just haven’t uncovered all the reasons why yet.

I think you are looking at this with an incorrect assumption that a post being motivated by possible financial return makes it less worthy of your time. But you don't treat anything else in your life this way, do you? When you go to a more expensive restaurant, you expect the food to be higher quality. When you purchase a coffee you expect it to be better than the free coffee they have available for you in the office. Likewise, people will generally produce higher quality content when there is a possibility of making a profit from it. They will be motivated to put their best effort into it, and to be more helpful to other users. This, of course, is highly reliant on your content being seen by others who would value it in the first place. Even so, Nostr users collectively understanding that someone may find their content valuable enough to zap it will make them optimize for providing value, which in turn makes Nostr a more pleasant place to be, since jerks don't tend to get paid.

Idk man I think it’s kinda fun

Well I think zaps are just a very cool bonus, I guess most of us that are here is because we see the value freedom

I'm not a creator and I don't use Nostr to consume content from creators. I use Nostr to talk with people and to have conversations. I am interested in people's beliefs, not their content. Frankly I wouldn't care if "notes and other stuff over relays" became just "notes over relays." In fact, I have already disabled loading and displaying media as best I could on my Amethyst client. And yet despite how narrow my interests are, every note I see has a zap button. Your analogy in your second point is sound, as are your conclusions. If the point of a like or an emoji reaction is just to create positive or negative reinforcement then undermines the conversation. I only ever use these kinds of reactions in order to communicate my thoughts. If you reply to a note then you shouldn't need to like it; your reply should already share your thoughts in far more clarity than a like ever could. I feel just as happy recieving a 💩 or a 🤡 as I do when recieving a ❤. When I was a kid, adults told me it's wrong to fish for compliments. They were right, and the reason why is obvious. A desire to validate or to be validated undermines the authenticity of any interaction. Desiring likes for personal validation is just the wrong way of using social media. Do you have justification for your own beliefs?

I don't understand replacing likes with zaps. Is it worth the personal and developer effort for you to be able to replace likes with zaps?

i think that you're thinking like #fiat world. zap stuff you think I'd valuable. post what you want. if people value it then they will zap you. it's not like a money transaction. is in addition to emotes.

I don't understand likes. Why would I need a social validation to post my thoughts? And why would I want to read a person's thoughts if they are only posting them because they are seeking validation?

Mindless slop is mindless slop; I am confident that whether it's posted for likes or posted for zaps makes no difference to either of us. No matter how much confidence you have in people, the fact is that people disagree with eachother, and there is no objective way for someone who is missing knowledge or perspective to judge the quality of another person's post except through their own knowledge and perspective. When it comes to truly improving one's thinking, all filters and incentives are wrong in the long run. Anything beyond just putting two people together makes things worse. Do you want to challenge my claims with any specific scenarios?

Yes, I believe you have a good understanding of my perspective. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

You're wrong. On Nostr I DON'T only see content from people I follow. I inentionally browse the global feed and I perform searches regularly. In fact, I hate having a follow-based feed. I want a feed that is shaped by the topics I am interested in and by my current interpretation and understanding of those topics. Zapping can't do this. Zapping will never be able to do this.

You can just IGNORE zaps and use Nostr

You are correct. The vast majority of things in one's life are just as worthy of your time (if not more worthy) when the people providing these things are motivated by financial return. And yes, this principle applies to the quality of online content as well. However I do not use Nostr to view that sort of content; I use Nostr to talk with people. I want to try to understand every belief and learn every relevant perspective. These matters of perspective are the exception to the rule. Motivations of possible financial return undermine the authenticity of the conversation and make it less worthy of a person's time. The value of things like conversation and friendship are not things that can be objectively measured by the person receiving them. I believe Nostr should be partially unpleasant. I want to interact with the jerks. If I didn't believe in the importance of treating jerks with respect and fairness then I wouldn't have choosen the username "Scoundrel" to use when presenting and defending my beliefs.

Yes, everyone can ignore zaps while using Nostr. Not everyone does. Should they?

I'm here because Nostr is a low entry platform where third parties can't decide who is able to interact with eachother and how. There are a lot of people on Nostr for reasons that I do not understand.

I’d like it more generally as just something kind you can do for someone.

Because #Primal is a #BTC #cult. #Run!

Value for value. Lifetime for Bitcoin. Exchange if 2 scarcest assets. We don’t need likes to be honest

It's just a way to differentiate the signal from the noise. "Likes" can be provided by bots, "Zaps" cost real money. It's a bit like an anti spam mechanism. And it's fun.

K I won’t zap you fren 🤙

There will never be an objective way to differentiate signal from noise.

Everything has a price. If you started getting 1M sats for every post you made, you'd change your opinion.

“Why would I want to read a person’s thoughts if they are only posting them because they are being paid to” You’re already doing this. They’re called influencers and they’re everywhere. Zaps just change the money flow from: advertisers -> X -> Influencer To: Me -> You Difference? I choose what content gets boosted. Not advertisers.

Think of it as a tip indicating someone found value. It’s unintended and unsought external incentive since the producer feels appreciated and consumer feels enriched.

...How can something be an "incentive" if it's never sought?

You're wrong. I'm the one being paid to read their thoughts in that scenario. That's completely different.

Fun idea in theory, but in practice it doesn't work like that. I can prove it by making it easier for you. If you give me 1 sat I'll change my mind on this and you will prove me wrong. You can't do it.