Replies (148)
So helpful and useful. Thanks for you dedication and hard working π«‘
Wow .. absolutely amazing .. at least first two screens cuz I didn't create a new account yet .. will test it later ... So far .. spot on and to the point ..
While more clients and more features are good to have .. making these process bottle necks is super super important..
@daniele does it work for an account that is active ?
Thank you!
I absolutely agree, in fact this is not the end of the story, there is more interesting news for the coming weeks :)
Grazie! :)
Not yet. In the near future I will offer the ability to invalidate a bunker and create new ones, this will unlock access for everyone.
I'm looking forward to see that and use it π«‘
Ehm sorry, I was deploying the fix to the typo you just spotted!
Please try again now :)
Thanks for the support!
Thanks for the feedback!
I will certainly add Ditto as soon it supports NIP-46 with the multi-signature update.
π₯π₯π₯
daniele
Say hello to Nstart, Nostr's onbarding tool!
Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exclusive features:
- Easy local backup of your nsec or ncryptsec
- Email yourself your ncryptsec, as additional backup location
- Create a multi-signer bunker URL for Nostr Connect (more info below)
- Auto follow the contacts list of some old and trusted Nostr users
- Customize of contact suggestions, useful for onboarding friends & family
Try Nstart live at
https://start.njump.me or watch the video below to understand how it works.
A note about the multi-signer bunker. This is really cool stuff made by
@fiatjaf, that uses FROST to split your nsec in 3 (or more) and distribute each shard to an independent trusted remote signer. This will give you a bunker code that you can use to log in to many web, mobile and desktop apps without exposing your nsec. If you ever lose your bunker code, if the signers vanish from Earth, and it stops working, or if it gets stolen by a malware virus, you can use your nsec to create a new one and invalidate the old one.
More info and source code:
GitHub
GitHub - dtonon/nstart: Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exclusive features
Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exc...
Enjoy it and send back any feedback!
This is awesome
Incredibly simple setup process with great backups. Tested from mobile
New onboarding method to Nostr apps for sure
daniele
Say hello to Nstart, Nostr's onbarding tool!
Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exclusive features:
- Easy local backup of your nsec or ncryptsec
- Email yourself your ncryptsec, as additional backup location
- Create a multi-signer bunker URL for Nostr Connect (more info below)
- Auto follow the contacts list of some old and trusted Nostr users
- Customize of contact suggestions, useful for onboarding friends & family
Try Nstart live at
https://start.njump.me or watch the video below to understand how it works.
A note about the multi-signer bunker. This is really cool stuff made by
@fiatjaf, that uses FROST to split your nsec in 3 (or more) and distribute each shard to an independent trusted remote signer. This will give you a bunker code that you can use to log in to many web, mobile and desktop apps without exposing your nsec. If you ever lose your bunker code, if the signers vanish from Earth, and it stops working, or if it gets stolen by a malware virus, you can use your nsec to create a new one and invalidate the old one.
More info and source code:
GitHub
GitHub - dtonon/nstart: Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exclusive features
Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exc...
Enjoy it and send back any feedback!
I am preparing the multilingual version for the next release, then I will share all the information so those who want can help me with the translations.
β‘β‘β‘β‘β‘πππππ
Great β‘β‘β‘β‘
This would be amazing!
The translation process will only require updating a simple formatted file, so no experience with Svelte is required.
Well that's one way to guarantee a 100% Nostr abandon rate. π€¦
Wow, it`s very usefool!
This is very nice! I wonder if it could expand into relay selection...
How do you pick write relays? Either try to write from a new pubkey, or sign up to one.
How do you pick read relays? Make sure everybody can write to them (when tagging you).
How do you pick discovery relays? Make sure any pubkey can drop a 10002 relay list onto them. If you can't, probably nobody else can either.
How od you pick DM relays? ....
The system would need to test relays and only offer the ones that are suitable.
Most relays say things like "user unauthorized" or "you must auth"
Mike Dilger βοΈ
We need a nostr client that is just about managing your relays (and maybe your keys, bunker, delegation, profile). The "nostr account manager" or NAM.
No content.
But very good at helping you understand all the relays out there, how they are different and what they offer, with lots of hand-holding so grandma could use it. Also assisting in moving content from relay to relay when you migrate.
View quoted note →
Really nice work!
I see what you did there
What
Interesting idea, thanks!
I have the same fear, and in fact the current selection was created by choosing very different types of people. Also, this is a temporary solution, the ultimate goal is to offer a kind of βstarter packβ with specific topics, unfortunately we don't have accounts that post only specific content yet, so we have to wait a while for that.
Yes, this is the path:
daniele
I have the same fear, and in fact the current selection was created by choosing very different types of people. Also, this is a temporary solution, the ultimate goal is to offer a kind of βstarter packβ with specific topics, unfortunately we don't have accounts that post only specific content yet, so we have to wait a while for that.
View quoted note →
Nstart only sends the *encrypted* version of the private key via email.
The idea is actually just that: save your nsec in a safe place and use the revocable multi-signature bunker for everything else.
It's by
@NoGood βοΈ, I don't know the license, I think it's Creative Commons.
You just made onboarding 2 minutes and confusing AF.
Onboarding should be 1 second. Easy enough for a 4yr old to understand without any explainer. Learn via use. Not via reading.
Ncryptsec is simply a way to store your nsec (private key) encrypted. It's useful to limit ad personam and malware attacks. You can encrypt your current key using a client that support ncryptsec backup (e.g. Gossip or Amber) or using a command line tool like
GitHub
GitHub - fiatjaf/nak: a command line tool for doing all things nostr
a command line tool for doing all things nostr. Contribute to fiatjaf/nak development by creating an account on GitHub.
What client?
FROST bunker requires a little update: all bunker uris before had the user pubkey on them, so instead of calling get_public_key clients were just taking the pubkey from the uri; FROST bunker can't support that, it uses a different key for each user, not the actual user's key, so clients have to call the get_public_key method.
@Dikaios1517 it's working for me.
> I would present the remote signing bunker string as, ...
This is the plan!
> So if they DID collude, ...
In the future we will have a wider range of signers, and users will be able to choose their signer in an advanced wizard tab, so that risk is really minimized. A signer is a really simple and lightweight process, it can be hosted on a phone too, so maybe you can choose friend's or familiy's signers, too.
Btw frost bunker can't do nip04/nip44 encryption/decryption, right?
Exactly, it is an inherent limitation.
It does not support multi-signature bunker yet.
Very cool. Random question, is there no zapping on the wikistr client?
Fantastic, thanks!
Cool
I've complained about nostr onboarding many times. I think this is exactly what people need to start using Nostr. Well done!
Hey
@npub1pr4d...mkzp
Wondering if this could be integrated into nostr login on npub pro sites .
daniele
Say hello to Nstart, Nostr's onbarding tool!
Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exclusive features:
- Easy local backup of your nsec or ncryptsec
- Email yourself your ncryptsec, as additional backup location
- Create a multi-signer bunker URL for Nostr Connect (more info below)
- Auto follow the contacts list of some old and trusted Nostr users
- Customize of contact suggestions, useful for onboarding friends & family
Try Nstart live at
https://start.njump.me or watch the video below to understand how it works.
A note about the multi-signer bunker. This is really cool stuff made by
@fiatjaf, that uses FROST to split your nsec in 3 (or more) and distribute each shard to an independent trusted remote signer. This will give you a bunker code that you can use to log in to many web, mobile and desktop apps without exposing your nsec. If you ever lose your bunker code, if the signers vanish from Earth, and it stops working, or if it gets stolen by a malware virus, you can use your nsec to create a new one and invalidate the old one.
More info and source code:
GitHub
GitHub - dtonon/nstart: Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exclusive features
Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exc...
Enjoy it and send back any feedback!
Should you? π€
The relay talk will scare noobs
I've always thought the best way to start is to tell people that they're creating a self-sovereign identity that works on multiple clients. Don't talk about cryptography
That way the keypair talk makes sense ... Identity = keys
I just think you give people a nice overview and perspective if you tell them they're creating a #nostr identity that ports across the entire ecosystem
Tell it like it is ... #Nostr is an open source communication protocol - a set of technical rules - that allows users to post information on social client apps. Unlike traditional social media, there are no servers where users have accounts and where this information is stored. Instead, ... Also, there are no user account databases. User identities are created through a set of keys ...
When you think of it like this, you realize that #nostr is cutting edge π
relays are servers and store your data though
Okay, there are no centralized servers
Below the button you have it:
Would you like to know more about Nostr first? Read a quick introduction
that points to
njump - Jump on Board on Nostr, Start Now!
Yeah but that should be how you start, not hidden down below. You need to think high-level first, so readers know what they are getting into
Any suggestion?
1. What is Nostr
2. Why you should join Nostr
3. Benefits of Nostr
4. How Nostr is different from others
In fact this is not actually the start.
The main landing page is
njump - Jump on Board on Nostr, Start Now!
, as soon Nstart will be tested enough a big "Join Nostr" will appear there.
sorry for off-topic tangent... but which client do you use to format links like that?
I kinda like the computer, but a nostriche could do :aliendance:
I have to add, as a pathological account hoarder, i think this on-boarder is by far the best i've seen!
Links are not formatted, they are just plain URLs. Maybe is your client that formats them in a special way?
Weren't we talking about the image?
Thanks! Yes indeed, now looking at it in amethyst and it's just a plain URL. On nostrudel.ninjal it was a string of words linking to the URL. I can't remember what it spelled, but it made perfect sense in the sentence. π
Interesting! How do you see this? Show users a "JOIN" button somewhere so that this start.njump.me would open up, and when user is done ask them for the bunker url to connect to their keys?
Pushed an update that picks some element from your suggestion.
Did you see this or was that just incredible timing?!?! This is amazing. I needed it a day earlier lol π
armstrys
We need the intro to nostr to be a link to a key generation and starter pack of follows. How do I make this happen
View quoted note →
Yeah, universe timing sometimes is amazing!
Is auto-follow suggested users an option where you can unselect people? I'll share this but I don't think my friends would care about most of the suggested follows.
Sure, the follows suggestions are absolutely optional, the user have to actively select them.
But you can customize them to apply personalized follows, for example you can share:
https://start.njump.me?s=npub1cwhy4k8qd2guyqz8t45u4yzyp4k4fhnjn573ukh6e77mde2dgm9s2lujc5
And your friend will find your profile, pre-selected, in the final follows proposal.
You can also add more profiles, separating them with commas.
That's amazing
Actually this incident allowed me to find out that the deployment procedure was not optimal, on restart the server would timeout for 90 seconds and not respond. This has now been resolved. So thank you! π«
I'm stuck trying to email my ncryptsec to myself, send button isn't doing anything
Weird, it seems working for others people.
I'm going to DM you to try to debug the issue.
Que pensez vous de cette idΓ©e pour un nouveau ?
daniele
Say hello to Nstart, Nostr's onbarding tool!
Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exclusive features:
- Easy local backup of your nsec or ncryptsec
- Email yourself your ncryptsec, as additional backup location
- Create a multi-signer bunker URL for Nostr Connect (more info below)
- Auto follow the contacts list of some old and trusted Nostr users
- Customize of contact suggestions, useful for onboarding friends & family
Try Nstart live at
https://start.njump.me or watch the video below to understand how it works.
A note about the multi-signer bunker. This is really cool stuff made by
@fiatjaf, that uses FROST to split your nsec in 3 (or more) and distribute each shard to an independent trusted remote signer. This will give you a bunker code that you can use to log in to many web, mobile and desktop apps without exposing your nsec. If you ever lose your bunker code, if the signers vanish from Earth, and it stops working, or if it gets stolen by a malware virus, you can use your nsec to create a new one and invalidate the old one.
More info and source code:
GitHub
GitHub - dtonon/nstart: Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exclusive features
Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exc...
Enjoy it and send back any feedback!
Who choose people to follow ?
For a community like ours (french community) is it possible to have some active local people ?
Nstart suggests some old and trusted users, but in the end it copies their following list, so we choose the initial limited selection but actually these people create the final lists.
In the future I will probably add some sort of "starter packs", that will also include coated selections by countries or languages.
To achieve what you want now, as suggested you can add one more npubs (separated by commas).
You can also trick the system: create a fictional "French community" user and use it to follow a bunch of people, then add it to the suggestions!
Humm, I don't understand everything π€
How could we create a selection of french nprofile to onboard new come?
Do you have an example?
Just as them to the URL, separated by commas
https://start.njump.me?s=npub1,npub2,npub3
The "trick" is simply a new Nostr account with a descriptive name that follows some people.
Iβll check it out! Thank you !!!
π‘
Ok. Simple and evolutive !
If I prepare something like this could I have a special link with this profile to onboard Frenchy ?
What do you mean with "special link"?. You build the URL as explained and just share it directly.
Needs more mobile client options.
Just tried it,
Great job.
Do you mean at the end? They will be added as soon they support the multi-signature bunker.
Of course you can always use the nsec/ncryptsec with all clients.
Ok this part I need to add! I don't see it π«
/?s=npub1,npub2,npub3
Ok now it's clear π
Exactly :)
Yes at the end.
Why are clients being forced to support multi sig? Thought this was for new users, not privacy and security OGs?
Had a buddy totally new through it and he's not a fan.
He'd like to just be able to use nostr, not go through a bunch what he calls "unnecessary steps that make no sense to him".
π€·
We ended up just installing amethyst and minibits after.
These bunkers are not for OGs, they are first of all for casual users that need a way to use Nostr without accidentally burn their nsec.
At the same time they also protects from buggy software and malware.
So in this first phase I'm specifically promoting apps that support this connection method.
If your friend doesn't need these onboarding features he did very well to download his favorite client and create his account there.
Remember him to backup his nsec.
It doesn't matter why your doing it. It's counter productive for onboarding new people to nostr.
New users backing up(saving) their nsec(password in layman's terms) is enough.
If the common social media user doesn't know how to protect and save their passwords for social accounts, thats on them.
Running in with an extra step to play hero for their nsec(password) is not the way to get new users.
Please read on Wisdom of Crowds.
Basic nsec(password) backup and entry for log in and security is the median.
Options above this should be sold separately for those who find value in it.
Options below this and you wouldn't even have a nostr account.
π
@Le βΏunker un peu comme Γ§a
Thank you for sharing your point of view.
Really solid. The copy is a little lengthy. Hard to read. Might put off new comers.
I'd say "no identity documents or phone number required" instead of No KYC
will there be an option in the future for existing npubs to use this to create multisig keys π
just came to comments to ask this too π
How do I create multi sig bunker for current (this) nsec?
Yes, many people suggested this, I think I will replace the KYC part.
Yes, as soon as I add the management area to invalidate bunkers, existing npubs will also be able to create their own bunker.
daniele
Yes, as soon as I add the management area to invalidate bunkers, existing npubs will also be able to create their own bunker.
View quoted note →
A great resource i wish I found when I fell down the rabbit hole
Beautiful, clean and useful.
I think there are many steps. I would remove the option to save nsec locally and would keep only the option to save it on email.
API type thingy mapopper for apps to use so the onboarding is more uniform across all of them?? That's would be something...
A lot of people don't have an email.
Btw, I'm evaluating a "compressed" version for people who are in hurry.
Hosted over a decentralized system, on top of tor or something of course... You geniuses get in it. π«°π«°
A lot of people don't have E-mail? I don't know anyone that doesn't have an email, haha.
Maybe give the user an option to save locally or save in an email.
Check this out for onboarding
@DominaKatyLynxThank you π
Donβt mean to be that guy but just a heads up β¦.Thereβs a typo
onboarding is def getting better. i tried joining a while ago and gave up. but today, here i am.
Welcome
Imho we put too much into that identity stuff. It makes onboarding unnecessarily difficult.
Welcome!
Welcome!
is it simple enough for my grandma? I let it create a bunker, and in final step I opened Coracle., but no guidance how to login in Coracle ? (I expected it all down automagically).
I friend of mine tried to use Start and reported the window closed after downloading nsec file.
Right on! Is there a way to use the bunker for an existing nsec?
Not yet, it will be available as soon the management area will be released.
What do you mean?
Correct.
I have not yet added automatic login to the proposed applications at the end of the flow. When they all support this feature, I will update this part.
If you pick an app that currently support signup via Nstart, like
https://jumple.social, you will experience the optimized flow.
The closed window seems a browser issue, the wepapp cannot close itself.
perfect on-boarding
Thanks a lot! Looking forward!
What are the frost shards that promenade uses? Are they relays or dvm-like agents?
Ah found in the promenade description, never mind
One thing missing in the promenade description is that signers connect directly to the coordinator. In theory one could use a different relay as a proxy, but connecting directly is more private and more efficient and allows coordinators to know which signers are online.
Currently events shared between coordinator and signers are not encrypted in any way.
So currently signers aren't really "multi-party", right? And the plan is that eventually independent parties will run publicly known signers and promenade will somehow choose among them?
What do you mean? They are multi-party.
Promenade is two things: a coordinator and the signers. There are currently 5 signers I think, ran by different people. The client (nstart) will select 3 of these at random to do a 2of3 scheme (I think ideally it would be a 3of4 or maybe 3of3 if we get very reliable signers). The client can in theory select any signers they want and any coordinator they want, but currently it's all hardcoded because we don't have anyone else interested (do you want to run a signer and be added to list, by the way?) and I don't know what would be the UX of giving people options.
@daniele is working on a "manager" client companion to nstart that I think will give the user ways to configure these things. In the future (always in the future) we may have a more decentralized market of coordinators and signers and friend recommendations and stuff like that.
Oh, unrelated but also if you compromise your bunker currently you can delete it from the coordinator so the coordinator will just stop answering to requests for that specific bunker URL. Or you can redo the bunker setup process with the same signers and coordinator and your previous stuff will be deleted and overwritten. For this you need your main nsec.
Well I meant "hey are you running signers yourself for now?", but it's great to know those are different people - found the list on nstart source. Happy to run it too:
@npub1qaek...0kuu
The UX of giving people options could probably look like "Choose 3 of these 10 signers passing wot score threshold" with some defaults set. Signer owners should put their signature somewhere (nip89 event?) to enable that.
How do I ask coordinator to delete the bunker url?
How do you have a WoT threshold if you're just creating a Nostr account?
Let me know your signer pubkey once you have one running, make sure to pass the --accept-relay flag to the signer.
To delete you can just send a kind:5 to the kind:16430 that represents your bunker at the coordinator. You can also fetch it if you do a REQ with AUTH (using your main nsec).
The promenade repo also has an "accountcreator" tool for doing the setup flow in a CLI.
Thanks, will check!
App either has hard-coded pubkeys of trusted owners, or trusted "wot root" pubkeys, or may infer some context from the place where user is signing up. I.e. if user signs up on npub.pro site then we'll use site admin as wot root (we already reuse their relays for new profile, and suggest new user to follow them).
Even if wot roots or owners are hard-coded I guess it's better then hardcoded signer pubkeys bcs new good signers can be discovered/suggested without recompiling the app.
What's the meaning of that characters?
Nice answer π Anyway, if there should be accountable adaption, nostr needs different Auth. Nobody wants to share their secret with one or many service. I.e. a delegation signing key per service, created while onboarding, secured by passkey etc. Every other approach imho is distortion...
Bunkers have exactly this goal, they are revocable tokens used to sign events.
Thanks
@daniele, and sorry that I was to lazy to read the complete thread. Than bunkers are great π
#introduction
Interesting stuff.
Did you see this?
daniele
Say hello to Nstart, Nostr's onbarding tool!
Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exclusive features:
- Easy local backup of your nsec or ncryptsec
- Email yourself your ncryptsec, as additional backup location
- Create a multi-signer bunker URL for Nostr Connect (more info below)
- Auto follow the contacts list of some old and trusted Nostr users
- Customize of contact suggestions, useful for onboarding friends & family
Try Nstart live at
https://start.njump.me or watch the video below to understand how it works.
A note about the multi-signer bunker. This is really cool stuff made by
@fiatjaf, that uses FROST to split your nsec in 3 (or more) and distribute each shard to an independent trusted remote signer. This will give you a bunker code that you can use to log in to many web, mobile and desktop apps without exposing your nsec. If you ever lose your bunker code, if the signers vanish from Earth, and it stops working, or if it gets stolen by a malware virus, you can use your nsec to create a new one and invalidate the old one.
More info and source code:
GitHub
GitHub - dtonon/nstart: Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exclusive features
Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exc...
Enjoy it and send back any feedback!
nak decrypt
amazing. thank you !
Good job That Guy. It was fixed. π€
Who owns nstart?
It's a project built by me and
@fiatjafThanks for putting it together! For those that are worried about exposing their nsec, what are their options with nstart?
It offers a multi signature bunker.
Try to generate a keypair to see how it works, in the left column you will find some informations.
In a near future it will be available for already existent profiles.
