i was today years old when i learned Wavlake is a walled garden, the only music displayed on there is the music that gets uploaded through them..
wtf dude thats like if i was to post this note right now on client *x* a true nostr client
but youβre using client *y* a centralized app that only reads notes created inside the client, youβll never see my note from client *x*
Yep.
Tracks uploaded to wavlake show up everywhere in the valueverse and all v4v PC2.0 apps but only tracks uploaded directly to wavlake will show up in wavlake
This is why I've been saying for a very long time it's better to just upload music in regular kind 1 posts
Like I did with this grateful dead edit for Digit (who is alive)
If you distribute through wavlake its available through wavlake and rss but not if you distribute through somwwhere else. Ok got it. So with 10% it charges way less than apple or spotify, but the walled garden part is not the best.
I used to put stuff on soundcloud but moved to wavlake since they went the constant ads route and memberships
You already have it. Host your own damn mp3s and RSS file on your own site. Here's a tool, that's 100% v4v, meaning you get to choose the split, all the way down to 0%. It builds the RSS for you. All you have to do is paste the links to your artwork and mp3 files. Host that shit on a blossom server, put the feed on github, good to go, doesn't cost a dime. Distributing your music shouldn't cost you 10%.
If someone zaps a track on Wavlake 10000 sats, Wavlake takes 1000 sats. Seems like I would need a lot of streams to get to that. But I understand your point about the walled garden
If youβre on Damus you can click on our conversations, I just went through it and didnβt see it /: but i have heard of these tools before but im very bad with tech so need a guide or step by step tutorial but yeah nobody ever told me it was a walled garden
Apples to oranges. Spotify makes money by using your content (as an artist) to sell subscriptions and they kick the artist a $0.003 "commission" on the artists own IP.
The wavlake model takes a 10% split which is more akin to what happens with the middlemen in the existing industry taking a cut of profits. Not as egregious as other middlemen though. It all varies but traditionally management will take 15%, distro takes 20%, and the label takes 25% leaving the artist with only 40% before any expenses...
Not Pootube turorials but there is a video @boo-bury put together with frankiepaint going over how to use @StevenB's MusicSideProject to self host your music / create a DeMu RSS feed and it's available on every Podcasting 2.0 app with a video (search Thunder Road Media #0001 on Fountain or wherever you wanna listen/watch)
Wavlake is a host provider and V4V Nostr client. They are a walled garden by choice. Walls keep your music in, protected, but it also keeps the rent seekers out who would otherwise profit from your work.
If I was a musician and didnβt want my music getting distributed everywhere for free, such as Spotify, Apple, etc I would put my music there.
There is nothing stopping a musician from distributing everywhere as well. It just comes down to whether you prefer a exclusiveness or not.
Btw - this is the difference between putting your music on Wavlake and Fountain in essence.
Surprised you didnβt knowβ¦ Just my two sats. π
Hell yeah, decentralized tutorial videos, TTT style. I didn't ask for it, one of the members of the community saw a need and filled it. That's the time and talent part of the Time, Talent, Treasure model.
Thatβs why Iβm asking. I have no idea what the value verse represents. Is it only platforms that pay roughly .003 per stream? Are some places more generous?
@QW The wavelake walls dont keep your music in, it keeps other music out. Wavlake still publishes to an rss feed which is accessible publicly and the tracks can be downloaded.
The entire reason rss distribution makes sense is it allows for the freedom of wide distribution. Walled gardens goes against the ethos.
Its their platform so they can do what they want. But that should be transparent and users and artists should know what's happening.
If you guys do this, turn on a camera and record it. It doesn't have to be anything slick. It shows me how actual users think so I can make the process more intuitive, it gives a tutorial for others to follow, and we're doing it. It's not us waiting for a company to give us the tools to take back control of our creativity, it's us coming together and doing it ourselves. v4v isn't about the money, it's about the community. Building our own shit together is way more valuable, let's never forget that.
Spotify pays 0.003 per stream. Other legacy music platforms (apple music, pandora, etc) have their own payout structures. None of them pay very much. You're basically renting your content to them for fractions of pennies while they get filthy rich off of your PoW.
Valueverse refers to tracks uploaded through an rss feed, more specifically the ones set up on an rss feed which allows boosting/zapping (aka podcasting 2.0).
Generally, the valueverse embodies much of the FOSS ethics that we hold important in nostr and bitcoin.
An rss feed is basically a huge text file. Within that text file it has tags that references things like where the audio file or album art is saved. For it to be PC2.0 compliant, it would need tags referencing the splits (like an lnaddress or node address)
There's lots of options! I use rssblue which does charge $5 a month but they make it easy to build the rss feed. There are other providers out there - I'll let the podcast ppl give suggestions on alternatives @DuhLaurien βπ»π½π¨@ChadF and 33 others@StevenB@Sir Spencer, Wolf of KC πΊ
If you host your own website you can just upload the file yourself, grab an rss template, and point the tag towards where it was uploaded. That's the free DIY solution.
Here's a feed I made for my buddy's band. It cost me 5000 sats, and that was a few years ago, so maybe $3. I think I have 10 years of hosting on it from satellite.earth. Check the links to the mp3 and image, you'll see it's all hosted on satellite.earth. If you plan on ever changing the feed, it needs to be at an address where the file contents can change without changing the file name, so a Blossom server may not be the best solution... yet. That's why I hosted the actual RSS on github, for free.
Image, mp3, RSS feed, it's all you need. Super easy.
Yep - what they say there is true. They just dont mention that they're not full participants in the open protocol like everyone else.
Tracks on an rss feed ultimately get pushed to the podcast index. This index represents all the valueverse content (and then some). Apps will pull from this index, referencing the PC2.0 compliaent rss feeds that are compatible with your particular app, and deliver that content to you as a user.
Wavlake excludes everything but the feeds published through them whereas all other v4v apps dont discriminate as long as the feed is technically compatible.
Dude, if you're on Wavlake, you're in the Valueverseβ’. If you like Wavlake, use Wavlake. They make it easy, and they make all the music on Wavlake available in any podcast player. However, their player only plays Wavlake music, it doesn't allow you to play non-Wavlake music on it, so if someone decided they want to host their music on RSS Blue or self host it, it's available in all the podcast apps, but it's not available on Wavlake. Wavlake is a check valve, their music can go out, but nobody else's music can come in. You decide if that's the sort of ecosystem you want to support.
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<title><![CDATA[Wait Destiny ]]></title>
<description><![CDATA[Destiny waits for no man, but will it wait for Sara Jade? The answers can come in mysterious ways... Like when you are at a crosswalk in Madrid, Spain, thinking about your dreams, and you misread a Walt Disney logo as "Wait Destiny"! A trick of the mind? Or a message? Whatever the case, inspiration struck Sara Jade!
"Wait Destiny" is an elevating Nu Disco track enriched with funk bass, transcendent soundscapes and dance appeal. Reimagined from it's 2020 debut on YouTube, Sara Jade has turned up the rhythmic heat with heavy hitting dance drums and is hailing the mothership with rich choral harmonies. Cleverly layered instrumentation gives the listener plenty of melodic ear candy to sink their teeth into on replay so that each listen feels fresh. ]]></description>
<link>https://wavlake.com/sara-jade%3C/link%3E
<generator>Wavlake</generator>
<lastBuildDate>Tue, 20 May 2025 21:34:25 GMT</lastBuildDate>
<atom:link href="https://wavlake.com/feed/music/699644a5-a5b4-4c2d-ad70-e90977e60c34%22 rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"/>
<author><![CDATA[Sara Jade]]></author>
<podcast:medium>music</podcast:medium>
<podcast:remoteItem medium="publisher" feedGuid="a8ad6318-7312-4f77-adbf-80b54944c8da" feedUrl="https://wavlake.com/feed/artist/a8ad6318-7312-4f77-adbf-80b54944c8da%22%3E
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<itunes:author>Sara Jade</itunes:author>
<itunes:summary>Destiny waits for no man, but will it wait for Sara Jade? The answers can come in mysterious ways... Like when you are at a crosswalk in Madrid, Spain, thinking about your dreams, and you misread a Walt Disney logo as "Wait Destiny"! A trick of the mind? Or a message? Whatever the case, inspiration struck Sara Jade!
"Wait Destiny" is an elevating Nu Disco track enriched with funk bass, transcendent soundscapes and dance appeal. Reimagined from it's 2020 debut on YouTube, Sara Jade has turned up the rhythmic heat with heavy hitting dance drums and is hailing the mothership with rich choral harmonies. Cleverly layered instrumentation gives the listener plenty of melodic ear candy to sink their teeth into on replay so that each listen feels fresh. </itunes:summary>
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<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sara Jade]]></dc:creator>
<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jul 2023 17:41:00 GMT</pubDate>
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This is a very good thread for nostriches interested in v4v music and understanding the underlying plumbing.
Don't trust, verify.
Not all v4v apps are the same. Some more sovereign/FOSS than others. Its up to you to pick your flavor and everyone is welcome to pick what they like. But its important to understand what you're picking and the tradeoffs therein.
View quoted note β
And he's got one of my favorite bitcoin songs ever, die die my dollar π
Thanks for this discussion, like anything that abstracts the tech for noobs, there are tradeoffs. Keep letting people know that it's all within reach and easy to self host w/o being a dev.
I'll get there, we'll get there
I've heard it, loud and clear. I could feel the Texas freedom vibe from the podcasting 1 world to 2.0., former music indusry folks learning about bitcoin, and constructive discussion like this.
I learned v4v from all those great music shows and @Nunya Bidness, with podverse, so yeah as long as everyone keeps talking about it from rants to friendly reminders, it gets out. Wavlake held my hand in this, and it feels like it's own subnetwork or channel in the way that they also want to curate a/their culture. Crossing from aggregation to curation.
So yeah, let's all DIY but there's a billions of normies that will come for the freedom sats if it's easy, and learn from us along the way.
Yeah, it's a shame. It would be good if there was a real nostr client for music. Wavlake is ok for discoverability, most other solutions arent great for discoverability. I want to see music that is popular from my friends playlists. A client that could do that well and was truely open would be great.
I'm not sure I see Wavlake as a true walled garden - might be a bit harsh! Music uploaded to Wavlake is available in other v4v apps too. Its more like a short garden fence, where the inhabitants are free to talk to the neighbours, but the neighbours are not allowed to come for a BBQ because they're a bit weird.
I'm assuming one reason they have is to incentive artists to use their hosting and custodial wallet service, for which they make 10% on incoming artist boosts - AFAIK that's their biz model . Artists then get to be featured on a really well produced, well visited v4v music discovery platform.
Do I agree? Not sure. I like the idea of pure decentralised services too, but has anyone else done a better job than Wavlake yet at marketing and product delivery? Maybe if they do, Wavlake will be forced to re-think the garden fence.
All in all though, Wavlake is a great service and has introduced a shit-ton of artists to v4v.
Look forward to seeing some healthy competition!
View quoted note β
It may have been lost to time in the relay sauce
bout to do a show right now but I'd be happy to help you get set up sometime if we both can find a good time to get together on it π§‘
Fuck Fountain playlists. Put it in an RSS feed like @ChadF and 33 others did. All this in app exclusive stuff, and we already have the tools to make it so you own your own playlist, playable in any app.
Fuck it, I made a thing. It's unpolished, it's published on satellite.earth. You can host your own music in less than 15 minutes. Try it out.
Here it is in the Podcast Index
Dude @marykateultra and I have been hosting a weekly podcast playing exclusively self-hosted music because those artists are getting ALIENATED AND IGNORED. Check it out sometime, there's a huge pool of talent in the DeMu sphere already and it has been growing organically.
If, you choose to pull your music there's one thing to keep in mind. The value time splits work by utilizing a GUID tag in your RSS feed. You'll want to preserve those GUIDs (aka copy them and put them in your feeds) so that any songs featured on a podcast can maintain its value time split to you. There's a feed level GUID and a GUID for each track. Go to
click on one of your albums, view RSS feed, and do a search for a GUID to see what Im talking about.
I've only done it once, back when I pulled Rusty Gate from Wavlake and self hosted the feed. That was a couple years ago at this point so Im a little fuzzy on how the process works. I can ask tho if you want to do this.
My biggest, baddest, and boldest (this is not professional advice) is by far swing by the Zeronode IRC some time. It's where a lot of hobbyist podcasters and musicians congregate and Podcasting 2.0 (the actual show) hosts it chatroom there. A lot of the names in this thread are in there and it's way easier to talk stuff thru there, just ask @Hash Power Music
Here's the link: https://behindthesch3m3s.chat/
Use channels #greenroom #bowlafterbowl or #homegrownhits
Hope to see you there someday o7
Here's a small data point. For me personally, 10% is high but whatever. If people wanna play that that's their prerogative. 10% of 4655 feeds with a whole contingent of nostr influencers focused on funneling people thru their pipes...it just becomes noise to me. LNBeats is the only web app I use for music and it's solely because of the DeMu button.
I wholeheartedly endorse jumping in the #greenroom chat. The truly freedom principled music people in this space are gathered there.
That shit was confusing AF for me to get set up in the beginning but that's cause im a stoned retard and never used IRC before. But once I figured it out (and likely annoyed some ppl in the process) its a great resource & community of helpful assholes πβ€οΈ
Sir, this is a Nostr. I don't know what it means over yonder where you come from, but over here, #V4V means it promotes Bitcoin. Therefore, Wavlake, fountain is V4V and Bandcamp is not. Simple as.
I haven't really thought about it. I have them in Sovereign Feeds. I'm torn with MSP, because I'm trying to make it as simple as possible for musicians, but it does make sense to give them a tool to make their entire catalog findable in one place.
There's no need to "protect" V4V art because if it can be stolen, it ain't V4V. Art that's V4V is free and open.
It's also not V4V if there's a mandatory split of any kind.
Hilariously there is NO exclusivity for WL feeds because they can be played on ALL Podcasting 2.0 apps. But WL doesn't reciprocate, so DeMu artists aren't playable there...which is fine because self-hosted musicians don't want their sats custodied anyway. That's how rugpulls happen. π
Friendly reminder that Bandcamp only takes 15% (or 10% if you earn more than $5000USD) and offers WAYYY better protection than #Wavlake does. They also let you price your music as you please, while also letting the consumer choose to give you more if they want to.
Just my two Bitcoins.
