fiatjaf's avatar
fiatjaf _@fiatjaf.com 5 months ago
Maybe following people is overrated. It's totally doable to use Nostr by just following relays instead. You can get a very nice and well-curated feed today by just browsing wss://nostr.wine or wss://pyramid.fiatjaf.com -- and this is because basically no one even knows or is aware of this mode of doing things and we don't have the relay infrastructure necessary to enable such flows, so it has a lot to improve. Maybe we should really only be following at most 50 people each, only the people we want to ensure we will not lose sight of, and people who have been banned or inhabit a different ecosystem (of relays) than the one we frequent the most. Aside from that just following a bunch of relays, either grouped together or in different tabs.

Replies (74)

TheBitSmith's avatar
TheBitSmith jollytiger4@primal.net 5 months ago
50 people max follow sounds like a pretty good limit. Gives you the right level of signal and forces you to prioritise who you get the signal from.
fiatjaf's avatar
fiatjaf _@fiatjaf.com 5 months ago
Other relays to try today: wss://relays.land/spatianostra or wss://algo.utxo.one or wss://140.f7z.io (again, this is early). Relays that do automatic curation, manual curation, relays that slurp data from others and filter them, relays that belong to closed or closed-ish communities, relays that have weird incentive models to get people to post. There are many unexplored possibilities.
1 replies ↓
Globe99's avatar
Globe99 globe99@nostrcheck.me 5 months ago
Really? Just load up a relay? That's basically the equivalent of clicking the old "I feel lucky" on Google. Without a search prompt. There needs to be *some* kind of filtration function. I agree "follows" aren't great -- this is sort of a Twitter model. Which was originally built by a bunch of people who knew eachother IRL, and only later became the sort of "micro-celebrity" model we have today. Reddit has always worked better for me because it's content organized by *subject*, not any particular person or set of people. But the great thing about Nostr is that it can be all of this, but decentralized and with unstoppable monetization.
2 replies ↓
Corban's avatar
Corban 5 months ago
Interesting idea. It seems to be analogous to real-life tribes/communities, so maybe it’s healthy and natural.
fiatjaf's avatar
fiatjaf _@fiatjaf.com 5 months ago
By the way, @Laeserin πŸ‡»πŸ‡¦, if I build these relays I'm mentioning after this post it's just because I want them to exist and be tried, not because I'm pre-marketing an existing product. I don't have them built here nor I know of anyone who is working on them.
fiatjaf's avatar
fiatjaf _@fiatjaf.com 5 months ago
This is true, I remember her saying something like that but I had never actually browsed through wss://theforest.nostr1.com/. I wonder what exactly it is doing as I see some of my posts there but I don't publish to it. @Cody you should add that one to the default list on Jumble maybe. And also wss://nostr.land/ and the ones I mentioned above maybe. And maybe wss://yabu.me if you detect the user is from Japan? I'm sure there are other regional relays, like the Thai ones? The Damus source code has some of these hardcoded at
GitHub
damus/damus/Util/Relays/RelayBootstrap.swift at eeea9d3266adda856bc9732812d07240c9630ed0 Β· damus-io/damus
iOS nostr client. Contribute to damus-io/damus development by creating an account on GitHub.
 but I don't know if they're all worth using as a pure feeds or if they're full of spam.
2 replies ↓
STERRY's avatar
STERRY 5 months ago
I like the intention of better UX but scalability-wise it's similar to the idea that we should all move to the woods. Just doesn't support a billion people on Nostr. For that we need to decouple transport from the social graph and better solve the common neighbor problem that relays currently pose. I'm all for following fewer people at the same time. Circles or tribes or aspects as they're called in other systems help replicate the closeness of the offline good old days. More people will feel they belong if they converse both up and down the social ladder.
1 replies ↓
Nice and Kind Vic's avatar
Nice and Kind Vic vic@cornychat.com 5 months ago
Only that Kind 3 is deprecated. Use follow sets instead. The best apps will leverage follow sets like Corny Chat, Coracle, Amethyst, Gossip and Nostrudel. I want to see more of what Coracle is doing to build custom filter views as well
Dawn's avatar
Dawn dawn@spatia-arcana.com 5 months ago
Lockbox changed my perception of what a follow can do on Nostr. That kind of stuff, plus relay feeds is going to be powerful once it's more accessible.
Cody's avatar
Cody cody@jumble.social 5 months ago
We need a user-friendly NIP-86 dashboard and a relay implementation that supports NIP-86. Maybe developers aren’t the best fit to run and manage relays, we need more specialized people to handle this.
Cody's avatar
Cody cody@jumble.social 5 months ago
The data doesn’t live on just one relay, and npub doesn’t belong to any relay either, so it’s not the same as Mastodon. I guess what fiatjaf wants are relays that curate high-quality content, each with their own filtering strategies to provide feeds tailored to different interests.
1 replies ↓
Globe99's avatar
Globe99 globe99@nostrcheck.me 5 months ago
Outside of npub portability, again, it seems like you're just describing Mastodon. Federation means different instances can indeed share information, and I guess there is technically a means of user migration between instances, even if it isn't frequently used... But in what fiatjaf is describing, you wouldn't be moving your npub at all anyway! "Just connect to these three or four servers" just seems to defeat the entire purpose of a decentralized social network. And besides that, the issue is that it vastly increased the legal liability on relay operators, who now 100% have to operate as content moderators.
3 replies ↓
Cody's avatar
Cody cody@jumble.social 5 months ago
Strictly speaking, there's no such thing as "migrating" an npub, it was never tied to any one place to begin with. Once an event is signed, it objectively exists. In fact, your events already exist on relays all over the world, even ones you never explicitly published to. (This very reply of yours is already on a relay I run at home.) That’s what I see as the biggest difference between nostr and mastodon. Decentralization isn’t about how many relays you use. You connected to 14 relays, but I’d guess you don’t have absolute control over any of them. I only use five, but I control two of them. So who’s more censorship-resistant? Any service that exposes data publicly carries some legal risk, that’s a general truth, not specific to this idea. And no one’s saying every relay needs to moderate content. Public relays and curated relays can coexist.
aco's avatar
aco satsmo@nostr.land 5 months ago
Have a feeling relays with no censorship will be the most profitable moving forward.
Silberengel's avatar
Silberengel silberengel@gitcitadel.com 5 months ago
I whitelisted everyone on my old follow list and then opened it up to paid subscribers. You don't actually have to write directly to it, as I stream and sync in, over the whitelist. It's a nice relay to subscribe to, as real humans look at the global. So, if you write to it, people immediately see your stuff and start responding. You don't have to be popular or famous or ubiquitous, to get interactions, on community relays. Just show up and don't be so gross that you get kicked off, again. I subscribe to a couple of community relays and I aggregate their streams, and look straight at the global in the client. I use Jumble for that, now, but we're building our own community clients, and I'll eventually use those, instead. People call this a "walled garden", but it's actually the most-effective way for a newbie to show up and get immediate human responses. If you put all npubs into one gigantic stream (which is what Twitter and Bluesky and Primal and Damus etc. do), then people have to stick to looking at follows and lists and etc. The stream is too big and too gross, to look straight at it. Everyone ends up following the people everyone else is following, so the effect compounds. Follow packs and recommendation lists are just subsets of the people everyone already knows and likes (which is why I'm hardly on any). Users not looking at global is why other relays have such big problems with spam. The relay moderators/admins are also only looking at follows, so they often don't see the spam, or just figure out some way to block the spam in their particular client, but other people using that relay keep seeing the spam. That's why we only onboard people to theforest: no spam, no annoying bots, no hardcore porn, no etc. Only stuff we are willing to look at on our own phone. You can use theforest on any client and you never see any spam.
Silberengel's avatar
Silberengel silberengel@gitcitadel.com 5 months ago
No, they actually can't. Nostr is a protocol. Anyone can start a relay. Nobody can stop you from starting one. Takes like 15 minutes. I've got 9 relays running, at the moment, including one on my cell phone.
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x 5 months ago
πŸ₯œσ …“σ …‘σ …£σ …˜σ …₯σ „²σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …€σ …•σ „³σ „Ίσ …Ÿσ …”σ „Έσ …‚σ …§σ …“σ …ͺσ …Ÿσ …¦σ „Όσ „’σ „‘σ … σ …’σ …žσ …σ …₯σ …’σ …‡σ …œσ …₯σ …‘σ …‡σ „Ίσ … σ …”σ „Έσ „½σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ „Άσ …ͺσ …‘σ „³σ „©σ „³σ …‘σ …ˆσ …‚σ …šσ …’σ „’σ …œσ …₯σ …‰σ …ˆσ …†σ …šσ …“σ „’σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ˆσ …ƒσ „²σ …Ÿσ …σ „Άσ … σ …ƒσ „±σ „²σ …σ „²σ …†σ „΄σ …§σ …ƒσ ……σ „Άσ „·σ …‰σ …ˆσ „³σ „·σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …˜σ „±σ …‡σ „Άσ …ͺσ …•σ „»σ …€σ …’σ „Ήσ …œσ „±σ …©σ ……σ „΅σ …£σ …™σ „Όσ „Έσ …£σ …™σ …’σ …σ „©σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ ……σ …™σ „Ώσ …™σ „Ίσ …šσ …‰σ „’σ …‰σ „’σ „Ύσ …σ …‚σ …œσ …Šσ „·σ „Ύσ …™σ „½σ …šσ „Ύσ …σ …Šσ …‡σ ……σ „’σ „½σ „’σ …‰σ „ σ „Ώσ …„σ „΅σ …©σ …Šσ …šσ „½σ …©σ „Ύσ „΄σ …σ „€σ …‰σ …σ „Ήσ „€σ …‰σ …„σ …σ …ͺσ „Ώσ „΄σ „½σ „€σ „Ύσ …ͺσ „²σ …σ …‰σ …„σ …˜σ …™σ „½σ …šσ …“σ „£σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ήσ „’σ „½σ …ͺσ …›σ „ σ „Ύσ …„σ …—σ „€σ „½σ „’σ …‰σ …§σ …Šσ …šσ „½σ „£σ „Ώσ …‡σ „½σ „€σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ …Šσ „·σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ƒσ „Ήσ „¦σ „Ήσ …šσ „±σ …©σ „½σ „’σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ „·σ „½σ „’σ „½σ „’σ …Šσ …šσ …‰σ …šσ …›σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ …‰σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ „±σ „£σ …‰σ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ „‘σ …Šσ …„σ …†σ …œσ …Šσ …„σ …‰σ „ σ …Šσ …σ „΅σ „€σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ύσ …›σ „½σ …„σ „±σ „£σ …Šσ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ …Šσ …„σ ……σ „‘σ „Ώσ „΄σ …σ „£σ „½σ …σ „½σ „ σ …Šσ …‡σ „Ήσ „₯σ …‰σ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ …Šσ …‡σ …Šσ …˜σ „Ύσ „΄σ ……σ „₯σ …Šσ „³σ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …žσ …‚σ …˜σ …Šσ „£σ „½σ …™σ „Ώσ …œσ …€σ …”σ …–σ …†σ „‘σ …˜σ …‰σ „‘σ …—σ …˜σ „±σ …€σ …™σ …‰σ „Ίσ …Šσ …©σ …©σ „΄σ „©σ …˜σ …žσ „€σ …’σ …Ÿσ …σ „¨σ „©σ „Άσ …€σ …‚σ …†σ …ˆσ „΅σ „Ώσ …†σ „’σ „©σ …™σ …œσ …˜σ „€σ …‰σ „΄σ …£σ …˜σ „’σ …σ …›σ …—σ „Έσ …‘σ „³σ …σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …˜σ „±σ …σ „Άσ …ͺσ …•σ „»σ …€σ …’σ „Ήσ …œσ „±σ …©σ ……σ „΅σ …£σ …™σ „Όσ „Έσ …£σ …™σ …’σ …σ „©σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ ……σ …™σ „Ώσ …™σ „Ίσ …›σ „½σ …šσ …˜σ …™σ „½σ „΄σ „΅σ …©σ „Ύσ „’σ „Ήσ „’σ …Šσ …šσ …œσ …˜σ …Šσ …σ „΅σ …ͺσ …Šσ …šσ …“σ „‘σ …‰σ …šσ …‚σ …›σ …Šσ „·σ …Šσ …œσ „Ύσ „’σ ……σ „’σ „½σ …σ …†σ …œσ „Ύσ …‡σ „΅σ „£σ „½σ „΄σ „²σ …›σ „Ύσ …ͺσ „΅σ „‘σ „½σ „΄σ „½σ „’σ …‰σ …ͺ󠄢󠅛󠄾󠅝󠄢󠅙󠄽σ …ͺσ „Ήσ „‘σ „½σ …„σ „Ήσ „‘σ …‰σ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ …Šσ „΄σ …‰σ „’σ „½σ …„σ …†σ …˜σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ …Šσ „·σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ƒσ „Ήσ „¦σ „Ήσ …šσ „±σ …©σ „½σ „’σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ „·σ „½σ „’σ „½σ „’σ …Šσ …šσ …‰σ …šσ …›σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ …‰σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ „±σ „£σ …‰σ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ „‘σ …Šσ …„σ …†σ …œσ …Šσ …„σ …‰σ „ σ …Šσ …σ „΅σ „€σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ύσ …›σ „½σ …„σ „±σ „£σ …Šσ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ …Šσ …„σ ……σ „‘σ „Ώσ „΄σ …σ „£σ „½σ …σ „½σ „ σ …Šσ …‡σ „Ήσ „₯σ …‰σ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ …Šσ …‡σ …Šσ …˜σ „Ύσ „΄σ ……σ „₯σ …Šσ „³σ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …žσ …‚σ …˜σ …Šσ „£σ „½σ …™σ „Ώσ …œσ …€σ …”σ …–σ …†σ „‘σ …˜σ …‰σ „‘σ …—σ …˜σ „±σ …σ …ˆσ „‘σ …ˆσ „₯󠅄󠄧󠅔󠄑󠄸󠅁󠅓󠅁σ …₯σ …€σ …™σ …œσ „΅σ „Άσ „Όσ …’σ …£σ „»σ „‘σ …žσ „Άσ „Ίσ …†σ „Ήσ …“σ …‘σ „Έσ …–σ „¨σ …šσ „₯σ „¨σ „’σ „Ώσ „Ήσ …“σ …‰σ „σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …˜σ „³σ „·σ „Άσ …ͺσ …•σ „»σ …€σ …’σ „Ήσ …œσ „±σ …©σ ……σ „΅σ …£σ …™σ „Όσ „Έσ …£σ …™σ …’σ …σ „©σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ ……σ …™σ „Ώσ …™σ „Ήσ „’σ „Ύσ …ͺσ ……σ …¨σ „½σ …„σ „Ήσ „₯σ …‰σ …„σ „½σ …¨σ …Šσ …„σ …“σ „₯σ „Ώσ „·σ …‰σ „’σ …‰σ …ͺσ …Šσ …σ …Šσ …‡σ ……σ …§σ „Ύσ …„σ „²σ …œσ „Ώσ „·σ „΅σ …©σ „Ύσ …šσ „±σ …ͺσ …‰σ …„σ …˜σ …šσ „Ύσ „’σ „½σ „₯σ „Ώσ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ …¨σ „½σ …„σ …”σ …›σ …‰σ …„σ ……σ „‘σ …Šσ …σ ……σ „‘σ „½σ „΄σ ……σ …¨σ „½σ …‡σ …†σ …σ „Ύσ „΄σ …‚σ …œσ „Ώσ „΄σ …‰σ „€σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ …Šσ „·σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ƒσ „Ήσ „¦σ „Ήσ …šσ „±σ …©σ „½σ „’σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ „·σ „½σ „’σ „½σ „’σ …Šσ …šσ …‰σ …šσ …›σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ …‰σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ „±σ „£σ …‰σ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ „‘σ …Šσ …„σ …†σ …œσ …Šσ …„σ …‰σ „ σ …Šσ …σ „΅σ „€σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ύσ …›σ „½σ …„σ „±σ „£σ …Šσ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ …Šσ …„σ ……σ „‘σ „Ώσ „΄σ …σ „£σ „½σ …σ „½σ „ σ …Šσ …‡σ „Ήσ „₯σ …‰σ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ …Šσ …‡σ …Šσ …˜σ „Ύσ „΄σ ……σ „₯σ …Šσ „³σ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …žσ …‚σ …˜σ …Šσ „£σ „½σ …™σ „Ώσ …œσ …€σ …”σ …–σ …†σ „‘σ …˜σ …‰σ „‘σ …—σ …˜σ „±σ „₯σ …–σ …†σ …€σ …σ „€σ …šσ …ˆσ …•σ …žσ …‰σ „»σ „σ „»σ „Όσ „Έσ „¨σ „±σ …„σ …ƒσ „±σ …œσ …›σ „£σ …“σ …ͺσ …σ „Ώσ „Έσ …Ÿσ „΅σ „Ίσ …’σ „Ίσ …’σ …™σ „΄σ …‘σ …‘σ ……σ „©σ „»σ „Ύσ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …˜σ „΅σ „·σ „Άσ …ͺσ …•σ „»σ …€σ …’σ „Ήσ …œσ „±σ …©σ ……σ „΅σ …£σ …™σ „Όσ „Έσ …£σ …™σ …’σ …σ „©σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ ……σ …™σ „Ώσ …™σ „Ίσ …˜σ …‰σ …‡σ …‰σ …¨σ …Šσ …šσ …›σ „€σ „Ύσ „΄σ …—σ „€σ …Šσ „·σ ……σ „ σ „Ύσ …„σ …‚σ …σ …Šσ …šσ …—σ „€σ …‰σ …ͺσ ……σ …§σ „½σ …„σ „±σ …ͺσ „Ύσ …„σ …œσ …›σ „½σ „΄σ …”σ …˜σ …Šσ „΄σ „½σ …¨σ „Ύσ …σ „Άσ …šσ …Šσ …„σ …‰σ …¨σ …Šσ „΄σ …σ „₯σ …‰σ …σ ……σ „’σ …‰σ …„σ „Άσ …›σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ „’σ „Ύσ …‡σ „Ύσ …œσ „½σ „΄σ …σ „£σ …Šσ …„σ …“σ …¨σ „Ύσ …„σ …œσ …›σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ …Šσ „·σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ƒσ „Ήσ „¦σ „Ήσ …šσ „±σ …©σ „½σ „’σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ „·σ „½σ „’σ „½σ „’σ …Šσ …šσ …‰σ …šσ …›σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ …‰σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ „±σ „£σ …‰σ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ „‘σ …Šσ …„σ …†σ …œσ …Šσ …„σ …‰σ „ σ …Šσ …σ „΅σ „€σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ύσ …›σ „½σ …„σ „±σ „£σ …Šσ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ …Šσ …„σ ……σ „‘σ „Ώσ „΄σ …σ „£σ „½σ …σ „½σ „ σ …Šσ …‡σ „Ήσ „₯σ …‰σ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ …Šσ …‡σ …Šσ …˜σ „Ύσ „΄σ ……σ „₯σ …Šσ „³σ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …žσ …‚σ …˜σ …Šσ „£σ „½σ …™σ „Ώσ …œσ …€σ …”σ …–σ …†σ „‘σ …˜σ …‰σ „‘σ …—σ …˜σ „±σ …£σ …€σ …σ …Ÿσ „±σ …¨σ „Ήσ ……σ …†σ „Άσ …™σ …—σ „Ώσ „Έσ „»σ …£σ …ˆσ …œσ …€σ „’σ „·σ …‘σ „©σ …•σ …šσ …›σ „Όσ …σ …šσ „Ώσ „½σ „§σ …†σ „Ώσ „¨σ … σ …„σ …‚σ „Άσ …§σ „²σ … σ „½σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …˜σ „·σ „³σ „²σ …˜σ …“σ „£σ …™σ …’σ …‡σ …©σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ …œσ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α΄›Κœα΄‡ α΄…α΄‡α΄€α΄›Κœ ᴏꜰ α΄ΚŸα΄‡α΄‹α΄œ's avatar
α΄›Κœα΄‡ α΄…α΄‡α΄€α΄›Κœ ᴏꜰ α΄ΚŸα΄‡α΄‹α΄œ me@mleku.dev 5 months ago
this concept of self-sovereign identity is not common on the internet. it's used with SSH, and a small amount of TLS works from this basis. the DNS roots are sovereign in as far as a small number of individuals have the secret to sign stuff, and this is why it's robust. the rest of the internet tho. they don't care. in my fiat mine job, we are working with several blockchains and fortunately two of them that we work with the users' signatures are generated locally by the users, albeit with the help of this "web3auth" system which binds access to a secret key to an email address. we are integrating another chain, an ethereium fork sponsored by Sony, and the web3 devs in charge of that yet again chose a non-self-sovereign identity scheme whereby the secret bound to a user's email related identity depends on a smart contract to ... idk even how this is considered secure... but the smart contract signs their events. i haven't implemented the prescribed API call to that SC to verify the signatures, and as such, an important but minor attack vector on our users is currently open because the server i built isn't validating the signatures. but this is a bad thing. and its a very bad design to shift authentication inwards to the centre of a network system. authority to sign events should be on the edge, this is what "self sovereign identity" means. the history of hacks on central authentication systems is extensive. why people keep building them is beyond me.
1 replies ↓
Garbage nsec's avatar
Garbage nsec garbagensec@NostrAddress.com 5 months ago
Agree. We were trying to think of a term for it for some of our internal stuff, "end of the road authority" is our placeholder, but "authority on the edge" also works. That alone, if well done, is something. Circling back, many of Nostr's problems come from trying to have global-state features without paying the global-state price and then getting slapped around by the debt collector (network physics). The clobbering of replaceable events like follow lists is the perfect illustration of this. Network physics is like "Did you pay the price for this little global state you're trying to sneak in here?" and the kind3 event spec is like "umm.. no..." and then it's the baseball bat again.
fiatjaf's avatar
fiatjaf _@fiatjaf.com 5 months ago
I like this. I think Damus also displays the zaps like that, right @jb55? But does your client make it so people only read replies from that specific relay? Because I think that's a step in the path to solving spam.
3 replies ↓
vinney...axkl's avatar
vinney...axkl vcavallo@vinneycavallo.com 5 months ago
I don't think there shouldn't be servers, I just think every person should be running one. the community relays should also exist, but relays count should > npub count since every npub has a relay. those personal relays might act like aggregators for whatever that person is interested in, so the "50 people" you follow at their personal relay gets you content from many more sources.
Niel Liesmons's avatar
Niel Liesmons 5 months ago
Yup 🎯 Apps reading from a set of relays defined by the Communities (or the App's goal). Solves the global state problem too, at the local community level.
1 replies ↓
Laeserin πŸ‡»πŸ‡¦'s avatar
Laeserin πŸ‡»πŸ‡¦ laeserin@theforest.nostr1.com 5 months ago
We have community relays (theforest and thecitadel) and I integrate the person's local relays, and we have a set of non-spammy relays like aggr.nostr.land and nostr.wine, that I use to include npubs that aren't on our relays, but are on someone's lists (I just include all lists, including follow lists, and there's a filter where they can select which ones to include.)
Laeserin πŸ‡»πŸ‡¦'s avatar
Laeserin πŸ‡»πŸ‡¦ laeserin@theforest.nostr1.com 5 months ago
The novelty is that I let you post notes as zaps, on a relay you normally can't write to. TheForest is closed to any npub who isn't whitelisted, but you can zap your way into the feed. It's also interesting because people can like, comment on, repost, highlight, or zap your zap. Or report it. πŸ˜… It just looks like a reply. I've also thought about using zaps to upvote replies, into the zaps list, at the top. Like, cumulate the zaps. Then people could vote for the replies they like best, with money. I'm experimenting with making zaps more functional, basically.
1 replies ↓
Captain's Nostr Log's avatar
Captain's Nostr Log _@thecaptain.dev 5 months ago
I was a firm believer in this a few months ago, but I've relaxed on it recently because current WoT systems rely so heavily on the follow list. I'm not sure I would want to outsource that source of trust entirely to relays
1 replies ↓
Laeserin πŸ‡»πŸ‡¦'s avatar
Laeserin πŸ‡»πŸ‡¦ laeserin@theforest.nostr1.com 5 months ago
Yeah, I've never gotten the concept of using relays full of people I don't like. We are allow-oriented. * Everyone on the community relays is allowed. * People on your lists, or events from query results, are also allowed. (We pull those from "fallback" relays.) * Events from your local relays are also allowed.
1 replies ↓
α΄›Κœα΄‡ α΄…α΄‡α΄€α΄›Κœ ᴏꜰ α΄ΚŸα΄‡α΄‹α΄œ's avatar
α΄›Κœα΄‡ α΄…α΄‡α΄€α΄›Κœ ᴏꜰ α΄ΚŸα΄‡α΄‹α΄œ me@mleku.dev 5 months ago
as i see it, the issue is about UX subscribing, or blocking seeing events from authors is simple enough, but it doesn't assign trust, or distrust. it does, sorta, but sorta doesn't. the problem is about how do you impute trust without burdening the user with excessive input on every single one of them to add at least one bit of trust/distrust value to it i think the solution is that you analyse the user's interactions, and assign a score based on which of their follows they respond to the most, and from that, you have a much better proxy for trust, without adding complexity to the UI. it also has analytical uses in the sense that you can define a filter that selects from the data gleaned from some specified set of users, and then modulates that based on their interaction levels with them and sets a threshold or a probability of including a given event in a feed as defined by that group. this group can also then be defined by the user's own follow and interaction history. if there was an algorithm that i would like to have on my feed, that would be it
1 replies ↓
STERRY's avatar
STERRY 5 months ago
How do you mean and why? For certain use cases it's helpful no doubt.
Default avatar
npub1llus...uqgh 5 months ago
The penny has dropped. Following subjects, as well as people. Payment channels. Developers channels. Permitted to censure others, without being booted off the platform. A self help through sharing experiences . A marketplace. This is the anything, everything platform. All under the umbrella of free speech. Feasible and its happening. I fucking love Nostr.
Niel Liesmons's avatar
Niel Liesmons 5 months ago
Yup. It's the UX around all of this "allowing" that I'm still working out rn.
fiatjaf's avatar
fiatjaf _@fiatjaf.com 5 months ago
This is good, now we just need a way to quickly browse relay feeds by clicking on them, seeing recommended relay feeds from friends, publishing to a single relay with NIP-70.
1 replies ↓
fiatjaf's avatar
fiatjaf _@fiatjaf.com 5 months ago
When are we going to fragment the internet? Is that like that thing in which we all had to jump at the same time to move the earth and prevent global warming?
1 replies ↓
kyle's avatar
kyle kyle@kyledesana.xyz 5 months ago
We'll be adding Nostr to Siftree soon, allowing you to browse a feed of topics across relays. That way it's easier to find the cluster of content you're most interested in. Will be changing our auth too
Karadenizli's avatar
Karadenizli 4 months ago
There needs to be a new type of interface with relays that can request various feeds from a single relay. A relay operator may want to have multiple different feeds for different users. I don't think it makes sense to expect much curation when asking a relay for its entire recent database. Sure, this can be solved by relay software that runs multiple relay fronts behind the scenes, but IMO there needs to be a way to request a list of curated feeds from a relay. There needs to be some way to differentiate between a firehose feed and a curated feed, with relays being able to provide both in a way thats easier and more discoverable than a separate subdomain for each feed.
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