Replies (106)
for point3 China do arrest open source dev if criminals using that software
Sad sad
base layer privacy
Telegram always glowed like a honeytrap to me. It masquerades as privacy/freedom tech, but it is not so.
To your last point about where to allocate capital: Invest in content creators and/or users who migrate to freedom tech. The lack of algorithm-fueled dopamine hits will leave the average user bored and cause a loss of interest. Engagement, zaps, interesting content, and easy onboarding will make a "normie migration" far more likely. Nostr is currently a giant circle of jerks pontificating about bitcoin, crypto, and like this post, freedom tech. Platforms like this need content creators who bring diverse ideas and opinions to create real conversation. Sponsoring (paying) content creators whom you may disagree with, but who already have a following, to come on protocols like nostr will drive a network effect of engagement and adoption.
And hey, you may get more #bitcoin adoption while you're at it.
Telegram does not encrypt group chats and ignores basic human decency when it comes to criminal activity that goes on in that platform. For example, you have people who are actively trafficking humans there and Telegram will do NOTHING about it even though they can read every message and see every photo traded. At best they provide an email to report it and rarely ban offenders. Then they brag about it like it’s a good thing.
I’m sure that was it. What im trying to say is… if it was encrypted and you didn’t have access to it. Fine. Hey Law Enforcement, we don’t have any information but here is the metadata we do have. A different story is when you have a legitimate law enforcement agency telling you children are being trafficked, you go LOOK and see “hey they’re right” and you do nothing about it. That is unacceptable. Might as well be the Silk Road at this point.
A) Lyn asked explicitly where to allocate capital.
B) Do you not want to grow grow grow the number of users of bitcoin and other freedom tech?
C) Do you not consider bitcoin a form of money money money?
D) You're clearly a far superior person, especially among bitcoiners, and should be revered as a leader in any space you venture into.
I've often wondered how exactly criminals are able to thrive on there so easily. Telegram is an absolute gold mine of hacked data, pretty much out in the open.
Man they acting like something to cheer like a nostr win they dummies are exhausting to be honest!
Nostr fixes what lmao 🤣
If it is open, then it is obviously the job of the police and justice, not the job of the CEO.
Why would you go to facist Europe if you developed something like Telegram?
How does the police know who “anon12345” is in the open group?
👍👍
One important contribution would be to support the efforts of the team at
@SeedSignerCan we build communities or groups in #NOSTR ?
@npub1sx9r...6g8m @nostr.build@ hodlbod may be working on something
As many Bitcoiners are saying these days: the fight around digital privacy is a big one although it is often invisible for many people.
Don’t know Pavel and the Telegram case enough to judge if the accusations are correct but it at the least seems, that Telegrams non KYC system could be a also reason behind this arrest.
does elon have enought leverage to resist this happening to him?
He's already compromised. Maybe he can advocate for some things but there are certain facts he's not allowed to acknowledge
Seriously concerning. Thanks for working towards solutions.
#WoT Fixes This ™️
(Maybe not completely fixes … but it’ll be a damn powerful tool)
The best thing we can do is to create a legal fund for all those targeted in this way. Crowdsource it via lightning. Those provoked people with capital can best utilize that capital by hiring legal experts to structure such a fund and operationalize it.
I believe #nostr funds should be more used to attract and maybe incentivize new people .
Re focus on zap, which is the most remarkable entry point ?
Just thinking out loud
Yes but at least to other users you can mute the number away. And if it’s an anonymous SIM number…no KYC
And some people still wonder to this day why Satoshi wanted to remain anonymous... 🫠
Monero
Law fund.
In the case of our team: nothing.
Majority devs doing work unpaid I guess? Opensats did great job but it’s impossible to pay all contributors
interesting. not telegram sympathizer but this is weird. why would Durov fly to france if he wanted there
There are several possible mitigating areas of research/investment:
- a shift toward more people running servers themselves, at home, at scale, all sizes.
- a shift toward key-based accounts, but with key-based routing for credible exits
- more rights for server businesses around free speech, and relaxing of liabilities and compliance expectations. Removal of copyright/ip laws. Removal of hate speech rights. General reframing of net law to focus on the culprits not the abstracted hosts.
Just some quick ideas...
Elon is a defense contractor... so no.
Make the smallest voice louder without predicating the outcome or judging the messenger. Retweeting and reposting seems to be an antiquated way of amplification that could be improved upon with little effort.
ai doesn’t care how many followers a person has or which how many grammatical errors our made. (But we all just judged that last sentence). The only reason this post will be seen is because of your following. The only reason this post will be remembered is because the internet never forgets.
Free Pavel Durov
Telegram had such terrible privacy it might have been reasonable to arrest him in the basis of fraud...
This is a case of bad people getting arrested for bad reasons. The outcome might end up being good for the wider world, if users of Telegram move to something more secure.
Lyn Alden
-Treat the arrest of the Telegram CEO as an emergency.
-Advocate for his freedom and for all freedom tech providers.
-Support and build things that function without a CEO, like some aspects of Nostr. When authoritarian Europe or the US arrests you, be able to say, “I literally can’t control it, it’s already out there, and we are legion.”
-Tell me and others, as capital providers, how to accelerate this.
View quoted note →
Does that actually work there Lynn? I've concluded only transcending the whole situation is the primary solution of Achieving transcendental spiritual consciousness. Decentralized chats and Noster are also good Solutions but the ultimate solution is to transcend the whole illusion altogether of of identifying with this temporary material manifestation called the universe. There is a spiritual level of perception one of joy peace and unspeakable ecstasy
Decentralisation is spiritually. Not being able to control and steer brings you to a state of humbleness. Which is happiness. ❤️
Accelerate education of freedom technologies ...
FOSE Foundation
FOSE Foundation
+
@Guy Swann ,
@prestonFree Pavel
The third point is especially important. For businesses that run unstoppable infrastructure, even if the operators are persecuted, the idea and vision behind the technologies used can still live on. The Pirate Bay is an incredible example of this. Martyrs in the freedom tech space are unfortunately inevitable (and, as I've grown to believe, might actually be necessary), but if things are built right, in a local-first, modular manner, any force that the state throws at us will ultimately fail.
Lyn Alden
-Treat the arrest of the Telegram CEO as an emergency.
-Advocate for his freedom and for all freedom tech providers.
-Support and build things that function without a CEO, like some aspects of Nostr. When authoritarian Europe or the US arrests you, be able to say, “I literally can’t control it, it’s already out there, and we are legion.”
-Tell me and others, as capital providers, how to accelerate this.
View quoted note →
The way I would defend cases like Telegram’s would broadly go like this. And this is also what I am highlighting in public posts and when talking with friends (NOT LEGAL ADVICE):
Lack of Direct Involvement.
No Criminal Intent: The CEO and the company did not create or operate the platform with the intention of facilitating criminal activities. The app was designed to provide secure communication for legitimate users, protecting privacy in line with legal and ethical standards.
Separation from Users' Actions:
The platform is a tool, and the company cannot be held liable for how individuals choose to use it, just as phone companies or email providers aren’t held accountable for criminal activities conducted using their services.
Legal and Ethical Duty to Protect Privacy.
Highlight that end-to-end encryption is a recognized standard for protecting user privacy, and its implementation aligns with global privacy laws (e.g., GDPR, CCPA) and human rights frameworks that emphasize the right to privacy.
Responsibility of Law Enforcement: Argue that while the platform offers encryption, the responsibility to prevent and prosecute criminal activities lies with law enforcement agencies. The inability to access encrypted communications should prompt law enforcement to seek other investigatory methods rather than shifting the blame to the technology provider.
Existing Legal Mechanisms:
Point out that mechanisms like subpoenas, warrants, and mutual legal assistance treaties (MLATs) exist to access certain data legally, and the CEO has always complied with lawful requests within the bounds of the law.
Disproportionate Sentence: Argue that the demanded 20-year sentence is grossly disproportionate, especially given the lack of direct criminal involvement. Highlight the absence of any previous convictions or misconduct by the CEO.
Impact on Innovation and Privacy:
Argue that punishing the CEO for providing encryption technology would set a dangerous precedent, stifling innovation, and undermining efforts to protect individual privacy against state surveillance and cyber threats.
Already building with this mindset and telling people that it doesn't matter if they threaten as I have no control (takes normies a while to understand how there's no central control when I mention this).
One thing that is worth mentioning, and very important in my opinion: we should ALL be collaborating by running nodes/relays. This makes every decentralized network more resilient!!!
Seems rational. The state fights all challenges to it's power though...
I can not take this statement serious, when you speak of autoritarian EU 😂
I have written a book "Unregulatable" about exactly this problem - especially point 3. I am currently looking at publishers. For point 4: help me publish the book, please. Wdyt?
they need his rockets and satellites, he's rockets do 80% of earth's load to space.
Thank you very much for sharing this information, Lyn. I've been busy and had no idea.
Let’s start having conversations about values alignment. There will always be two sides of a coin. We need people of higher moral values to come together. That’s the legion…
Where to find any real info on his arrest?
Time to wake up.
He wasn't informed about being wanted, plus that one of his nationalities is French.
Always the right answer
Zap is not private. Maybe now more people understand why privacy matters.
💯
they can pressure apple and Google to kill the app
big tech has to cooperate to stay big
If they arrest me in Texas I'll just shoot them.
Google and Apple can be pressured to remove Nostr related apps from their ecosystem but they can't stop you from downloading SDK's and installing it manually.
On the other hand I'm learning more about the Deffie-Hellmlan key exchange and a double ratchet key cryptography system that will help insure privacy...
Onward.
Both counts : privacy and free speech
so what are you gunna say if they human traffic here too?
Do you think you're anonymous here?
I dunno. They are trying to make it more and more anonymous over time
#PRAY #FOR #PROTECTION #PSALM27 ✝️
This was what made me finally sign up to nostr. Thanks for your leadership in this critical fight.
Would love to work w you as a capital provider
Telegram is centralized and has backdoors. It's not even worth it at this point.
I just joined Primal after hearing what happened.
It starts with not being a bitcoin maxi, because bitcoin has no binding contract
While as something like hosting websites on Arweave is a decentralized business that takes in revenue:
Arweave | Simplified Privacy
Arweave isn't competing with lightning for general cash, so should not trigger the insane "shitcoin" response.
But hey, I expect to be ignored with this post. Since I think you’re looking for likes and not solutions.
Free Pavel and all the free speech promoters. Thanks we have Nostr
Protocols > platforms
Thank you for all you do! Brazil is living terrible times because of censorship! I started using Primal today and watch many of your videos about Bitcoin! Great information! I Hope Nostr is gonna be the solution for the censorship we see in the world today!!
FOSS or a FOSS company dead man switch are key here
I do not believe that people that have been attracted to this platform and are used to keeping bitcoin secure are unaware of how questionable and scammy telegram is/was. I've known for years to stay well away from it from a purely opsec perspective.
I enjoy it very much
Lets go 🚀
Help us to establish FreedomTech Embassy in the EU. We can make changes together.
5eyes alliance, they need a backdoor for everything
I had this idea when nostr first started. I think its still valid. Discoverability is still an issue on nostr. The lack of an algo is also. The community is full of interest groups. So transparent sharing of filters that allow you to view subsets of info of the global feed may help. If I take that filter and share it, people can view the params I applied and modify to their liking or just use mine.
My 2 sats anyway. I'll help provide funding for it if anyone is keen
So do the EU and the US, so nothing new there.
Nostr apps all need to be built like Mutiny to load and install without app stores.
Accurate. Need good proxy network and a ISP bypass network.
Do you know what he was charged with, Lyn?
France is not a member and intentionally pursues a different doctrine to the 5 eyes and US.
If anything, this probably has more to do with Israel or former French colonies in the Sahel.
Descentralizar todas las plataformas y redes sociales! Es nuestra fortaleza.
Luchemos por liberar a Pavel
Yeah youre right... its part of 9 eyes.
Countries spying on eachothers citizens on behalf of each other, apparantly telegram worked well enough to prevent some of that. Kinda like an advertisment fot this type of protocol
How to accelerate this : Bring people with big followings/influencers to nostr.
😖what
thats insane
Im worried about my code even it’s shitty
Please move to Russia, Eritrea, Belarus, Venezuela and North Korea and regress after 10 years, if they let you. Probably then you will understand, why it is absolut out of the blue calling the EU authoritarian. Here and there a questional court decision or political action does not make a System authoritarian.
Looks like someone thought of it already.
lets remind you - telegram is not popular in EU, mostly telegram is used in russia and ukraine. So when you say that the EU authorities are restricting freedom of speech by arresting Durov - well, if you mean freedom of speech in russia, yes. but I don't think the French police care much about freedom of speech in russia. i'm not justifying the arrest, just the details.
1. First thing you can do as capital provider is to stop misleading. Its not necessary that only CEOs will get arrested. Tornado Cash smart contract still works and being used.
2. Nostr is a bunch of clients and relays. Clients can censor, in fact there are NIPs for it: NIP-56, NIP-51. Relays can censor some events and a few relays share this info using NIP 11.
A nostr developer and relay operator can be asked to "moderate" and they do control things.
3. Even ecash is being promoted as censorship resistant although its not. Mints can enforce KYC for mint, melt, swap etc. at some point and censor some users based on different things.
GitHub
NUT-XX: Authentication by starbackr-dev · Pull Request #106 · cashubtc/nuts
Currently, access to mint endpoints are open to anyone. Since Cashu tokens are IOUs, the mint should have an optional way of restricting access to ...
You mean moving from a proto-authoritarian regime into a fully authoritarian regime.
The choice is NOT binary.
I won't move elsewhere and neither will accept becoming a comfortable prisoner within my own country.
The third choice is to make sure that technology respects our privacy and rights. Right here, right now. Zero excuses.
The EU is constantly moving in the direction of less freedom instead of more freedom. Yes, of course there are country that are more authoritarian, but that can't be an excuse.
For sure, make sure to use technology that technically protects our rights. When this is the goal Telegram was never part of this. Since Telegram is based on trust. They can no proove (as Signal or Threema), that they can not share their users information. It was always only the trust. Since there is no E2EE in Groupchats.
Maby we could do fundraises on nostr to pay big tech Podcasts around the privacy to mention Nostr.
Would support the privacy community and inform people that are intrested.
That is also not a binary option between fully private or none at all.
It is a path, getting people out of facebook was the first step. Moving them out of Whatsapp to something like Telegram was another step.
There is a succession of steps towards better privacy for the masses and not always a straightforward path. Maybe this is something useful for your case. Choose a path that isn't making all the changes overnight, but at least making steady progress toward your goal.
We've come a long way since 5 years to this part when looking back in perspective. We'll keep moving.
Yes there I go with you, that it is a granular way. But if Telegram is any better then Whatsapp is kind of speculative. But I wouldmalso say every service you do not need to use from Meta is a good move. I am just not sure if Telegram really is this big privacy defender it trys to tell through its marketing. Seems to weak to only depend on one generous donor #durov and no other sources to fund the project...
Super Bowl ad
If Europe is so bad then I'll buy you a one way ticket to Pakistan. Go enjoy your freedoms there.
And you defend the sicko shitcoiner Pavel Durov. Screw you.
He beat his 5 year old son into a concussion, turned a blind eye to the sale of Child Porn so he could fly around on a jet yet you cretins simp over him. SMH
Enjoy all that excess of bile up and down your throat while sitting there seething at your screen, knowing that you've been muted :)
Yawn.
Watch my nostriga talk for how we can accelerate CEOless organizations.
There needs to be an insurance policy but I said that months ago.
We have P2P money (#Bitcoin), but are not using it as MoE to complete the parallel system. We have the capability in #Nostr as a free market place to complete the revolution. Need to get people to use #Bitcoin and #Nostr for free speech and free commerce.
That will lead to hyperbitcoinization and freedom.
