I don't get the first point, the one about hyperinflation, how is Bitcoin useless in that scenario and why would I want to use the euro in case the dollar collapsed?

Why do Africans, and Latin America use U.S. Dollars? People use stable currencies with reliable, and predictable prices. The Euro being an important currency of modern economic trade would be a top contender for replacing the U.S. Dollar, and inflation shocks would be absorbed more easily as it would be dispersed more globally than locally like the U.S. For example, how Greece’s economy fell apart but countries like Germany essentially forced Austerity onto them, to keep global trade stable.

Also, does it say something about Bitcoin or does it actually reveal more about people that they would switch to the New Dollar? I ask this because if the limitation is on the part of the vast majority of people then there isn't much to be done on the technical side to improve adoption, we simply have to deal with the fact the millions would be ready to adopt the new version of "currency that just failed"

It’s happened plenty of times before. Most notably in Germany after a new government took over.

Yeah I know, so are we really being critical of Bitcoin (I know it has lots of problems, let's not start another Monero is better discussion), or are we stating that the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to adopt a new currency, unless imposed from the state?

I’ll say it’s the second one. 4:00 minutes in of the fourth clip explains pretty well. I think people prefer analog over digital. And even if we lived in a society where people like digital over analog, they would collateralized tools instead, like onegold, etc. Even if we ignore Monero, I think even conventional gold beats Bitcoin too from a SoV, and stability angle. More people know gold, most of our history was built on it. Bitcoin is only around for 17 years, or 0.0057% of human history, whereas gold has been around for 2,600 years, or about 1% of human history. Most people’s opsec model doesn’t include the state, and even if it did I think they have Swiss Bank Accounts, and other mechanisms (besides Monero) to help launder funds out of the country, etc. View quoted note →

So let's say the perfect analog money is invented, and I mean the perfect one! Do we have hopes of mass adoption in that case?

That's because most people use cash money primarily as a currency (trading token) and measure, not as a savings vehicle. As long as the value of the money stays relatively stable over the course of a couple of months, it works fine as a currency. You just have to spend it within those months. Most people and businesses scrape by, from month to month, so they just don't really give a shit about inflation unless it goes above 50% per annum or so.

I would say that if it were legally possible, and people were informed that many people would prefer Swiss Francs, Omani Rial, or Pounds over Dollars but the main reason The Dollar wins is because of liquidity, and force. Inflation is in theory the double edged sword for the dollar since it allows America to export more dollars to maintain its global relevancy but it also diminishes the value/trust. Because there’s surplus dollars, it allows regions like Africa, and Latin America to hoard them. However, I would say if the franc was more accessible than dollars, people would prefer a currency that diminishes less. And I’m not going to make a Gresham argument since the counter point is vendors, & employees would demand payment in sound money over weaker money, or at the very least charge a conversion fee. Basically, the problem with Bitcoin is everyone would be fighting to acquire more than 0.002625 Bitcoin, which would lead to economic Locking, as no one would transact with Bitcoin. Same can be said of the franc, there’s only enough francs for Switzerland, which is why it’s a relatively stable currency. Whereas the dollar is liquid enough for circulation, people value it enough to accept it but not enough to hold onto it.

That’s so crazy but anyways. Bitcoiners will do anything but actually make it a viable currency.

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bullish View quoted note →

They’re poor until they’re not.

Because they dare question the state. They Feds like Bitcoin because it’s completely traceable but if Bitcoin implemented privacy features like Z-cash, and Monero, the state would change the rhetoric pretty quickly.

LOL...you forgot the only reason we want bitcoin to win.

Greed

they can manage to be better with different fiat currency but they will still be inflated away, they will loose purchasing power to buy a house, groceries etc, it happens with usd, eur, all. Fiat system is designed to keep you poor.

Coming full circle. We can not have nice things when the people are retarded. But "the people are retarded". (OSHO)

Makes sense, but then the question remains: what is to be done?

No. People are retarded. Therefore not when it is not (en)forced on the people, which means it would need to serve the masters over the serfs. Yes. Maybe as an evolutionary process that plays out over centuries?

Wages are elastic, tho. Inflation mostly hurts people on fixed incomes and those people don't buy Bitcoin

Au contraire mon frère, its about trustlessness, no third party, Apolitical, and game theory. Countries dont trust each other, no one wants Yuan, USD, BRIKS as next world reserve settlement currency, gold is a pain to transfer, bitcoin is easy peasy. On a macro level there is huge incentive to use bitcoin. Look at Keynes Bancor, he was right, what comes next should be Apolitical. Same for CBDC stack, its Thiers' Law, the player who builds a digitally native currency on bitcoin will win out, eventually everyone will ditch the abstractions and just use bitcoin. Its the bitcoin dialectic, eventually everyone uses bitcoin.

Wages don't keep up with real inflation and even less against something like a house.

They don't have to keep up, just enough that people don't immediately notice.

Oh god. You sunk low. It's the opposite my friend!

Need and want are two different things

Is it though?

It requires a lot of trust. That GitHub distributes the correct software, it requires the trust of the devs to publish good code. Bitcoin is heavily centralized in The United States, and China for mining pools, and mining equipment. Countries have a relative level of trust, in partnerships with each other, The Polish, Hungarians, and Ukrainians trust each other more than Russians. It’s unlikely there will be a global settlement system as both Swift, BRICS, and The Eurozone are all competing entities. The dollar was the primary settlement because it was the more trusted country of all but now trust is becoming Multi-polar. Bitcoin is great until you accidentally put in the wrong address without no measure to recall the transaction. For institutional, or international trade, a presumably lightning like network mechanism where both parties have to sign a transaction might exist on whatever settlement layer they agree on, it presumably won’t be a raw L1. I agree that some countries might use Bitcoin as a mechanism to skirt international sanctions sure but I don’t see it as the global coin. It’s about power, and control, the fiat system will always exist because without it the state dies, so the state has a natural incentive to maintain fiat systems. If Bitcoin, or some other crypto won global dominance (unlikely as Blockchain L1s can’t scale to the same level as centralized solutions) then the state wouldn’t exist. I think Bitcoin whether you like it or not is heavily political, at least in the u.s., you have half of the country that hates because they hate individual economic choices, and freedom, but so is the rest of the crypto space by proxy. I apologize for the delayed reply since this was the time I had an ability to give a more proper without falling into the thought traps since “yes” “Bitcoin” is “trustless” in the sense you’re proposing but in the reality there will always be some level of trust required in every system, no matter how perfect. View quoted note →