Replies (136)
Can we have a list of volunteers who want to automatically follow new users?
Like you as Rabble have a spare nsec and volunteer it to follow newcomers.
You can interact with them and choose some of them to follow with your main account.
And whenever you have enough, you can opt out of the list.
build a client that does one thing well: onboarding.
make it interactive and hold the users hand. at the end, give them a handoff to popular clients.
Clients are getting batter and batter but these discussions are necessary to pinpoint the problems.
Yes. Put all the onboarding aides into one client. A customized client for newcomers.
Perhaps a special feed for notes number 1 to 10 of each new nsec ?
Maybe there should be a little user guide when the apps are first installed to teach users the concepts.
I have collected a list of 100+ Iranians who have tried #nostr for a short time and faild to connect with it so they left after not being discovered and not getting proper intraction.
Now we have only a handful Iranians here and they are mostly abroad.
That is why this topic is important to me.
@Blink Wallet has deployed simple educational and fun bitcoin quizes with sat reward.
Exactly, how do we make it so the folks joining find people and feel seen. Not just with random bitcoiners, but with their people. It’s easy for bitcoiners to find like minded nostriches… But we need everybody else.
I'm not technical. Wallet and keys I never had much problem understanding. But boy oh boy the browser extension thing! I was trying out #Habla and I learned that it is advised that we get into it through a browser extension. So I tried learning how to set it up. And let me tell ya'll I was literally groping like someone blind the whole time. I just kept in mind to save all the sensitive infos in my password manager and proceeded using common sense and intuition! I am happy that I got it done somehow. So happy. But it left me feeling like someone hard-fucked the two existing brain cells that I carry. 🤣
I feel passionate for the protocol #Nostr offers so I think that passion gets me through a lot of the stuff that I'm not very experienced or technical in. It's a learning curve. And I'm loving it to the bone! 🫂🤍
View quoted note →I think nostr and bluesky have different goals. I am on both and they are like night and day. Bluesky is very much like Twitter, Nostr is...well...something else.
I will buy the Nostr for Dummies if anyone ever writes one.
Agreed. I also refuse to use Alby because they require an email. That is horrendous for a supposedly open ecosystem.
Trop nul et décevant que Ben veuille vendre nostr.com alors qu'on a officiellement Jeff Bezos dans les murs
May I ask what do you use instead of Alby?
But is there any wallet service that doesn’t require email? And what if you use an encrypted, secure email? Or email alias?
I use Nostore on iOS for browser apps. If it is desktop browser, i just don’t use it
What is a “wallet service” exactly? I would question that premise.
Yeah I could make a throwaway email, but I won’t because it’s very annoying to do so and I don’t think what I am getting in return is worth it.
I'm still learning so I'm definitely noting your input. Thank you. 🤍
I think lots and lots of contents and tutorials will help. Both in text and video format. From various sources, made for various kinds of people. In every language possible. Resources and contents and discussions.
Maybe add a batch select tool clientside for anything like messages, profiles, hashtags, etc, based on user defined patterns so you can adjust personally anything you like and batch select users to block or follow
@rabble is spot on here. I suffered a lot yesterday when I introduced #Nostr to my undergrad students in the classroom, in a public university in Bangladesh. They were happy to get introduced to it and began using it instantly but they didn't like the browser extension part.
I must confess I was not a very capable teacher on the Nostr topic, and I have to chalk out a more clear-cut and simple onboarding instruction set, but what Rabble is focusing here requires serious attention of our wonderful devs.
Btw, my introducing of
@SimpleX Chat to my students was smooth. They didn't have any trouble at all.
Thanks. 🫂
View quoted note →
It only makes sense to do all of this but we run the risk of it being centralised at the same time , it's a double edged sword.
(imo)
New user experience isn't as big a deal as content, UX is an obvious hurdle tho. But bluesky is a bit fiddly and a bit buggy and still people join and stay. Discord is a flipping nightmare to work out too, just as another example. (These are both bigger brands tho, most people haven't even heard of nostr, that is obviously another factor).
But it seems like the content is the main problem, and I'm not sure there is a way around this unless a community (/communities) decides to make a home here, communities around an interest outside of bitcoin that is.
You see the complaints quite often about content being bitcoin-only or 99% bitcoin.
I would be curious to see what a feed would look like if you filtered out all bitcoin and bitcoin-related words (stack, sats, hodl etc etc). It might look quite bare. Not sure most people browsing will stay for 400 people saying 'stack sats and stay humble' everyday.
In short, nostr needs 'normies' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ lol
Thats a good start. Now Nostr clients should do the same.
Nostr is stuff stored and transmitted via relays. Those relays do search and etc and the client verifies the publisher. Also from yourself.
Yes ‼️ 👏👏👏👏👏
Looking at some of the stats and comparing Bluesky to Nostr…. Norhing profound, but kind of useful to remind ourselves of scale.
Using data from:
* Nostr:
https://stats.nostr.band/
* bluesky:
Atlas - Engagement-Based Social Graph for Bluesky by Jaz (jaz.bsky.social)
* fediverse:
Fediverse Observer checks all sites in the fediverse and gives you an easy way to find a home from a map or list or automatically.
Fediverse Sites Status. Find a Fediverse server to sign up for, find one close to you!
Avg Daily Posts:
* Nostr: 80k
* Bluesky: 520k
* Fediverse 36m
Average Daily Reactions / Likes:
* Nostr: 50k
* Bluesky: 2m
* Fediverse: ?
I read something about being able to create a ZKP-based wallet with no keys, just a password.
Maybe that would be good for #nostr UX, but I’d need to explore it more.
It's my first week on nostr, and I'm already feeling very overwhelmed by keys and extensions. Although, I use KeePass and know bit about encryption so its all cool, but for a newbie it's definitely scary, who is so used to just clicking "Forgot Password" button now and then.
There should be some easier way to onboard both kind of users, maybe via email address or something (ONLY IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO).
Also, #nostr looks like it caters to only #bitcoin and #crypto folks. Although, it has welcoming community and all, but it needs to spread its scope to cater various forms and voices - academicians, activists, etc. #grownostr
Yeah that surprised me too. Although Nostr has reposts, reactions, and zaps. All of which serve similar roles.
Trying to, overtime, grow a list accounts of different interests/topics/industries to help solve the "who to follow" problem.
View quoted note →Here are some examples of the Zero-Knowledge Proof wallet that only needs a username and password instead of private keys.
@rabble
Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
ERC draft: Password recovery for Account Abstraction Wallet
Password recovery for Account Abstraction Wallet This topic proposes a new approach to password recovery for Account Abstraction Wallets, utilizing...
I’m sure Robin from ZeroSync could code stuff like this for #nostr if he had more time.
He’s currently working on Zero-Knowledge Proofs for #bitcoin under OpenSats along with Bitstream on the side.
Nostr is not shining in a positive way. 😅
Onboarding and quality are the key issues at the moment. Lack of credible search next.
Great point 👍✅
From the data I have from
@Relayable.org I don't think the nostr band stats are all that accurate. But just my take.
We need an OSS search since all I know of are black boxes.
Omitted zap comparisons tho 😮💨
Quality … notes? Or quality client?
He probably just meant quality in a general sense. Onboarding is more than just a signin page. I am doing a redesign for onboarding.
The quality problem is difficult to solve, even if Damus is opened each time, it is difficult to successfully connect Relay to obtain data, and generally need to exit two or three times to successfully connect Relay.
Search is difficult to use under the current technical structure, because there is no large stable Relay to provide data search services, resulting in confusing search results.
New technical solutions may be sought, and local database services such as Nostr.band may be needed, which are fast and accurate in speed and data, with the disadvantage of lacking a decentralized Relay.
i personally wrote a hit piece on BlueSky and then joined Nostr myself.
the reason people go to BlueSky and not Nostr is because they know Bluesky will be same shit as Twitter but with a shiny new wrapper plus it's by invitation, which makes you feel special. so BlueSky is really offering people to feel better about themselves without any real change.
meanwhile with Nostr they know it's something different and they are afraid of change. people don't want to BE they want to SIGNAL.
Bluesky is about signaling. Nostr is about substance.
This is why Nostr will always be small - because most people have none ( substance ).
Y’all are building something important 🙏🏽
Waiting on the Other Stuff and not all the focus on Socials.
Gracias,👍🏼
Excelente aporte
I’m curious your experience if you’ve tried
@nos. We’ve got a local db and do a lot to try and make the experience consistent and reliable. Feedback, especially critical feedback, is immensely helpful.
every user should also be a relay.
this way we would be able to have video uploads for example.
basically merge bit torrent and nostr.
you need to give up on the absurd fantasy that nostr will ever be for the masses.
accept that nostr will always be for select few and make it MORE demanding to use, not less.
demand every user be a relay with minimum requirements for bandwidth, storage and uptime. then depending on how much you offer as a server / relay is also the level of service you get in return ( can you stream 4K video hosted on Nostr ? etc. )
@Adam Curry calls BlueSky “Trans Maoist social media” 😂
It’s Twitter for narrative addicts.
Wowwwww. But also, yes.
This is how Secure Scuttlebutt works. Scuttlebutt was the inspiration for much of what is nostr. I think we could get to efficient gossip between apps / relays which would help a lot. That said, scuttlebutt started out 100% peer to peer and offline first, and then evolved to have pubs which are like relays. We need relays for the network to function efficiently. But there’s no reason apps can’t be local micro-relays.
Then you also get cool things like syncing over mesh networks, censorship evasion, and nostr working when the internet goes down or is non-existent.
Be great if we didn't have to build experiences to rival Meta in our spare time. Most devs are fiat mining on the side. 😒
View quoted note →Great. I'll give it a try👍
Do zaps count as a “reaction” in your data set?
I don’t like anything, I’m on only zaps
A lot of people are sheep. They like to be hearded like cattle and slaughtered.
That's why they were so easily rooked into taking those extremely #toxic and #poisonous so-called #covid #vaccines..🐑🐄🥩🤡🤑💉☣️🤮🥀⚰️💀👹
#bioweapons #covid #mRNA #adenoDNA
Email is also a protocol though and everyone should have it, even more people than facebook has
I think a great designer can come up with a solution based on the limitations and available developer resources for the features. Of course if it’s not straightforward and requires a lot of testing + basic things take long and you’re solo, designer can also help prioritize things for the user experience first.
Is that what nostrdesign was recently set to be doing? There surely can be a generic approach because all nostr apps share the same onboarding etc. that comes from the protocol fundamentals.
But on the other side, if we were to fund/design/build the best in class client including UX that’s possible on nostr, with a great design system - all other devs will want to at least copy the way it works.
Can open the design files and a design system for other to copy and adapt.
The work can include User journey maps, basic design heuristics in general and examples from best in class apps so solo devs are better equipped not to make obvious mistakes that hurt UX
email can work I agree, but it can be any identifier really that humans are used to
Just got an idea, whenever anyone hears first about nostr, what do they do? Google I think is the main route people go through
You then get to the nostr website only to see a developer focused documentation which I think is a problem for non dev people and adoption in general
Ahh but count up zaos and we win lol
Zaps*
What if we redesigned nostr.com primarily for non devs?
People would arrive on that page to understand in the simplest terms what nostr is and get to the CTA which will be Get started or something like that
Then we can guide them through the account creation (keys), basically do the onboarding once and on nostr - don’t delegate that to all the clients to figure themselves
The next question will be about lightning wallet and how it works which is a different issue in terms of understanding, but it’s not required to get into nostr and can be done later also
Then we can share a list of clients that work with the platforms the person is using and tell them how to sign up there, maybe a few tips or notes
So in summary that experience can save a lot of dev time, be the single source of truth and a place to get started with nostr and then get directed somewhere with lots of clients and apps built with nostr, in a visual way, almost like an app store with similar screenshot images for people to get how it looks etc before they try it
This is something a solo designer can conceptualize even, myself included.
I’d need help for sure from someone understanding nostr better.
But overall that may be the radical choice needed to push things further, one possible solution I could think of.
When there is no marketing people need to make a lot more effort to learn how it works and get in.
The way world currently is, that’s already pushing few people to learn about nostr, unless something really bad happens, we could try a somewhat centralized approach for marketing/onboarding.
Design it and see if anyone likes
Something scary I can also imagine: imagine Meta coming to nostr, with the resources they have, they can build the best, most convenient client by far from what we have currently and which will work on all platforms. This way they could control the most users of nostr because most will choose that app because of marketing, convenience etc. But on the background they could still run ads and get every piece of data they can from nostr… is that something possible?
Haha, I’m down, will note for myself when I have a few free days. Or may suggest that for opensats
I just learning to navigate this space. Every bitcoiner on twitter, twitter& twitter spaces says Nostr needs to be utilized and built stronger, so here I am.😉
I’m not even sure what questions to ask. I figured out how to respond back to you. That a good start!Thank you .
It's because people WANT censorship.
Think about it, why the fuck would they even want to use nostr that allows people to call them out on bullshit, troll them, see conservative news, not be able to ban people they don't like and be subject to seeing the word nigger, kike, transfag and everything else they don't want to see?
I'm not arguing in their favor.
But their motto is, "no tolerance for the intolerant" and that ppl who disagree with them or don't accept their beliefs, should not be allowed to have their voices heard in ANY online space.
Your offering a space where they are stripped of the power to silence people. Why the fuck would they give that up?
On reddit and the fediverse especially lemmy, they hardcore advocate for admin and mod control.
I'm just not understanding how no one has considered this as one of many of the other reasons mentioned why nostr doesn't appeal to people.
Recommending an extension that uses your normal email is akin to saying Nostr requires KYC
Maybe a feed that shows posts only from new users
Maybe a feed that shows posts only from new users like how the app highlights what to click and what it does 'slide left to view posts'
And 'Token distribution'
🐢
Do we have better alternatives?
?
Which number is not accurate?
Technically totally possible. Nostr is open and any entity can exploit its data. Economically Meta may not have the incentive at this point. Therefore, the task for us Nostr devs is to build several really good clients with a strong enough user base before big tech realizes.
The extension is not essentially required for generating keys actually (though it's possible to do the whole onboarding process with the Alby extension master key lately).
The extension is needed for creating an Alby lightning wallet account if one likes to do it that way. It offers to customize your name in the wallet address for free. But an extension is CRUCIALLY required for the safety of your nsec key.
Thank you. 🫂
nostr has more to figure out than most as it is starting from a deeper foundation, and is evolving organically and competitively rather than by design.
So we should expect it to take longer to form and longer to iterate to become something broadly compelling.
nostr has no technology limitations and is not short of talented developers, what is missing at the moment is diversity of business models.
nostr has maybe a dozen Twitter clones. Why? Why build the 13th Twitter clone?
There was nostrgram for a while, but really another brand clone. Why?
Stop cloning web2, what’s the point?
It already exists.
“Hey I built Twitter but better, because of [complicated reasons]”… is not compelling.
nostr needs to think a little more profoundly about what the tech actually is, and then lean into that and follow where that truth leads to… it does not lead to Twitter clones!
Discovery does not mean aggregation! Stop and think more deeply. Empower exploration instead of sterilising it, the internet made a bad turn, we can now go back and turn the other way.
Nostr is a permissionless standard for sharing things safely. Safe torrents are now possible, yet people are using nostr to churn out another social feed UI?
Notes are not limited to blobs of text.
Middleman relays are nice, but edge relays are the end game. I can already see that coming over the hill with nostrdb.
Patience and persistence are the only things that nostr needs to have protected whilst it incubates in public.
I came here bc of free speech and bc of the potential I see in the platform, and THEN I got exposed to Bitcoin. I am still into the learning phase.
I haven't figured out how to add lightning support on Nostr yet. The extension thing confuses me a lot (like which browser do I add it to? my desktop's?). I haven't seen any tutorials around.
I wish on boarding about that was better.
how is nostr making torrents safer?
Is the lack of quality UI in any way reflective of the protocol itself, or do we think the clients just haven't matured yet?
Can we talk more about
“Then you also get cool things like syncing over mesh networks, censorship evasion, and nostr working when the internet goes down or is non-existent.“
Cause one of the things irl frens tell me a lot is what happens when the internet goes down or ceases to exist bc of some apocalyptic shit happens, what happens to bitcoin and nostr are they usable at that point ? Or gone with the internet.. and then this is where mesh networks kick in to my brain sooo yea I’d love to discuss this further idk maybe on a nest or something
I had this very issue this AM. Onboarding…she had CashApp but never engaged the bitcoin. Got that going but didn’t have time to get her fully “purple pilled”
But do we really? Blue sky is full of furries and normies
Wait, are they normies or furries? Because those are kind of opposites. ;P
✅ This is on my list
LFG! has anybody talked about it on podcasts yet ? I’d love to hear more about everyone’s train of thought on this 🙌
Really ? Awesome! Ima check it out 🫂💜🤙
It isn’t yet, that’s my point. Nobody is doing it.
But you can sign packets. So any modified stuff would be very easy to detect / prevent.
coracle wins
daddy shush
The DAUs was one noticed didn't agree with what I see. I am taking some time this weekend to process the August logs for all the Relayable relays. Will post numbers once do that to compare.
good search should replace #tags
a quality client should present quality notes
filter, signal
what are your ideas?
decentralized media is a huge problem not solved on nostr yet
i think the solution is some apps start experimenting with adding p2p, holepunch.to looks a good framework
why build the 13th twitter clone? because none do it rite
uncensorable torrent site, adding comments back to piratebay would be big
adam needs to switch to nostr full time, bring his fedi instance too
Someone should legitimately clone Tweetbot or one of the good twitter apps and make it work with nostr.
Copy what works instead of half assing your own solution.
copying what works should always be the starting point, its why nostr works because
@fiatjaf ignored things that didnt work like p2p
there is new things that will work really well however and thats combining other things that work like chat and forum reddit and twitter on the same data set, something nostr was born to do
amethyst wont let me like your note??
@Vitor Pamplonaomg lol it liked lots but didnt show it kek
signing is for rep
This applies as much to apps as standards.
fucking agree Sick of the twitter shit
🤣
have you ended your involvement with bluesky?
There are plenty of both at Bluesky. The trannies, troons and other sexual deviants are tooting on Mastodon.
What confuses me the most, as a new user you get the impression nostr is a thousend different, splintered worlds that dont really know of each other.
When I tried many different clients, each client presented me a completely different timeline that seemed to have no connection to each other.
And no client had a global timeline so you can get a feel whats going on or where you are.
It felt like a 1000 different rooms. And whichever you opend a new set if people talked about a completely new set of things.
Also: My first feeling was this is not a social network, but a network to talk about bitcoin. And nostr. A single theme network.
I like the protocol and I kinda like Crypto, but did not know what to do with nostr. It felt so shattered and without a general population.
For me the most important feature would be a global timeline of posts that are currently gaining traction.
Just having arrived myself having an example of a hello world message (& some #HTs to go with it) would have made all the difference :)
I assume that they are these hashtags, but I haven’t found them yet.
Welcome. It’s a tricky problem. Finding your people.
I will announce my ideas at NostrAsia
Not a single client has an onboarding flow that explains to new users how NOSTR is different from traditional platforms.
Private key? What is that?
Npub? What is that?
What is a relay and which ones should I connect to? Does it even matter?
Zaps? How do I set that up?
These questions and more need to be addressed straight away for a new user if you want to retain them on your client.
Still very complicated to assemple all pidces together.
I was able to convince a couple of friends. They got the Ethos..
Keys, nip05, wallet etc... still complex
Plug'n Play Getalby type of usr set up could facilitate
It all makes sense and is easy to understand, just drop the jargon. Just tell people where to find you, say a name of an app or web client and people will follow, if you project is good it will catch or it wont. This will also spur smaller conversations about preferred clients etc having the effect of education, people will figure it out.
Yes, I believe this is a feature not a bug. People who use Twitter also will use Facebook/Gab/etc. Think of client as no different
Nostr es la red social del mejor Dinero 🫰🤑 ⚡ese factor no tiene competencia, no hay red social que compita en ese terreno solo falta un poco de mejor experiencia de usuario y atacar las palabras claves que detonen el interés de las personas.
View quoted note →Look I found dozens of people on tiktok because their identity is their brand my npub will never be my brand
Ask me how I figured out douyin without being a Chinese speaker
When I saw zaps and lightning I removed the app
Sorry years ago I wasted a day on lighting and wasted money on trying to get a node working. Tech that wastes my time never gets forgotten or forgiven
If you can say anything ypu want on an unpopular unusable platform what's the point. Write your thoughts in a book cipher
The most censoreous tribe I've experienced are small blockers
Their form of censorship is to build a club no one can join. Neat trick
Ya contact discovery is the whole point of social media. My roommate and I signed up on nostr and could not find each other for a week . I asked one guy for his npub. He sent his private key. Dear god.
A social network of the best money is an oxymoron.
Well Steven, the way your spamming the these comments I'd say your building a brand. Baby steps
Toxic as always.
So weird look in social your @ is your brand. Now go find me on Facebook and Instagram.
I saw zaps figured it was lightning because tech debt is cheap. Then I remembered losing hours and crypto on lightning and decided tiktok had a better monetization approach
Imagine getting on alt.sex for the first time and crowing about tcp ip. The best infrastructure is invisible and frictionless
Enfin le problème est dès le départ, heureux qu'on ait des sites Alby qui ont pu permettre de créer un compte avec des clés d'équerre. Je peux témoigner de ma galère en 2O22 dernier sur github où il fallait passer pour créer un compte et des clés. J'étais sur nostr dès le départ avec un compte fantôme que j'ai d'ailleurs gardé. Je pouvais faire des notes et interagir et pas de possibilités de participer aux zaps pourtant j,'y reçois à ce jour des zaps et mon ami qui gère mon portefeuille bitcoin ne voulait guère j' associe nostr. De plus on galère pour savoir ce qui est payant ou non pour les nids interview infos en plus du trop grand nombre de clients, comble de tous ceci on a eu les scandales dans le secteur de la cryptomonnaie, rajouté au fait de celui de Sam et autres sites d'arnaques du coup les ux sont perdus et ont peu confiance aux développeurs qui créent des contenus ou sites dans un protocole décentralisé sans *gendarme* au bord.. Je pense pas être la seule à être prudente sur les données à partager sur nostr demeure pour l'instant dans l'observation et l'analyse.. Ai l'impression de me trouver sur un site qui regroupe tous les aspects des autres réseaux soucieux au niveau ux, dont certains ont des attitudes qui sont typiques voire pires de sites de Meta.. Les développeurs et créateurs ont intérêt à travailler sur une certaine éthique de responsabilite commune afin que cette nouvelle ère de décentralisation soit une réussite totale pour nous tous..Créer des forums ou groupes, thématiques plus intéressants que nos pieds, nos seins pourrait un biais pour hausser le niveau et la teneur des sujets serait très indispensable pour nous tous et pour ceux qui ressentent le besoin de créer d'ouvrir leurs * journaux intimes, rêves, expériences, illusions.. A chaque ux d'avoir cette possibilité de choix pour se préserver ou apprendre des uns et des autres ce quelque soit l'endroit où le milieu on évolue. Enfin que ceux qui vendent du Bitcoin très connus évitent les DM pour faire rechercher un client. On n'a que ce type d'approche et méthode de ventes dans les DM et ils insistent, idem pour ceux qui partagent leurs maux, nostr n'est pas le lieu dit si vous ne dormez pas ou avez envie de filles ou de mecs. Les travailleurs du sexe sur nostr n'embetent ni n'affectent nos interactions sociales mais ils se trouuvent qu'on a des ux qui surfent sur leurs terrains sans se mettre dans ce catégorie de métiers... Désolée si j'ai été brute de décoffrage...c'est un regard et des points sur lesquels j'aurais aimer interpeller certains pairs du pourquoi de certaines attitudes qui ressemblent à celles des KK Jenner !?
An npub/nsec is no different to the end user than username/password, except you can't recover or change your password. Why is this difficult to explain, because it looks worse than a password?
