We need a Nostr based robosats alternative, with trusted circles.

That sucks. I've always been lucky I guess. She's to hear that pablo

*sorry

How did this happen? Was the scammer also acting as the coordinator?

Is that what @npub1m0st...40un would be?

It’s one of my reservations about this kind of service. You’re basically trusting the void not to screw you. Reputation is critical.

Can you explain how?

How they scammed me or the identity thing?

Yes

Did you go through the dispute process?

The scam, if you dont mind

Never heard of this 🤔

Bisq does it better I think. 2 of 2 multisig. If there's a dispute, there are two phases of resolution before a presigned txn is sent to the DAO who makes the final decision. I've done hundreds of trades on bisq and went through mediation and arbitration. Never lost a sat.

How is that possible ? The only real risk with all these DEXs is chargéback.

Happened to me as well scammer just reported the transaction and the bank froze the funds

These are clawbacks after the payment is made; after the trade is settlef and the Bitcoin disbursed the scammer calls their bank and dispute the transaction.

Yeah, to me they froze the funds and then proceeded to close the account entirely.

Yes

Not at all, counterparty can falsely report you as scammer and you can lose your acc. There're other risks as well.

That's how chargebacks are done. You're repeating what i said but with more words.

Ahh, damn.

Many times, this wasn't it though.

Fuckin bastards. I had the same shit a while ago, Revolut closed my account and didn't even consider my explanation.

This is exactly my concern when it comes to using a DEX. I refuse to ever do KYC through a CEX, but even with an escrow involved, a DEX is risky (not to mention it's KYCed upstream) and it's exactly why I still can't figure out a way to get into Bitcoin.

Omg There are more bad guys in the space than we could imagine🤔

Oh gosh so sorry.

Not every chargeback is necessarily a false scammer complaint. I'm a seasoned P2P trader w/ thousands of P2P trades under my belt AND I work on payment systems. At best you're unaware of your own lack of knowledge and experience, at worst you're a poser. Stop acting like you know everything and be humbled by your apparent ignorance.

What a sore fuck.

@peachbitcoin does it with reputation. I'm doing my trades with them mostly.

That's holding me off trying it.

Shoot sorry to hear that

Tell us how it happened so we don’t fall for the same. Identities doesn’t really help, I got scammed on hodlhodl and guy had 5 stars and several successful deals.

npubs on robosats ftw

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Sadly don’t see any offers for my payment options

Are these SEPA trades?

This is what I most dislike about RoboSats: no identity enforcement, scammers can start new identities from scratch. And the user experience has so much to improve… Go lnp2pbot/Mostro instead!

Yeah, but at least it massively increases the cost, now the scammer must engage in real trades and you can 1) identify wash trading and 2) fees provide some Sybil resistance. It's not about making it bulletproof, it's about making attacks a lot more costly

no, wise

What risks can there be when using an escrow?

Sucks man. Thanks for sharing.

Bitcoin is full and final settlement, fiat is not. There will always be risk as we move between the two. Multiple small transactions with different parties limits the risk.

Nostr fixes this?

Oh that sucks! I wanted to try Bisq once, but I noticed most people would require kyc. That seems to me defeats the purpose when you want to use a kyc free p2p exchange.

I would trade with you any day of the week and blindfolded. So yeah, Nostr can definitely fix this

🫂

Damn that sucks. Seems to be an issue only on the side as a bitcoin seller right? Can you do anything to decrease the likelihood of a chargeback before releasing the escrow? Maybe like transferring out of Wise to a bank account where the chargeback is less likely to occur, I don’t know. I like the privacy benefits from disposable identities but this case is definitely an issue.

Buying or selling??? all depends on the payment method you are using... I've used Robosats many times, no issues at all.

I've done hundreds or thousands of trades (selling); was scammed twice, where the scam resulted in losing the fiat and both times getting my bank account cancelled.

Sorry to hear that, i am try to convince Robosats users, not to use Revolut, which seems to be causing chargeback requests more and more often and in ever increasing percentage.

Oh, weak.

Man so important to call this out. Love robo but need to fix this

@Uno @Nathan Day @PABLOF7z @PobreBoomer @npub1vg7r...380h @KoalaSat @TheBigLake @Kote I’m truly sorry to hear about that 😓. , it is quite depressing to work hard for Robosats, and then hear about users losing money. We have a couple of Github issue that are aimed at increasing safety for sellers.

GitHub

Require buyer to pre‑declare payment‑account ID before chat to reduce triangulation/charge back frauds · Issue #2113 · RoboSats/robosats

Summary By requiring the buyer to specify their own payment‑account identifier before entering the trade chat, and automatically showing that ID ...

GitHub

Nostr-based reputation system · Issue #2138 · RoboSats/robosats

Description This issue explores the idea of implementing a reputation system that improves Robosats' trading experience. Ephemeral identities are a...

One of them is about introducing a Nostr-based reputation system without losing privacy (with some caveats). Koala is already doing a great job integrating NOSTR in many aspect of the platform (the orderbook, the coordinator rating and soon the whole chat are on NOSTR). Ideally we can leverage NOSTR also to improve safety, even though the implementation would not be simple and straightforward. If you have thoughts, questions, or suggestions or feedback on the issues we’d love to hear them! Let’s work together to make this better. 💪

What robosats ? Lightning wallet ?

It's best to use a new identity each time if you want true privacy. Keeping persistent identities requires maintaining records, and those records are vulnerable to attacks and can be exploited to target users. Likewise, reputation alone offers **no guarantee**: a scammer can create a fake reputation by interacting with themselves and then use that false trust to defraud unsuspecting users. These issues have been discussed many times over the years, and the arguments for why systems are built this way have been explained. As my colleague @Temple Of Sats mentioned, we are exploring methods to improve this: we discuss often how to help in these situations, @KoalaSat is working in new infrastructure and weare open to any suggestions you may have. The key point to understand is that the weak link here is fiat-money channels. In this case Revolut is not effectively managing user behavior or reliably verifying identities (people are creating accounts with false or stolen information). Until that is fixed, scams will continue. Unfortunately, this is outside RoboSats’ control — it’s a problem with banks and their policies. Similar scams also occur on Wallapop — and there, reputation systems exist too. Thank you for sharing your experience

Seems as if the fiat payment methods are the issue, right?

That does not sound like a RoboSats issue but a fiat banking issue.

I like the disposable robots, it adds privacy.

How do you want to fix this as the issue is caused by the fiat payment rails?

Have you considered cash trades? There's significant bitcoin community in Madeira so it should be doable.

@KoalaSat I think the opportunity here is to allow optional web of trust via nostr. You could do what Pablo is suggesting. Or you could consider that if e.g. Pablo posts an offer, there can be some mechanism via WOT to hide from the public the exact npub. If WOT allows, allow the communication / reveal to continue. Vexl does this matchmaking with phone numbers.

Robosats order book is over nostr.

GitHub

p2p sats book [kind 38383;NIP-69] Positive Interoperability Tracker · Issue #104 · nostrability/nostrability

https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/69.md nostr-protocol/nips#1331 app see kind-38382 post kind-38383 comment mostro ✅ ✅ - robos...

Oh, that's interesting 🤔 🐶

Check p2p.band

Robosats is a peer-to-peer Exchange without KYC

So much misinformation in the comments. It's not RoboSats but the fiat banking system creating the issue here. The same can happen with any p2p marketplace.

Diversify the risk by making more smaller trades and set the premium accordingly. For example set a 3% premium if the risk of getting scammed with this specific fiat payment method is 3% or smaller.

Use bisq

Which payment method did you use?

Relevant View quoted note →

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I’m not sure if it’s a scam or just a joke:)