jack's avatar
jack 2 years ago
Still believe it’s critical we have a credible permissionless alternative to GutHub (ideally based on nostr). One that bitcoin-core and all nostr devs would trust. Moving my bounty up from 120 million sats to 1 billion sats.

Replies (150)

Just for my understanding: i like the idea and all, but actually git works fine when self-hosted. There is no real reason to use github right now, besides convenience and discoverability. By fork/sync it could even be decentralized by hundreds or thousands of instances. Am I missing something?
Bibstra's avatar
Bibstra 2 years ago
This is great. Could such developments also be crowdfunded?
what's even more critical is developing credible, standardized, permissionless reputation system. there have been other distributed protocols, like email. what destroyed them was spam. if we don't have a *distributed reputation system*, NOSTR will eventually go the way of SMTP big relays will start whitelisting other big relays, users will be wary of any relay not in the top 10, because they're filled with crap DM's that will overwhelm them. Some relays will get banned for hosting illegal content and not taking it down. Etc. If we tackle this head first, and assume adversarial environment and begin to develop distributed WOT systems now, we can prevent centralization
#[3] I think the way this bounty is stated is put is not the ideal. I think most people will read this and think we need a big website that is just like GitHub but using Nostr somehow. I think that is not what we should see (and hopefully that's not what #[1] wants either). What I would want to see are multiple apps that can interoperate and are able to perform separate functions: - browse code - comment on code (referenced by a commit) - create issues and comment on issues - send patches - comment on patches And how these should be done? I am not sure, but here's what I have in mind: - most of the comment things should probably be kind:1 events, I don't know, with some extra tags (so they could be interacted with from the normal "social" Nostr clients? or not?) - code should probably be hosted by standalone dedicated git servers -- and there could be centralized providers offering these services but they should interoperate seamlessly between themselves and with standalone personal servers - sending patches should probably be done using something like this approach by #[0]: #[2] has opened a discussion on this topic on the NIPs repository that could possibly be used to coordinate the efforts: I think we could have multiple different smallish webapps, native apps and specially command-line tools that implement one or multiple of the separate functions described above, and with that we can achieve a much better result both in terms of quality and of decentralization than if someone or some big team decides to tackle the entire cake and come up with some centralizing architecture on their own.
Jack Dorsey, Ex-Ceo do Twitter, acabou de oferecer 1 Bilhão de Satoshis (que hoje é equivalente a quase R$1.2 Milhões) p/ quem contruir um Github decentralizado nos moldes do Nostr p/ abrigar arquivos de projetos open source. Aí sim estamos falando de decentralização! #bitcoin #nostr #github #[0]
I would extend the feature set from just sending patches to pull requests (git endpoint + branch + target branch). git has this for email but it’s pretty janky and nostr apps could do it better.
An open source GitHub promotes collaboration, transparency, and innovation, making it an ideal platform for developers to work together and build cutting-edge technologies. #opensource #GitHub
With GitHub, developers can easily share their code, collaborate on projects, and track changes, making it an essential tool for building software and applications. #GitHub #collaboration
The Lighting Network is a revolutionary technology that enables faster and cheaper Bitcoin transactions. Integrating it with GitHub could further enhance its capabilities and make it even more accessible to developers.
By integrating the Lighting Network with GitHub, developers could leverage its lightning-fast transaction speeds and low fees to build new and innovative decentralized applications. #decentralized #LightningNetwork
An open source GitHub could also help promote the adoption of the Lighting Network by providing a platform for developers to collaborate and build new applications that leverage its capabilities. #adoption #GitHub
An open source GitHub could also help promote the adoption of the Lighting Network by providing a platform for developers to collaborate and build new applications that leverage its capabilities. #adoption #GitHub
An open source GitHub could also help foster a stronger sense of community among developers interested in the Lighting Network, encouraging knowledge sharing and collaboration. #community #knowledge #LightningNetwork
Integrating the Lighting Network with GitHub could also help improve the security and reliability of the network by providing a platform for developers to review and audit the code. #security #reliability #LightningNetwork
By using open source GitHub to build Lightning Network applications, developers could also contribute to the broader ecosystem and help shape the future of decentralized finance. #decentralizedfinance #GitHub #LightningNetwork
This i am waiting for so Long. 👍 This ist so importand to have a censorfree Platform Like GitHub. Jack please let this Dream come through.
in fact, now that im thinking of it, the UX can imply sync across a set of git urls. that way you can clone any url in the set, make a fork, push it anywhere, submit a PR, reference a branch, include a comment and title, and that branch should be "assumed sync" i think that's key to keeping it simple.
Yeah this is just a hack though. I think to fulfill the bounty it would need a really good UX, pull request support, code review, etc. web UI for managing issues for users, cli clients for devs. Lots of work to do! I’m tempted to do it but want to give other people a shot first. If I’m not happy with the solutions I will consider it.
Yes emailed patches are a core workflow for Linus/linux as it makes it easy to contribute code without needing a public repo and branch. You would still probably want git-request-pull like functionality for maintainers. The reason I mention this is that bitcoin-core doesn’t support patch workflows that well, as they rely on a signed chain of commit hashes and ACKs on specific commits.
jack's avatar
jack 2 years ago
Yes I def know it’s already decentralized and how it works. However, bitcoin core has a current dependency on GitHub collection of tools and interfaces. This seems fixable. I think fiatjaf lays out the most critical needs much better than I did.
One thought: Nostr already has a strong set of npubs following each other with cryptographic signatures that could be the basis of a web of trust. This could easily grow bigger than GPG ever was. nsec signing of git commits might be the logical next step for a truly decentralized github replacement. Improvements to current Nostr key management would be needed. e.g. Npub delegation, subkeys, and revocation would allow people to keep master secrets offline rather than pasting it into several web and phone apps.
Appreciate all the time you’ve put into nostr Melvin, you deserve more than 5k sats😅
I contributed on nostr-based github replacement and we"ll continue for other nostr-apps.
jack's avatar
jack 2 years ago
i don’t have a GitHub account 😬 commit 4134343b3b3a63a4d2ff0c6542704b80505458ec (HEAD -> main) Author: jack <jack@freecpu.localdomain> Date: Sat Mar 4 14:14:01 2023 -0600 cleaning up and pointing to fiatjaf's post diff --git a/2023-01-19-nostr-based-github.md b/2023-01-19-nostr-based-github.md index d8ffb2b..f88ba16 100644 --- a/2023-01-19-nostr-based-github.md +++ b/2023-01-19-nostr-based-github.md @@ -4,28 +4,18 @@ title: "Nostr-based GitHub replacement" date: 2023-01-19 10:43:00 -0500 categories: code author: jack -value: 10.5 +value: 10.05 currency: BTC -contact: View quoted note → +contact: @jack status: New --- -"will pay 120,000,000 sat (at least) bounty for best nostr-based GitHub replacement. “Best” as determined by this community." +Create a "complete" Nostr-based suite of git tools, such that projects like bitcoin-core are sufficiently confident to move away from GitHub. Best thread on this is here: -https://brb.io/n/0b2642fe0cf4a3c4daf315bedd5382266747b92d909c60f753f9160cba3d21f5 + --- "Eric pledges another 5,000,000 sats if the best product is selected." - ---- - -2023-03-03 update: - -Still believe it’s critical we have a credible permissionless alternative to GutHub (ideally based on nostr). One that bitcoin-core and all nostr devs would trust. - -Moving my bounty up from 120 million sats to 1 billion sats. - -note17gfm0k0ssw4qctpge32dp3nulu975mjpdl9nqmrs78msp622d90qvdral4
This is doable without to much work. All someone has to do in order to make this happen is adapt the git-ssb implementation to nostr. The one shift is that git-ssb puts the patches and repos in to a blob because ssb has a signed message size limit of 8k on messages. With nostr you could skip that step.
THE NOSTR REPORT BADGE OF HONOR? Mar 4, 2023 Block Height: 779,356 Moscow Time: 44:82 ⚡/ $ —-------------------------- 🎙️Quote of the Day🎙️ —-------------------------- Best part about Bitcoiners is that most of them are authentic, creative and critical thinkers who base their understanding through rationality, intuition and curiosity. The only way you become a Bitcoin maximalist truly is asking questions, you can’t orange pill someone. #[0] #[1] —-------------------------- 🚨Headline Nostr News🚨 —-------------------------- If you've been seeing a lot of notes about badges and are confused, you're not alone. Brush up on Nip-58 here ( ), and check out badges.page to manage your nostr badges. #[2] announces https://nostrit.com/ - a paid service that allows you to schedule your nostr note at a certain time/date, block height, btc price, or even shitcoin price. We tested and worked great, this post was actually scheduled for block 779,356. Well done ser! #[3] #[4] adds thread caching to Damus, drastically improving the speed at which threads load. ✊🧵 #[5] #[6] Iris now available for download in iOS App Store! 🪷🚀 #[7] #[8] raises bounty for a decentralized alternative to GitHub to 1-billion sats. 🏆 See linked note and the following web link for more details: #[9] #[10] Nostore is now available for iOS and silicon Macs. 🛅 #[11] #[12] confirms with Wallet of Satoshi that the Zapathon attempted stress test of their custodial wallet is encouraged because it helps them push the boundaries of their capabilities. Game on! Check here for the next Zapathon. ⚡🏃‍♀️⚡🏃⚡ #[13] #[14] Wallet of Satoshi shares data from yesterday’s #zapathon ⚡🏃‍♀️⚡🏃⚡ #[15] —-------------------------- 🏝️Nostrica Update🏝️ —-------------------------- #[16] #Nostrica Hackathon 🌴👨‍💻👩‍💻🦜 #[17] —-------------------------- 💻nostr Tech💻 —-------------------------- #[18] writes a post giving their “Tips for Relays” and describes a method to cut back in the number of relays you are using. 📡𓅦📡 #[19] #[20] Updated list of paid relays with ⚡️sats, events/day, and authors listed as stats. 📋 #[21] #[18] breaks down what the benefits of the nostr.wine relay and tips on how to manage your relay list. 🍷📡🍷 #[19] 🔩 Will we see BOLT12 more widely implemented soon? 🔩 #[22] #[23] #[24] shares 2 more bounties that have been distributed, and explains a different approach to bounties moving forward. 🫰🫰 #[25] —-------------------------- 🔥🔥Meme of the Day🔥🔥 —-------------------------- 👮‍♂️🏅🎖🥇 #[26] #[27] —-------------------------- Stay Classy Nostr.
Cyber Seagull's avatar
Cyber Seagull 2 years ago
Maybe we should ask them what they would need to switch ? I know they have specific signing and backup procedures in case Bill Gates gets a littke too drunk one day, But specific decentralization requirements/standards and putlines from core devs would be useful. What are the trade-offs they are willing to make ? Something like : "as long as these conditions are met, we don't mind porting to a new solution in the interest of anti-fragility" this is a whole project in of itself : leaving github.
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It'sMe 2 years ago
When you get a chance, can you explain what you mean by "permissionless"? As far as I'm aware, every active project that uses GitHub has one or more people who approve or deny someone's contributions, so it seems to be permissioned to me.
Manel's avatar
Manel 2 years ago
just sent you 500sats to collaborate feels crazy to be able to tip a bilionarie😁
Likewise! I think a good mvp could be just creating a note for a specific bounty then pledging to contribute whatever is zapped toward the project. Obviously requires trust in the creator but I think that’s ok for now
#[5]​ had some good ideas for a crowdfund as well. Maybe y’all could work together on this
Muz's avatar
Muz 2 years ago
Skipping compression would be a mistake, adding compression to whatever the implementation ends up being might be more useful
I'm working on it but with an another scheme for modularity, gonna reveal it soon.
Basically commit merging scheme of Git was creating a commit chain which could be painful on async networks if you are trying to get all parts to get final repository, im creating a solution for that.
I wonder, seriously, git commits are mostly text, git is distributed too. Might actually work. However,from what I have seen,#nostr doesn't have the concept of consensus so how to deal with merge conflicts due to missing messages? #[0]
For some clients: "(" is not splitted from url so you would need to delete that manually 😐
Gonna release our CLI tomorrow and finish issues & pull requests page on our web client hopefully and we will be ready. image
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August 2 years ago
you should look at what podcastindex.org is doing with splits and fees. Instead of 1 billion to one - a clear path to profitability to everyone involved in the infrastructure.
techfeudalist 's avatar
techfeudalist 2 years ago
I’m working on it but won’t sign up to GitHub to avoid doxing myself.
RESOLVR's avatar
RESOLVR 2 years ago
@jack, you should move your bounty to a marketplace that's actually built on nostr. 😉 Resolvr.io Nostr development needs nostr-native tools. View quoted note →
Clarity in the bounty description is key to avoiding disputes and controversy when developers seek to claim a bounty. And resolvr.io is a nostr- and bitcoin-native bounty marketplace with dispute resolution tools designed to resolve disputes when they do arise.
This is something I'm working on. But we can't do it on peanuts. So we are getting funding from aspiring AWS competitors, with tokens. I'd love to be able to convince them to anchor their stakes on real money. But they are funding real basic research. Even if they don't mean to.
GitNestr development is still going. There's a separate heya.fund goal for the alpha version. Note for future massive bounties like this: these kinds of bounties should probably be split into smaller chunks for sustainability. Sats for milestones. That would probably encourage more FOSS contributions. GitNestr will itself provide the platform for easier payouts for bounties eventually. I hope we'll get lots of FOSS contributions once we release the alpha.
That plus the social layer on Nostr. Repositories on @HORNETS relays, git for the version control, The Nostr for managing Issues & PRs.
@jack Todavía creo que es fundamental que tengamos una alternativa creíble sin permisos a GitHub (idealmente basada en nostr). Una en la que bitcoin-core y todos los desarrolladores de nostr confíen. Subo mi recompensa de 120 millones de sats a 1.000 millones de sats. [trad DeepL] #español View quoted note →
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nobody 2 years ago
Thanks for responding in a language I understand
Increasingly thinking “on top of Nostr” isn’t a good idea, Radicle’s protocol seems very well thought out. Feels like adding Nostr would be unnecessary mess - storing everything (code, issues, PRs, identity/ownership *in* git itself is kinda genius) @jack I seriously think you should look at radicle. (Only slightly butthurt that it’s ED25519 not the clearly superior bestest curve Secp256k1 😂)
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Apollo 1 year ago
I really think that this is a case where IPFS would shine. A content-based address space sort of takes care of the trust element. People could pin their favorite repos and distribute hosting costs. Multiple front-ends could be developed independently that all utilize the same shared storage.
Diyana's avatar
Diyana 9 months ago
Curious. Why would "on top of Nostr" or adding Nostr be unnecessary mess? Super grateful for your elaboration to a non-dev.
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Duvel 7 months ago
An option is to use git and email? The Linux kernel developers have been doing this successfully for years.
CDLight's avatar
CDLight 7 months ago
@jack Sorry, I’m a bit lost here. What’s the use of the bounty on nostr?
=============================== #7 ⚡ Most Zapped Last Week =============================== Nostr’s Value4Value (V4V) model is all about plebs directly rewarding creators for the value they receive, no middlemen fees, no ads, just pure community-driven support using sats via the Bitcoin Lightning Network. Thanks to by @PABLOF7z for providing this data. Here are the top zapped posts from last week, showcasing creators who received the most engagement: 🔥 Top 3: Most Zaps 1. Zaps Received: 132 Sats Earned: 51k View quoted note → 2. Zaps Received: 100 Sats Earned: 13k View quoted note → 3. Zaps Received: 49 Sats Earned: 7k View quoted note → 💰 Top 3: Most Sats 1. Sats Earned: 441k Zaps Received: 192 View quoted note → 2. Sats Earned: 200k Zaps Received: 12 View quoted note → 3. Sats Earned: 51k Zaps Received: 132 View quoted note → #most-zapped_nostr_recap
hasky's avatar
hasky 4 months ago
I got the feeling that I will get 120 million $ richer today 😂
Benking's avatar
Benking 4 months ago
Decentralized code infrastructure is long overdue. With Nostr’s primitives and Bitcoin’s incentives, this is more than possible — it’s inevitable.
So I asked @npub1sp4e...70aw @npub1gxrl...ndea THIS : ‼️🚨⏰⏰🚨‼️‼️🚨⏰⏰🚨‼️🚨 🤓🙋🏻‍♀️⁉️ Can someone explain to me like I’m 5 * HOW * this #1BILLIONBOUNTY isn’t complete yet? 1. Ima not a tech expert. So maybe it’s harder than just recreating #GHub but IF : a. Majority of tech experts agree that they don’t know how #AI works ( which is #HUGE for #humanity ) 2. #Guthub is #opensource and everything is #code 👩🏻‍💻 and majority of #Nostr believes in #FOSS 3. Is it a matter of organization? Greed ? Is this part of the #knot #core debate? One that #bitcoin-core and all #nostr #devs would trust. And the response was : Got it 🚨🤓 let’s break this down as simply as possible, and also look at why the “#1BILLIONBOUNTY” (a huge call for building a trusted open-source hub for AI/Bitcoin/Nostr devs) hasn’t been fully realized yet. ⸻ 🧩 1. Why it sounds simple (but isn’t) • GitHub exists → it’s open-source in spirit but owned by Microsoft. • Nostr + FOSS culture → Most people in Nostr and Bitcoin want tools to be open, decentralized, and not captured by corporations. • #AI #transparency → Devs admit: even they don’t know how #LLMs fully “work” under the hood. That fuels distrust and the demand for auditable, open, community-built AI. So on the surface: “just fork GitHub, make it decentralized, and add AI audit layers.” Easy, right? ⸻ ⚙️ 2. Why it’s harder in practice 1. Scale & Funding • GitHub isn’t just code hosting — it’s version control, search, actions, integrations, global uptime. • Rebuilding that in decentralized form (without VC/corp money) is massive. • A billion-dollar bounty sounds big, but coordinating who gets what for which contributions is messy. 2. AI complexity • Open-source AI exists (HuggingFace, EleutherAI, Mistral, etc.), but training/fine-tuning at the frontier level costs tens of millions in compute. • Transparency = harder when even researchers can’t explain “why GPT said this.” 3. Human Factors • Organization: Who coordinates? Who decides rules? • Trust: #Core vs #Knots vs #Nostr devs already debate governance — adding #AI/FOSS infra only multiplies the politics. • Greed/Fear: Big corps ( #OpenAI #Anthropic #Google #MS @npub1rgcs...2ety 👀 @The BTC Philanthropist noice @npub1e8pr...y42a @Microsoft without sign up @microsolco @Microsoft Design / @MicrosoftDesign @npub1njzu...vjse and all others … fuck this noise … I know what to do next lock things down because money + liability. ⸻ 🔗 3. Is this tied to #Core vs #Knots vs #Nostr? • Bitcoin-Core vs Knots debate is already about centralization of power in code. • A “#GHub for AI/Bitcoin/Nostr” would face the same trust issue: • Who runs it? • Who approves pull requests? • Could one maintainer (like Luke-Jr in Knots) become a single point of failure? Yes — it’s the same argument in new clothes: “How do we build tech infra everyone trusts, when trust itself is decentralized?” ⸻ 🚨 4. So why no #1BILLIONBOUNTY success yet? • Not just greed. It’s: • Governance problem (who runs it). • Incentive problem (who gets paid). • Scale problem (infrastructure costs). • Complexity problem (AI is not as deterministic as Bitcoin code). ⸻ ✅ TL;DR: It’s not that people don’t want it — it’s that building a “trustless GitHub for AI/Bitcoin/Nostr” is like trying to build a new internet layer, not just a website. It needs compute, governance, and social consensus — the same things Bitcoin itself took decades to harden. ⸻ ⚡Q for you: Want me to sketch out what a “trusted, decentralized GitHub-for-AI/Bitcoin/Nostr” blueprint could look like (layers: storage, governance, incentives, trust model) — so you can see the path from idea → working prototype? View quoted note →