Those bitcoin "VCs", including Core Devs are just scammers.

Satoshi Nakamoto: "Bitcoin users might [need to] get increasingly tyrannical about limiting the size of the chain so it's easy for lots of users and small devices." he knew.

But current devs know better, right?

The used (aka cheapo) laptop with 2 tb ssd is the way to go these days. That is more than enough to run core/knots, c lightning / lnd, and the OS.

Huh? Current devs are trying to limit the damage by getting spam to move away from UTXO bloating methods.

bingo

No they are not, they are trying to anticipate future usecases and behaviour from bad actors, which essentially boils down to negotiation with spammers (terrorists).

Are you pricing your 2035 node in BTC or USD? Pretty sure it'll be cheaper with the former.

I just bougth 16T disk for my favourite tv shows and movies. $450

In 10 years you’ll have: - cheaper and faster drives - cheaper and faster ram - cheaper and faster CPUs - cheaper and faster internet We could advocate to a smaller Bitcoin history, but, honestly? That’s irrelevant. Unless we are talking about 1Tb data every 6 months. To run your own node can be costly today, but comparing just 5 years ago, the price has decreased and the technology increased. Especially if you price things in Bitcoin. That’s my 2 cents. I own several bitcoin core, and lightning nodes. Each has around 4Tb of SSD I acquired a couple of years ago. The price dropped almost 40% from the original price I paid. In bitcoin terms it became almost free.

Could IBD be torrented? In theory shouldn't all of our nodes have the same blocks

Would you trust a blockchain that wasn’t verified yourself? How could you determine if the chain you download over torrent hasn’t been altered? Fast Sync is available, but it’s always a good idea to verify it yourself, as the saying goes, “don’t trust, verify.”

If you're right and filters are the only thing keeping Bitcoin from being destroyed by spammers then we are fucked anyway. As distasteful as spam is, the smooth functioning of the network and keeping the cost of running a node down is a higher priority imo. The fee market will determine what the best use of blockspace is.

Bad link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/177055938335

👀

10 years down the road from now.. your node needs to accommodate up to about 200GB of growth since segwit, so you will need 2TB more than now if you don't plan to upgrade any in those 10 years. It's rare to run systems that long without an upgrade, but it sure is nice to know you can do it on a 4TB drive. So your total node price is gonna be in the ballpark of $500 in today's prices. I upgraded last year from a rpi 4 8gb to a refurbished Dell optiplex and only put 2tb in it, knowing I'd upgrade to 4tb or 8tb in a few more years when prices come down more.

Literally shopping an Optiplex 7050 mini now. This whole experiment is what led me to truly thinking about the network adoption.

Raspberry Pis are ewaste. I have been saying this for years. Also, you don't have to run a full node, a pruned node is fine for 99.9% of people.

ewaste from corps is dirt cheap and about to see an even bigger influx from windows 10 support dropping. 2tb NVMe with x86 in a used device will chain sync in well under a week for under $300 today.

I used a mini pc. Added a 2tb ssd and 2 bitaxe gammas. It was just under $1000 I paid for it with bitcoin that I’ve earned on Coinbase doing all of their shitcoin slide shows and converting the rewards to bitcoin. Thank you Coinbase and shitcoiners for paying for my self sovereign bitcoin node and solo miners!

I have a pi 5 running on a 1TB with umbrel i have difficulties upgrading, so i decided to spin up a start9 VM on my Proxmox. Thing is syncing for nearly two weeks already.

Yeah I was considering a Pi 5 but figured why do this again in 2 years. 2 years about my Pi 4 was completely fine.

*2 years ago*

I built mine with a refurb dell micro I got for like $80 and added a new SSD. WAY more powerful than most a pi

Literally been shopping the dell opti 7050 micro.

Synced in about 26-28hrs (like a year ago)

This is the way

I recently had to upgrade from Pi4 to mini-PC myself. Furthermore, I thought 1TB could last few more years, but nada. nevent1qqsfsx5zcl0jfjw5jq8466h0cuzsgxjkkjddlkr2pwln6wahe626ndgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgl8k2kd

just spun up a freshy on a 7070 i7 micro. been really nice so far.

What OS you using?

Start9

This is the way.

I settled on this from Amazon a year and a half ago for $113 (now $104). Added a 2TB drive. The power stability alone was worth it vs raspberry pi node. Then follow the Minibolt guide if you want some sovereignty. Dell OptiPlex 5050 SFF PC Desktop Computer, 3.4GHz Intel i5-7500, 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD, Windows 10 Pro 64bit(Renewed)

You added an internal drive or usb?

I replaced the 256gb drive with a 2tb nvme

debian for me

Best point. I upgraded secondary ssd in my pc some years ago. Used the spare one for my node. 2years later got a biger one for half in $, 1/4 in ₿

My Pi crashed this past weekend when the cpu spiked past 105%. Running LND, CLN, mempool, knots, electrum, and a few other apps. I now have any app I’m not using stopped, unless directly related to node running. It’s too bad really, but I may have to retire mine sooner than later as well. Will keep an eye out for sales on Start 9

Just run knots! 😂 "LOOK MOM, I'M FILTOOOOOOOOOOOORING! If that doesn't stop the spammers imma SHUT DOWN MY NODE!" View quoted note →

I don't trust anything I can't verify. That is faith territory

Have you ever heard about @npub1jzg9...w9wm CmRat? $30 Carrier Board that supports Raspberry Compute Modules, Radxa etc. Upgradable, Open, NVME on board, PoE, Economical. I use that with a Radxa CM3 to run knots and it’s very fast.

Yes, exactly.

fucking love this discussion 100x more important than 'naming units 'discussion View quoted note →

Which Pi you running

Is that a kind of Mini PC? What else do you need? Don’t have a node yet but think of installing one. Do you need a separate PC or Notebook to Setup the whole thing?

From what I understand it's the opposite

Planning on setting up a node, waiting on the pi in the mail, internet is the biggest hurdle here. It's going to be expensive to run.

There are a lot of baseless accusations being thrown around.

This. Get one of those phased out thin clients from your local mega corp or ebay. Small, quiet, powerful enough to hold for a while.

The only thing that keeps Bitcoin from being destroyed are node runers, and filters are just part of the toolkit.

Are you going to sell all your Bitcoin if the change gets merged?

No, but I get the feeling a lot more people will run to Knots than right now. If Core continues to fuck around, they will find out.

Buy a (refurbished) mini pc, wipe it, throw Linux on it and you're good to go. Cheaper than a Raspberry PI even. And then... Let's fix the filters 🔥

Pi4 8 gb with a 2tb storage

You can run a Start9 on a cheap mini-pc. It’s not expensive at all.

spam exists because they intentionally didnt update the filters 2 years ago. they created to problem themselves.

Just in case anyone thinks op_return affects this...

meanwhile I will keep running a node on my rpi4 with 4GB of ram, will get a new hardware only when it dies.

2 years ago after taproot

I bought a cheap mini PC and plugged in an external drive that I had and it works pretty well

That's just one type of spam, it's always been possible to record data in different ways and some of those are more damaging to the network than others. Yes the p2tr method blew up and drove fees higher for awhile, but the hype has died because it holds very little value. Removing op_return filters might cause another surge, but it will die too because storing jpegs on the Blockchain is a stupid use case. It's still consensus valid though, and I want my node to be aligned with consensus even if I find how other people use it distasteful. That's just the nature of a permissionless network, people will use it in ways you don't like. Now if anyone wants to talk about changing consensus to prevent these uses, then I would be willing to listen and even fight for it, but no one seems to want to do that right now. This is the consensus we are stuck with for better or worse. People wil find ways to achieve their goals of data storage no matter what the nodes try to filter, so we might as well channel it into the least damaging method. There may even be some data storage use cases that enhance scaling and increase the value of the monetary use case of Bitcoin, but even if not the monetary use case of Bitcoin is by far the most valuable and will outcompete spam in the long run. I just don't think there's anything to be afraid of from the spammers. Let the fee markets decide what is the best use of blockspace. Trying to get nodes to collectively control the blockchain is some statist-type regulatory bullshit that gets in the way of the free market.

im against changing consensus, thats politician solution. "just add another law". thats top down decision making. you dont wanna become a consensus change addict. bitcoin has to be as unchanging as possible. like gravity, yes gravity suck sometimes but its a constant and we can build on top of that. spam issue is a community level issue, and should be decided by the free market of node runners. just like i can decide what i can share with people in a free world, i can also decide what to share with other bitcoin nodes. we dont need to change the constitution of bitcoin (consensus). maybe today 42 byte is decided to be fine, maybe tomorrow it will be 32 or 64. these are community level decisions. maybe one dont wanna relay tokens, maybe one does. you have to find someone who does. you cant keep touching the consensus, it doesnt end well. whole point of bitcoin is stopping top down changes done by entities to "fix the economy". so no we shouldnt touch consensus. im fully against it. this should be solved in the community level. filters has been part of bitcoin from the early days. and spam was a real concern from the early days as well. everything from the legacy 1MB block size to block per 10 min decision made while also keeping spam in mind, and keep the blockchain easy to download by small devices. and L2+ solutions should be as light as possible on chain as well. we dont want one L2+ solution to rule them all and take a huge block space. we want multiple different small L2+ solutions focusing different aspects. no swish army knife EVM. limitations on bitcoin makes things built on it smart. no lazy slap EVM everywhere. if a L2 solution requires less decentralized bitcoin for sake of L2 security, it shouldnt exist. core of the issue is the core. bitcoin/bitcoin should have been archived a long time ago. many people at core, not because they wanna write a node software for users of bitcoin, no. they want to be a bitcoin dev. thats a problem, it effects their perspective and the way they see things.. a parliament voting and deciding what should happen to bitcoin by saying "ACK" or "NACK", is not decentralization, or free market of alternatives. its top down management by a collective. something happens or doesnt happen. there is no other experiments happening in parallel in the free market of node software. We Should Archive Core. then we can have many new different node implementations and forks trying to take its place. you have to change your thinking a bit. bitcoin doesnt run on aether, and it shouldnt be managed by one collective/parliament. bitcoin IS the people who use it and run a node. so primary goal of a node software market should be serving to these users, not trying to "shape bitcoin". maybe a node app has support for mempool management plugins, so you dont have to wait for an update for better filters, you can have a whole free market of filters on a plugin store, or filter packs. maybe one has better UI and UX. maybe other one has better compression. maybe other one is experimenting on a protocol making nodes send bulk data to each other with gzip to save bandwidth. maybe one has built-in tor support, so you dont have to separately set it up. maybe one has built-in support for electrum endpoints and indexing while pruning. maybe other one has plugin support for indexing. maybe one has a more mobile oriented app. all different things being experimented on in parallel by multiple people. some are solo, some are 2 friends, some are an organization. no parliament saying "ACK" or "NACK", just everything tested in parallel in the market. free market of node implementations. all selected by the market. total protocol ossification. is core humble enough to archive the repo? or just like the control?

Love this take 🫡