are there nostr clients out there that completely ignore Bitcoin?
I wonder if pushing Bitcoin so much is why we aren't growing
I know it's hard to believe but many people think Bitcoin is stupid
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Replies (74)
The Monero Amethyst fork? π
Oh the one that tags me everytime I say retard, my favorite one
i like to see the different perspectives explored even though i come from a bitcoiner perspective personally
I mean, you could achieve that with amethyst and a muted words list.
I do think the 'default' nostr experience leans heavily into bitcoin, and probably more importantly heavily right-leaning and slightly conspiratorial.
But I don't think this is the reason anyway.
Compared to Twitter seems pretty centrist from my perspective, but we are so polarized these days everything looks extreme depending where you stand I suppose
I've found a pretty good balance of people. I like to keep a few on either extremes to keep me well informed. As for the bitcoin-centric-ness of the app... I mean.. that might be like this for a while.
I think change resistance, leaving where their friends and family are, and general naive (or willful) ignorance on censorship + data custody are the bigger forces at play over Bitcoin association.
That fork ... Garnet ... integrates both Bitcoin and Monero, so not ignoring Bitcoin completely
I donβt see the problem.
Donβt want to see poor spam
He has seen the light! If Nostr is going to grow in being a freedom tool. He needs to highlight and show why Nostr matters to non-bitcoiners.
Bitcoin isn't stupid. The people are stupid
I have muted bitcoin before of specific clients just to test and itβs crickets. So quiet that I have thought I think the client is broken because I havenβt received anything in my feed in 6 or 8 hours.
Yikes
Pollerama
Polls On Nostr!
Iβm here for the signal. I could make an X account if I wanted noise.
Bitcoiners understand what Nostr represents and put up with the understandable chinks as new freedom technology is bootstrapped, much like the adoption of Bitcoin itself. Itβs a curse, itβs in our nature to be early to these paradigm shifts. Personally Iβm just enjoying the new Bitcoin Twitter while it lasts. I love it how it is but Normies will need this thing to be prime time (unless theyβre forced into using it early). Nostr needs time to blossom, itβs not a bad thing imo
I think goldbugs and sound money people are close cousins to bitcoiners. And if sound money people havenβt adopted nostr in the past two years. Then the idea of getting βinfluencersβ, content creators, or your everyday boomer on Nostr is a decade away.
My recommendation would be allow content creators and users to pick their currency of choice. I think clients giving users the choice of currency would lead to higher adoption faster. I would think many content creators who live outside the west would rather be paid in a currency other than BTC.
I actually agree with this. And when we roll out Satlantis in the next couple months, itβs going to be a big part of the approach.
Didn't know that. Thanks.
Releasing a gaming focused nostr client (game mods specifically) in the, hopefully, next 1-3 months. @DEG Mods
I will launch one soon, not because bitcoin won't make it better, but because it is not on the top of my priority list.
I'd rather Monero be part of it, alongside BTC and BCH. Add to that some form of gold and silver, and you're doing good there.
Most people who think #Bitcoin is stupid aren't going to put up with the shit I put up with as a Nostr user. That's just reality. I only get Nostr because I get Bitcoin. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't be using it either. Maybe growth in numbers in an arbitrary timeframe isn't as important of a metric as you think. The whole point from my perspective is opt-in freedom software. Not everyone cares about freedom, and those who do may never make it here unless certain big names do after being booted from most/all of the centralized platforms. People don't tend to make changes or deal with things like Nostr until they have to. It isn't even ready for average users in my opinion. It would likely cause more damage than good for the average Joe to use this stuff with how buggy and relatively complicated it is for them right now.
I'm also curious as to how you think a lot more users will be paid for. People aren't exactly conditioned to pay for relays or even know what relays are. It isn't clear to me what the experience would be like if a lot of people hopped on quickly. Especially if none of them understand Bitcoin values like paying for freedom tools, private keys, etc.
Overloading the free relays doesn't seem like a sustainable alternative to slow growth while the entire model is figured out.
In my experience discussing NOSTR and Bitcoin with USA Normies is that they recognize a need and benefit for Bitcoin but don't see it for NOSTR.
However, everyone feels the financial strain today. The number that feel censorship is much less. NOSTR will have to be all around easier and better to use than any other existing software before someone switches.
I think if clients did a better job on relay discovery, we already have enough compute to serve tens of millions of users
Like I doubt Twitter has hundreds of servers but we already have hundreds of relays.
One relay operator can serve thousands of users for just like $10+$20/month
Agree. People will opt in when they recognize the need to. Same as Bitcoin
I recently tried to get someone reasonably freedom minded to try out Nostr. His experience was that it just seemed dead.
Without a "For You" feed you have to put a lot more work in to curating a feed.
His experience was loading Damus, clicking on the search tab, seeing the "suggested hashtags", the top hastag was bitcoin but then under it it said "4 users talking about this". He then concluded that nostr was totally dead and it was just 4 bitcoin bros talking to each other.
I think a better job needs to be done in note and user discovery.
I think that could change depending upon what the users are doing. In my experience, most Bitcoiners are mostly using text. A lot of normies are expecting Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, etc and that gets really expensive quickly. Number of relays isn't necessarily the important metric. It's the resources required to keep all of this up. You say 'just like' as if someone is just going to pay that for millions of people for nothing. We just end up right back with centralization, spying, ads and the old world bullshit if people don't understand the principles that got us here. At which point we just end up with a segment of Nostr that's probably smaller than we are now and a segment running relays owned by Facebook. Is that better? Maybe, but we need a better financial model and a lot of kinks worked out before trying to dump millions of normies onto Nostr. Most people aren't even using password managers. Lol Understanding, protecting and using private keys is just going to rek and frustrate a lot of people. And there are other kinks and things people just won't understand. Nostr was never going to replace everything in a couple years.
We haven't even convinced all Bitcoiners to come onboard yet. That doesn't convince me that normies will deal with the headaches and learning curve at this point.
Fair enough
Most people wouldn't put up with the incessant slogans and posts about the price of bitcoin changing and general almost monotopic content here. Let's be real lol. It's easier to imagine the technical side being resolved than it is to imagine a change in culture Β―β \β _β (β γβ )β _β /β Β―
Nostr is not yet a 10x or 100x better experience than twitter (or bigtech app Z).
Interoperability is lacking, and a 10x or 100x experience is neither delivered by a single app, nor a combination of apps.
Sam already mentioned Nos.social. Also Openvibe (used to be Plebstr). They had zaps as Plebstr, but since they rebranded and relaunched as Openvibe they donβt.
getwired.app doesnβt get a lot of bitcoin yapping
I'm strongly anti-bitcoin but pro-FOSS, pro-decentralization, pro-free-speech, etc
More people like you please, please bring your friends
I'm a goldbug and I don't care about zips on posts
I'm here for the FOSS uncensorable flow of information
I think Elon Musk taking over Twitter dot com (and giving it a veneer of free speech) is the biggest setback for truly FOSS social media (because normies have a familiar & popular experience which purports to cater to that need)
But just wait for that veneer to wear thin...
Itβs a mixture of things but thatβs one of them.
Yes, i picked a client without any Bitcoin tie-ins. I feel like a minority on Nostr.
Well you are most welcomed here and glad to have you π«
1. Disable Zaps
2. Mute #bitcoin hashtag
3. Profit?
I find it interesting that one could allegedly be for those things and then be the exact opposite on money. And if you just mean that you support Monero or some other alternative that isn't fiat, then it doesn't really matter. Just substitute that and my points remain the same.
If you support Fiat then you simply hold irrational contradictions. Fiat is not FOSS, decentralized, nor pro-free speech by nature of the aforementioned and force to implement it.
I can understand that some people don't want to mix money and social media or whatever use case, but that's just hippie bullshit. Money has to be involved somewhere. The difference is that some Nostr clients just make it explicitly clear and give users a way to support one another instead of the dominant model of centralized control that turns users into the product. I use the zap button instead of a 'like' button to support things I get value from.
No client is forcing people to adopt the value for value model. The bigger issue seems to be that certain people don't like that many Nostr users are Bitcoiners. Sorry, but those principles and people are what have fostered this. It certainly wasn't the fiat and Twitter maxis.
I don't buy that Bitcoin is keeping people off of Nostr. Most people simply don't value freedom or at least don't show it in their actions.
I suggest the opposite, to go more all-in on Bitcoin. Use Nostr beyond a medium for media, and make a layer 2 open decentralized protocol for Bitcoin/fiat exchanging
I remember when people thought the internet, text messaging, and cell phones were stupid. Bitcoin was not to blame at that time due to the lack of existing. I would recommend patience.
π―
I like metal discs
I am developing a client myself which will not have any money-related feature (counting Bitcoin in "money" in this), so there will be.
("Developing", not "have developed". It's WIP).
Mute the hashtag to achieve a feed full of Bitcoin stuff but without the hashtag.
"Bit" what?
are there nostr clients out there that completely ignore Bitcoin?
I wonder if pushing Bitcoin so much is why we aren't growing
I know it's hard to believe but many people think Bitcoin is stupid
View quoted note →
itΒ΄s getting better & easier to use step by step...
in #europe there will be more control by the goverments,
more censorship, less discussion, no freespeach anymore,
chatcontrol etc. here in #germany politics plan to analyze your thoughts from the content you post.... terrible plans.
but you are right... masses donΒ΄t care about their freedom
anymore... alls others will use #nostr
That many people talk about nothing other than bitcoin certainly is going to turn people away. Im all for btc, but all the btc talk is annoying as fuck. Its a circle jerk echo chamber and quite boring. Talking about money all the time is quite the normie thing to do.
The problem isn't the bitcoin talk itself. The problem is that no client as of yet has been good enough to segment content accoridng to users intersts enough.
Someone interested in gardening content, would see anything else as spam.
Blasphemy!
Ever heard of 
?
Mostro.network
NO-KYC P2P Lightning trading on nostr
I think the problem isnβt the zapping but more that the content thatβs posted being heavily bitcoin related
Maybe we donβt need to grow that fast? Thereβs still so much to work out and improve. Not sure weβre ready for mass adoption yet.
Those that reject it because of bitcoin will later come back because of bitcoin.
Nostr is about freedom. So is bitcoin. Id question whether trying to forcefully separate them has value or is even possible.
*reads note*
*gets defensive*
*checks account name*
Oh... hmmmm.
*checks his own reaction*
Oh.... hmmmm.
You, uh, might have a point.
Alexandria is just books, but someone could write a book mentioning Bitcoin.
We're going to have a Biblestr version of it that only does Bibles. That sort of topic curation is going to be big. Much more effective than muting words.
But the internet and cell phones are actually stupid, and so far people only like text messaging on stupid platforms. Will patience show people being smart?
Absolutely. Iβm afraid its too monolithic in nature. Its not really any different from RoboSat and I donβt see how itβll get more liquidity than RoboSat
People don't pay for a lot of stuff that seems to work just fine anyways. Think about Tor nodes, many open source programs which don't take donations (some of which quite relevant) and a lot more that people do, even outside of software.
Of course, figuring out ways to get more money would be beneficial, but the lack of payments doesn't prevent many services from existing.
Running a relay with reasonable policies doesn't have to be very expensive. It will cost some money, but it's one way to further the fundamental human right to freedom of speech, not much different than many other kinds of volunteering or donating to a good cause.
There are also plenty of nonprofit organizations, many of which have the defense of human rights (including freedom of speech) as one of their stated goals. Running a relay might fully align with their activities and not be a large portion of their budget.
> A lot of normies are expecting Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, etc and that gets really expensive quickly.
No, it doesn't get expensive because most of these users are failing to decentralize the storage of images and videos anyways, and merely linking to them.
Links are text, no more expensive than any other kind of text.
There is still an advantage in sharing links this way because, although the linked assets are not resilient, one's audience is and if some hosts start censoring stuff one won't have to rebuild their following, one can just use a different host for new images.
> Money has to be involved somewhere.
Why?
People can do things for reasons other than money.
Personally, what makes my Nostr feed rather uninteresting, to me, isn't the fact that my feed is filled with posts related to Bitcoin (or any other cryptocurrency, or any other decentralized means for economical transactions), specifically, but rather the fact that it is mostly about money.
If most posts were about euros, or US dollars, or whatever other fiat currency, and some of the most discussed features in clients about monetary transactions, I would also hold that as one clear reason many wouldn't be many wouldn't be willing to join.
That stance wouldn't be anti-fiat, per se, and although @a source familiar with the matter is anti-Bitcoin, saying that the Bitcoin focus is what drives people away from Nostr isn't anti-Bitcoin, in itself.
What client do you use?
Also, you have my follow for not being a Bitcoin-centered account.
That would be a very narrow minded person imho :)
I'm interested in everything from #astronomy to #carpentry. Why wouldn't you be. Life is about #experience; lots of them, as many as possible before the race is run :)
I use a Monero centered client called Garnet but it doesn't gut out lightning zaps, just adds xmr zaps in addition
Choice and free markets π
Use only one, or use both, the user can do what they want
Oooo, cool
I'd like an onboarding experience that doesn't suggest bitcoiners, rather interests, and connects to relays and folks who share those interests.
whats it called? Web app?