Interesting take.

Thanks. They are mutually exclusive.

What if you give up being a sinner to become a Christian and later sin? Giving up sinning does not make you infallible, right?

When you become a Christian you don't lose the ability to sin, but you do lose the ability to enjoy it.

And yet Christ died for sinners

Duh. Before you accept Jesus' free gift of salvation, you're a sinner. After you accept His free gift of salvation, you're a Christian.

My issue with that framing is it implies if you sin you would lose salvation. I think of Christians as both sinners and saints. Similarly to the mystery of Christ being both fully man and fully God at the same time.

Doing some fishing I see.

Just following my Master.

I'll challenge that a bit, though I think we've conversed about this before, as well. When the Apostle Paul wrote, "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost (Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς ἦλθεν εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἁμαρτωλοὺς σῶσαι ὧν πρῶτός εἰμι ἐγώ)" in 1 Timothy 1:15, was it before or after he was a Christian? And if it was after, then how could he speak of himself as the foremost of sinners in the present tense? He did not say "I WAS (ἤμην)," but "I AM(εἰμι) foremost of sinners," even as a Christian. Was Paul wrong to consider himself a sinner?

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy on Me, A Sinner.

Is a Christian's identity found in Jesus Christ, or in the sin Jesus died to save him from?

Taking your identity from Paul instead of Jesus is an error. Paul is not God. Jesus is God, and a Christian's identity is found in Him, not Paul who testifies of Him.

Is 1 Timothy 1:15 inspired Scripture, or merely the words of Paul?

Christ being fully man and fully God is distinct from sinner or Christian. Jesus was the son of man, yet without sin. If a Christian identifies with Jesus, he identifies with His righteousness in flesh and spirit, since the flesh is crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. My framing doesn't imply, "if you sin you would lose your salvation." It implies that a Christian can't identify with Jesus and sin at the same time. The scripture is clear, that if you confess your sins, he is faithful and just to forgive your sins and cleanse you of all unrighteousness.

You're presenting a false dichotomy. It is because we live in Christ that we can be courageous enough to confess that we are sinners. 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Jesus answered your question in Luke 18. The man who named himself a sinner went home justified. The other man who thought himself otherwise did not.

Did Jesus come to save sinners, so they could remain sinners? Or did Jesus come to save sinners so they would become the righteousness of God in Christ, and children of God, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, saints, with access to the Father through Jesus alone? All Scripture is inspired, but only one man in Scripture is God. Since a house divided against itself cannot stand, a Christian cannot build their identity on Christ and sin at the same time, or they will fall. If a Christian identifies as a Christian and a sinner, he deceives himself since a man cannot have two masters. A Christian cannot be a Christian and a sinner at the same time if they've chosen Christ Jesus as their master, Lord, and God, because their identity is not defined by their past or their actions, but by who they choose to center their life on, since, "If you confess your sins, he is faithful and just to forgive your sins and cleanse you of all unrighteousness." How the Father relates to you in Christ is how you are to relate to yourself. He alone is the identificational standard. So if a Christian continues to identify as a sinner after being born again, he is implicitly asserting, "I know better than God." But this is God's reality, not your reality. Excluding the Father from defining who you are in Christ is the sin of pride. "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me."

"Did Jesus come to save sinners so they could remain sinners?" No. In Christ sins are forgiven on account of his blood shed for us, and his righteousness is counted as ours through faith. That is different from recognizing that we remain, in this life, with a sin nature that is being gradually put to death and that we will only finally be rid of after passing into glory. "Or did Jesus come to save sinners so they would become the righteousness of God in Christ, and children of God, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, saints, with access to the Father through Jesus alone?" Yes, he absolutely did. But again, there is an already/not yet aspect to this. We have a down payment on it now in this life, but it will only be fully realized in the resurrection. Trying to act like we have fully received what is promised to us as Christians here and now is what is referred to as an overrealized eschatology. "All Scripture is inspired, but only one man in Scripture is God." You cannot use that to dismiss Paul's self-identification as a sinner, and even the foremost of sinners, post-conversion. Yes, Christ Jesus alone is God and man, but that does not make Jesus words hold more weight than or overrule Paul's words that are Scripture. If all Scripture is God-breathed, then ALL of it is equally the Word of God, regardless of whether God gave it directly in the person of Jesus, or by the Holy Spirit through Paul. Nor can you ignore something Paul said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit because it doesn't fit with your particular emphasis. If Paul said that he is the foremost of sinners in the present tense, though he was a born-again believer, and if Paul wrote those words under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit such that we can consider them the very Word of God, then we must conclude it is not only acceptable but appropriate for Christians to continue to recognize their remaining sin. Not to celebrate it, but to continue to repent of it. "Since a house divided against itself cannot stand, a Christian cannot build their identity on Christ and sin at the same time, or they will fall." I am not in any way suggesting that a Christian should "build their identity on sin" and Christ at the same time. A Christian should be putting sin in themselves to death through the enabling grace of the Holy Spirit secured to them in Christ. They should be dying more and more unto sin and living more and more unto righteousness as they are conformed more and more into the image of Christ "from one degree of glory to another" (2 Corinthians 3:18). Rather, I am acknowledging that Christians still sin, and sometimes sin grievously, despite being Christians. It is a recognition of the reality of remaining corruption, and therefore the necessity of continuing repentance and dependence upon grace, not advocating that Christians should embrace sin or build their identity upon it. "So if a Christian continues to identify as a sinner after being born again, he is implicitly asserting, 'I know better than God.'" That word "identify" is where I think we are getting hung up. When Paul said, "I am the foremost of sinners," was he identifying as a sinner, in the same sense as someone today might "identify" as a cat, or as a woman, though they were born a man? No. That kind of identification embraces what it means to be a cat or a woman and tries to live in accordance with that identification in order to prove that they really are what they identify as. When Paul said, "I am the foremost of sinners," it was a confession of a reality that he could not deny, but that he most certainly did not embrace. Far from any form of pride, Paul was recognizing his absolute dependence upon God and the grace only available through Christ, not only to have forgiveness of sin, but freedom from it and victory over it. We absolutely must take ALL of what Scripture says into account in our understanding. We cannot ignore one thing God says in his Word because something else seems to contradict it. Our identity, the one we should embrace and try to shape our lives around as Christians, is in Christ and his righteousness imputed to us. Yet that does not nullify the fact that until we enter glory, we ARE still sinners who, like Paul, can and should confess that we are still sinners, repenting from it, and putting it to death by the enabling power of the Holy Spirit, and never embracing sin as our pattern of life. If we fail to hold both of these things in balance, then we have wrongly pitted Scripture against Scripture by dismissing something God has said through Paul, rather than rightly using it to help us understand what Jesus said, and what Paul also said elsewhere in his letters.

It's not a false dichotomy. It's a true dichotomy. When a person prior to Christ identifies as a sinner, admitting it is confession of what's true and the mercy he needs. And the Pharisee, pretending he's not a sinner prior to Christ, is lying. But once a man comes to Christ, admits he's a sinner in need of salvation, accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savior, and is born again and becomes a child of God, his old sin identity is crucified with Christ. And then the Father identifies that man through Christ, not sin, because no man can have two masters, and Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me." Therefore my dichotomy is correct, but your categories and sequence are wrong.

Since Christians are new creatures in Christ Jesus, sinning is optional.

You still haven't dealt with my argument. Was Paul incorrect to refer to himself as "the foremost of sinners" though he was a Christian? If so, then how does that fit with divine inspiration of ALL of Scripture? If not, then why should Paul consider himself so great a sinner while we should not? Are we better than Paul?

In 1 Timothy 1:15 Paul, writing as an apostle, to other Christians, calls himself the foremost of sinners in the present tense. You also didn't address 1 John 1:8, another post-conversion verse. From John the apostle, to other Christians. In Colossians 3:5 Paul commands believers to put to death what is earthly in you, which only makes sense if something earthly remains to be put to death. Sanctification is a lifelong process. Luke 18 is a warning. The Pharisee stopped praying the sinner's prayer because he thinks his identity has moved past it. It is not a stage you graduate from.

Is that what God told you?

1 Kings 8:46: "there is no one who does not sin." The Pharisee thought he'd found the exception. So did Levi.

If you reject intimacy with God in your manner, you are aiming down. I hope you stop.

A sin in Hebrew is to err, or miss the target, in simple English to make a mistake. And such were some of you. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Matthew 5:17 Faith without works is dead James 2:14-26 Righteousness is a filthy rag Isaiah 64:6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:1-2 To say all in all, that our relationship with the divine can only be understood in the manner in which a parent understands. When your child is unruly you punish them, when they do good you reward them, sometimes they make honest mistakes, and you forgive them, and bring them back to where they should be. But when they’re unreconcilable it’s time to let them be on their own. But there’s also a falling away from grace, and some come back, and others don’t. Solomon vs. Mark of The Beast. A parent loves their child regardless of what they do but must do what necessary. Ezekiel 18:23 I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of El. John 3:3 The Wicked will burn up in their sins, their data file overwritten with new holy data, a total eradication from the universe, hence the second death. The first is the mortal death caused by physical sin, the second death is death of spirit caused by wickedness of the soul. A just merciful creator who loves his creation would not indefinitely punish a finite being for infinity. Further more eternal life is the reward, if burning in hell is a punishment forever, you still have eternal life which is a preferred state of being than to be null, naught, or void, hence no more. So therefore since enteral life is the reward it is fair to assume the lack of life is the punishment. 1, & 0. That is my conclusion folks.

I wasn't aiming down. I know I am a sinner.

That's not the precipice I'm referring to.

The true precipice is thinking you've arrived.

I think the Bible, a book which says it's perfectly fine to slaughter an entire nation of people who did nothing to you and who posed no threat to you, can safely be ignored as a guide to morality.

The Nations that Yah commanded to wipe out usually partook in bestiality, public rapes, human sacrifice, homosexual orgies, and other such acts of depravity. These weren’t wholesome chungus nations to be clear.

So you actually think that "Yah" knew for sure that the whole nation, even the little kids and moms, deserved to be murdered immediately without the slightest evidence, and you yourself worship this god?

23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? 25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? 26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. 27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: 28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. 29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. 30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. 31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. 32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. 33 And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place. - Genesis 18:23-33 KJV

Utter nonsense. The source of so much of the insanity and malevolence in the world today.

Is that what God said when you talked to Him about it?

He wasn't just talking to me. He said it in 1 John 1:8, where I can't revise it to flatter myself.

If you want to center your identity on Paul, so be it. But you will be missing the greatest gift, identity in Christ. You are one with Jesus Christ. "Let them be one with me as I'm one with you." Paul is good theology, but Jesus is perfect theology. I choose Jesus as my center.

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

"Paul is good theology, but Jesus is perfect theology." That sounds like a denial of inerrancy. If Paul's theology is God-breathed Scripture, then it is perfect theology. I want to base my identity on God's Word; all of it.

The Bible didn't bleed for you.

satan can also quote Scripture.

No, but God did, in his the person Son, and he inspired every word of it, including Paul referring to himself as a sinner. Are you seriously denying the divine inspiration of the Pauline epistles such that we should view Paul's words as less than the very word of God by which we must shape our doctrine and life?

You've twice told me I'm hearing voices, and have now compared me to satan. Thank you, Levi, my brother in Christ.

I've done neither. I've implicitly said you need to connect intimately with God - Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit - making Him your center. For myself, intimate interactions with God through telling Him my secrets, and listening to Him tell me His secrets, centers my whole life in Him. That's what I want for you. I didn't compare you to satan. I was pointing out that Scripture isn't always used for good purposes. Scripture is the word of God, but when it's not viewed through a intimate relationship with God, through God's priorities of honor and love in relational connection, it can be misinterpreted quickly. This is explicitly what I'm saying.

You cannot put Scripture below God in this way. If Scripture is the very Word of God, the means by which he has specially revealed himself to us, then every word of it holds equal weight and is equally to be regarded as authoritative in doctrine and life. Every word of Scripture is infallible and inerrant, whether spoken by Christ and recorded by the gospel writers, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, or through the words the Holy Spirit inspired Paul or any other human author of Scripture to write. You cannot legitimately pit God against Scripture, because you cannot legitimately pit God against himself.

May we all grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord, Levi.

God existed eternally. Then God created the Bible. Therefore, the Bible is God's creation, not God. I'm not pitting God against the Bible. I'm noticing the distinction between them and acknowledging it, and treating them with proper deference. But you don't make that distinction, and until you do you will won't treat the Scripture as the word of God, but as God. And it will cause you problems. Jesus Christ is the center of all things. The Scripture points to Him. Blessings.

Ok, I am going to walk through this, because you seem to be completely missing what I am saying. I am NOT saying that the Scriptures ARE God, nor ought we worship Scripture. Our reverence for Scripture ought to be entirely based on our reverence toward God who gave it through the prophets and apostles he inspired to commit it to writing. That said, the Scripture does not merely point to him. They do point to him, but that is not all. Any human writing may point to Christ, and do so fallibly and imperfectly. The Scriptures, however, are the very Word of God, his infallible and inerrant revelation of himself and his will for us. We see this clearly taught in Scripture itself: 2 Timothy 3:16 - "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God (literally "God-breathed"), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (Caps emphasis mine.) Psalm 12:6-7 - "The words of the LORD are pure words, like silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. You shall keep them, O LORD, You shall preserve them from this generation forever." God has preserved his Word in Scripture, and it is the only infallible rule of faith and life. We cannot know God rightly except through his revealed Word. The Scriptures, therefore, are our highest authority until Christ returns. Yes, Christ is absolutely the center of all things and the one we should worship as our only Savior and Lord, not the Scriptures. Yet, we cannot know Christ apart from the Word. God determined to reveal Christ and the message of the gospel, that salvation is to be found through him alone, by inspiring specially called men to write it down. Therefore, when Scripture says something, it must not be ignored or treated as a lesser authority than God himself, because it is God who breathed out those words. When Scripture speaks, it is with the same authority as if God himself was speaking audibly. This is no different from a king dictating a letter to be sent out as a proclamation to his people, and affixing his seal to it. Because the words are his words and it bears his seal, the proclamation is to be considered of the same authority as though the king himself had come and delivered it as a speech. The letter containing his proclamation is not the king, nor should the letter be shown the honor that only the king is due, but its message is treated with the same authority as the king, because it is his word. So when God inspired Paul to refer to himself as the foremost of sinners, we cannot treat God's words through Paul as any less authoritative as Christ's words. To do so, or worse, to suggest that we should ignore what Paul said, would be to deny that the Pauline epistles are the infallible and inerrant Word of God. You cannot deny that it is proper for Christians to continue to consider themselves as sinners after their conversion, without simultaneously saying that Paul was wrong to call himself a sinner. If you are stating that Paul was wrong to call himself a sinner, then you are stating that the words of Paul in 1 Timothy are not inerrant. You are left with three options at that point: First, that Scripture is not inerrant, but contains various errors. Second, that 1 Timothy is not Scripture. Or finally, that you are wrong and it is in fact proper for Christians to refer to themselves as sinners.

You aren't making the distinction in Scripture between what is presented, and what should be. If Paul calls himself a sinner, should you also call yourself a sinner? If Paul goes to prison, should you go to prison? Jesus Himself is perfect theology. And viewing Scripture from any other center will distort how you identify yourself.

I think this is where you and I have a fundamental difference. You believe God can only be known rightly through Scripture. The truth is God can be interacted with personally and intimately, face to face, Spirit to spirit, person to person. This doesn't remove the need for Scripture in our lives. This is a major distinction.

Indeed. It is a fundamental difference in epistemology. I rely primarily on the objective Word of God as the only infallible and inerrant standard for both doctrine and life, and while not discounting the importance of vital spiritual experience of God through prayer, worship, and other means of grace, I always weigh what I "hear" through those means by the sure and unchanging revelation God gave us in Scripture. Your epistemology seems to rely, and correct me if I am wrong, primarily on your subjective spiritual experience and the Word of God is more of a secondary help to that, but cannot overrule it, since you view your experience as a kind of direct revelation straight from God to you personally.

"Man lives not by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." The question is, what is God speaking now? Is it Scripture? Is it direct? Is it both? And, can you discern it relative to God's character? "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

I suppose a very important question to clear up would be this: Do you affirm that Scripture is the Word of God and therefore it is wholly infallible and inerrant? Or do you hold that there are things Scripture affirms that are actually not true in the way that they were intended to be understood?

Are you reducing Scripture to one function? “The word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” — Hebrews 4:12 - I think your framing of Scripture oversimplifies the Word of God. But God is alone God of His word.

No. It's a question about one aspect of the nature of Scripture, and it is very telling that you aren't answering it plainly and directly.

Was Satan speaking the truth to Jesus when he used scripture to tempt him?

You still haven't answered my question. Are you refusing to do so? Satan was twisting Scripture when he quoted it to tempt Jesus. The passages he quoted were themselves true, in the way they were intended to be understood by God when he inspired them to be written, but not in the way Satan used them.

You've acknowledged the important distinction. That's why oneness with God is important to interpreting Scripture truly. John 17:21–23 "May they all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us, so that the world may believe you sent me. I have given them the glory you have given me, so that they may be one as we are one. I am in them and you are in me, so that they may be made completely one, that the world may know you have sent me and have loved them as you have loved me." Without oneness with God, it's harder to see what is true. "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me." The inerrancy point is besides the point if you don't come to know Jesus and interpret Scripture through Him. Without The Truth, Jesus, you can make Scripture say whatever you want. With Jesus as the center of Scripture and life, inerrancy is extremely important.

That's an interesting way of framing it. Can you define for me what exactly you mean by "oneness with God"?

I’ve been blocked by Levi for getting into these exact type of debates bro. Places his feelings over the truth of Gods word. He won’t see this but I thought I’d put in my two pieces.

Unfortunately, Levi moves like your stomach does after eating a week old pizza. It’s all based on feelings and will sprinkle in Gods word where he can. Sorry to interrupt. But to narrow it down, it’s emotionalism. He’s tried this with @DELETED as well correcting the way he parents as if he’s not the head over his children.

For your reference. nevent1qqsvt035vr0crwj506ufu2fmudnejjtn9tdkp42m05a6u0mndpffrxgecy4kt

"oneness with God" 🚩🚩🚩 There is only union with Christ. The creator/creature distinction never blurs. This phrase often pops up with progressive "christians" trying to trojan horse their mystical-tinged, new age religion into Christianity. Mark and avoid these ones.

Exactly. We are united to Christ, but I would never couch that in terms of "oneness with God," nor would any Bible-believing Christian I know. Beginning to believe this guy is just an outright heretic.

Oneness with God, as far as I can tell, is nothing hidden through involved relationship. Genesis 18:17–33 Yahweh said, “Will I hide from Abraham what I do, since Abraham has surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed in him? For I have known him, to the end that he may command his children and his household after him, that they may keep the way of Yahweh, to do righteousness and justice; to the end that Yahweh may bring on Abraham that which he has spoken of him.” Yahweh said, “Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will go down now, and see whether their deeds are as bad as the reports which have come to me. If not, I will know.” The men turned from there, and went toward Sodom, but Abraham stood yet before Yahweh. Abraham came near, and said, “Will you consume the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous within the city? Will you consume and not spare the place for the fifty righteous who are in it? May it be far from you to do things like that, to kill the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be like the wicked. May that be far from you. Shouldn’t the Judge of all the earth do right?” Yahweh said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare the whole place for their sake.” Abraham answered, “See now, I have taken it on myself to speak to the Lord, although I am dust and ashes. What if there will lack five of the fifty righteous? Will you destroy all the city for lack of five?” He said, “I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there.” He spoke to him yet again, and said, “What if there are forty found there?” He said, “I will not do it for the forty’s sake.” He said, “Oh don’t let the Lord be angry, and I will speak. What if there are thirty found there?” He said, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.” He said, “See now, I have taken it on myself to speak to the Lord. What if there are twenty found there?” He said, “I will not destroy it for the twenty’s sake.” He said, “Oh don’t let the Lord be angry, and I will speak just once more. What if ten are found there?” He said, “I will not destroy it for the ten’s sake.” Yahweh went his way as soon as he had finished communing with Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place. Exodus 33:7–23 Now Moses used to take the tent and pitch it outside the camp, far away from the camp, and he called it “The Tent of Meeting.” Everyone who sought Yahweh went out to the Tent of Meeting, which was outside the camp. When Moses went out to the Tent, all the people rose up, and everyone stood at their tent door, and watched Moses until he had gone into the Tent. When Moses entered into the Tent, the pillar of cloud descended, stood at the door of the Tent, and Yahweh spoke with Moses. All the people saw the pillar of cloud stand at the door of the Tent, and all the people rose up and worshiped, everyone at their tent door. Yahweh spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. Moses returned into the camp, but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, didn’t depart from the Tent. Moses said to Yahweh, “Behold, you tell me, ‘Bring up this people,’ and you haven’t let me know whom you will send with me. Yet you have said, ‘I know you by name, and you have also found favor in my sight.’ Now therefore, if I have found favor in your sight, please show me your ways, now, that I may know you, so that I may find favor in your sight; and consider that this nation is your people.” He said, “My presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.” Moses said to him, “If your presence doesn’t go with me, don’t carry us up from here. For how would people know that I have found favor in your sight, I and your people? Isn’t it that you go with us, so that we are separated, I and your people, from all the people who are on the surface of the earth?” Yahweh said to Moses, “I will do this thing also that you have spoken; for you have found favor in my sight, and I know you by name.” Moses said, “Please show me your glory.” He said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim Yahweh’s name before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.” He said, “You cannot see my face, for man may not see me and live.” Yahweh also said, “Behold, there is a place by me, and you shall stand on the rock. It will happen, while my glory passes by, that I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and will cover you with my hand until I have passed by; then I will take away my hand, and you will see my back; but my face shall not be seen.” Psalm 63:1–8 God, you are my God. I will earnestly seek you. My soul thirsts for you. My flesh longs for you, in a dry and weary land, where there is no water. So I have seen you in the sanctuary, watching your power and your glory. Because your loving kindness is better than life, my lips shall praise you. So I will bless you while I live. I will lift up my hands in your name. My soul shall be satisfied as with the richest food. My mouth shall praise you with joyful lips, when I remember you on my bed, and think about you in the night watches. For you have been my help. I will rejoice in the shadow of your wings. My soul stays close to you. Your right hand holds me up. John 10:22–30 It was the Feast of the Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. The Jews therefore came around him and said to him, “How long will you hold us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you don’t believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name, these testify about me. But you don’t believe, because you are not of my sheep, as I told you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” John 15:1–17 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the farmer. Every branch in me that doesn’t bear fruit, he takes away. Every branch that bears fruit, he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already pruned clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I in you. As the branch can’t bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. “I am the vine. You are the branches. He who remains in me and I in him bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man doesn’t remain in me, he is thrown out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you remain in me, and my words remain in you, you will ask whatever you desire, and it will be done for you. “In this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; and so you will be my disciples. Even as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, even as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love. “I have spoken these things to you, that my joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be made full. “This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for the servant doesn’t know what his lord does. But I have called you friends, for everything that I heard from my Father, I have made known to you. “You didn’t choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain; that whatever you will ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you. “I command these things to you, that you may love one another.” John 17:20–26 “Not for these only do I pray, but for those also who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. “The glory which you have given me, I have given to them, that they may be one, even as we are one, I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that you sent me and loved them, even as you loved me. “Father, I desire that they also whom you have given me be with me where I am, that they may see my glory, which you have given me, for you loved me before the foundation of the world. “Righteous Father, the world hasn’t known you, but I knew you; and these knew that you sent me. I made known to them your name, and will make it known, that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I in them.” Romans 8:12–17 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God. For you didn’t receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God; and if children, then heirs: heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him. 1 John 1:1–4 That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we saw, and our hands touched, concerning the Word of life — and the life was revealed, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us — that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us. Yes, and our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. And we write these things to you, that our joy may be fulfilled.

Sad to see you participate in their toxicity and character assassination, instead of staying honorable and engaging in good faith. Oneness with God is simply the language of Jesus. I guess you're calling him a heretic too. This will be our last interaction because I don't accept ad hominem arguments. Bless you.

Why would you engage in slander and ad hominem when I've remained honorable and engaged you in good faith? You haven't even responded to my last Scriptural answer to your question. I've seen this behavior so many times. People get confronted with truth and then attack me personally instead of looking for the truth. I thought you were the exception. It's ironic that prioritizing intimacy with Jesus would get me called a heretic. But He said that since they hate Him, they would hate us. You are not demonstrating the two greatest commandments, which tells me you aren't interested in engaging in good faith. I sincerely hope you withdraw from the gossipers' world, because it will damage you. Blessings on your journey.