After seeing all the anti-core hate and propaganda on here, its made me think I should be working on bitcoin core more again.
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Please do. We need it!
Fyi your coinos addresss is down
Switched it to my node
✌️
Build a nostrNode :-) ..
A bitcoin mining network that runs on nostr clients .. in background .. use cell phones to compute hashs in their sleep time and split the bitcoin to every participating nostrich ..
You should not be required to have a terabyte of storage and a dedicated right to mine btc .. all of us should do it like a social activity ..
Then do it, but calling the position of people who are concerned with core currently "propaganda" and "hate" is shallow and counterproductive, in my opinion.
And the sword cuts both ways I've heard a core contributor calling people that disagree with them, cultists, and comparing them to cattle.
There is certainly a very vocal polarized set of people on both sides.
there has been an insane amount of hate directed toward "core devs", aka me and a handful of people. please don't lecture me about being shallow and counterproductive. all the core devs I know are extremely thoughtful when they consider changes, in terms of how it may effect decentralization and incentives.
seeing most of nostr attacking some of the best devs in this space that are working tireless to defend bitcoin against centralizing effects has been pretty disgusting.
please do! all 'projects' have a sad tendency to be undermined by politics and Bitcoin is no exception. anything that makes the system MORE transparent whilst respecting the basics of personal privacy is very important.
After seeing all the anti-core hate and propaganda on here, its made me think I should be working on bitcoin core more again.
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doing it
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Think of it as core love. The stifling kind. The people just want to be heard since the block chain is still a shared resource even if the code that generated it isn't.
But don't mind me. I am not a bitcoiner. To my everlasting shame.
Well, we can probably just, as they say, agree to disagree because I find the core developers turning themselves into some sort of priest class as disgusting as any of the stupid things that I've heard people on the other side of the argument, throwing out.
Again, referring to users of the software as cattle or cultists is disgusting.
And the people who run nodes and even the people who just use the software not only have a right to say what they think about the direction of the project, but a duty to. And I feel as strongly that name-calling and polarized shallow arguments from their side is just as bad. None of that helps.
All it is is an easy way to virtue signal and plant your flag on the side that you want to be recognized as being a member of, in my opinion.
The core dev ire has nothing to do with the changes, it has everything to do with their response to descent. To speak to people with valid criticism with derision is what make people call Core devs "shills" or "dumb" or whatever. You can see how someone pointing out a conflict of interest is a valid criticism, right?
To be clear some of it is mindless inflooencer "Fuck Core" drivel. But that's commonplace in social media. @Sjors Provoost going on about the customer/service provider dynamic differing from open source project is a red herring.
The analogy would be people Open-sourcing a physical vault design. Then the major supplier introducing a vulnerability and saying "you don't pay us so you don't get a say in what vulnerabilities we introduce." While yeah, you can't be forved, speech is speech and the point is if you have a logical rebuttal people will side with you. But, what does a mass exodus tell you? That your counterpoints are not compelling.
Either way, if you bring more freedom to Core, I say join them and make core greater!
I would love for you to get an unless amount of messages from people who say that are going to kill you and we’ll see how long your remain polite and non defensive
i agree the debate is sane.
And perhaps it is a good lesson for future.
Words can have been hurting here, but people were angry about it.
Next time there is a concern about a point, the earlier the debate is, the better it will end (on each side, even if there is only one blockchain).
Of course devs have done a good job.
But i agree you can't say to node owners (that control the network) just don't ask question and stay quiet, we do the best for you, you don't need to understand.
Node are as important as devs and miners.
That's why they have to find a way to communicate before it become a drama. To avoid all this rage words or heavy silence on any side.
I have, I take contrarian positions all of the time and people can be.... Let's say, passionate. I commiserate, I truly do. Threats have never materialized in real life just like when people say things they would never dare say to your face.
Regardless, the moral person acts irrespective to threats. Also, I truly hope you wouldn't wish something you find so distressing on someone else. Perhaps just a turn of phrase to highlight the need for empathy, which I have for the core devs. I would just like the same courtesy for a dissenting opinion.
They would be lucky to have you.
Perhaps they could work together, in future...
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A true swiss-army-man 🤙
Who knows the future.
Perhaps knots and core have to exists both.
And perhaps they will work together.
And perhaps it is a good thing.
To have 2 softwares (only) instead of one.
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This.
full stack bitcoin dev. core, lightning, nostr :P
It is related to this note ?
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if you want the full picture there's no better way!
DO EET!
current airport project. doing eet.
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but if you do that, all the larps will yell at you to not do that!
well knots is core, so two birds with one stone.
We aren’t smart enough to understand how wise it is to encourage shitcoins on Bitcoin
Obviously
Just like woke commie politicians wow
Hell Yeah! 👊
don't say that so loud...too soon bro
Our very own x-men “eye boy” that can see it all from multiple perspectives
👁️👀👁️
The full open stack man 🔥🤙
This is unacceptable to me.
Excellent take by me! :-)
The fact that many Bitcoin Core developers are paid by someone, when that someone is NOT YOU, does not make YOU a customer that gets to demand things. You need to hire developers directly if you want to work on your behalf.
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😍💪💪😉
@jb55 Well said Jack!
Please go and help them Will. Their public relations is in the toilet.
Bitcoin Core is still great, just not
The Bitcoin Core developers. Their flippant “we are just going to push this code. No need to vote because it won’t matter” attitude…that is what made me switch to running all nodes on Knots.
how do you stop paid contributions? contributions are judged based on the contents of the PR. just because its paid work doesn't mean it will be accepted.
I am a bitcoin core developer, what you're saying about me is not true.
I'm not sure you got the point being pushed.
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No. Donations are not a contract for performance of specific tasks or the creation of a fiduciary relationship. They are appreciated of course.
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these are all straw man arguments
I understand that you are a Core developer, man you are famous. Everyone knows about you. Bitcoin Wizard, Core, Damus ect.
I was trying to not be specific, but here goes. I wasn’t trying to imply all Core developers. I am referring to the few that I have heard speak on this subject. Jameson, Peter, Shinobi.
I saw a lot of contributors on the GitHub Core 29 update, but haven’t heard any of them say anything about this update. So I can’t speak on their motivation nor their comments on this matter.
Saying "Swimmers are hairless" doesn't mean YOU are if you are a swimmer. This is a generality about a group of people. There are more than a handful of Core devs who fit that description and therefore easier to generalize in speech. This is not an indictment of you.
You are correct that was not a 100% true statement. I apologize about that. I should use more direct communication when writing.
This just turns “bitcoin core devs” into a vague boogeyman that you can lob insults at to radicalize people and endanger our lives. Bitcoin core devs are pretty diverse and have different opinions on things.
Nah, this is a very recent development in normal parlance. Saying "Women are weaker than men" is not inaccurate because that's why generalities exist. To take the average instead of the specific case.
someone opens a PR and therefore we are all evil? this shit makes no sense.
Opens a PR and blocks people from commenting on it.
No, that doesn’t make you all evil and it isn’t fair to all Bitcoin Core developers.
The few Core developers that have been on the Bitcoin debates in the last few days have made a couple of comments that made me think twice.
Specifically the comments close to “your vote won’t matter” we are pushing this through no matter what. -Jameson Lopp
Or something close to : We don’t care about their opinion because it’s not like they are rich, exchanges, or a big time miner.” I believe that was Shinobi
I could go on, but I’m sure that you have been keeping up with it also.
They only blocked him for 24 hours so he couldn’t insight a riot.
Oh wait, how did they block Mechanic? isn’t Github decentralized?
HHHmmmm, sounds like a problem someone needs to fix.
there was a panel at bitcoin++ mempool that explained the entire situation. just repeating this to make the situation look worse then it is is bullshit. their explanation is completely reasonable. just go watch it and think for yourself instead of repeating bullshit narratives.
It is already been done:
Radicle: the sovereign forge
Sovereign code infrastructure.
I am blocked: 
looks like they leveraged filters to remove spam. don't you support that idea?
Oh damn…. I thought it was only one person. Did you comment on there? Or was it just a blanket ban on anyone that isn’t a developer?
I mean are we really saying there's any credence to stocastic terror? This is a common language shortcut. Instead of saying "Peter Todd, Shinobi, Jamison Lopp, Sjors, and so on" everytime, you group people for brevity. This doesn't imply action or any demonization. I never lobbed insults, so you are doing the same to me by this logic.
Github comments are made for commenting, and my comments do not increase their monthly subscription on Github.
CLASSIC!!!!!
That was good. I support the filters so I have nothing to say about that one.
So your opinion is valuable. We can try and find someone that can go around the filters???
I commented.
they locked the thread because the technical discussion became impossible. its a flaw with github.
I think they should eventually switch to WoT filtering with a git nostr client so they can continue to do proper review even when its being brigaded
Good point. I felt like a snake in the grass when I used specific names. Like I was taking a shot at them or talking shit about them behind their back and they couldn’t defend themselves. That just felt wrong.
Now that Will brought this to my attention… I am going to start using names, or just not use the blanket group names.
Damus is teaching me life lessons!
We already found a way, check this out:
RUN KNOTS. INDEED!
I was nostalgic about keeping one of my nodes on Core until this week. I uppgraded my last node to Knots. As soon as I heard Jameson and Shinobi on 2 different occasions say “we are pushing this update no matter what.” I had no choice. Which is sad because once again…. Here I am with one choice of Bitcoin Knots which is not really a choice because It’s the only.
I am going to laugh every time I think about this today!!!!
I will have to check this out. I hadn’t heard of it yet.
Way too soon lol
this is a weird thread 😳
hey @jb55.
hope you enjoyed Austin. 🙂
Argument: "if you want an opinion you need to fund core devs directly"
Counter: "a lot of us donate to core devs, & we are the lifeblood of the protocol maybe our feedback is valuable"
"If our voices are not heard maybe we'll be forced to redirect our efforts"
There's nothing wrong with my perspective.
There's nothing wrong with adversarial conversations.
is there a point being made here? You are just describing market activity. by all means go pay knots contributors if you think it will create a more censorship resistant bitcoin.
How are you so sure you are smarter than a large number of core devs who think adversarially every day, to ensure incentives are aligned so that filters don’t inadvertently create more and more slipstreams, completely breaking bitcoins censorship resistance properties?
They are thinking at a different level than simply 80iq monkey jpg memes which don’t make any sense. But by all means if you would be rather manipulated by memes instead of technical arguments, then continue to harrass devs, spam memes, and support unhinged developers instead of supporting reasonable discourse on mailing lists, where this stuff is supposed to be resolved.
Maybe have some self reflection and realize this discourse is overall hurting bitcoin more than it is helping.
Your attitude is just as childish as the other side of this argument.
My PoV on this has nothing to do with the specifics of this exact change to Bitcoin...and everything to do with the attitudes of the core devs.
We are allowed to question you, you should have better responses that don't include crying about adversaries ripping you on the internet.
you keep lumping core devs together like they all have the same attitude. core devs are not a homogeneous group of people. It’s just so stupid.
“We are allowed to question you”. You can do that all you want, but no devs have to listen to you. Why would any dev listen to a bunch of people driven by social media campaigns and have zero experience within the project.
Your words are meaningless until you start actually contributing and have proven that you have thought long and hard about the actual issues.
i'll believe he can do something actually good for it when he finally releases damus android, oh yeah, that's not ever going to happen now after teasing it for a year
if you ask me, people who like "cool" things (as defined by the mainstream media) like apple and rust are red flags that they have a shallow character and are toxic inside
We don't need words; We need Knots!
You got me bro,
*some of the core devs including you*
...the rest continues to show a lack of self awareness so I'll leave it at that but....
man you guys gotta stop crying & pretending you're some altruistic bunch.
Yes, we need you
so you want a client decoupled from rational, technical debate (which ensures bitcoin continues to function with working incentives). Instead replacing it with ideologically driven hand wavey moral arguments.
To each their own! Maybe it’s fine to have a rational client and a more ideological client (knots). If it keeps the meme spamming, tinfoil hat, flat earther bitcoiners away from the github repo then that works for me.
You do you, we do we. All good, there is enough sats for everybody.
i like that. there will always be people looking after bitcoin. remember satoshi left and bitcoin didn’t stop. no need to worship!
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The point of having a functional alternative increases the quality of the technical debate.
You're being intellectually dishonest if you don't think so.
Also, if knots ends up having a diverse dev group like core that would be great & I'm sure you'd appreciate that.
To your last sentence, this is the childish bullshit I'm talking about.
Good, take the valid criticism & use it as a fuel.
I know this fiasco has had a positive effect on Bitcoin, core or otherwise 🤟💗.
Github is not the place for that. Nostr is.
But why can't we put arbitrary data on Github? Would there be some kind of spam problem if we did that?
It's not propaganda. You have the freedom to do whatever you want, just as I do.
You definitely should! They would benefit from a fresh perspective. Out of curiosity, is there any change to core that you would strenuously object too? Like what would be going to far?
Its all Greek to me man.
Narrative set by Mechanic and influencers jumped on the wagon. Hoped more people listened to bitcoin++ day 2 panels
Loool
But this PR was presented by core as “mostly unanimous”. How do you guys actually decide on this kind of issue? What’s the vote count for and against this PR? As an external I have no idea whatsoever.
In the debate core/knots presented on bitcoin++ we trust that the 3 core people who spoke represent the majority of core devs thinking, isn’t this the case?
I'd appreciate that. There seems to be a bit too much of arrogance and entitlement from some of the messages I've seen. Working on core should be done with humility and honor - a great responsibility, it is.
It's all healthy though. We need to have family fights to keep focus and attention. It also leads many to study bitcoin more diligently and understand their place as node runners / hashers etc.