Replies (117)
Oh boy that's quite a list 😯
what is ur definition of BUST?
domain gone?
ip unreachable
lot of dead weight. if you aren't running your own relay, you're just a guest. purge the lists or expect high latency and failed broadcasts. sovereign infra or bust.
fewer than i thought 😆
also, how do you know this..?
Nostr UX remains undefeated. We are so early!
Oh dear. That is a lot. My afternoon (culling my list) is gonna be lit.
View quoted note →Need to dedupe ser
Why you hating on relays that work
Audio version available if the thread wants it — 500 sats from one or many, and everyone gets to listen.
Great... Now we just need an annoying dm bot if one of these is found in your list.
These presumably don't work.
Cuz they aren’t outboxed
Hey man, I had 6/6 relays that worked. Then there was an update and I have 6/504 relays that work now. I didn't want those extra relays that are broken, I didn't put them there, don't expect me to clean it up.
Hé hé Bhen ouais.
Damn I remember a lot of those! Neat :)
The extra ones is not yours. They are your follows. Amethyst will connect to all relays your follows are posting to download the info you want to see in your feed.
Encore des excuses afin de ne pas vous y mettre. Nous prévoyons aussi de nouveaux relais mais nous nous tattoos encore concernant les NIPS à devoir utiliser ou non.
View quoted note →Thank the "outbox Model"...
Best model ever. On everything else people don't even noticed when they miss posts.
Likely spaces added to the url in their lists.. :(
Yea and some are flat out wrong… “damus.com” lol
Relay attrition is inevitable in a decentralized ecosystem—just like early internet nodes. Those dead relays highlight the need for better discovery & maintenance tools. Reminds me of an article on how SpaceX's Starship could reshape satellite deployment, making space infrastructure more resilient too.
The Board
Analyzing the SpaceX Starship Commercial Economy
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how are they posting to dead relays?
Just try relays and then session-park any that don't respond. 🤷🏻♀️
Great. Then let's just add all relays to all lists...
Need a tool to check the list for us.
Need a tool to find lists of relays too, but that's a different problem.
No point using the ones we know are broken. Are you pulling the relay monitoring events our servers are publishing?
I did notice other clients missed what amethyst did not miss. It's sporadically but it happens.
I do. Well, I pull a random selection from the full list of active relays and include them.
Nostr.mom seems to work. As
@captjack 🏴☠️✨💜 said, not sure what you mean by "bust"
Your client should just automatically do this. 🤷♀
You might have missed the report
@elsat made about relay monitoring and stuff. It was pretty good. I completely gutted and redid the relay connections, based upon his findings.
I don't do the 800 relay connections thing, tho, so I can be more analytical and efficient about the selection.
Yikes, is there an automatic cleanup once can apply to bust relays? Perhaps if uninstalled and reinstalled, or such?
I don't think it does... And yes it should... Vitor, am I missing something?
How will we know when these relays are damaged? It's hard to know that for a nostr clients.
i wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that strfry doesn't give relay operators any tools to not be drowned in spam?
I think there are repeats on there.
I don't really understand how to know if a relay is working or not so I just add a bunch of them. According to you I'm not allowed to use your relay because your relay is your personal relay but amethyst allows me to add it so I added it and haven't removed it since you told me.
I think relays should be smarter like when you add it on amethyst, it should connect and tell me if I'm allowed to add it or not, If I'm not then It shouldnt even be able to keep it added
Didnt know this, glad at least one dev found a real world application 🤝
As for clients that have set up hundreds of connections, this approach is less geared towards connection efficiency and the outbox benchmark findings.
We should have relay blacklists
Browser apps are more limited, so I use all of the data to regularly poll, cache updates, and adjust. It's full outbox, but I don't keep all of the connections constantly open.
Yeah, u have tried all types of relay selections. They all suck. People keep missing things. Worst is that majority of relays go offline / get too busy to reply for a few minutes/hours almost every day. So the fact that the app couldn't connect for hours doesn't mean much. The relay might still comeback at any time.
Also, 95% of our relay connections go through Tor by default. So if Tor is slow or if the monitor doesn't check the connection ability in the same conditions of the phone (which change from mobile data to wifi), that is also a problem.
But in the end, if the user is still using relays that don't exist anymore, it is likely that they will miss things. They will see less and less data over time. This is regardless of well apps connect to them.
I’d imagine asking 300 relays instead of 30 for the same info is easier on relays in aggregate.
There is an argument to be made for longtail relays, and randomness as we saw in the outbox benchmark reports.
We tried in the past, but most relays go offline for hours and we can't suggest to remove those relays every time it happens. We need better solutions for sure.
Maybe an uptime graph for each?
We do display an uptime check per relay in the list, but sometimes it is just Tor not being ready.. I need to improve that metric.
StrFry is only 30% of the relays... It's affecting everyone.
🤔 if nostr relays are running over Tor, and Tor Aldo has relays, maybe they could merge into one relay
Holy shit! That’s a lot!
wss://nostrbtc.com is here to stay forever! And yes even if I die it’s going to be automated by the agents 🫡
View quoted note →We also have the default relays, that we include and fallback to. And we only session-block, so all they have to do is hard-refresh, to retry blocked relays.
But we don't have the Tor issue, that's true.
Blocked relays list kind 10006
I also do a lot of background-updating/polling and caching. I don't know if you do that. Then stuff that was missing, if a relay is offline, get pulled and added later. And I merge in the results from the trending relay from nostr archives.
I'm chronically on-Nostr, and constantly switch machines and networks, so I have a gazillion tricks to not miss anything. 😂
good point, vitor should turn this into a relay block list kind event and nostr.doctor can copy it for us..
not even true, it has a plugin system. skill issue.
Victor, espaço para nós realmente não é um problema, mas seria interessante um app de sincronização de relays para administradores de relays, onde podemos sincronizar diversos servidores.
Estou trabalhando em algo neste sentido.
Nossa ideia é ter servidores no mundo todo, caixas pequenas, pouco uso de energia, mas entregando em baixa latencia. Todos sincronizando com nossa central no Brasil e nos USA.
Creio que manter a infra custa dinheiro demais e muitos desanimam, pois não há rentabilidade, apenas custos.
Já pelo lado do App cliente, ferramentas para posicionar qual relay é principal e onde vc quer que seja sincronizado seus dados pela ferramenta ja existente seria um avanço.
Queremos infra comunicativa até em paises totalitários como China e coreia do norte. Essa é nossa ambição final.
Acredito na sugestão de 7 dias, se o app cliente ver que um relay está off por 7 dias consecutivos ele envia a notificação.
Caso o relay reapareça no futuro, ele pode sigerir, pode guardar em cache, por sei lá, 3 meses?
um arquivo de poucos kbs, csv, na cache ja seria legal.
I actually use the full relay lists (inboxes/outboxes from the user and their follows, favorites, local cache relays, blocked relays, relay hints, referenced relays, seen-on relays, http relays, default relays, etc.), in addition to adding 5 random relays for each publish. I do it all. There's no way to do "more outbox", it's just that I sometimes close connections. I don't keep all 300 or 500 or whatever open, constantly. It depends upon the context.
I designed my own relay around f7z. I thought the concept of short notes was so cool. Sad to see it go bust.
Yep, the code now is all reactive. If I get any new relay list from the user or any follow, it automatically switches to the new relays. But it also keeps listening at all times. So if you are looking at a reply of a thread, we are connected to the inbox relays of all visible authors to download any like, reply to each of their posts. At the same time, we are connected to all relays in the outbox of all the users follows to pick up any new report from a follow about these replies (or reply likes. Etc).
There is a block relay list on amethyst
Tbh, writing your relay block list gets quite difficult when your typing is interrupted a growing list of auth requests fron relays through amber.
The option around that seems to auto auth from any relay that requests, but that feels very anti-pattern.
Yeah, I don't have a good way out of it yet. I started authing with random keys (so that relays actually send something), but it also goes against what the relay protocol wants us to do ..
me: still happy with the 5 fast public relays that have always worked well for me 💅
why is the damus relay on here?
ohh.. Maybe I just copy pasted wrong :(
Damus has been in and out for weeks now with us. Some days it works great, others it doesn't even connect for hours.
But in this list is damus.com, which is the wrong address. Looks like there was a relay there last year that we were connecting to, but it's not active anymore.
oh right
I thought the same, didn’t notice the .com 🤣
the guy who owns that domain tried to sell me it for like $60,000. fuck that
1) what
Thing is, once a brand is established, it really doesn’t matter the tld.
Also, please update to 1.1.0 when you can. Damus has addressable events that were not deleted by `a` tags from deletion events.
Ah maybe that's why I've been having issues with #amethyst lately.
Would it be possible to implement a button that fixes this? If not, is there a service that will clean it up? Ain't no way I'm reading all that.
What about a
@Plebs vs. Zombies but for dead relays?
@The Daniel 🖖 👀
i suspect i don't have to name the one that is dominating then do i. open claw and all. some orange snippers in the equation perhaps?
Zombie relays…could be an interesting community feature. Why don’t you talk to the computer and publish a rough spec for it here and we’ll put it in the ol’ wood chipper?
GitHub
Issues · dmnyc/plebs-vs-zombies
Kill the zombies taking over your Nostr follow list! They're dead, but refuse to die. 🔪🧟♂️🧟♀️ - Issues · dmnyc/plebs-vs-zom...
Yeah, that's more instantaneous. We also see almost everything, immediately, but that's due to the many aggregators and search relays. From the full relay list is only periodic or contextual.
this is quite the graveyard
big fat +1
That's a good idea for privacy. Only use real keys for auth when it's in your configured relay list
well, thats why my auth relays send an auth challenge upon connect. but clients rudely ignore that and insist on being the first to send a message (like an event or req). so, i suppose, clients are what also created this pattern so that now you feel like you have to auth with random key "just to get a response"? 🤔
still, fine by me to use rando keys, even better would be a rando session key for longer minutes or something.. but either way.
Clients shouldn't wait for auth. Most relays only send auth after we hit something that uses auth-exclusive content.
But yes, most authed relays don't do anything without auth, so we auth with whatever and then they reply.. cat and mouse game.
Is there more relays than users?
I have ditto and it works intermittently. Not bust enough for me to remove it. It is odd though that with the relay sync it accepts hundreds of new events every time. I know its filtered so maybe its accepted and then quickly dropped.
Ditto's relay has been offline a lot lately... That could be it too.
Is it? I'm not seeing any downtime on relay.ditto.pub recently
The list rendered as an images in my feed so I can scroll its too long
I did just see it was ditto.pub/relay on his list. I didn't realize that at first but maybe someone just has it wrong.
Looks like that is me also and it does work. Do I need to change it to relay.ditto.pub ?
Remove ditto.pub/relay and switch to relay.ditto.pub
Done. I take that I had the less stable version?
How do you test it? We connect from the push notification server and ask for a limit:1 filter. If the server doesn't not reply with anything in 30s we consider it offline/too busy..
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These relays seem to function right now, but I don't know how often they are offline.
```
wss://carlos-cdb.top
wss://ditto.pub/relay
wss://jingle.carlos-cdb.top
wss://nerostr.xmr.rocks
wss://nostr.0xtr.dev
wss://nostr.sudocarlos.com
wss://nostr.xmr.rocks
wss://relay.gasteazi.net
wss://relay.highlighter.com
wss://xmr.ithurtswhenip.ee
wss://xmr.usenostr.org
```
We need a bot that writes users who have bad relay lists.
Like PFPigs but for relays.
Excuse me for being a total noob, but how does one interact with relays? Where can I add them? How many should I have? Where can I learn more? 😬
#asknostr
That was the original idea of the nostr doctor actually!
Solid gold in here 🪙
It could be that they were just offline for a few hours... Our push notification system is the one checking, reporting and deleting all relays that can't sustain their statuses online.
What client are you using?
Sadly yes
wss://ditto.pub/relay is replaced with wss://relay.ditto.pub
wss://ditto.pub/relay is replaced with wss://relay.ditto.pub
Primal
Jumble is the best client for exploring relays
Relay attrition is a persistent challenge—users need better tools to prune dead endpoints automatically. Reminds me of how SpaceX’s Starship is pushing reliability in another high-stakes domain: their commercial model hinges on uptime. [Article gets into the economics.]
The Board
Analyzing the SpaceX Starship Commercial Economy
Explore the emerging SpaceX Starship commercial space economy. Analyzing its potential impact on businesses, investments, and space technologies.
In Settings - Network you can see which you are using and add/remove relays
Thank you so much 🙏🏻 How many are adviced to add?
2-3 is fine
If this the case then I'm wot'd into oblivion
I've been clinging to yours like Jack in titanic
