Replies (133)
co-sign
100%
Kinda similar to the people who believe merchants have to accept Bitcoin or you cannot spend it. You can pay everywhere with Bitcoin, maybe not IN Bitcoin but certainly with Bitcoin. At the end of the day, it's all just money and foreign exchange.
Sounds like shitcoining to me
I would accept the monero shitcoin as long as I can convert it quickly into Bitcoin.
Bitcoin gets worse by the day, it's some fed bollocks that's full of cunts who are no worse than the cunts who caused 2008.
I like cash, cows and goats. At least they're fairly anonymous and well respected everywhere.
Being bitcoin-only or monero-only is grandstanding. being fiat-only is just stupid.
I approach this decision of what to prioritize in terms of payment with the question, is this exchange extractive. Fiat is obviously extractive and I avoid it aggressively. Bitcoiners using xmr is not as obviously extractive, I would argue it is but I'm still trying to figure it out.
Retards who talk like that saved their life savings with Coldcard.
Few understand that level of retardation.
Extractive how?
There's nothing shitty about monero
but you do you of course
Is there a way to atomic swap all shitcoins to sats yet?
Good call. Everyone can receive whatever he wants and accept the fact that different coins/project actually get the best out of Bitcoin, because it has to evolve and definitely can learn from some. 🚀
They one day I used Nosmeru for the first time to try out XMR zaps, I received zaps that were equivalent to two good weeks on Nostr 🥰
Lol you can atomic swap xmr for btc with Eigen Wallet.
But judging by the way you framed your question and your profile picture, unfortunately you seem to be a little retarded so be careful!
Make sure you keep your sats stored in the best hardware wallet on the market! It's perfect for retards who talk like you. Check it out!
What is nostremu?
It's about accepting bitcoin, not about not accepting something else.
The paradox is for bitcoin to succeed this needs to happen, because if no business survives on bitcoin-only we ngmi.
View quoted note →Disagree. It's every business's choice which currencies they decide to accept, but we do need #BitcoinOnly businesses if Bitcoin is every going to truly succeed. Produce the best products, and demand the best money.
Intentionally limiting your customer base is really horrible idea. That's akin to putting up a 'white customers only' sign on the door. Its 2026, time to move past closed-mindedness.
Yes, its their choice. And when the business fails, its also their fault.
Agreed there, but if businesses can not support themselves #BitcoinOnly we have a bigger problem IMO. But if they do fail it's almost certainly not because the chose one MoE over any other... unless they choose fiat. 😂 If you produce a superior product, you will have no problem finding willing consumers for your PoW.
Bitcoin can only win if we are able to 100% leave the fiat system behind. It needs trailblazers and fully committed users (both producers and consumers) to ever make that happen.
The business would serve customers and their business better to accept other forms then convert it to btc themselves, instead of intentionally limiting the customer base. What if some 80 yr grandma who who's computer knowledge is limited to the most basic wants to buy something. Does it really make sense to expect her to figure out btc? Or someone who just wants nothing to do with any cryptos? Would it not be more reasonable to accept another payments then convert after the transaction? I'm not saying this as someone opposed to btc, and I have bought things from sweetsats, so its not about me. But to limit customers intentionally is just dumb. There's really no other way to put it
There should be different pricing for what currencies force you to do.
If you never deal with XMR, like myself, then accepting it would probably increase the cost of my services to account for me having to go through a hoop to end in Bitcoin.
If they want to do that instead and reap the benefits of paying me in my unit of account, then great.
I wouldn't say no to any currency that I can reasonably trust it's ability to be changed into bitcoins.
If the reason for not accepting Monero is that you don't want to waste your time with all that, or find it difficult to flip into your unit of account then that's understandable.
Yet, I'd be remiss if you didn't charge more to make it worth your time - that's kinda lazy & dismissing the fact that people want to spend money they have with less friction.
Merchants should be willing to deal with more friction than consumers.
I find this attitude of yours Naruto putrid.
I said I'd accept shitcoins for services, I never said they weren't shitcoins or a waste of time.
It seems like you conflate everything you don't like about what people are doing with Bitcoins, rather than Bitcoin itself.
Bullocks.
Saving in XMR is brain dead.
Accepting XMR at a premium to what you'd accept Bitcoins is smart business so long as you feel confident in exchanging back to Bitcoins.
Accepting fiat requires KYC & fees.
Accepting XMR requires fees & maybe even time if you want to flip to Bitcoin.
If you want ultimate privacy you'd have a setup that looks identical whether using XMR or Bitcoins.
So if you're savings tool is smartly Bitcoins you're stuck with time and fees as the extractive point of XMR.
So gold bugs are grandstanding? Give me a break.
Now you're just lying but okay.
Time + fees.
Make sure you understand the process and charge more due to it.
I conflate all kinds of shit on a whim. Everyone need a hobby.
Tell me whats shitty about monero smart guy.
So Bitcoin is extractive too??
Because you have to pay fees to use it?
You don't consider it extractive to the xmr system?
I personally accept all sorts of shitcoin. I just would never hodl it. Monero and BTC only for that IMO.
I can definitely be nicer to you guys about your retarded ideology and its blatant destructive force on your own plebs, but when you insist on using the term "shitcoin" and when you justify this disgusting cult behavior, so much to the point that a highly respected corporation used it in THEIR MARKETING, then I don't feel as bad.
This guy is calling Monero a bag of dogshit in coded language. That is the language Coldcard spoke and marketed. This toxic ideology the maxi cult is obsessed with is bringing real harm to people. I'm trying to wake you up.
Learn from history or else you're doomed to repeat it.
Liquidity, ability to buy/sell it easily, perception that it is only used by criminals, monero holders are delusional pieces of shit that bash bitcoin and bitcoiners 😜
if public perception of something is what makes it a shitcoin, ok.
as we've told you repeatedly, we usually hold Bitcoin too.
We're just realistic that it is just for fiat NGU and not for freedom money.
You are an exception. Most of the monero trolls on here love to bash bitcoin and bitcoiners. Even you as one of the more reasonable monero guys like to respond to notes about bitcoin trying to shill monero
Bitcoin is also freedom money as much as you like to believe it is not. Just may not be as private as monero
I, for one, love to bash Bitcoin maxis, not Bitcoiners. I like Bitcoin. Bitcoin maxis are just retarded and net negative on both Bitcoin and society.
Some Bitcoin maxis are fine. The maxi culture is generally retarded though.
I mention monero when its relevant to the point being discussed.
Bitcoin has made bad design decisions and is on a bad trajectory. It will not survive a hostile regulatory environment and is unlikely to remain freedom money.
that's kinda the point. Bad business practice to limit your customer base when the business owner can easily convert to whatever he or she chooses.
You seem to know from experience.
Every one of these complaints was once(and sometime still is) levied at Bitcoin.
So to hell with the customer's time and cost of fees? The very customers that make a business exist? The more customers you have, the more it will make up for those few minutes and few cents it takes to convert
Yeah I get you, I'm not limiting anyone though, I'm just keeping things simple for myself. It's just what makes sense to me personally. We quit a very successful fiat business for the exact same reason, I don't *want* fiat. I don't want to sell my time or PoW for fiat. I don't want to live in or participate in the fiat world whatsoever. I am *intentionally* trying to remove myself and my family's economic activities from that system... so why would I accept fiat at all?
So how hard is it to buy more btc with the fiat you receive or convert from the other coins you receive? Its really just a dumb idea to intentionally limit your customers choices and your customer base.
Yeah this makes sense, but would add to the friction on my end. I can accept BTC seamlessly via BTCPayServer, it goes direct to my node– no intermediaries– and I don't have to worry about swapping or anything else afterwards. BTC is my unit of account, MoE, and SoV all in one. No need to look further; If customers have XMR, or fiat, or any other currency they wish to use (salt, seashells, cigarettes) and they wish to support my business– the best way for them to do so, is trade whatever they have, for Bitcoin– and #SpendSats.🫡
I do!
@SweetSats is #BitcoinOnly by choice. 🫡 We have made it work, and value what we have built and every single customer who chooses to support our PoW via spending sats.
no reason to not do that. many merchants have fiat price, and a discounted price for cryptos. And I'm sure most wouldn't mind paying a little bit extra to save them the time and money it costs to convert themselves. Its just better customer service to give the customers options, and will bring in more customers which ios good for the business.
If you say "I only accept gold for my goods and services" yes that is grandstanding
I'm more well versed on Monero, it's history, and tradeoffs than most people using Monero.
I've been around for a long time, and nothing I think or believe has been marketed to me.
"I'm trying to wake you up"
You sound like a Marxist.
You have chosen the blue pill! Have fun staying toxic.
😂 that's the spirit! HFST
If most users of xmr are just Bitcoiners swapping in and out to only make payments and not hodl or participate in running infrastructure, doesn't that lead to extraction of capital from xmr to btc?
I'm not sure if you're overestimating the power of the state or if I'm underestimating it. It's impossible to regulate Bitcoin to death, it's a global network.
I dont know....
If they just pass through, they're paying fees but I dont see how they end up taking anything away from the network?
I dont think I totally understand what the OP meant by "extractive".
I assumed the conversation would go to tail emission but it doesn't seem like anybody wants to make a case for that.
Fair point
Id suggest that a few zealots paying North Korean miners 20% and waiting 2 days for tx confirmation isn't successfully resisting regulatory capture.
Although it does technically "work".
For one, % hashrate of publicly traded corporations of the total network is increasing year over year and approaching >50%. It's trivial to regulate public corporations.
For two, improvements to Bitcoin as p2p money are fundamentally stalled out. Covenants are going nowhere anytime soon. Lightning isn't a proper long term solution.
It's good we have Monero in case those 2 lead to Bitcoin's failure. We all benefit from a stronger Monero too.
Monero is literally controlled by devs with no decentralized protocol to make decisions.
The protocol is: "GitHub community consensus"
Exactly 💯 correct.
This is leading to the same point one of us has a misunderstanding of who actually owns and operates the hash and what level of exposure they have to regulation. Did you know China banned mining and yet there is still hashrate operating in China?
Bold of you to propose the government's are idiots. We know they are but very bold statement.
Fuck fiat. World will never change if we keep using it. Bomb bomb bomb.
to assume publicly traded corporations (mining pools) will be "evil" to Bitcoin, who have huge infrastructure fixed investments in Bitcoin, and would attack it is not thinking through fundamentals of capitalism and free market incentives
what's "improper" about Lightning long term, assuming it continues to modestly mature and improve resiliency?
Nosmero is what it implies. A Nostr + Monero client.
Nosmero
Nostr client with Monero tipping.
Well yeah we're all retarded. Welcome to the club.
Your retarded too fker. Dont forget.
Although coins are fiat .. 😃😃
Never 😉
Wow a cash maxi. Did you know fiat cash is Largest fraud in human history? It enables fake clown world and infinite wars bombing little children. stop using that shit.
Your biggest retard here fker.
Your biggest retard here you fker.
R E T A R D
R E T A R D
Oh your active.. whats up retard? Hows your day going?
Who's against full chain membership proofs? 😂
Idk... These companies are beholden to the government. I don't assume they're going to be regulated to harm Bitcoin, but it's silly to 100% discount the possibility.
It's too difficult for regular people to use in a self custodial way. The abstractions that wallets like Muun and Phoenix use are not scalable long term (and neither is Lightning due to the number of channel openings that would be necessary to serve global scale). Ark is a better long term direction.
Having no baked in protocol mechanism to arrive at consensus is partly why holding Monero is braindead.
You mean like Bitcoin's signaling? I don't really think that's true. All that really matters is what software the decentralized community of Monero node operators, miners, and users want to run. If we don't like software updates, we can easily choose to use an older version. If we don't like a fork, we just won't run it. People have forked off in Monero's history too, like the bip110ers but way less loud. There's a clear consensus formed among almost everyone about what software to use.
Fantastic, how's urs?
It sucks. Im under the weather.
Sorry :(
Hey
@Marc I'm also sorry for saying you look retarded in your profile avatar that was mean of me. I think you look fine in it.
Ya. Never had such bad stomach bug my whole life... Also Naruto im sorry for calling you a fker. I stepped of on the wrong foot there.
That sucks feel better
It's OK. I've been pretty mean to people on here I deserved it 😘
Like if US corpos held 60% of the hashrate, and could stop Iran or North Korea from receiving Bitcoin, I can easily imagine the government tapping into that.
The current crop of free market capitalism isn't saving Samourai. Allowing people to transact freely is not actually in the cards already.
I agree self custodial Lightning Network is not easy at this stage but I do think it will improve
mass market will adopt regulated custodial, not because of LN tech but because of policy. that's already easy and the savvy can get decent fees
what happens if governments ban all forms of proof of stake and mining?
Samourai is a different topic. It was a software wallet with a centralized coinjoin service they facilitated
I don't 100% discount either but 100% is a bold scenario
Tornado Cash wasn't centralized and they still got clocked. So I think there is some writing on the wall there
In that scenario, the Bitcoin miners may get seized and the US gov has full control.
In Monero's case, the ASIC resistant PoW algo has an incentive structure that isn't as favorable to large corporations. So hopefully as hashrate increases over time (and hashrate follows price), it's better defended from that scenario. More miners spread out that are harder to shut down.
An honest merchant will make it as easy as possible to accept payment, including in currencies which might require a transaction to convert. That is just good business sense. They why most places accept ALL major credit cards. They don't just accept VISA (Costco being a notable exception, and for reason).
I didn't say 100%, I'm saying it's a relevant concern not to discount fully. It's why we all benefit from the secondary option of Monero, which theoretically could survive that scenario (assuming hashrate grows further). It's a good complementary option to Bitcoin.
I see it as sort of a fractional reserve system. To be fair, Cashu has the same potential. There are so e promising developments that might help, but it's too early to tell.
That's not my biggest problem with adding a Monero address to a nostr identity though.
I meant it's silly to discount the probably from 100% to 0%. Bad phrasing
Yeah I was aware of that. It's unclear to me if it's a significant amount or not.
Isn't it a question of pool decentralization tho? And not whether there's still physical hash in China?
I need a pool to submit my transaction to.
But maybe I dont understand the issue well enough.
Heres another thought experiment that might be more germane.
Suppose I'm a person in the over-regulated New Western Bloc and I want to make a purchase with Bitcoin. But because csam, terrorism etc Western exchanges now require proof of origin of funds.
So the merchant I want to exchange with cannot accept my self-custodied SATs. They need to sell for fiat to buy raw materials and cannot take the risk these funds will be rejected.
Anyway
It seems to me there's a number of different ways it could go, which essentially amounts to sovereign usage being throttled to death.
As opposed to Bitcoins amazingly effective "decentralized protocol to make decisions"
LMAO
Meetings are open man. Get involved.
I just want to make sure that everyone knows that you can only buy Oshi goods on my website with bitcoin.
I like bitcoin better than monero.
I hope that is clear. I don’t want to be confused for loving monero now.
Chatting via text is weird. Let’s just all hangout one day.
Exactly why this isnt fit for my savings.
Fiat ruins whole countries. A cancer upon society.
There are plenty of pools to choose from they just have low hash. If all the big pools start colluding there are already places to go. Plus necessity is the mother of invention, more pools would spin up. To dominate mining you have to operate the hash. Many many people operate the hash.
Xmr had 3 pools essentially, there are many more large pools to choose from with bitcoin.
If the use of exchanges is required then doesn't xmr have a much bigger problem? Only exchange I know of is kraken.
Even if using Bitcoin p2p is illegal, it still can't effectively be stopped.
Sounds fair
I am there already, zap me if you don’t trust me 😅
*Bitcoin stack grows*
-> "sounds like shitcoining to me" 🤔
Yes. Is this supposed to be a p0wn?
I feel like we just came back around to the beginning.
If I have to get my transaction mined an obscure pool somewhere and it takes hours or days,
And maybe I have to do some out of band payment
It's hard to not see that as "effectively stopped. "
Monero certainly needs more pools, but the ones we have are not regulated.
Since mining is not kyced or regulated, it doesn't have the same class of problems.
Hash will not stay at regulated pools.. blocks will continue to flow every 10 minutes
I will absolutely concede that a single jurisdiction cannot regulate Bitcoin to death.
I'm concerned about usability from *my own* perspective, because I'm not going to change jurisdictions to be able to use Bitcoin.
And if we look at it from that perspective, hashrate discussions are beside the point.
It is much more relevant whether or not the vendor I want to transact with can accept my Bitcoin.
If for regulatory reasons my vendors cannot accept my nonkyced self custodied sats (only cucked Bitcoin allowed) it isn't useful for me.
It's easy to see a future where the dominant jurisdiction prevents users escaping to bitcoin through friction and regulation, not through outright bans.
They stop it at the banking layer, not at the hash layer.
And if there's a competing BRICS type jurisdiction, they have the same concern of users escaping into a neutral money.
I don't understand why they would welcome Bitcoin and have positive Bitcoin regulation.
Isnt it in EVERY states interest to block the on / off ramps?
Let it exist as an economically insignificant, yet functioning, Network somewhere.
Just not here.
You think a business won't be able to legally accept Bitcoin as payment but somehow xmr will be okay?
No.
XMR is simply designed to still be useful in such a hostile environment.
If there isn't an xmr meetup culture there needs to be.
Why are you so intent on seeing everything through the lens of war?
Agree. We had loclamonero which was good for building a local p2p exchange network, but localmomero was a centralized system and they ended up shutting down due to pressure from the state.
You started this as a confrontation, so I presume you are remaining hostile
I think he means an IRL meetup for actual merchants
Yeah that would be amazing
Can they convert the steak to their preferred food choice?!
Obviously not a fungible form of value transfer, so it's an incongruent analogy.
Those aren't currencies, those are forms of payment.
I wouldn't accept a lightning payment if the amount was large enough.
You're inverting the meaning.
Blocked
Same. He’s annoying me too
It's not a reasonable form of payment.
And I don't take Tron... Its not that every merchant accepts everything... Its that every merchant makes a cost-benefit analysis and accepts those currencies and payment methods which they find are worthwhile.
No, it's a choice based on commerce viability
Childish
No, Monero hasn't had an undectable inflation bug.
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