the cashu people will probably win the nostr wallet wars but it will be a sad day for my non-custodial lightning node. I guess I will just stop zapping when that day comes, I don't want to use a custodial node or run cashu just to zap.
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I feel that… although I am custodial LN at the moment (long LN haitus) I previously ran some long-lived LND servers.
Thats why I dont anymore 🤣 had a hardware failure and my backups werent current enough. Not to mention how annoying it was then to have a non-custodial lightning address. Ill just use minibits for the time being lol
non-custodial lightning address is easy if you have a cln node! (tool i built)
sendsats.lol
lightning addresses for CLN nodes
well i guess you still need to run a zap script as well… but still
Its been a while, but I had a feeling that would be GREATLY simplified by now
Cashu wallets take normal lightning payments. You don't have to use custodial or even know what cashu is to keep zapping
Eh, relies too much on third parties for my liking, but still cool
The irony of saying this while using Minibits lol
What if cashu gets integrated in lightning nodes for non-interactive anonymous payments? You could nut-zap from your integrated mint and the recipient could redeem whenever online. Redeem could be via LN again.
If there is a way to do that natively in LN, let me know. Until then I don't think that nuts are such a bad approach.
yeah i have code up on my github for it as well somewhere. It just uses commando to fetch invoices from your node
weirdest take, cashu depends fully on lightning. You can (and should) auto convert on receive and send. you wont even notice, and neither will your recipient, and youll both use LN to do it!
Its only a weird take if you don’t consider the implications of a cashu-first nostr wallet ecosystem. if nostr clients bake in cashu as a dependency you can’t just do non-custodial lighting with your own node.
You need to run cashu which just makes it even more difficult to do non-custodial lightning which is already difficult enough for people. So you now need to run bitcoin core, lightning node, and now a cashu node.
Before i worked on damus i was working on tech to make to easier to run lightning non-custodially. We should be making non-custodian easier not harder. At least thats what i thought bitcoiners were interested in.
I would probably end up doing that
Starts making a lot more sense once you start zapping around ecash from your own mint that others can withdraw to their wallets.
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I guess for people who do have the ability to self custody lightning will have the ability to install cashu. My node goes down all the time though, people would get pissed when they can’t spend willbucks 😆
Right now they only get pissed when they can’t zap me 😅
I have zero confidence in cashu : one computer on someone’s home ??
Wtf 😳
🤣 That's the magic of distributed custodians.
> I zapped you. But have I ???
I like when zaps come from my node I know for sure i received a payment. Thats a solid foundation i can use to build tools to whitelist DMs and stuff.
You couldn’t use ecash from the willmint as a proof of received funds until you actually redeemed it to your lighting node. I haven’t looked into how ecash zaps work but you couldn’t use received ecash in the same way you would a zap.
Playing out the scenario, i receive cashu tokens, i swap em out by issuing an invoice to the mint from my own LN node. Its an extra step, but my node hasnt disappeared or become less central to the experience or ability to self custody.
imo thinking of cashu as a custodial replacement for LN is an error in framing. theres no such thing as a cashu node, for one.
From my understanding of it the mint could be insolvant. Which could happen from untrustworthy mints.
Though I like the appeal of running my own mint.
Your node is always welcomed over here at podtards.com
Isn't eCash just custodial lightning with extra steps that help with privacy, though? The vast majority of zapping is already done via custodial lightning as things stand, and one of the biggest pain-points for new users is figuring out how to get set up to send and receive zaps, so I really do like the onboarding experience of clients that have built-in NIP-60 wallets.
If there was a way to make self-custody lightning as seamless an experience for the average user, then I would be all for it. I use my own node for zaps 99% of the time, after all.
I just hope we continue to be able to use Nostr clients that integrate eCash with our own self-custody lightning wallet if we want to. That’s going to take us being vigilant and push-back when client devs don’t include that option.
Many contexts where it makes sense.
A company could pay its employees from its mint, obfuscating who received which coins, then each employee could convert at will his tokens.
A family could run a mint for all members, maintaining a single lightning node for everyone.
Etc...
Just use @npub1nyyh...7gan if you want privacy.
At least it’s a federation with super big companies in bitcoin ?
Yeah i like these use cases
Node running has been slipping away in the Bitcoin community for years now. I've heard podcast host after podcast host tell me it's too hard to do.
visit podtards.com if your looking for fellow #noderunners
have you looked at people's LUD16s? almost everybody and their mother are on custodial zappers, even people that run LN nodes.
Cashu is strictly an improvement over CUSTODIAL lightning.
And since it uses lightning, you can just continue zapping without ever running a mint or having a sat under custody, the only difference for you will be that instead of paying a bolt11 of wallet of satoshi or strike you'll pay a bolt11 of one of hundreds/thousands of mints.
Different techs with different compromises.
Fedimint also exists.
I like the "simplicity" of cashu. It helps making for better custodians.
I am aware, i am just trying to think of how to integrate it without overcomplicating everything
There is no nostr wallet war. There is Primal and there's the rest that either doesn't work, is a PITA to set up and use, or is centralized af.
We can complain all day about why nobody is running a node. We can wait another 10 years and it still won't happen.
The Cashu people will keep building open source magic internet money tools for today. Join us.
the cashu people will probably win the nostr wallet wars but it will be a sad day for my non-custodial lightning node. I guess I will just stop zapping when that day comes, I don't want to use a custodial node or run cashu just to zap.
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I respect that of course . I only try to understand why everyone crazy with cashu. lol
I’m not on a custodial zapper.
"*almost* everybody" ;)
I think the stat a year ago or so was like north of 90% were custodial, and I'm guessing it's only gotten worse as well as zap volume not keeping up with nostr growth when alby started to shutdown their custodial offering.
The problem with cashu, is that unlike lightning, the cashus on your mint, mean nothing to me. And my cashus mean nothing to you. Unless you redeem them from me or I redeem yours from you.
At that point, we are back to zapping. 🤣🤣
In Nostr, I think it's because it can be seamlessly included to your sub so that you get zap ability without setup as a user. See NIP-60 (https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/60.md)
Transmitting cashu tokens is as simple as transmitting some text. Redeeming requires communication with the mint.
I'm a noob, is it bad that I zap using no KYC coinos?
coinos is great, we are switching to it in damus as our default wallet
I am not terribly surprised node-running is suffering. Do you know somewhere to see the actual numbers of reachable nodes, preferably with a graph over time? #asknostr might, if you don't.
I feel like one of the few who wants to be a full participant in the network, running my own node that I use for both my on-chain and lightning transacting, as well as for creating my own block templates for my miners to hash. But I also know that I really can't expect that level of head-first dive into all things #Bitcoin from most of my friends and family. Hence why I am glad tools like Alby Hub exist so I can easily host my family members' lightning wallets for them.
I need it’s very well integrated .. like lightning 👌🔥
I'm not sure on the network info but personally I have a lightning node with 14 channels (4 of them are part of a ring of fire) and they are all to podcasters and musicians that are part of the podcasting 2.0 community. The only non-pleb channels I have are to and from the Podcast Index itself.
I was using the Alby hosted wallet for years but the switch to AlbyHub is what finally made me fire up a lightning node of my own for personal use and to help other nodes connect to each other.
Are we all crazy? Maybe but it's been working just fine for years now.
Alby Hub was the game-changer for me to be able to use my node as my daily-driver as well.
I am pretty tech literate- self custody, run nodes, understand most of the high level stuff etc. There is no way I'm running non-custodial Lightning. The Primal wallet works fine and there has to be some trust abstraction at some point in this space.I just don't see why we would need to have a more complex setup to Zap a few hundred bucks in a year.
Ecash should be the default with the option to connect your own self-custodial wallet. I’ve run a node for 4 years and will continue to do so but you have to accept that most people won’t.
The masses barely understand lightning wallets, let alone cashu…
Can it tell whether they've been paid?
i have a zap script for that. Its super robust and powers all the zaps on my posts
GitHub
GitHub - jb55/cln-nostr-zapper: A CLN script that sends nostr lightning zaps when a payment is received (NIP-57)
A CLN script that sends nostr lightning zaps when a payment is received (NIP-57) - jb55/cln-nostr-zapper
I don't disagree
dude... this url redirects to different shit
not cool chad, not cool
Yep, they’ve constantly been adding new features, ecash, NWC, self custody.
We use it for our POS at the cafe and it’s easily the best option out there.
96%
It’s easy with Alby Hub or any NWC wallet to have an ln address
You can do asynchronous payments selfcustodially with NWC. No need for cashu here
Same here! Alby finally connected my node, nostr and a lightning wallet for me.
this is my next step, setting up Alby Hub. Sometimes hard to run services like this when offgrid. But totally worth trying and learning from it.
#bitcoin #decentralize
Great news! I appreciate you letting me know, I just stumbled upon it ;o)
I agree. I just don't think it's one size fits all. It's fine to have a non-custodial wallet for some, but it's wayyy easier for normies and new entrants to just use a custodial wallet for small payments. Obviously I would never recommend having a ton of money in a custodial service