The “POINT OF NO RETURN” according to Mises: "A state becomes virtually unreformable at the point where the majority of the population is financially or structurally dependent on the state (public employees, civil servants, recipients of subsidies or aid, beneficiaries of transfers, etc.). As soon as the group of those who clearly benefit from or are supported by the state is larger than the group that does not, the system blocks reforms, since the majority votes in its own interest to maintain or expand state benefits.”

Replies (15)

Der sog. "Sozialstaat" ist eine Falle. Bedenkt man, dass Millionen von Rentnern und Arbeitnehmern (wenn sie auch nur 5 bis 10 Jahre eingezahlt haben) von diesem Staat "abhängen", da sie faktisch keine andere Absicherung haben, dann sieht man wie schnell diese "Mehrheit der Stagnation" erreicht ist. Wir haben den point of no return längst erreicht. Bürgerkrieg, oder ein Verfassungskonvent (Art. 146 Grundgesetz)! Beides, wenn richtig gemacht, bedeutet "Alles auf Null!". Das eine mit sinnloser Gewalt, das letztere ohne. Es gibt immer eine in intelligente Lösung! "Point of no return" also nur in dem Sinne, dass dieser Staat nicht mehr reformierbar ist. Alles andere haben wir in der Hand.
Welche Intentionen hat Bismarck damals gehabt? Kurz gesagt: Bismarck handelte nicht nur aus Fürsorge. Die Sozialversicherungen waren auch ein Mittel, soziale Not zu lindern und zugleich die Arbeiterschaft politisch für den monarchischen Staat zu gewinnen. Soziale Unruhe und Revolution verhindern: Die Not der Industriearbeiterschaft und die wachsende Arbeiterbewegung galten als Gefahr für die bestehende Gesellschaftsordnung. Absicherung sollte die Lage entschärfen und den inneren Zusammenhalt des Reiches stärken.
I would disagree with the “votes in its own interest.” It doesn’t matter who votes, it only matters who counts the votes….nevertheless, the phenomenon Mieses describes still holds true. Since the society becomes unproductive.
For Americans that don't want us-- if we had an actual vote that didn't skew east to west, we would likely not be liberal. The west has no vote the way its set up, making us seem worse than we are on the whole.
pretty much every state at this point. and the key phrase is not un-reformeable. china was able to hollow out the communist core and create a lot of prosperity for it's people. the phrase is - on decaying path. reversable, likely by hollowing out the concept that is causing the dacay, but the return to the starting point is foreclosed. "reform" of "the west" is not guaranteed, the path where it doesn't happen is the default path, and the path of reform doesn't lead to the restoration of the system that created the problem
Yes. Harder sell, slower, but the best route by far. I have no control over it so I don't think deeply on the "how". If I was in Alberta I would stew more on it. All I know is I'd love castle / cottage laws and rights that don't start with "unless we make a good enough narrative".
I haven’t found a source where Mises said this verbatim, so it’s probably a paraphrase rather than a direct quotation. That doesn’t necessarily invalidate the underlying argument: structural dependence on the state can undermine a society’s ability to reform itself and may ultimately contribute to its collapse. I think this theory fits the EU far better than it does individual states. View quoted note →
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