Replies (82)
I just had a quick look and as suspected, it's all of the mostr.pub fediverse people posting that. At least from what I saw. That bridge is a cesspool
@Alex Gleason It's cool as hell from a technical standpoint and you're amazing to pull it off, but the content is less than to be desired by most.
It’s only 3 relays to
there are two sides of fedi, the side that is basically bluesky, and then there is miskey/pleroma/soapbox side where there are no rules 🤣 watch out truth social leaks through
I am finding this stuff on damus relay too, it finds a way to broadcast
This is an attack on #nostr and is one of the most important challenges to figure out.
View quoted note →fediverse tis a silly place
To say the least?
I think this is a UX problem with clients from my perspective. No matter what this kind of content will eventually show up on the protocol, but how can we build clients that don't show this kind of stuff by default, especially to brand new users
lets all love lain though
Is that anime?
hhahahahahha, im talk old lore
Ok ok I wasn’t sure lol
I want a global feed in gossip really bad
all MUST tools+filter for children at nostr client side only
relay admin should follow their local laws only !
i saw some disturbing shit on global 2 months ago and legit haven't been on it since, global should not exist as it is today
Not sure it’s an attack exactly? But it will be used to attack. Similar to allegations that crimes are being paid for via bitcoin.
Agreed.
Yeah I really dont like that bridge. It keeps me off global.
It’s the thing that had me consider not staying around when I first started a few months ago.
It’s in global every day and it’s why I cannot recommend Nostr to people.
It should either be:
- Filtered at the client with detection like NSFWspy
- Relays need to start blocking MOSTR (but they will eventually be in Nostr directly)
- Global needs a warning and a reminder how Nostr is not censorable.
Someone definitely needs to build tools to help those who are running relays to not have to do as much work to moderate out this crap.
This was one of the first arguments a friend made against Nostr when I first introduced it.
Global feed without experience or filtering is a big turn off for most users. They’ve never seen the world without algorithmic or third-party interference.
Personally, i'm not opposed to implementing an algorithim of sorts for Nostr, if it's opt-in, i don't know how it would be implemented, if the nodes would run it, if separated nodes specific for that would be implemented, or if it would be ran locally, on the users phone (kinda like filters), but it would streamline the Nostr joining experience, and make up for more convenience.
I would lik the ability in my client to wildcard filter out posts and automute the accounts, e.g. *@mostr.pub
Yea this can’t effectively be blocked at any relays since others will have it anyway. It’s got to be done in the clients. Dont most clients not auto load images unless you turn it on for global feed?
@utxo the webmaster 🧑💻 No idea how Nostr works or how that would be handled on the network therein.
I have blocked so many people from mostr.pub, scripted and manually, that my global looks like a fucking church bulletin board. Mostr has always been the problem. We should be able to filter notes and autoblock on metadata wildcards, like *@mostr.pub
Would be handled very easily, your client only queries notes from npubs you select or are related in some way, ie follows of follows
I only run 15+ relays but yeah what do I know
My other mitigation strategy has been to prevent certain instances from populating my global.
Literally every piece of content I’ve seen on Nostr that gives me the ickies and makes me want to quit the internet has come through the Mostr bridge. Like Nostr leans heavily toward conservative thinking and outright conspiracy theories, but I’m game for the variety of viewpoints. But neo nazi shit and borderline CP are not it for me. I would love for clients and/or relays to be able to block all content from that bridge categorically even if reposted by someone on my follow list.
Not even filter.nostr.wine can fix this.
If I was a client dev, I would default to read from a popular paid relay, and only write to public relays. I would have referral codes where current users could send an invite that defaults their newly invited friends settings to a specific relay.
I would also make it a #1 priority to educate users about relays like freedom tech's life depended on it.
I ran across this last night. It’s not my thing and I’d rather not see it. What can be done about it?
i got a beta invite from zbd, some time ago. I just wanted to see how they implemented nostr.
First thing i saw on my feed was porn...... Not a good look when trying too onboard people...
Are we advocating for censorship then? As disturbing as it can be, not much can be done at the relay level, and that’s the whole point of Nostr too.
We’ll have to find innovative solutions for this problem without having to kill the protocol.
These perverts are everywhere. *yawn*. Don't expect there to be any solution other than user and service customised filtering. The whole point of this protocol is exactly about eliminating centralised gatekeeping.
Obviously this will be desirable features for all users who aren't sickos.
+1 Exactly this.
It's not censorship to choose what you want to see. It's censorship to prevent others from speaking
Individuals should be able to censor as one sees fit. I don't need someone doing this for me.
When I see prevented content or someone who is constantly being a dork I just mute the user.
Given the current state of nostr, if would be off limits to any young children.
That's great for you but if we want nostr to succeed we can't be showing child porn to new users
🎯
i'm gonna tell you my path through Nostr. It may be useful for you or not. In the beginning, I noticed Nostr suffered an identity problem but then realized I didn't need identities to search interesting things on Nostr if I focused on logical reasoning and A priori knowledge, because you don't evaluate the attributes of the sender when you are trying to determine if a statement is logic and makes seen.
The problem of this approach is that I wasn't able to find a lot of people in the beginning of my Nostr journey, only the bitcoin maximalists I knew from Twitter, telegram and youtube. But then I found the idea of the "network"(follows of your follows) of primal and began researching about clients that could give me an algorithm that shows posts of "new people" from the "network".
I didn't find shit because I don't have technical experience but I found that muting my own follows on coracle would provide me posts of new people from the "network" and I could evaluate if that post were logical or not and weed out the spammers.
In that way, I was able to expand my base of follows and my "network" and I can find new logical people every now and then.
My conclusion is that no one thinks the same. Every person has different types of reasoning in their brains. I think the Best way to handle this is letting people be their own algorithms and not worrying to much about identity
*makes sense
This bridge is a shitcoin.
Is that the golden gate?
@Mazin do you think it would be possible to have a panel to block nip05 domains?
and the problem there is not even that it can appear on the timeline but that it is being relayed at all, you basically cannot trust any relay because there are no rules and it's great and all yay guys we support anarchy and no censorship and whatever but nostr is just filled with too much degeneracy like porn, women, next comes children, communists, at this point even mastodon is more hoppean and conservative and we all know that building a liberal land is the downfall of every system
🤣🤣
I remember when my follows were so low I had to dip into the global feed to find new nostriches sometimes. Roughly 1 in every 7 posts had at least something to think about. It was a good resource when needed. The contrast between quality notes and absolute garbage is very clear there. There must be a better way to find interesting people in the beginning though.
If you follow just two good accounts it's very easy to recommend additional accounts to follow, shouldn't have to dig through global to find
By default, filter only pulls content from within your follows+follows network (unless you specify global=all).
If you’re seeing content you don’t like, find out which one of your followers is following them and solve the problem!
Global feed have never 'worked'
Might as well get rid of it.
Global was good at the very beginning. Global has been obsolete for a while and should be dropped.
This.
I think there could be relays that are dedicated to good initial content and these could be set as default in the apps.
Like only have posts from well known folks, then maybe do some ML to "filter" good and meaningful posts, maybe sprinkle in a bit of web-of-trust based posts, then sprinkle a bit users that joined in the last 24 hours and then maybe some hashtags...
In apps like Amethyst it's actually quite hard now to see the Global thread, it's more hidden than it used to be.
Global should be axed, discovery should occur by making connections with people and that will mean following hash tags and following the follows of your follows. What is the function of global in nostr, someone tell me ?
Smart.
Last week we stumbled upon AI ones. It was very disturbing.
Plus I learned that reporting them is illegal.
I think nostr needs referral kits. The person referring can select relays to connect the new account to, or keep a default. The referral would automatically follow the person referring. It would be cool if global could be 3 degrees of separation, but that might be complicated to scale.
I am quite new here and I use global for discovery. The amount of disturbing content is crazy but not surprising. It is useful to see how people behave when there are no consequences
What are better ways to see what is going on on this platform?
Never used global. It doesn't even make sense as I want to build a net of trusted partners.
⚡️
Make relays with moderation the default relays that ship with the app. Global is not actually global. Its global for your relays only.
First thing to understand is that you're not on a platform. If you prefer, you're on many platforms all at once.
Check your relays list. You're basically posting to a bunch of websites all at once. If you don't like the moderation policy of a relay, you can remove it, or hide it in your global view but keep it for people you follows.
Discovery is best done as a network effect (and honestly "friends of friends" should be its own view)
Follow some people and check who they follow and repeat
It does actually work fine if you understand relay selection, but if you're in a client that isn't showing you which relay each note came from (so you can axe relays showing unfavorable notes) then I can understand why it would be difficult.
The global feed is absolute pure garbage. IDK the answer, but i refuse to look at it at all.
- start with global nostr feed.
- add a button to block addresses
- add ML buttons to train ML
- train ML with a few thousand posts
-
Old note checks out:
View quoted note →During setup in app should ask if you’re ok with no mutes, or chose to mute hashtags at setup, but that also means posts would require hashtags 🤷🏻
Who browses global?
The really nasty thing is that it's also illegal in the US to report child porn to anyone other than NCMEC. This problem has to be solved not only for nostr's reputation, but also because it puts everyone at risk (especially amateur relay operators).
View quoted note →
Maybe it's because I'm younger and sufficiently desensitized, but most notes on global won't even make make stop scrolling. I also think censorship discussions are going to be part of nostr growing pains we ALL need to be aware of. Id rather have junk and depravity over reduced freedom and potential reach, however I think there are plenty of hard lines to be drawn, your example is one of them, but we need to be aware of who draws them and how.
I think we need to be mindful of how and where this content policing happens because I think most people would willingly trade freedom and reach for the comfort and convenience of their client. I speculate this is especially true for users with larger networks. I also believe nostr can turn into an oligarchy real quick if, as users, we are not paying attention.
Finally, I don't believe the internet should have warning labels or nutrition labels, it's a dangerous and unforgiving place, consumer education is and always will be required.
Please keep in mind again, I am speaking for myself, and we may have a difference in the definition of the word censorship.
Some clients will be more dank than others, it's about choice and hopefully some context. It's fine if you know what you're getting into. This is not even remotely close to a censorship discussion.
Clients don't by default give you a list of vegan websites to visit, doesn't mean those sites are being censored. That's my point, we know global is full of trash, why show it by default?
As fucked as it is the real issue is with the users posting the "illegal" content not the protocol it’s on.
We’re gonna have to get used to seeing stuff that’s "normally hidden in the shadows" until the police find em.
Any restrictions on content that happen at the protocol layer are censorship & shouldn’t happen.
Agreed, the protocol should not concern itself with this stuff. However, clients and relays must.
Here's one possible approach:
View quoted note →Yep, it's very weird. But this is the byproduct of uncompromising democracy and free speech. We may end up destroying this freedom raft by tinkering with it to "protect" the normies.
Instead of comprimising, the normies must wake up from their lala land and acknowledge there are terrible things out there.
Ditto!
I made the mistake of briefly following some A I hashtags a few months ago. Isht was def kinda cringie. I'm ok with it living in global personally. But yeah, not sure how that fits into a mass adoption path moving forward.
But by default against any type of censorship.
The world has monsters and always will.
I agree with Lot of points here. Global can be tucked away. Who even goes there to browse (unless you have it set up just showing wine welcome relay for example).
>Only have posts from well known folks
Would have to disagree with this point tho. As with all social networks, everyone knows the recommended users / highlighted posts, trending etc is almost always some of the worst content. No offence to anyone lolol.
Still think although it's early days of communities. Communities should be recommended in future, you can then have recommendations based on memberships or see active posters there or something. Like this with interconnections of other groups, hashtags (minus the generic ones like plebchain or asknostr or b!tcoin) or something.
Would be interesting to see a #nostrasia roundtable discussion with devs talking through this issue and the wider implications, and other major issues. And see some back and forth on problems, possible solutions, general thoughts.
