Replies (48)
Truth bomb
Wait so who are the "noble idealists" here, the BIP-110'ers?
Above all I don't understand why they can't simply admit the attempt was made and was not successful. There's no shame in that. It's much worse to fork off than to try to increase mining decentralization via OCEAN Datum and other means, which was beginning to be quite successful
@Laeserin I have a meme for this 😏
Knotzis committed to forking off when they pivoted to the narrative that large OP_RETURNs are supportive of pedophilia and thus they must not be associated with it.
I wasted so much time on Bitcoin I'm gonna liquidate half and use a custodian for the rest
So weird to say Bitcoin is captured by fiat governance over the dissolution of a voluntary convention that always had exceptions while we have independent full node options that in no way answer to Chaincode or Brink (lol @ anyone telling Eric how to code libbitcoin).
I like this assessment. I fear you are right. The miner fans are the windmills.
This is the new narrative: Be compliant little boy. Ask for permission little boy. You can't change the world little boy. Bitcoin's purpose has never been to separate money from state. That is idealism little boy.
Everybody is acting like Bip 110 lost and the real Bitcoin won. I'll agree 110 lost, but what did Bitcoin win? Does anyone feel more compelled to run a node after this? Does anyone think there will be less spam, scams, and kiddie porn shoved into the block chain in the future? Enjoy the phyrric victory.
Self reflection is verboten
🎯🎯🎯
What's "Civilization" if not the direct living expression by men who rejected the world as it was, conceived how it should be, and began enacting it?
Bitcoin, Electricity, spaceships, AI, revolutions etc are from idealists. They shape reality for the rest of the normies. Don't forget about it.
This is the wrong philosophy.
Bitcoiners who signalled Knots and BIP110 only erred in that they called the shot too early.
Bitcoin, in its primary PURPOSE and function, is to be a decentralized digital currency that no bank or government controls, that no one can inflate or freeze, that ANYONE can verify, that anyone can also use.
Anything that compromises any of the four compromises Bitcoin the technology as it was intended to work.
Putting hard caps on Non-Monetary data was absolutely the right call to make, but the call was made too early when the node support was too low.
> Use it to improve your life.
Yeah good luck with that.
I was running a BIP110 node up until it became clear that miners were not going to flip the bit. The CSAM argument honestly feels intellectually dishonest. A new coin with no mining nor users is useless
Casa is a multisig self custody business, dumbass. Nothing in our software supports reading or writing arbitrary data to a chain.
I've never encoded image data to the chain, I don't find it particularly interesting.
One explanation is that this is exactly the outcome the winners wanted, at least some of them. Many people were just following the herd and trusting the experts and didn't realize, or refused to believe, this is what they were supporting. But these things aren't unintended side effects for Lopp and his friends.
I get it but I think we need to hodl the line.
View quoted note →Sorry, wrong note.
View quoted note →Be honest SLopp.
Gm
Here’s a reminder to reread don quixote
That silly old book!
View quoted note →Sage advice at a time of disappointment 🧡
View quoted note →Some have found their hill to die on.
They have no other choice.
It's bullshit, your sentiment. It can be reduced to "bitcoin is just a tool, so use it". Meanwhile, you either ignored the fact that the tool is now broken, or your lack of idealism has left you blind with a broken tool and you don't seem to care or notice.
Our ideals were placed on bitcoin as money. Freedom money. World changing money. Not a crypto with new features and a mining department. The IDEA of bitcoin was always that, but that idea changed. So, we're not just crazy lunatics with rose coloured glasses who got sad and caught up in ths drama...we're sad because bitcoin is no longer bitcoin. That's not a ticker thing. It's an ideal that no longer exists.
If you agree that the world without idealists is a hollow place why are you trying to get rid of the idealists?
No. Be a idealist. We need more idealists. Life is not worth living if you aren't one.
Bitcoin is not a tool, Bitcoin is a dream that we have to struggle to make real.
If it was just a tool it would be a very stupid and useless tool and not worth mentioning or thinking about ever.
Bitcoin was never the dream.
Free, uncensorable, fully-accountable, self-custodial money was the dream.
The dream is the problem to be solved. Bitcoin is _currently_ the best solution to solve that problem.
What I see too much of, in the Bitcoin space, is people choosing the solution or altering the solution, and then warping the problem to match it. And then we risk ending up with an unsolved core problem, after we thought that we had already solved it.
Feels like no point in running a node anymore, unless you like storing dickbutts on your computer for some reason. Holding your own keys still makes sense imo. I'll continue doing that while it's still possible.
As much as I dislike spam it is no limitation whatsoever to use bitcoin as money today.
Do u run a node or do u use somebody else's? Spam makes it more expensive to run a node so yes it does limit people around the world to use Bitcoin as money today in a sovereign way.
I run a node. Blocks still have a maximum size. In a long time maybe my disk will be full and I will buy an other one. Costs of disks go down. There are ~ 100k bitcoin nodes which is not enough but probably not because of the cost.
I was against change in core relay policy and run knots (pre rtds). I did not run knots before but decided to do so as I wanted to mine and do my own templates.
I think you are making the issue bigger than it is. Ocean, knots etc are useful within bitcoin. Leaving and forking off is a mistake imo.
Just by another one I guess haha. What a first world view. Wouldn't it be great if a poor family in Guatemala could be self sovereign and run a node too? Wouldn't it be great they could escape government debasement and further decentralize the network?
I wouldn't deter the HF angle. I think it's worth while engaging with the idea that it's actually 5 mining pools forked off and decided the direction of Bitcoin in the face of 20,000 node runes. It was only 20% and not a majority, even though I'm not claiming the system is some kind of democracy, that's something to chew on. What if we had 80% of nodes running rdts? Would that have even changed the outcome? Seemed like most core people celebrated on the first non-signalling block. Is it really ant pool that decides the fate of the network?
I do still support actively stirring the ship within the legacy chain as well. I think supporting the HF and fixing it from within with bips are not mutually exclusive positions, especially because it's an airdrop.
I do believe most reasonable people in Bitcoin want to fight spam, and I'm willing to accept that bip 110 was not good enough. I personally really liked the CAT idea.
I use bitcoin every day and it works great. You would have to provide extraordinary evidence to support your extraordinary claim.
Its been a day, bro.
Okay so it needs more days to break? I still see blocks every ten minutes and people transacting value. When should I expect it to be broken?
Im suggesting that you're not using Bitcoin anymore though. You may as well be using Monero or some other shitcoin. And you say "today"...I'm not interested in today. The whole premise of bitcoin was that it cannot be tampered with and that TOMORROW is what we can rely on. That has changed.
We know each other well enough to know we're completely different people. Do you really want to type stuff to me?
My "extraordinary" claim is that bitcoin CAN now be tampered with. CAN be coersed. CAN be manipulated by the big end of town. You say it works just fine. You say that jpegs and other horrors on chain is part of it. You call people like me clowns or retarded because I'm suggesting that Bitcoin has fundinmentally changed. But it has. We saw that over the past couple of years and proved it on the weekend. What do you actually want from me? "Bitcoin is working just fine for me" is like saying your taxes pay for roads so what's the problem....
There have been JPEGs onchain since the early days. I really think the moral panic over the state of the chain currently has been massively overblown. I also think bip110 put all the power into the hands of dashjr and that is an unacceptable fix.
But as they say Bitcoin is for everybody but not everybody will get it.
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You're glazing over the fact that far more than jpegs can be stored there now - but I think you know what you're doing. Bitcoin isn't bitcoin anymore, which is cool cos you wont have to "get it", you can just have your fund manager select it as a now safe investment strategy. Luke wasnt the power, obviously. It was the Bitcoiners. And we failed.
Bitcoin is only valuable because this can’t happen. In such a scenario there will be broad community’s alignment to attack the problem. My utxo are still my utxos if we have to fork based on a clear and present danger.
This situation you describe is not what is currently happening so it’s not currently relevant.
"this can't happen"...cool cool. I love your confidence.
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@Laeserin what does the problem look like written down before you pick the tooling? warping it to fit the solution you already chose is the failure i see most.
