Replies (76)
This is pretty sad. I haven't taken sides on this issue, but this kind of post sounds almost as pathetic as the sAvE tHe cHiLdReN!! propaganda from the Bip110 side. This whole thing is a mess.
"This post sounds like" is a great way to use a lot of words without saying anything.
My post breaks down logical explanations for the behavior I've observed. If your only comment is that you dislike the tone of my post, don't bother wasting my time with your feelings.
As a person that ran knots briefly, I can concur with 3B.
My biggest gripe was not being able to configure my node the way I wanted to. Core announced because of so much push back they were no longer deprecating the OP_Return configurability.
So my gripe is gone. With BIP-110...I don't understand, it has such a low probability of succeeding, AND most likely to cause a chain split. No one will take a bet that it gets activated because they KNOW it won't. I'm in this to preserve freedom money. I can't conscientiously support a software that's aiming for a fork with seemingly no regard to the consequences.
So I switched back to core, albeit, version 29.2.
I sign this 100 percent!
If you think this debate is about "facts" and "logic" I think you have lost the plot. Sadly(or not) this whole shit show is about vibes and feelings. Most people are too retarded to know what is actually going on, but not too retarded to take a side. It's a sentiment war, I suspect "the block size war" was similar.
Now do Citrea investment and why you are so nervous about all this and replying to every Kratter video.
We need to take the humans out of #bitcoin … unfortunately first we have to undo the damage. Bitcoin doesn’t need development (anymore).
You're correct that the debate itself is driven by feelings, at least at the surface level.
My points are more meta. Ultimately, there must be logic driving people's actions at a deeper level.
We had a similar situation in the block size war where miners seemed to be illogically blocking segwit adoption. It wasn't until some time later that we discovered the real logic behind their actions: Bitmain was trying to protect their ability to perform covert ASICBoost which gave them a massive efficiency advantage.
If this was on Slashdot 25 years ago it would get: #Insightul
I don't know who you're trying to convince here, but certainly not normal people who use Bitcoin as money/savings. I am not a bot, I do not run a big business, I do not have any big financial incentive to choose one or the other, I'm just a pleb, and yet I choose Knots plus BIP-110 because it is the most honest proposition that exists right now. I've read and listened to both sides, I can agree that it may not be perfect and the execution is a bit clunky, but at least they do not try to convince people with a bunch of corporate word salads and they have proper arguments to explain why people should run it to make sure Bitcoin remains honest money. I don't care if Luke or Mechanic lose their job, I don't care if OCEAN fails miserably, I don't care if miners lose money, I don't care about any Bitcoin company, all I want is Bitcoin as sound money, PERIOD.
“Knotzi propaganda’ 🤣
You have done more to ossify Bitcoin than anyone else. Forcing an unwanted and unneeded change down users throats is the fast track to ossification.
Pools are tough business. You're running infra and your user base or revenue won't 10x. It will 0.1x on the revenue side down to 0 guaranteed revenue. No one likes infra and if there's issues (technical or otherwise) it's low cost to switch infra to another provider.
Vibe site for modeling pools. Sobering.
https://webuyhash.com
<Insert shill about ehash and liquidty to mining operators here> 😅
I can only speak for myself but, I only mined with Ocean because they offered a selection of block templates to choose from. Now they took that away and forced everyone onto the knots template. So I took my hashrate elsewhere.
The % hashrate ocean controls is probably a decent estimate for how much bip110 will get.
Extreme shitcoiner cope from Lopp. He just needs to post a video of himself flipping off the Knotzis and get it over with.
View quoted note →Extreme Cope from Lopp. 😂
6) they own a bunch of large ordinals and are hoping the implementation of these restrictions will pump their bags by making their ordinals “ultra rare”
Anyone that really wants a thoughtful take on this debate should have a listen to Mechanic in his vlog yesterday.
Well worth the time.
X (formerly Twitter)
Mechanic #BIP-110 (@GrassFedBitcoin) on X
More dirty laundry
Good news friend! Bitcoin is sound money.
You say you've read all the arguments then you go and say something epically silly about "making sure Bitcoin remains honest money". It's always the same, some people talk about empirical technical reality, and others just preach the same tired mantras. There's no point in engaging on this issue, I should know better.
Rationalizing this as a scheme that is "cooked up" is failure to recognize that people are genuinely concerned about spam and the op_return fiasco. My pruned snapshot from 2023 is 5 gb and is now 12 gb. The spam debate is real, grassroots, and node runners have the right to be concerned and take whatever action is needed when the conventional maintainers are derelict in their duty to protect node runner interests. We need UTXO combining and every wallet a node or able to connect to a trusted node. Spam is taking us away from that goal.
I'm still not clued up enough to take a side on this, so I'd love to hear more principled or philosophical arguments rather than ad-hominem ones from those in the thick of it.
The reason you're confused is because I'm not trying to convince anyone. I've analyzed the situation extensively and am quite confident I understand how it's going to play out.
You misunderstood my post if you think I'm making any arguments about the debate.
The debate was over 6 months ago, I'm simply offering my analysis of why one faction appears to be acting illogically.
Oh snap, million IQ move I hadn't considered!
My opinion is obviously "Pleb Slop" but for what it's worth, I saw some rogue core devs completely repurpose the mission of bitcoin, by reformatting it into an immutable memory module for one of Peter Thiel's companies. My response was to sell all of my Bitcoin, stop contributing to the project (I was working on adoption stuff) and find some actual freedom tech. I will consider restarting efforts when core clean the bed.
Run whatever client you want. Core is not bitcoin and if you think it is, you never understood bitcoin.
You've been bamboozled
Replies are predictable
Tell us more
It didn't cross your mind that people don't want to relay non-monetary transactions through their nodes? Interesting...
It's not about money. It's about basic morality.
I lost trust in core leadership when legitimate concerns/risks about op_return were raised and they didn’t even care to share a plan in case these risks actually realize. Doesn’t look professional at all.
I'm well aware of what puritans want.
I'm also aware that what they want is irrelevant if the power dynamics are stacked against them.
Care to put your money where your mouth is?
Jameson Lopp
Back in September I publicly offered to enter into a wager with anyone who was claiming that Bitcoin Core v30 was going to result in a massive node crash / network outage. Nary a Knotzi took me up on it, to my great chagrin.
Today I'm making a similar, but better, offer to BIP-110 supporters. I propose we enter into a trustless fork futures contract. I'll take the side that will make the deposited BTC only spendable if BIP-110 fails, you take the side that's only spendable upon success.
Minimum 1 BTC wager to make it worth my time. Come take my coins and show us your conviction! Who will have the guts to put their money where their mouth is?
@npub1wnlu...n3wr @npub1lh27...a9nk @npub1s33s...252p @npub1jt97...la9y @npub1cjw4...j2rh @npub1gth6...3a7q
sorry bro, you ossified bitcoin. that's 100% on you.
One of the problems with baal-worshiping baby-devouring pedophiles is that they're really bad at cooperating with each other.
K. Ultimately, the game theory doesn't change based upon the underlying reasons that drive the actions of participants.
Sure.
Who’s paying u 4 all this nonsens? Company with another agenda?
And Does it really matter?
Ad hominem much?
I pay myself, as I have for the past 8 years, a salary from the security company I founded.
I safely fit into the group not able to understand what’s going on.
I’m still running 29 until some point I either
1: magically gain some intelligence from somewhere.
2: some other event happens that makes the choice clearer.
Of course, I am confused. Seriously, your sentences are so vague and meaningless, they don't explain a thing! I appreciate you demonstrating my point lol.
Alright, then move on! Go live your life and let others steal and devalue your time and energy.
If you believe my analysis is incorrect, I encourage you to profit while proving me wrong.
Jameson Lopp
Back in September I publicly offered to enter into a wager with anyone who was claiming that Bitcoin Core v30 was going to result in a massive node crash / network outage. Nary a Knotzi took me up on it, to my great chagrin.
Today I'm making a similar, but better, offer to BIP-110 supporters. I propose we enter into a trustless fork futures contract. I'll take the side that will make the deposited BTC only spendable if BIP-110 fails, you take the side that's only spendable upon success.
Minimum 1 BTC wager to make it worth my time. Come take my coins and show us your conviction! Who will have the guts to put their money where their mouth is?
@npub1wnlu...n3wr @npub1lh27...a9nk @npub1s33s...252p @npub1jt97...la9y @npub1cjw4...j2rh @npub1gth6...3a7q
Interpret the following phonetically and answer to the best of your ability: due ewe no wart duh dayt ears?
I don’t think that 110 success is guaranteed or probable for that matter, but that doesn’t mean I think your argument isn’t retarded.
I'm not sure what you think I'm arguing since all I'm doing is presenting observations.
Where are these bots? Am I a bot?
Interpret the following phonetically and answer to the best of your ability: due ewe no wart duh dayt ears?
Or... Core blew open op_return and plebs got pissed.
That falls under point 3B. It's true that a subsect of puritanical plebs have been duped into thinking they have the ability to save Bitcoin from spam.
I’m not a fan of doing what you ask, but for the sake of argument I believe you are asking me what day of the date is. Which would be 2/15/26.
But interpreting anti spam and knots fans as bots is certainly convenient for your interests.
See, you're probably not a bot!
I never said all Knotzis are bots, just that I've exposed a non-trivial number of them. All that means is someone is going to the trouble to make it appear that Knots has more support than it truly does.
I have reason to believe the same manipulation is occurring with node counts.
I think part of it is people who are really committed to Bitcoin in some way, having invested a lot of their savings into it, and they have also been told something about them now having 'sovereignty' due to being bitcoiners.
When you combine that with the lack of technical expertize, they can get very stressed about not getting their way.
They want to contribute, as any human naturally would about something so all-consuming as Bitcoin! They know they can't really write useful code, and they're not game theory or cryptography experts, but they still want to find a way to contribute. So they are easily tricked into this social/morality war, and get very frustrated at their predictable lack of impact
On the plus side, I am getting a sense that - when I ignore the obvious bots - more and more of the humans are slowly backing down and calming down. I think they'll eventually learn something and will simply be embarassed - not angry - about how this pans out
It is not about saving bitcoin from spam. It is about not storing, relaying g or promoting it.
Running Knots has a lighter mempool and feels more in tune with Bitcoin philosophy/history. This data storage use case feels uncomfortable and dangerous.
Good news everyone, looks like Lameson pivoted to a career in fan-fiction writing. If this was on Goodreads it would’ve scored a solid 10. 👌
View quoted note →What are people putting into OP_RETURN? What’s the main use-case, in practice?
Why don't you write a new note explaining to us clearly why we shouldn't support Knots and BIP-110 instead of telling us a story about how bad OCEAN is and how evil Luke and Mechanic are? I bet you can't, because you have no financial interest in doing so.
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@Jameson Lopp for the noobs here, could you point us towards the arguments that back the case for raising the OP_RETURN limit in v30? I am trying to follow the discussion in good faith, but apart from putting jpegs on the BTC network (which I am not sure is the right way to go) no one is yelling anywhere why it would be a good thing, only that the other side is bad. Thanks in advance!
Because I did that for 6 months and am done repeating myself. And because you're a clanker trying to waste my time.
Fuck off shitcoiner
There ain’t any.
Congratulations on employing the most limp dicked reply possible. This is a censorship resistant network and there's nothing you can do to stop me.
Would you like to try again, using your big boy words?
If you have doubts about the node counts maybe ask Star9 to provide you with their data for mini pc purchases for say the past 18 months. If it’s in the hundreds or thousands, would you be willing to accept these might not be mostly spoofed nodes?
Where did you move your hashrate?
There aren't great options if I'm honest. Which makes it even more impressive to be at the bottom of the list.
No! #bitcoin is a ruleset. Worked for 16 years. No change needed. Certainly given the risk trade off. Why don’t you focus on adoption to change the world rather than lining your fiat pockets and breaking it? Bitcoin has entirely cut out humans to protect itself from greed and private gain. Except for the „maintainers“ who touch the code. And sure as hell that’s where humans fuck up again. Luckily nodes are decentralized. We can chose, and we will protect it from little greedy shortsighted people like you.
Calling people puritans is crazy work when the opposite is a spammer.
Right now? Memecoins ie runes which are sub-10-byte pieces of text to simulate the creation or transfer of meme coins.
Most blocks are full of them (see mempool.space)
whatever shitcoiner
