I'm at Bitcoin Amsterdam, but spent half the day finishing some Signal-style double ratchet messaging. Deployed an experimental version on https://iris.to. You can create chat invite links and give them to friends via QR or other messaging. The UI is still lacking and glitchy, but just had to demo at the conference. The chats cannot be publicly linked to either participant, and even if your main Nostr key is revealed, the content and existence of past messages stays hidden. Also published npm package nostr-double-ratchet 0.0.1: https://www.npmjs.com/package/nostr-double-ratchet It's not actually double ratchet yet, but the single ratchet already achieves forward and backward secrecy. The second ratchet would help secure the latest consecutive messages by same author, in case a message key for the most recent of their messages is compromised. That makes disappearing messages or manually deleted messages more secure. I guess we'll have to do it so we can say "Signal-level security". This is obviously not tested or audited yet, but probably it's not worse than normal Nostr DMs ๐Ÿ˜… You can take a look at the source code, but I'll write a better technical description later. It's using existing Nostr cryptography + some key derivation stuff. Chat invites use gift wrap -like arrangement addressed to the inviter's temporary session key.

Replies (25)

Youโ€™re already a legend. This just confirms it. It was good meeting you in Prague. I hope this project goes wellโ€ฆhumans need this!
WHAT! amazing
Sirius's avatar Sirius
I'm at Bitcoin Amsterdam, but spent half the day finishing some Signal-style double ratchet messaging. Deployed an experimental version on https://iris.to. You can create chat invite links and give them to friends via QR or other messaging. The UI is still lacking and glitchy, but just had to demo at the conference. The chats cannot be publicly linked to either participant, and even if your main Nostr key is revealed, the content and existence of past messages stays hidden. Also published npm package nostr-double-ratchet 0.0.1: https://www.npmjs.com/package/nostr-double-ratchet It's not actually double ratchet yet, but the single ratchet already achieves forward and backward secrecy. The second ratchet would help secure the latest consecutive messages by same author, in case a message key for the most recent of their messages is compromised. That makes disappearing messages or manually deleted messages more secure. I guess we'll have to do it so we can say "Signal-level security". This is obviously not tested or audited yet, but probably it's not worse than normal Nostr DMs ๐Ÿ˜… You can take a look at the source code, but I'll write a better technical description later. It's using existing Nostr cryptography + some key derivation stuff. Chat invites use gift wrap -like arrangement addressed to the inviter's temporary session key.
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iris ใงๆฎ็™บๆ€ง DM ใŒ้€ใ‚Œใ‚‹ใ‚ˆใ†ใซใชใ‚‹ใฃใฝใ„๐Ÿ‘€
Sirius's avatar Sirius
I'm at Bitcoin Amsterdam, but spent half the day finishing some Signal-style double ratchet messaging. Deployed an experimental version on https://iris.to. You can create chat invite links and give them to friends via QR or other messaging. The UI is still lacking and glitchy, but just had to demo at the conference. The chats cannot be publicly linked to either participant, and even if your main Nostr key is revealed, the content and existence of past messages stays hidden. Also published npm package nostr-double-ratchet 0.0.1: https://www.npmjs.com/package/nostr-double-ratchet It's not actually double ratchet yet, but the single ratchet already achieves forward and backward secrecy. The second ratchet would help secure the latest consecutive messages by same author, in case a message key for the most recent of their messages is compromised. That makes disappearing messages or manually deleted messages more secure. I guess we'll have to do it so we can say "Signal-level security". This is obviously not tested or audited yet, but probably it's not worse than normal Nostr DMs ๐Ÿ˜… You can take a look at the source code, but I'll write a better technical description later. It's using existing Nostr cryptography + some key derivation stuff. Chat invites use gift wrap -like arrangement addressed to the inviter's temporary session key.
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Completely different. Really cool to see a quickly working demo but it's using a cut down version of the Signal protocol which I abandoned early on because it makes private group conversations extremely hard / if not impossible.
Just today
Sirius's avatar Sirius
I'm at Bitcoin Amsterdam, but spent half the day finishing some Signal-style double ratchet messaging. Deployed an experimental version on https://iris.to. You can create chat invite links and give them to friends via QR or other messaging. The UI is still lacking and glitchy, but just had to demo at the conference. The chats cannot be publicly linked to either participant, and even if your main Nostr key is revealed, the content and existence of past messages stays hidden. Also published npm package nostr-double-ratchet 0.0.1: https://www.npmjs.com/package/nostr-double-ratchet It's not actually double ratchet yet, but the single ratchet already achieves forward and backward secrecy. The second ratchet would help secure the latest consecutive messages by same author, in case a message key for the most recent of their messages is compromised. That makes disappearing messages or manually deleted messages more secure. I guess we'll have to do it so we can say "Signal-level security". This is obviously not tested or audited yet, but probably it's not worse than normal Nostr DMs ๐Ÿ˜… You can take a look at the source code, but I'll write a better technical description later. It's using existing Nostr cryptography + some key derivation stuff. Chat invites use gift wrap -like arrangement addressed to the inviter's temporary session key.
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Los DMs privados van a llegar a Nostr soon! Tecnologรญa Signal sin nรบmero de telรฉfono
Sirius's avatar Sirius
I'm at Bitcoin Amsterdam, but spent half the day finishing some Signal-style double ratchet messaging. Deployed an experimental version on https://iris.to. You can create chat invite links and give them to friends via QR or other messaging. The UI is still lacking and glitchy, but just had to demo at the conference. The chats cannot be publicly linked to either participant, and even if your main Nostr key is revealed, the content and existence of past messages stays hidden. Also published npm package nostr-double-ratchet 0.0.1: https://www.npmjs.com/package/nostr-double-ratchet It's not actually double ratchet yet, but the single ratchet already achieves forward and backward secrecy. The second ratchet would help secure the latest consecutive messages by same author, in case a message key for the most recent of their messages is compromised. That makes disappearing messages or manually deleted messages more secure. I guess we'll have to do it so we can say "Signal-level security". This is obviously not tested or audited yet, but probably it's not worse than normal Nostr DMs ๐Ÿ˜… You can take a look at the source code, but I'll write a better technical description later. It's using existing Nostr cryptography + some key derivation stuff. Chat invites use gift wrap -like arrangement addressed to the inviter's temporary session key.
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๐Ÿ”Š๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ข๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ช Thanks
Sirius's avatar Sirius
I'm at Bitcoin Amsterdam, but spent half the day finishing some Signal-style double ratchet messaging. Deployed an experimental version on https://iris.to. You can create chat invite links and give them to friends via QR or other messaging. The UI is still lacking and glitchy, but just had to demo at the conference. The chats cannot be publicly linked to either participant, and even if your main Nostr key is revealed, the content and existence of past messages stays hidden. Also published npm package nostr-double-ratchet 0.0.1: https://www.npmjs.com/package/nostr-double-ratchet It's not actually double ratchet yet, but the single ratchet already achieves forward and backward secrecy. The second ratchet would help secure the latest consecutive messages by same author, in case a message key for the most recent of their messages is compromised. That makes disappearing messages or manually deleted messages more secure. I guess we'll have to do it so we can say "Signal-level security". This is obviously not tested or audited yet, but probably it's not worse than normal Nostr DMs ๐Ÿ˜… You can take a look at the source code, but I'll write a better technical description later. It's using existing Nostr cryptography + some key derivation stuff. Chat invites use gift wrap -like arrangement addressed to the inviter's temporary session key.
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great work, Martti! would this be backwards compatible with all existing clients implementations of DMs? what bout future compatibility with NIP-104 MLS DMs?
โ†‘