Replies (60)
this is already a thing with anchor watch i think
Only for companies, no?
But that would be difficult, wouldn't it? You'd have to be trusting them to protect your assets in a system designed to be trustless. Granted, people have to be able to trust their wallets also, but that's where the open source model benefits everyone. You can't truly open source a policy, which makes blind trust more of a requirement.
maybe it's doable with the model of bitkey, an insurance from the server side seed
No need. this is a simple property insurance. Simple math. It is just risk assessment.
i don't use the service but ask
@Rob Hamilton It’s somewhat false peace of mind though. Have a neighbor who is battling insurance company over burst pipe and flooded basement and who knows if they’ll pay out.
Well yes, it needs to be good insurance that actually pays when shit happens. Shitty insurance will also exist, but hopefully we will have 1 or 2 good players.
There’s certainly more of a marketplace after today
How did we get from "Bitcoin is money you cant fuck with" to "I need insurance"
A monthly insurance fee is the solution to bitcoin providing physical security so the government can't put you in a cell away from your family as they ask for your keys?
😬
On-ramp for sure offers it for individuals
simply how can the insurance company verify your claim of loss?
from the company/server side it's an auditable regular insurance model
That’s called iBIt dude.
We serve individuals and companies, if you want to learn more hit me up at AnchorWatch.com or Rob at AnchorWatch.com
We are working on this at AnchorWatch if you want to learn more.
View quoted note →Not against the government, but against wrench attacks, hackers and other terrible humans.
This is why people use exchanges: insurance.
Right, but I just want the policy, not the exchange.
Lost my btc in a coldcard accident.
What is needed is a bitcoin insurance policy that pays claims in bitcoin.
yes, just paperwork. No software, no bullshit 3-part signing, no sending BTC to a company...
Yeah, but they would want to have a 1oo2 key to a multisig, other wise they wouldn't know if you just spent it and claimed theft.
A better model would be a bank holding part of a multisig in a safe deposit box. No way for them to know what's in there to rehypothicate. But it stops wrench attacks and would have inheretence planning.
I have a hard time imagining any legitimate company will to take on the risk. The price volitility alone would make that a horrible business model. Then there is the fraud that would come with it. The cost of this insurance, should it exist one day, would almost definitely come with a much higher price tag than that as well.
Well, it went from permissionless, fuck the state money to hodl and regulate me harder daddy , so why the f not 😂
Who is talking about regulation? Insurance is not regulation. It's just protection against other humans inevitably fucking with you.
Price is per policy holder. A good holder puts systems in place that can let them lower the cost. Others pay the full cost. This is just risk analysis... And now that we have data on how much Bitcoin is being stolen over 16 years, the risk is known and can start assembling a good business model.
I never said you were talking about it. Nor implied it. But dont act like many havent been begging for it over the years. All the simps that want institutional adoption, which guarantees regs, are who I was referring to. And they got it. No need to get defensive.
Nah, it's just the policy. Just paperwork. No bullshit software or custodial transfers.
I wish we lived in a world that didn't need insurance to feel safe 😕
Well, insurance companies are have a history of fuckery. No matter the industry. I just dont think its a good idea or see it working. Have you never dealt with a health insurance provider? Cancer is more pleasant
I was born in Brazil, so feeling safe wasn't my life options.
A person could give their keys to someone with extremely tight opsec, and have the coins 'stolen'. Then make a claim. Its guaranteed to happen. And then premiums start rising. Same or similar types of fraud happen with all forms insurance.
Plus KYC
Thats insurance fraud. And insurance companies are EXPERTs in figuring that out.
No kidding. That's my point and people get away with it all the time. They dont catch everyone.
Yeah, on small stuff sure... Its easier to pay than to fight. But anything over 50K gets into a different level of scrutiny. Its all in the business model anyway.
Zero insurers will be interested the moment that they learn that user understanding of technical concepts including cryptography play a major role in these coins' safety.
Banks steal all kinds of things from deposit boxes. Anyone keeping bitcoin keys in one Is a fool.
Sometimes, I'm glad I'm broke and actually considered legally retarded with my 8th grade education...
Still dont mean a person will get caught. And they can just do many small ones. You're acting like this shit never happens. People get away with literal murder all the time. Data breaches happen all the time, with noone getting caught. And over 50k? People with that much are a very small minority as far as btc is concerned. If it can work then so be it. I just dont see it.
And even when people get caught, still causes a rise in premiums. All those investigations take up resources. And the more fraud, the more resources.
The fee on several bitcoin ETF's is less than that.
The insurers establish conditions of insurance and that nearly fully mitigate the actual risk. You could almost ask yourself (or Rob) what an insurer would require, then do that, then you likely wouldn’t even need it any longer.
You can buy insurance for Bitcoin today from Lloyds of London. Lloyds will insure anything. Lloyds have insured some crazy shit over the past few centuries.
However, they don't insure peasants. Billionaires though, they can insure their Bitcoin and their superyacht on the same policy.
i won't take commission unless you force me to
If you figure out the recipe, send me a copy 😊
This got brought up about the insurance over breakfast this morning. I think I said something like, a lot of people are gonna want reassurance to stay in the game... and could this be some kind of incidence to get people to dox themselves and their stash to big money businesses in order to feel more secure? I just hope that as the dust settles, these stolen coins are able to find their way back home. Too much pain today 💔
Insurance….what a ponzi if there ever was one :)
Onramp Multi Institution Custody, even their free accounts have insurance from Bitgo, created just for this reason
I think actually this is the must sensible thing I have heard
Keep in mind that insurers will dictate your setup to a degree. They won't just insure any scheme you figure out for yourself, or receive much worse terms.
Still could be worth it but it's a serious tradeoff, along with privacy implications.
I don't think this is achievable. How would you even arbitrate this?
I would like this too but what does stolen even mean when all you can see are valid transactions? How would you verify "stolen" vs "boating accident"?
My grandad always said "you can buy insurance for anything". Vitor has a great point.
Did you lose anything up until now?
Why would it?
And higher insurance rates for wallets that aren't open-source!
And where would the insurance company get the btc to pay out victims of theft?
Blackrock would have to start giving out loans to the insurance companies so they can pay people out.
Your premiums would be insane, they can't just print more btc from nothing like they can with dollars
Not really, good insurances have this dial up incredibly well. I used to work with a lot of them.
