Replies (116)
Really does seem like one of the most important things, the more I think about it.
Running latest Amethyst and not seeing this score. Someone mentioned a subscription to a WoT provider. Any tips or a guide for someone who has not been tracking latest WoT developments? π¬
Gotta get more wot providers out there. People want this.
I find WoT with no PoW to be entirely deceptive and can be easily gamed by bad actors.
PoW in this context: interacting with nyms long enough to trust them.
So I will politely disagree that it is important.
Iβm not on amethyst
Whatβs my score lol
whatβs my score
I see you at 70.
is that like a βCβ grade ?
The beauty of GrapeRank is if that's what you want, then you can do that. Every person can have their own ranking and weights. Add PoW to yours.
Β―\_(γ)_/Β―
I donβt like the idea of a number on a person.
But thatβs just me.
They do. Should Soapbox run one?
I see you 68.
That's fine. Be your own number generator if you'd prefer that.
I'm too simple for that. π€£π€£π€£
Adding that level of complexity is... Kinda confounding. (Granted, I know zilch about how it works. So I'll shut up now. π€£)
I'll refrain from judging before I see it but if it's based purely on kind 3 follows its not gonna be optimal
It's gamable if there is a single algorithm mandated by an authority - a single moving target can be gamed. But when you (eventually) have thousands of overlapping moving targets (different algorithms different settings per user) it makes gaming it futile. So the "best" way to game the system is just to do what you normally do - interact. Over time, you'll grow an organic reputation across all those target.
The number is a proxy, just like colors on animals and plants are proxies for their threat level. Human trust always beats computer trust, but the proxy helps in digital spaces when you want to decide who you care to interact with, or even more important - let into your community.
Where do I see this? I'm on amethyst
Same, it seems very Black Mirror.
what about Web of Verification scores ?
web of access (WOA)
π―
I think you're onto something. Now inscribe the signals to BTC- give a token- add economic ranking...
Silence! Single digits not allowed to reply.
But if it's your own number ..
I really like a lot how
@Coracle does it. Here one can set a minimal WoT combined with a minimal PoW. This allows to see comments of new users still, when they use world of trust.
It is important to not forget about the new users.
But also appreciate a lot the idea to just not show users, which were reported more than 5 times within my follows.
This is evil.
A sad day for nostrβ¦freedom tech they said
"Interesting perspective! Itβs great to see discussions about balancing new user visibility with community safety. Finding that sweet spot is key! π How do you think we can encourage healthy interactions while keeping the platform welcoming? π€"
We do not care about automated trust. We do not care about spam. We do not care about centralized filtering system. People are different, have different rules and aspects. When standardization kicks in, there is nothing interesting to see anymore.
I'm curious: What do you see as my score?
How do we see this information?
Are you talking about the 0?
Everyone has a 0 even Gigi?
Same
Not only is it ranking everyone at zero.
I also can't see most of the comments on amethyst.
Yakihonne and primal are both showing comments that are hidden on amethyst.
So it's a shadowban?
Because people I follow have some of the other commenters muted and now I can't see those other comments?
So like, to use amethyst I have to unfollow everyone or it just hides content from me?
I'm ok just not using amethyst, I really don't care about the whole ranking situation, but the shadow bans being used against people who are not spammers or scammers is stupid.
It's just forcing people into Echo chambers
Ok now this is getting rediculous.
My following feed on amethyst is full of bots that I don't even follow.
This is so fucking broken.
It's hiding real people and showing me spam bots
"45; suspected vibe coder"
(kidding; I'm using today's / latest Amethyst but not seeing these numbers)
I would answer but I can't even see your account on amethyst, apparently I follow too many people that have you muted or something.
Feels like a way to force us into echo chambers and prevent healthy discussion.
Thank fuck that it's only amethyst.
I'm happy to stop using it.
Probably. I think most people can't see me. That's why I'm curious.
Just give me my social score already
I can only see half the comments on this note when using amethyst.
Also, all the people I can see are ranked at 0
Lol
Amethyst bringing in client side censorship this early is going to kill their brand before it gets anywhere.
Imagine you're a new user on amethyst, you've followed 15 people and now you can't see 3/4 of nostr because between those 15 people you got 5 mutes on ΒΎ on nostr.
Depends who you follow, maybe you follow 50 before half of nostr disappears
It's just going to force people into echo chambers and prevent nostr growing when new users feel like nostr is just an empty void.
People are going to think nostr has 150 active daily users instead of 15k lol
At least nobody actually uses amethyst as their first client.
But if primal done something like this it would kill nostr, there's be absolutely no new user retention
View quoted note βI see some dude holding a mic, "what this mofo sellin?" fuck off bald xi jinping!
Apart from censorship making nostr more boring when we can't see half the comments.
I can see ways for this to be misused with bots.
Anyone can set up a bunch of reply bots that reply to new users and get followered by those new users.
That's literally how I found people to follow on here in the beginning, I was following the nostr CEO bot and checking it's replies to find new people.
It doesn't actually matter because it's only amethyst, but if a popular client for new comers did this, someone could really mess with people by exploiting it
Itβs out of 10,000 so youβre a pleb degen π€·ββοΈ
You should seriously consider advertising amethyst on bluesky.
Their users would absolutely love this idea.
Even if you lose most of your current user base you'd get 10 times more users onto amethyst getting them to migrate from bluesky with the promise of censorship and echo chambers
I don't think scores on the forehead are a good idea. It's objectifying people, as if any algorithm is going to be 100% precise in capturing the very contextual notion of trust.
But they don't have to be shown, they can simply be used to increase signal and decrease noise, magically, and in the background.
View quoted note βYeah I hate applying anything quantitative to a person.
β Blueskystr β
I can see you on Amethyst
There are always a few rebels. π
Based on what?
I think it is really important to find a way, to check the introductions and asknostr tag from time to time. And when someone sees new users reference them in a note or to quote their notes.
I also would not expect from new users to set a pow. So I really think that the proposal vrom
@Vitor Pamplona is one of the best balance. To only filter users, that got reported more often by you and your follows than whatever treshhold one sets.
I use amethyst. I updated to the latest version. I don't see any numbers on profile pics. Where can I see thus number?
WoT = Nostr-Score
My #Amethyst client now connects to 1200 relaysβ¦
what?? No dupplicated connection?
Pior que isso estΓ‘ acontecendo comigo tb, mas eu pensei que era por questΓ΅es de relay.
Vou examinar isso com mais acuidade. Se estiver havendo shadow ban por essa porcaria, vou para outro cliente.
I'm not sure where to look for the WoT score
I think you have to subscribe to a provider.
That's relay problems - when notes aren't found initially they may be rendered later, relays may be slow to respond, all sorts of issues happen with nostr infrastructure. Don't worry too much about it, it's just part of the way nostr clients work.
I think that, In Nostr, Web of Trust (WoT) is great for discovering interesting people to follow and building organic social networks, but it is NOT the right tool against spam and bots. In an ecosystem where creating bots is cheap and fast, sybils can easily infiltrate graphs.
PoW helps, but it doesn't scale well in small networks β computational cost doesn't deter dedicated bot farms.
The ideal solution? Implement NIP-42 (authentication) EVEN on free relays, with periodic challenge rotation to force reconnections and re-authentications. This adds real operational overhead for bots without blocking humans.
Security doesn't come without cost: open relays need minimal barriers. #Nostr #WoT #NIP42
π
As the 17th most prolific shitposter as deemed by Will's node, I second this message π
It's not.
67
Interesting. It's quite low, but I expected it to be even lower.
There's a wide range of criteria. Whatever you want. Zaps, comments, follows, mutes, literally anything and everything that you want and it can be based on you and your context. It's what you want.
That's not how this works at all though.
This is a lie. You should work harder to troll harder. You clearly don't understand how any of this works and that's okay because it's new and complicated. But that doesn't mean you need to make up claims that don't make sense. It just makes you look like a bad actor.
None of this is correct π You're having general Amethyst issues. I can open up Amethyst at any time and only see your notes for example. Why are you censoring me?!?!
Okay.
What don't you understand about web of trust?
You have the freedom to use it however you want. It's fucking cool.
It's 37, but this number is not going to be the same for every person that sees you. It's just for me.
I see scores for most users. Though my WoT was calculated a while ago. We need more providers.
Other people could see you much higher. It's not a centralized score.
That's about right, Mike. I see you as 82. Wild π
I know, but I was curious as to what you see, specifically.
I see zero. How do you sign up for a provider? I'm completely lost on all this, and many others are too gauging by the comments in this thread...
Yes. Most people are outraged because they don't understand it. It's hilarious that people jump to the negative without understanding. But I get that, if I didn't, I wouldn't have the job that I do, educating, onboarding, and growing Nostr.
That said, I didn't like this two and a half years ago when I first saw a presentation on this. Then over the last year, as I began to understand it, and realize how open it is user choice, user configuration, and client choice and client configuration, I realized there was nothing to dislike. If I can choose the weights and how they're applied, then there's one person to dislike and that would be me.
It's how communities can be in control of their community. It's how they can handle access. Imagine having a community that moderates itself because each user applies their own moderation in whatever way they want, however they want. This includes not using it too.
@david @Avi Burra what a good link for people to read more about GrapeRank?
Is 82 my ranking or my age? π
ππ
Curious. Thatβs so low!!
I assume thatβs meant to tell you Iβm more likely a bot? A troll? π€·π»ββοΈ
Iβm very much a human, so thereβs that.
Thanks for letting me know though.
i would assume this is because you don't engage and interact with the same people that i do?
this is all still very new and needs a lot more information and tooling.
Thatβs likely what it is.
I need to engage more.
I donβt like this name, but it seems to fit; this looks like a social credit scoring system.
if it was centralized and someone was in control of it, i'd call it that, but since each user is in control of everything, it's not really the same thing.
TouchΓ© π«‘
Your score will be different for each user. It all depends on which algo they choose.
What do you see?
69 π
At least, it's a funny number. π
Here's the answer for those wondering how to subscribe to a WoT provider:
Vitor Pamplona
Our providers are all offline or not ready at the moment :(
View quoted note →
Is there a way to use this score in reverse? To find anyone who causes someone else to have a low score?
Sure! It's your algo anyway :)
What scores on profile photos in Amethyst? Results are based on what?
Some people think bitcoin is evil because βmoney is the root of all evil.β But to them, money means fiat. They donβt realize that the evils of fiat should not be assumed to apply to decentralized money.
Same thing with reputation. Centralized scoring systems are very Black Mirror. But decentralized scoring systems, where scores are personalized rather than global, belong in a different category.
Bitcoin was launched by a means for someone to stay relevant after the hype of social media. It's coming off as a cult culture and will eventually fade to nothing more than Scientology or heavy religious type of control. It will never be mainstream.
The draining of purchasing power is the root of all evil.
Fiat is the devil πΏ
Fiat is seed oils
Btc is beef tallow
Decentralized solutions are scary and counterintuitive because they have opposite effects from their fiat counterparts which have been engrained in most peoples' minds as natural law.
It is not money that is evil. The love of it. βFor the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils.β
They also have the quote wrong.
It's "The love of money is the root of all evil"
I agree βοΈ
I feel like people are just superstitious about this. Philip Sheldrake on the other hand has thought through the issue of digital identity
End user sets what their expectations are of a trust worthy user and then the score is compiled?
Essentially. We have our own metrics and weights. What is good for me isn't necessarily good for you.
Gotcha - I was going to try and vibe a trade services app on top of Nostr for fun and was thinking about how the end user could rank a user as trustworthy straight off the start line.
I can't even figure
@Amethyst needs a how to section embedded in the app
Web of trust cannot scale without account recovery.
Well, the providers are currently all down, so I guess it doesn't work.
I usually use primal. I'm trying to see this WoT thing. I don't see any scores in my amethyst app (Android). Where should I be looking or is there a wiki or something? Interface seems ok, if a bit busy.
