Scammers and bad actors have been claiming BIP110 was "dead on arrival" or otherwise failed from the first day Dathon Ohm published it. It was fake news then, and it's fake news now. BIP110 has consensus and will still succeed if we hold the line.

Replies (47)

shitfork liar
Rob Hamilton 's avatar Rob Hamilton
It’s important to have a futures market with any contentious fork in Bitcoin. Why? Because the party forking gets what is called the “free call option”. They can tweet, do long monologue videos about how their fork will win, and how no one will oppose them. They can use company resources to legally pressure miners, post populist rhetoric disassociated from reality (pľēb şľőp) and then… wait. The activation comes, and they are delta neutral on a fork. If… No fork happens - they have their bitcoin. The fork is successful - they have their bitcoin. A chain split happens - they get Bitcoin on each side of the fork See the problem? There is an opportunity cost of time and resources coordinating the fork (maybe reputation too), but that’s it! They can antagonize the network at no cost of bitcoin. It’s worse than that though, everyone who told them they were wrong can’t even dump their hostile fork if they fail to even launch it. The actual party who has to put up material cost in a fork are the miners. Since they cannot mine on both chains at once, they must choose where to secure coins. The only publicly stated mining pool position on this fork is f2 pool opposing it (~12% of hash rate). My proposed on chain futures market requires no ecosystem coordination. The Bitcoin is settled automatically, and in the event there is a chain split, each side gets 2 BTC (each party gets the bitcoin they think will “win”). A futures market forces actors among the Bitcoin network with different opinions to put skin in the game, price the risk, and act. It presents an opportunity to lock up Bitcoin for a time, and profit as a rational actor if they have conviction in their position. The market will do this independent of your wishes otherwise. Via prediction markets, on chain, or exchange future markets (any exchange could get fees for swapping the fork to buy more bitcoin). We saw futures markets with the last contentious fork in 2017 when bitfinex listed futures. If no market forms at all, it shows there are not two sides to the market, I’m here as one side of the market, so we know the side that is a no show. This kind of weakness is death for a fork. If the side forking is unwilling to burn the ships, and put their bitcoin at risk, they are of low conviction and the fork will fail. There will be a myriad of reasons as to why people who are so vocal and certain that BIP 444 will activate, won’t bet. To be clear, it’s cope. Their optimal positioning as it relates to the opportunity to wager is: 1. Ignore 2. Public consider the bet, but to never commit. 3. Hand wave any reason to say the market is either immoral, illegitimate, impractical etc. Any of these maintains the illusion of strength when they are actually weak. A requirement in fork psychology is to appear as if it’s a certainty, because forking is a game of chicken with the network. A 1:1 ratio implies a 50% chance likelihood to succeed, far lower than they’d have you believe success is. Additionally, to counter offer with a differnt ratio/odds gives up the game. They blink, show their hand and signal that they think 50% is way to high of a likelihood, and all the bluster comes tumbling down. I’ve given feedback on the GitHub already from a technical perspective my objections to the BIP, they went largely unaddressed before the GitHub was locked. Notice who will continue engaging in this content without taking the bet, they are seeking attention because they must consume the discourse as their shred of a hope to win. Surely, there is already rumbling of restricting how 444 works, already a weakening of their position. People will say I am wrong, but won’t take the wager. Makes you think right? I’ll give 10% of my potential winnings from the contract if you refer a BIP444 proponent into actually making the bet with me. So whenever you see someone talking about the certainty of this fork activating, link them to this post so we can both make some bitcoin!
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askHVtobidIV's avatar
askHVtobidIV 3 weeks ago
You will become a mute chain no one cares about, that is successful to you but, failure to others. Goodluck. I will will be nice to be over finally.
i just chatted with the only Square merchant that i got to switch on the bitcoin payment option... i can't imagine trying to explain BIP110 as well... it sounded like he lets it batch convert to USD at the end of the day anyway. saves him like 25 cents + 3.8% of each transaction. i guess you mean non-Square merchants. how would they even have a say in a bitcoin fork debate?
Wow, a poll conducted by a BIP 110 twitter account about BIP 110 showed majority support for BIP 110. That’s like me surveying a Trump rally in California and deducing that the state is going to vote red. Do better.
BIP-110 and Bitcoin Knots is already huge number of Bitcoin node runners with lots of knowledge and expertise. If an attack is noticed the word will spread immediately. The Bitcoin immune system is working.
Forget corporate Square nodes and auto-converting to fiat. Out here in the real grassroots circular economy, we don't wait for third parties. We onboard local merchants directly to the Lightning Network. Real peer-to-peer sovereignty, zero intermediaries, instant settlement. Watch the protocol working flawlessly in the streets! 🛠️⚡️ 🇰🇪🧡🤘
Others have proposed that. But the witness discount was created for good reasons. I don't think a blunt removal is the right approach. Maybe some more thought to weight as a concept instead? The Knots Discord has a #future-softforks channel that would be perfect to begin discussion of "what next" after BIP110 is active.
I'm a newbie but I m trying to run Bitcoin knots on Mac Mini m4. Last 2 days l tried I got error about failing to verify digital signature or fingerprints with sparrow wallet? It became a little technical for me and I left because I didn't want to install the wrong software. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.... btw is following #BTC Sessions YouTube video from a year ago
Tony Acid 's avatar
Tony Acid 3 weeks ago
This is simply not true 😂🤣😂
Artel 21's avatar
Artel 21 2 weeks ago
Maybe it was created for good reasons but de facto it acts as monetary policy pricing bits at different values so that 1 bit is no longer equal to1 bit within a block. As a result it distorts free and fee market without solving any particular problem other than making it cheaper to do add more data. Cool, happy to join the Discord (though I would really prefer Armada by @Derek Ross and @Alex Gleason). @Jack K curious to hear your take.
I think we have to begin one layer deeper. SegWit is a transaction serialization upgrade, but it also changed Bitcoin’s economics of blockspace thru inflation and discounting. It is a soft fork in name only; every modern fully validating node must download and validate witness data under today’s consensus rules. The block Bitcoin commits is therefore larger than the original 1 MB design. Pretending the effective memory surface did not change because we renamed it “block weight” obscures what actually happened. Blocksize increase and discounting have nothing to do with transaction malleability or Lightning. My concern is that they were coupled to an economic restructuring of Bitcoin’s finite memory and distorted the entire conserved relationships the system was supposed to preserve. If the fee market exists to discover the price of finite blockspace, why should the protocol define different prices for different classes of permanently committed transactions? 1 bit = 1 bit regardless of tx type. 1 satoshi now purchases different amounts of historical memory, a burden even fully validating node takes, depending on the protocol’s classification of those bits. The market is no longer pricing physical blockspace alone; it is pricing protocol abstractions. We depegged the bits from the coin. We broke the logic of how coins become bits through a conserved physical process. If we are going to defend witness discount, I think it should be grounded in an objective conservation principle defined by the physics of information. What conserved physical quantity is the 4:1 weighting measuring? Why is that ratio correct? Why not 10:1? Why not 50:1? Why not free? Why not 0.5:1? Bitcoin’s purpose is to allow the markets to discover price of finite work, finite memory, and finite satoshis while the protocol conserves invariant relationships. Once the protocol begins assigning different prices to different classes of permanently committed bits, we’ve moved that price discovery into protocol policy. It’s a distortion to the core economics Satoshi defined. If every witness bit ultimately becomes part of Bitcoin’s permanent historical record, what objective physical principle justifies assigning it a different economic price than other permanently committed bits? Until that question is answered from the physics of information rather than engineering preference, we cannot even defend the BIP logically. We should not think of witness discount as simply another protocol “lever” to adjust. It’s not. I cannot morally defend the change to begin with. I cannot defend the implicit blocksize increase. I cannot defend the arbitrary weighting. Bitcoin no longer conserves the constant relationship of sats:bits:blocks, thus it should be seen as a violation of property rights. I am working on building the proof that changing blocksize or arbitrary sat weighting of identical physical bits is an equivalent violation of conservation law, akin to changing 21M. Im not going to pretend the blocksize didn’t change >1MB. All bits carry same physical cost to write (not read). The only sane conservative thing to do is to return Bitcoin to the constants defined by Satoshi. This isn’t an upgrade nor a change to Bitcoin, it’s what Satoshi gave us originally. No discounting Segwit bits + non-Segwit bits <=1MB 1 sat = 1 sat if and only if 1 bit = 1 bit
Much clearer now thank you Luke. For noobs like us; signalling literally means: 'declaring that you will run node/s implementing BIP-110 when the time comes' So even if we are currently running Knot-BIP-110 version, no actual filtering is happening until activation. It's a declararion of intent at this stage.
dangershony's avatar
dangershony 1 week ago
I am sure that sounded really cool in your mind