Thread

we going to do numbers instead of ⭕ like in Coracle? Kinda gets confusing with the Zap amount (as shown here), doesn't it?

Is this on your Amethyst app Vitor

I got 99 problems but my WoT ain't 1.

On development, yes

As much as I like to support WoT This is starting to feel like a social credit score and that doesn't feel good.

Loading it on the fly is the first step. It's a smaller challange to then change the UI. I'd also want something else there. Depending on whether I agree with the trust score at all, I could imagine the avatars to be scaled down for low trust, with a slim green circle for direct follows and a phat red circle for zero trust.

You can choose the provider you want or run your own service to score everybody based on any parameters you want. It's not a single number for everyone.

Well, I want it to be client side only. For a start, I want to see immediately when some BITKARROT that I don't follow shows up in a reply to the one I'm following. It's trivial to impersonate people and my follows and their follows should be my first line of defense.

how does WoT work?

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzq3svyhng9ld8sv44950j957j9vchdktj7cxumsep9mvvjthc2pjuqythwumn8ghj7anfw3hhytnwdaehgu339e3k7mf0qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcqyrzteqxu52na277zj4e9r0q8eu40f2h4pqcaf5f7qrgtlf28jmu7zjd2msw

WoT is an equation you run to give a score between 0 to 100 to anyone else on Nostr based on your follow lists and interactions. The scores are different for every logged-in account. To me, you are a 94, for instance. Even though I don't follow you, many of my followers do and that increases the number. Currently, we are using NIP-85, which allows users to pick a score provider and that will be shown on Amethyst. I am using https://straycat.brainstorm.social for instance.

Is this released yet?

Not yet

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thank you for the explanation!

Cute

Ah okay, that makes more sense then, not china style social credit

Yep, you have full control

Noice

I might need a bigger phone to see those numbers

I'm looking forward to this 🫡

I am still confused about how a WOT score is arrived at and what the significance of a WOT score is.

imagine a diagram of you and your follows all lines going out to the follows. repeat this for each follow for their follows trace the paths between them to discover the distance between you and some other user, count the numbers, and then apply some formula to reduce the weight with distance that's the basics. you can add mutes and reports to color that graph more, and much more intensive, you can track and count interactions like zaps, reacts and replies. the best ways to do it are not yet known, everyone is experimenting with the factors and functions to come to a score for relations between users indicated by their activity and follow lists.

Thank you for your explanation. What about the significance or reason for a WOT? I thought we were NOT supposed to be trusting anyone but verifying everything?

people are too complex to verify precisely. web of trust is about seeing past the self-promotion to what people actually perceive. the most important info in nostr data is not the follow lists, though it's got some value. interaction metrics *prove* trust but you then have the problem of characterising it, engagement is the raw signal, the words contain the sentiment.

also, the purpose of it is to reduce the influence of malicious actors in a social graph. and various attempts to produce strongly indicative metrics often have various games you can play to pump your numbers, like sock puppets. sock puppets, for example, could be reduced by creating a scheme for requiring users to mine vanity keys with a minimum readable length in them. this would be in the range of 8+ characters. the darkweb many sites do this with their Tor hidden service address (it's a pubkey). because they take weeks to generate long ones. a user with a very long vanity word in the pubkey bech32 encoding would be very difficult to impersonate. there is schemes like this also with other systems. DNS uses monetary costs and a distributed replication system to stop people poisoning the map of name->address but it is a very high trust protocol, this is partly also why Russia has implemented its own name service system in case someone does break the IANA BIND9 database.

When you wrote malicious actors do you mean profile impersonators?

every type of malicious behavior. gaming the WoT is a red flag. trolling and spamming are red flags. brigading is red flags. infiltrating social graphs and sowing discord is red flags.

the core dev fan trolling was malicious behaviour. jb55 was in on that, for example.

So like "reply guy"?

I am not familiar with that incident.

yep, that's malicious behaviour. hard to trace back to the scumbag doing it tho

let's just say that some people showed their true colors. people with high visibility thanks to the collaboration of such as the primal team. it's not for nothing there is a segment of the nostr population really tired of the obvious social manipulation going on.

A metric based on how much mutual bi-directional interaction, frequency and last interaction could potentially be useful. Then you know its an actual relationship not just a 'reply-guy'

i'm building this now. it is going to be lightning fast, and use an allowed exception in NIP-01 that specifies underscore prefixed fields are to be ignored. it will let you grab even the list of metadata events, all sorted and grouped, either by depth of distance the users first appear from a "seed" npub, or multiple criteria like reactions/reposts, reports and mutes, and it will allow you to also do queries that fetch whole threads using index free adjacency with vertex graphs. it's all very clear in my mind, clear enough that i am confident i will have a working version within a few hours. i'm also adding a standard nip-01 based graph traversal for 3 degree follow graphs to the benchmark, as a baseline to compare both the optimization of relays to doing this kind of query under the existing scheme, and later i will make it add, for comparison, if the relay supports the new _graph field in REQ, to show how much faster again that 3 degree pubkey list can be produced using graph vertexes. i'm pretty sure it's gonna be at least one if not two extra decimal places in the ratio to nip-01

Reply guy was not very popular back in the day.