Replies (73)
So how do we make it a bigger deal?
You put it into perspective correctly, best take I've read so far on the issue. It's not just lightning, even on-chain is prohibited, Bitcoin as a whole is locked out of this economy model. The economy model itself is crippled.
Hey, I only offer diagnosis not solutions 😂 😂
I disagree saying “fuck apple” means fuck those 1.5b people.
Perhaps the path to change for apple lies in competing however?
Perhaps saying fuck apple in the short term is the best way to incentivize apple from embracing the change and stop restricting and fucking their users ?
Ya I mean, the best thing to do is to use "all the people that reached out (to will)", all those big deal people and people inside apple etc. To get some kind of meeting with Tim Cook and convince him to accept zap splits. Anything less than this, is just a decades long slog against the grain of iOS, which as we all know, is entrenched as fuck.
Complaining on twitter, acting like you can do anything in the app store, and making news headlines for a day is gonna go absolutely nowhere.
The only other thing that could save it is I think the EU made a fuss and caused apple to have to allow side loading, but I haven't seen much progress and I'm guessing apple will somehow make this stall for decades as well.
They didn't lock Bitcoin out of the economy, they locked themselves out of the Bitcoin economy. Classic Apple blunder like that time they fired Steve Jobs.
I don’t need an Apple app to receive pay payments on any other crypto blockchain, Neither does Nostr or Damus… #nostr #damus #[4]
I agree with your take and call to action...entirely. This is a big fucking deal and we should all be aware how big of a blow that Apple's stance on Damus is to not only the app many of us love but freedom tech in general.
With that said, I believe the most effective noise we can create is choosing options not within apple's tech stack and making them rethink their decision. I don't see an effective alternative. What would be an effective example of noise we can create that is not impacting Apple where they care...their wallet ?
That is a great motivational speech ✌️but realistically Apple has set an example and is on a trajectory to disable 19% of the people to interact with Bitcoin in a MEANINGFUL way. Mobile cRyPtO wallets are irrelevant to the adoption of Bitcoin, it's zaps that finally threaten the Status Quo of the Cantillon class. They've understood what we do here, Nostr is super tiny but it works. Apple can change the rules and move the goal post as they wish and it won't stop with unzappable notes.
We cut out the middleman and the middleman fights back. Mild shock.
True... True
#applesauce
We are too few for them to care. But the upside of reacher much wider audience is too great of a loss at this point.
When that percentage of the population cares about their economic freedom, they will change it. Nothing stopping them.
You are right but we haven’t found a better solution.
To build alternatives to a financial system which directs the governments and militaries of the world, you will not get the help of mega corporations who are part of the system you are subverting.
So this line of thinking implies that bitcoin is bad for business? Why wouldn’t Apple want in on it?
No processing fees. Seamless payments unlocking all of the unbanked populations. My guess is the value exchange on such a network at a global scale would result in more payments for Apple.
Look wider.
you don’t understand the ground you are walking on.
bitcoin is a threat to the empire whose currency is the prime reserve currency. and it is used to control entire continents.
entire nations have been destroyed for threatening to do what bitcoin does by its inherent function.
Apple would have to defy Wall St and the Pentagon to do what you want. They won’t do it. Ever.
Everyone seems surprised and crying about this but didnt you expect? It was inevitable. I'm actually surprised it took this long.
😅
Can’t we just place the zaps ⚡️ option within the profiles? Or as a “tip” option? Or argue there’s no market on Damus so nothing is being sold whatsoever?
We can but it’s barely used within the profile.
Will is right when he said something along the lines of nothing being sold. There is no expectation of payment so Apple’s own guidelines should not apply in this case.
Of course at the end of the day they can do as they please but it would be dumb to not raise awareness of these issues as they have some profound long term implications (barriers) to the bitcoin economy.
I guess per their guidelines we’d never have a zap marketplace in the first place but it was fun zapping notes without expecting anything in return.
There’s gotta be a clever way to execute this. 🧐 How is Twetch getting by this? I know they’re in test flight but still..y’all would virtually be identical.
Sounds way too conspiratorial for me. I’m a practical guy and think companies do things they do for practical reasons - profit.
If apple never adopts bitcoin or lightning, it’s not because of some deal with wall st or some govt, but because it’s not profitable to do so.
Wall st would rejoice if bitcoin / zaps unlocked more profitability. Or do you mean to tell me wall st cares more about control over the populace than it does about profits?
Follow the money is a saying for a reason.
Android is like 70% of the entire smartphone market.
iPhone users are the minority.
So yes, fuck Apple.
And if you care about digital sovereignty you shouldn't give them a single penny or a single sat.
View quoted note →I understand. There is great appeal in the comfort of ignorance. Without it, you have to start asking yourself questions like, “ why HAS my country attempted coups in 74 countries since 1947?” Or “why has every war we’ve fought since Vietnam been for the preservation of the petro-dollar?” The blue pill is a legitimate choice for some.
Fortunately the BRICS financial alliance and growing Bitcoin economies of Central and South America will provide the frameworks we will need to build liberty.
Carry on. And Good luck with Apple! 🍎 😁
You could be rude and call me ignorant, as you are being now. Or, you could consider that I’ve considered your point of view and assigned lower probability of that being true.
Oh don’t be offended little buddy 😀 Wisdom is proved of all her children. Carry on with what you know, and be hopeful. Understanding comes with time.
What is PWA?
It is ok Apple has his own store with his rules and applies pay cuts, just don't force it as the only entry point because this is not acceptable at all in the contemporary view of an OS used by hundread of milions users.
Ask them to enable sideloading, that's all.
Sorry U.S. iPhone users, sideloading in iOS 17 will likely be limited to Europe | Macworld
Whats the side loading process like? Because if it’s in any way more than super easy, it may as well not be there imo. People who absolutely need it would use it but the bulk of users may not bother depending on the UX hurdles involved.
Progressive Web App
What we should do then? Complaining or begging won't help in this case. They are a private company and they can do whatever they want and all their users are already their hostages.
I really don't know, I guess the basic proposal will be something like Android: tapping the package, approving an alarming confirmation window about possible dangers, ...
But if we obtain an API, parallel stores could emerge with really good UX and maybe security addons (indipendent review, web of trust, etc.).
🎯✅
That is not correct imho. They dont like posts being “boosted”. They dont have issue with p2p payments perse.
Define boosted
Just build for the non-bootlickers consumers. If the products are good enough they'll dump their slave-phone.
Highly doubt. I’m one of those people I guess with a slave phone and I won’t be dumping it. Will buy an android though just for design work and testing android clients
I guess that's why this karnage can keeps going on. Better drop all connections with #Apple. Only then they feel it and may change. #nopainnogain
You can interpret in many ways but if they are honest they might see it as option to “sort” by zaps which you might do sooner or later.
I think a middle ground to this debacle could work like this.
Since ios supports in app browsers, a version of damus that works in the browser and supports zaps can be triggered from an action on the main ios damus app. Sure the ux as a result isn't the greatest, but it leverages the web and won't be blocked by apple. Then parts of the app could trigger the web functionality.
Don't know if this would fly though but I think damus having a web presence would help in not completely kneecapping the ios #nostr users.
Progressive web app. It uses web platform technologies. Such application can be installed without store.
tim cook being a fag²
Is it though? 😉
I don’t agreed with what you are saying..
You want to build something to who don’t cares with Nostr and Bitcoin circular economy and say you don’t care to build thing to who really cares.
That’s don’t make sense to me
View quoted note →
You mean to say that one has to build tools for those who don't care about the circular economy of Bitcoin and Nostr, instead of focusing on improving it for those who want it?
This statement doesn't make any sense to me.
I think the ones who need to wake up are not the ones who hold this opinion sincerely.
Devs do something.
View quoted note →I hope google moves in the same direction.
Not sure what you mean here
I’ll say what I mean, the way is building PWS when is no other choice, I’ll give Damus with the exemple and I have nothing against it and I like Damus very much, but when Damus was banned on China, a country who need Nostr so much, who cares about Chinese people who use Damus?
Wasn’t that a time to build a PWS Damus for people who need that?
It’s better to fit in with apple regulations or build more resilient software who can be accessed by iPhone users on China?
If people are givin time fitting in and don’t really build what is needed to people on oppressed countries, it seems to me that don’t fit with the Nostr mission.
Sorry for my English I can explain better if you want later
I agree,
A change of rules for web browsers would give insane ammunition to the anti trust lobby.
Nostr is about censorship resistance,
If you're on a platform that violates your ability to use Nostr freely, you are not only supporting that sort of top down control, you are saying it's okay.
iphone users are normalizing this practice, even bitcoiners & it's abhorrently weak.
Vote with your feet/wallet/usership, or cry harder.
Oh ok, I see what you mean.
Luckily there are other options for Chinese users in China unless they are doing some other type of firewall. I’m not really sure what options work for them right now.
I think Damus did the right thing at that time by staying the course. We have to be where people are - the App Store, the other social networks. There’s no need to drop iOS development since Damus is not just about zaps but nostr as a whole.
That’s not to say you couldn’t do both - keep improving iOS and build PWA.
My point was more in regards to why we can’t just ditch the App Store where so many people discover apps. For many startups it’s a life or death scenario if you don’t get into the App Store.
This reminds me of the exact situation Coldcard put us in.
Should we just eat the statism like a good girl with no gag reflex?,
Or should we vote with our feet/wallet?
People made decisions, but the truth is you have this tradeoff everywhere & around every corner.
I just hate that people are crying, you're a couple thousand users with little funds, you're not going to fight this without a law firm who wants to pick up your cause by sheer altruism.
I’m here for this!
LFG
@HoloKat !
Apple’s monopoly around the App Store needs to end. Most apps are trash and require in app purchases and still have ads!
If iOS is a majority in the states, then it should be forced to allow side loading.
I understand what you said, but what is more important?
Build to who wants to use and needs or build to be where are the most people?
Buying an iphone is voluntary.
They haven't a monopoly on smartphones.
We'll lose this case everytime.
I had an iPhone once. It was awful, the amount of restrictions I had to deal with on daily basis was so frustrating.
Yeah that shit is garbage.
You're using old specs & paying more.
Refresh rate of iphone screens & ram are always like 2-4yrs behind.
The point (and Apple knows this) is advertising and ease of access.
The average iPhone user isn't installing random PWAs. They're not sideloading apps. They're jumping to the app store, checking out the description/downloads/ratings, and tapping an install button.
Imagine if Twitter wasn't readily available in the app store. Do you think Twitter would see a noticeable decline in users?
To achieve noteworthy nostr adoption, hurdles such as these can't simply be ignored.
I understand that.
Let us be adults and download apps that aren’t in the App Store.
I can download any app on Mac so what exactly is their excuse except for being greedy and hindering innovation.
Just look at their segmented financial statements,
Computers are a dying biz for them, and require that level of flexibility to have any users at all.
Meanwhile their smartphone business is stable,
With their fasting growing biz being app store & apple services such as news, music, tv.
They're protecting their shareholders, not their fringe userbase who cares.
Yeah your probably correct.
Sadly 😪
Maybe someday it will change. 🫂
It will, but it'll be a force majeure
I don't care who Tim Cook fucks as long as it ain't his customers
I didn't say they don't know how.
I said they aren't.
Yeah i hear ya. Im just more optimistic (or delusional) that the “we” tomorrow will will be much larger than it is today, and over time this power dynamic can recalibrate
There you go.
Better products always replace inferior ones. I don't see why this case would be an exception
